Boards›Player Behavior

Could we get a universal Riot official definition/example(s) for report system?

woodvsmurph··2 votes·1,550 views

They say (yeah... i'm not sure who they is either; you just see "they" in this context all over the boards and sometimes in-game chat) that Riot is overwhelmed with false reports and that it prevents them from getting to the real reports in a reasonable time or even mix up and miss some. So... perhaps a good definition and example (or two) of each would be useful to decrease the number of false/poor player reports.

For example... what is inting? Is it actually reportable? If it is... is it not reportable if someone actually farms minions or shoots opponents as they run down lane to a certain death w/o actually trying to kill anyone, or do the need to not farm or not attack opponents in order for it to be inting (if inting exists)?

Clarifying something like that would help MANY players (there's always going to be some exceptions) decrease false reports.

Another example and hot topic is "flaming" or "toxic". My personal feel on this can maybe best be explained through giving an example of a bad play followed by several different possible player responses and discussing what each one is... and if it's actually flame/toxic or not. So... let's use a classic boards type of example:

0/3/0 adc (probably tilted) decides to force a 1v1 vs the 3/0/0 full hp and sums enemy draven by draven's tower in order to get back in the game with a shutdown kill and prove he's the better adc and draven is trash. He ignores the fact that his teammate(s) have pinged mid is mia and that jg is headed bot from by dragon. He's determined to get the kill. He ends up dying 1v2... before the mia mid quite gets there to pick up an assist.

Before we get into player responses... let's note some key things:

  1. adc is FORCING the fight; he's not playing as safely as possible to enable team to catch him back up nor is his opponent forcing the fight onto him
  2. he's ignoring his team's warnings that he's about to end up in a potential 1v3
  3. he's fighting a fed enemy who... because it's still early game (laning phase) probably 100% guaranteed wins the 1v1 w/o even needing help. We could give adc benefit of doubt and assume draven really is THAT much worse than adc except... adc has 3 deaths while draven has 3 kills... so probably NOT the case.

Ok... potential responses by teammates followed by discussion of where each one falls in terms of toxic/flaming

teammate 1. Wtf you noob. Why you try to 1v1 a fed draven? Are you dumb?

teammate 2. Draven fed, adc is inting trash. GG ff @15, report adc.

teammate 3. Ok man... draven is hella fed and strong early. Pls stop fighting him, just sit back at your damn tower, and farm minions SAFELY. Do not fight him in lane or try to 1v1; you can't beat him right now, and we can't camp for you. Stop taking bad trades, just sit back and farm until you catch up.

Now... where does each fall in terms of flame/toxic?

teammate 1. definitely some rude remarks... however also a shred of honest advice(?)... don't try to 1v1 a fed draven as an adc. So not phrased the best, perhaps could be more helpful and less toxic, but also some truth to the remark.

teammate 2. pure flame/toxicity... no helpful information for the adc. Will also probably decrease player's motivation to listen to or work with their team due to hearing they are going to be reported as well as the flame/toxic comments.

teammate 3. I don't know how many times I've personally said stuff like this to my teammates (adc or otherwise) and had them tell me to "stfu" and "reported for toxicity". But do I deserve such a response? Well, if we examine what teammate 3 says... it offers helpful information (you can't 1v1 a fed draven EARLY as the adc that fed him) (if you sit back and farm by TOWER... you can catch up and enable your team to EVENTUALLY help you; no one gank is going to magically let you 1v1 or 2v2 draven every time based on your current situation) (your team hasn't forgotten you; we are dealing with something else right now and WILL get to helping you as soon as we can). Once again... sure it could be phrased a bit nicer (much like teammate 1), but it's definitely not on the level of being flame/toxic.

*this is my opinion (the 3 example responses and whether they are/aren't toxic/flame). You may think differently, and that's ok. I merely use this as an example of something Riot could do to better clarify what is/isn't acceptable to reduce false reporting in game. By clarifying what RIOT officially considers "griefing" or "afk" or any other report option. Because otherwise everyone has their own acceptable limits for each option. Some might think... this guy was afk for one fight... report. Others might be like... he was here HALF the match, so no big deal. Creating an OFFICIAL "limit" for what is bare minimum required for someone to fall into a category or just further clarifying via examples would potentially reduce the number of false reports that are apparently overwhelming Rioters.

10 Comments

Imperial Pandaa7 votes

I think inting is pretty clearly defined. It is when one person is intentionally assisting the enemy team. The reason there are so many false reports is because people tilt and report inting when it isn't (like teammate 2 in the next case). Yes there are some clear cut ways to see inting, but most people are getting smarter about it and making it harder. Inting is not something that can handle a blanket solution because too many innocent players would be punished.

Teammates 1 and 2 would both get pinged for toxicity. 2 would probably get more points towards his punishment than 1. 3 could have really simplified his statement, but if he didn't say anything worse during the rest of the game would probably be safe.

Creating an official limit is very risky. Because people will want to skirt the lines and claim "i didn't say x though so why punish?"

woodvsmurph1 votes

This is where I believe you are naive? We need an official explanation for the exact reason of the response you gave. To clarify... because there are massive chunks of the player base whose opinions differ from yours to greater or lesser extend. That we can be on wildly different pages about things like inting or toxicity is why an official definition would serve to clear the air in many cases... even if some players disagree with the official definition. At least they'd know and report accordingly... or not report.

Ex: you looked at teammate 3 and said... "if he didn't say anything worse... would probably be safe". Whereas, I look at teammate 3 and say... "he said nothing wrong and gave helpful advice". And someone else looks at teammate 1 and thinks... "that's just league... deal with it". Because they didn't ACTUALLY call anyone dumb or worse they'd feel it was ok.

And hence... the mass differences in reporting people. Everyone's opinion is different because: personality when the joined league (I joined long ago and got screamed at and ridiculed for very minor mistakes and that was the norm... no punishment) experience and game knowledge (do you realize that was a good/bad play? do you realize WHY? do you know other options you had?) mood (i'm on a win streak, small mistakes are like... whatever; i've lost the last 8 matches this week despite only playing poorly in 1 and you mess up a single thing regarding my role early on?... probably a different story for most people) etc.

Thus... more clear-cut examples or even definitions (that aren't vague) are in order if you ever want the situation to improve. Otherwise you'll always have a crowd crying "inting" when a 4/4/4 kog tries solo pushing vs a 10/2/5 zed with level and item lead and dies... and does it again... and dies ... and another crowd crying "bad game" or "unlucky". Does that make sense?

And in regards to some people's concerns... yeah a hardline definition probably isn't the best route... but an example like I gave and clarifying Riot's stance (is that inting or not for example or is it inting if done x number of times in a row but not if done fewer than x times) would be beneficial. And it would similarly hold POTENTIAL to reduce toxicity in game. Because if I'm in the position that even one time dying like that is inting, but Riot's example involves multiple occurrences of the same incident... then I can't get mad at my teammate unless I wanna be reported for toxicity since he just did it one time. Likewise, if I think no amount of solo deaths by a kog splitting vs a fed zed is unforgivable but riot says something like 4 (I just picked a number) is not ok... then I can't be mad at my teammates for getting after me (or my teammate) for dying on kog for the 4+ time 1v1 vs zed because kog wouldn't group.

Riot shouldn't pick exact numbers per-say... or trolls can stay within the limits, but still troll as much as possible; however, Riot should give a general description/example that makes defining such acts as toxic or intentional feeding reasonable. Thus... fewer unreasonable reports in either extreme thanks to giving everyone a reasonable window around which to work. "well... it's close to the example Riot gave, so it's worth them looking into" or "nah, I am not happy about it, but it's not bad enough to classify in the same category of example as Riot gave". This does presume some level of humanity within players to think it would help... but what can I say... I try to give people some credit until they prove themselves undeserving.

Chermorg5 votes

{quoted}

This is where I believe you are naive? We need an official explanation for the exact reason of the response you gave. To clarify... because there are massive chunks of the player base whose opinions differ from yours to greater or lesser extend. That we can be on wildly different pages about things like inting or toxicity is why an official definition would serve to clear the air in many cases... even if some players disagree with the official definition. At least they'd know and report accordingly... or not report.

In fact, the vast majority of the community thinks playing poorly is not inting, and inting is limited only to intentionally feeding the enemy kills.

Thus... more clear-cut examples or even definitions (that aren't vague) are in order if you ever want the situation to improve. Otherwise you'll always have a crowd crying "inting" when a 4/4/4 kog tries solo pushing vs a 10/2/5 zed with level and item lead and dies... and does it again... and dies ... and another crowd crying "bad game" or "unlucky". Does that make sense?

Have you looked at the Summoner's Code? That's pretty damn clear what's toxic. However, I don't think Riot needs to take it upon themselves to define the English Language. The phrase "intentional feeding" is very clear. It means intentionally dying to the enemy. Nothing else. It doesn't mean "doing something stupid" or "not listening to their team". It means intentionally dying to the enemy.

And in regards to some people's concerns... yeah a hardline definition probably isn't the best route... but an example like I gave and clarifying Riot's stance (is that inting or not for example or is it inting if done x number of times in a row but not if done fewer than x times) would be beneficial. And it would similarly hold POTENTIAL to reduce toxicity in game. Because if I'm in the position that even one time dying like that is inting, but Riot's example involves multiple occurrences of the same incident... then I can't get mad at my teammate unless I wanna be reported for toxicity since he just did it one time. Likewise, if I think no amount of solo deaths by a kog splitting vs a fed zed is unforgivable but riot says something like 4 (I just picked a number) is not ok... then I can't be mad at my teammates for getting after me (or my teammate) for dying on kog for the 4+ time 1v1 vs zed because kog wouldn't group.

Again, I don't think Riot needs to clarify that people are allowed to have bad games. Riot is not going to put any sort of hard line, and they're not going to use examples because each case is looked at individually making examples useless.

Riot shouldn't pick exact numbers per-say... or trolls can stay within the limits, but still troll as much as possible; however, Riot should give a general description/example that makes defining such acts as toxic or intentional feeding reasonable. Thus... fewer unreasonable reports in either extreme thanks to giving everyone a reasonable window around which to work. "well... it's close to the example Riot gave, so it's worth them looking into" or "nah, I am not happy about it, but it's not bad enough to classify in the same category of example as Riot gave". This does presume some level of humanity within players to think it would help... but what can I say... I try to give people some credit until they prove themselves undeserving.

Riot is not going to make non-intentional feeding punishable by making a limit, of any kind, whatever. There's no reason that false reports are an issue - the system will just throw them out. If a player thinks a behavior is in violation, they should report it and it will be reviewed. That doesn't mean that bad players will ever get punished.

Bijeesny2 votes

{quoted}

In fact, the vast majority of the community thinks playing poorly is not inting, and inting is limited only to intentionally feeding the enemy kills.

But the problem is that sometimes it's extremely hard to make a difference between poor play and trolling.

For example, your ADC goes bot and just splitpush as far as he can while not warding areas without vision. Enemy players collapse on him, even tho your teammates warned your adc through pings. And she does that several times in a row, while not responding to either pings or chat.

Bad player with shitty map awareness or just a troll?

My point is, you don't need to build 6x Tears and play Nunu with Ghost/ Cleanse, you can simply play it out like a bad play, or just play the whole match normally and start showing troll-ish behaviour only for couple of crucial moments of the game. And that's confusing other players, they aren't sure what's the difference between playing poorly and trolling. Toxicity is easely detectable, but for trolling... Riot could try to make some sort of a guide for better identifiying troll behaviour. Maybeee ask on Reddit/ Boards about trolling methods they know about? It would help Riot to get a little closer to their community. It would show they care about player's experience in the game (they care, i guess, but some players like me don't really believe in that). This is just my suggestion tho :/

Chermorg3 votes

{quoted}

But the problem is that sometimes it's extremely hard to make a difference between poor play and trolling.

For example, your ADC goes bot and just splitpush as far as he can while not warding areas without vision. Enemy players collapse on him, even tho your teammates warned your adc through pings. And she does that several times in a row, while not responding to either pings or chat.

Bad player with shitty map awareness or just a troll?

What you described is, 9/10 times, a bad player. But many players think it's the other way around - 9/10 times a troll. Riot will not punish players unless it is obvious and beyond reasonable doubt.

My point is, you don't need to build 6x Tears and play Nunu with Ghost/ Cleanse, you can simply play it out like a bad play, or just play the whole match normally and start showing troll-ish behaviour only for couple of crucial moments of the game. And that's confusing other players, they aren't sure what's the difference between playing poorly and trolling. Toxicity is easely detectable, but for trolling... Riot could try to make some sort of a guide for better identifiying troll behaviour. Maybeee ask on Reddit/ Boards about trolling methods they know about? It would help Riot to get a little closer to their community. It would show they care about player's experience in the game (they care, i guess, but some players like me don't really believe in that). This is just my suggestion tho :/

The issue with asking players what's trolling is players are shit at determining it. Players will call anything they don't like trolling, even if it's legitimate play. Riot will not punish unless it is beyond reasonable doubt to be trolling.

woodvsmurph1 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdJqgQ3GT2k Watch this match from last season. Ignore the sub-par game by the toplane renekton; I was having a really poor game that day. Focus on the zoe... her hp bar and the mini map. For a WHILE that game, she was inting... not just having a bad game. Not the whole game, but for awhile. How do I tell the difference - aside from the fact that she told us that if kha didn't gank mid (he came top because zoe was tilted and top was an easier/safer gank with more reward for it - the tower) - here's clues she's doing more than just having a bad game.

Multiple times, she has the wave shoved to fizz's tower during laning, but stays when she's literally 1 basic ability from dead in order to harass a much healthier fizz. Sure if this were bronze... I might expect that. But in gold or higher silver... you don't make that mistake more than once and still call it a mistake. After one time of "forgetting" and making the mistake of staying when that low, you don't repeat it because you knew better and kinda just forgot. But zoe does this several times... indicating increasing level of tilt. In higher elo... this would already be classified as inting, but in gold? We aren't at inting level yet... by most players standards.

What else? Zoe has a ton of range with her q - especially when buffed by her ult. So there's no reason for zoe to play right in fizz's face if he's fed and can basically 1-shot her. Yet this zoe continues to do exactly that... play right up in fizz's face so he can q or e onto her whenever he wants and his ult is basically guaranteed. If you watch her movements closely, you also notice that in the early game she attempts juking maneuvers to try to make it hard for fizz to land his e's and ults. But later, she makes fewer and fewer of these as she becomes more tilted. This again combined with continuing to play so agro makes it near impossible for her team to help her or for her to recover 1v1 w/o help... even though she is perfectly capable of doing so. Thus... more evidence we are straying from the realm of "bad game" towards the realm of "intentional feeding".

Let's identify some basic stuff now which everyone who's climbed out of bronze and low silver has to learn. First, there's the ability to use your trinket. Yeah... that free vision tool everyone can get. Zoe keeps pushing her lane and refused to ward. Not only can she not 1v1 fizz anymore, but also multiple times she KNOWS that enemy jg is near mid too. Now anyone being logical at THIS elo who can't 1v1 their lane opponent and knows the enemy jg is also nearby would back off. Especially when she's got the wave shoved in where fizz can't freeze it on her. There is literally no point to her staying any longer, yet she does and she gives both of them free gold when she dies... again. It's around this point most honest players would be thinking of reporting someone for inting. I've been on zoe's end of things in a situation like that a few times or been there despite winning the 1v1 but then be camped and end up looking like zoe in the bad 1v2 situations she puts herself in and I've been flamed and reported by normal players... not just salty or toxic ones. So it's not just me that thinks like this as you might otherwise believe. Secondly... resistances. While resistances in zoe's build aren't optimal, they aren't out of the question as viable. And if a fed enemy can 1-shot you, then most players logically get some resistances and/or hp to make it more difficult to do that IN ADDITION to playing safer. But zoe does neither. So we are now arguably in the realm of inting... if only at the edge of it's border with "bad game" realm.

Compare this with 17:30ish blitz's death bot. Could they have gotten better vision? Yes. Could they have noticed fizz was mia? Yes, but it's gold... people aren't great at that so I don't blame them since nobody called mia. In fact... considering how badly off guard they were caught, blitz made a great play. He sacrificed himself and used his e and pathing to ensure fizz couldn't get both him AND his adc. That is what I'd call a GOOD death all things considered.

This is followed by a 3 man gank (jg, adc, and me/top) onto the enemy bot lane pushing our tower. We grab 2 kills and all live somehow. I could stay bot and help kalista get tower... but I tp top. Not out of selfishness to get minions, but because with the size of the wave yasuo has, he can easily get top outer and half of top inner before we kill bot outer tower. And by the time I tp top to save inner tower, top is basically dead to "slight breeze", yasuo can rotate and my team could potentially end up 4v5 or 2v4 elsewhere while I push out lane. I don't want that happening, so I tp knowing kalista is pretty safe with enemy bot duo dead for awhile. Now that's what I call macro... and people act like gold players can't know anything about macro lol.

Just a bit later... the wave is much smaller top, I've already used tp, and going top right then won't save any towers (outer is dead if yas commits, inner won't take near-fatal damage). So I stay to help my team trade outer towers instead. My bot duo is already in base... so I ask them to rotate, then I make my way to try to pincer the yas and mia fizz. While we don't accomplish this... we do protect the top inner tower from any serious damage... as I'd predicted we were capable of when I committed to bot outer tower after drag.

Around 23 min in, we see zoe splitpushing top. It's around this point it should be clear to all that she is 100% inting if you weren't already convinced. She'd just died 1v4 shoving mid and now she's in a long side lane without vision knowing there's enemies missing from bot and mid and that she can't 1v1 any of them who are mia. Not yasuo.. not fizz... not kayn. If you can't 1v1 people splitpushing, you don't splitpush. You might rotate over to clear a wave by your tower to STALL an ENEMY splitpusher... but you don't shove lane blindly and splitpush yourself. Doing so IS inviting the enemy to come and kill you for free gold. She could easily have listened to her teammates instead of flaming kha for not camping mid and grouped up. Stay by me, she can still get the farm and fizz dies for diving her. It helps team better defend our towers, gives her the cs she needs, and costs team nothing. Now I'd love to be substituting myself for zoe and splitting, but I know I need to be defending teammates from fizz, so I don't split even though I could 1v1 anyone they sent at me. So again... we see zoe making a bad decision OVER AND OVER AGAIN where she clearly knows better. All because the game didn't go exactly like she wanted it to... she's throwing away our chances of coming back and her team's attempts to help her because she's mad and tilted. That is going beyond tilted into the realm of inting. If she plays around the team and works with us... then it's a bad game. THAT would be recognizing... "you know, I messed up guys... I fed fizz, but I'm gonna work with everyone to make a comeback". And that I would not report. Because that would be having a bad/tilted game. But when you have a game like that and refuse to give your team the best possible chance of making a comeback by being selfish and repeating your same dumb mistakes which you clearly know are bad and will never work? That's no longer in the realm of "bad game".

Compare that to 25 min in where my bot lane dies stupidly 2v4 mid. They KNOW they are at least in a 2v3 situation w/o me there and SHOULD have backed off to our inner tower mid. But they overstayed. If they kept doing this... I'd call that inting. But they don't KEEP DOING it. And therefore, we can write it off as a mistake. You starting to see the difference?

Compare that to me engaging 1v4 to defend our inhib tower mid. That was calculated. First off... I know they can't 1-shot me. Second off, they're running out of minions so they can't tower dive. Thirdly, I waited until kha was almost there so that I will get a 2v4 vs a bunch of squishies. Around 28 min in... you see my team overstay mid and die 3v4 for no reason. They've overstayed before w/o me and should know better at this point. I'd consider calling it inting (at higher elo it definitely would be), but I understand tilt and the majority (but less than 90%) of players wouldn't call that inting in gold or silver. I then int myself... overstaying 1v2 and then 1v3 where I can no longer escape because I'm getting frustrated with the throws my team is making and zoe's refusal to group plus rude remarks mostly directed at kha and me. So I die for nothing because I stayed when there was nothing to gain for staying and everything to lose. That's inting and again... were it higher elo... something people would not excuse even considering the circumstances. Even when they are the person doing it... "I just inted" would be a phrase you'd hear from the renekton there if he were a streamer. And that's a one time thing after a bunch of good TEAM plays by the renekton... not a repeat thing like the zoe (who hasn't made any good team plays nor effort to even ATTEMPT them).

Eventually, you finally see zoe stop being selfish and petty and group. And wow... look how easily we can win when she stops inting and team doesn't fight w/o me. My death under mid inhib tower wasn't me being stupid either. I did it to pull focus away from my team so they don't have to deal with kayn, fizz, and yasuo all at same time. This allows them to kill 1, then win the ensuing 4v4. I probably should have played that better (definitely a low elo play), but overall still helping my team ever if it looks bad. So there you have it... a "low elo" breakdown of inting vs bad game. See the difference? See how it CAN be spotted?

ModThe Djinn5 votes

These are not "official" definitions, but they are rather simple.

Inting is actively and intentionally attempting to ruin a game. This is not the same as not listening to your team, not the same as making poor decisions, not the same as trying to fight a superior opponent, and not the same as building something unusual -- the definition is solely in the intent behind the actions.

Flaming is insulting your teammates. Toxic Behavior is flaming, as well as using certain language or being excessively negative/condescending to other players.

Wtf you noob. Why you try to 1v1 a fed draven? Are you dumb? Draven fed, adc is inting trash. GG ff @15, report adc.

Both problematic.

Ok man... draven is hella fed and strong early. Pls stop fighting him, just sit back at your damn tower, and farm minions SAFELY. Do not fight him in lane or try to 1v1; you can't beat him right now, and we can't camp for you. Stop taking bad trades, just sit back and farm until you catch up.

Not problematic, although perhaps a big aggressive. Would recommend not behaving like this for an ENTIRE game, but one or two instances like this in a game won't cause a problem.

woodvsmurph1 votes

So... calling all yasuo mains crybabies when they asked for a new passive after i.e. rework is... ok? or not ok? Cuz personally, I'd say it's not ok... but from feedback I've gotten on the boards recently... it's perfectly acceptable and actually just me being very nice forcing them to think critically. I'd personally still argue that's toxic and not beneficial for discussions though. But I guess boards personnel know better and it would be ok. Still I think I'll be fine for not calling them crybabies even if it's acceptable.

As for your response to "teammate 3"... we can assume that the teammate has said stuff to the adc after the 1st or 2nd death. Probably much lighter hearted and encouraging such as... "hang in there man, you can do this" or "just play safe for now and I'll try to tp when I can". And thus "aggression" scales up with repetition of "mistakes"/"bad play"/"unlucky play".

As for your definition of inting... this again is insufficient because different players view this in different ways. I'm bronze and I die to a gank 6 sec after being pinged and jg walking over my river ward? I'm forgiven... because it's bronze. I go to master tier and do that? I'd report myself for inting... because everyone knows better. Seriously... watch a streamer; including someone almost always hyper-positive like rto and he says that stuff of himself. There's nothing wrong with calling out a mistake... that's how we LEARN. There is something wrong with recognizing something as a mistake, refusing to own up to it, and repeating it over and over and over again. At that point it is intentional. At that point... I am sabotaging the game for my team.

As I've explained to all of you 100x over... I know the difference between inting and not. I am forgiving far more than most people for a bad mistake or two... because we've all been there. But again... if what you are doing isn't working and it's not working BECAUSE of what you are doing... it's time to try something else. Refusing to do so is... actively ruining the game for your team even if you try to pass it off as something else.

I had a boards overseer accuse me of being a selfish pile of shit who only plays for myself and my kda... yes a boards overseer. I'm more of a mind to think many of these people have no clue what they are talking about in regards to good/bad play and that THEY in fact should not be making judgement calls or in position of authority on the boards with responses like that. First off.. it's definitely not a nice comment. Second off, it's completely false. Thirdly, even if it were true (which it isn't), by your definition of inting... it would be perfectly pardonable because I am merely viewing the game through a different lense and trying the best I know how... to win.

People are over-reactive to any criticism... when what they need to do is think about WHAT was said and WHY. Was the person being an asshole... or saying some true stuff in a way that can help someone improve? Doing the latter w/o being nasty about it isn't toxic or flaming... it is trying to help your teammate(s) for this game and beyond. For an example from one of my games... we were losing, our adc kog had fed pretty hard in lane despite it being a fair 2v2, so he really needed farm. I was trying to carry my disorganized team who only looked to steal each other's cs to make a comeback. I'd initiated or counter-gank peeled for team a few times to give us EVEN fights when we should have lost. I made sure to facecheck and handhold for my teamates when we went to ward our jg and the baron. Now to this particular instance... 3 enemies were seen (before they cleared the ward) in our top jg by red buff/baron. A giant wave was pushing in top. I wanted the farm... kog wanted the farm... our other 3 teammates were mid or bot jg farming. Kog started to run out to meet the wave to beat me to it and take most of the cs. I pinged him back 3x, and he finally listened... perhaps because of the fact my predictions with minimal vision had been correct 90% of the time and I'd helped the team even at my own expense several times. And sure enough... like I thought... those 3 enemies hopped out of the brush by krugs when they realized kog had waited safely by top tower with me to babysit him while he farmed the wave in a safe position. I didn't tell kog not to go out there so I could be selfish and get the farm to complete my 4th desperately needed item as the sole frontline for our team. I didn't do it to be a controlling asshole. I did it because I knew it would likely mean his death. And I sat by to ensure it wouldn't mean his death. If I hadn't been critical (but instead been just an asshole/insulting with no USEFUL info in what I said; or some "nice" guy who just says nothing), kog and my other teammates would never have learned to look for traps like the one he almost walked into, they wouldn't have learned how to come back from behind by making better rotations than their opponents and STALLING, and they wouldn't have improved or won that game.

When I was first learning my favorite champion... I maxed abilities in "the wrong" order. It hurt to hear it from someone that I was doing stuff stupidly... and maybe they could have been nicer when telling me... but what matters more? Learning from a mistake and improving or crying and getting "revenge" on someone because they said something in not the nicest way possible? I'd say learning. Refusing to learn from criticism kills growth. The fool wants to hear his praises... the wise man wants to hear where he still fails.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC_UVGr1zvs Here... I get a lead and look to do various things with it at different points in the game. First off... share first tower gold with my jg to get him ahead. Second... playing agro to pull eve's attention top and protect my teammates from early game ganks. Third translate this lead to other lanes by shoving top in and rotating. This particular game I tried swapping with the talon for awhile because he was getting camped pretty hard mid. It wasn't working for a long time because irelia is just much stronger in a long lane even if she's behind. I didn't know... but I do now. Talon appreciated the fact I was trying to help him by swapping, let me know that it wasn't working... and we agreed to swap back. But when the whole enemy team was focusing on defending mid, he has time to free farm top. That helps our whole team even if it seems like he's not helping... because he's getting stronger and pressuring top tower while we are strong enough to not lose stuff mid for it. At about 17:45 in the video... I want to go top and ping midlane to back off because it's not safe to be there and there's a giant wave building top that will die to tower and bounce off if I don't get there soon. But he overstays mid and I turn to try to help him escape. I cant save him because I'm too far away, but lee sees me coming and gets off an amazing ult to get a reply kill. We then use our lead to grab some more kills and a tower. After getting mid inner, I have a ton of gold I need to spend and should really base... but trist and lee want to keep pushing mid. I know that's a bad idea and suggest herald instead... this time refusing to go back to mid in the hopes they will come. Because otherwise we end up sieging mid inhib tower 4v5 with irelia flanking us, us being down in effective (spent) gold, and having already used most of our summoners and ults while the 5 enemies have not. You can see the results... trist realizes in time what I saw coming and gets out. Lee... not so much. After spending about 3k gold (told you I was down in effective gold) on sterak's I group. Because my team is all very squishy and so while I could split here... I know my team isn't capable of pushing 4v4 safely w/o danger of being engaged on and picked off before I can group. Does that look like a selfish kda player? Tanking tower agro longer to protect my teammates. Being the one to tank enemy cc and looking to peel for teammates (like trist when she's getting chased by eve in mid) over chasing another kill for myself (like diving the kai'sa instead of saving trist)? But what do I know compared to the almighty boards overseers... if they say I"m a selfish kda player who never helps my team... then I must be.

By another token... if my jg complains I don't back him up when he invades or is getting invaded, should I not explain why I don't back him up? To open the argument I'll point to the streamers and pro's again. They've explained how missing a minion wave or two early can mean falling behind a level. Which in turn might mean losing kill pressure on an opponent when you are playing an early game snowball champ or... your opponent gaining massive kill pressure on you. And the higher you climb... the more this is punishable. Thus, your jungler must look at the minion waves of his teammates in nearby lanes and decide... do my laners have lane priority (you hear about this in bot lane especially in lcs all the time now). If they don't, he must either risk 1v2 or 1v3 (if bot) or back off and concede the camp. It's not his laner's fault if he risks and dies or has to flash to escape. But many don't know this, so explaining it to them is a way to help your jungler even if they don't like hearing that their death is THEIR fault. Obviously you don't just say... "your fault man" or "you messed up"... you tell them why.

You see... people should admit when they make a mistake. They should learn and grow from it when possible. That's how we learn and improve. Our teachers didn't politely stay quiet or tell us good job when we messed up learning the alphabet or our multiplication tables. They let us know we'd made a mistake. Not to put us down or humiliate us, but to help us become better. And we didn't yell at them or report them to the principal. I believe the same SHOULD be said about league. Explaining to people how something is a mistake should result in us trying to improve and not make that mistake again and again. And that we should appreciate people who try to help us improve... not cry "toxic, reported" just because we don't like being called out or told what's good/bad.

Kei1433 votes

Have you checked out their faq about reporting other players?

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player

Arammus2 votes

haha. no! riot does nit give out ANY INFORMATION about ANY of their automatic stuff because they are paranoid that the information will be abused to "avoid the system".

best example is level bots.

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