Boards›Player Behavior

On 'thin skins' and 'SJWs' and other tired, toxic player talking points

Karunamon·4/13/2018, 6:25:28 PM·85 votes·18,805 views

This is a rant, and the tone of the writing reflects that.

Some recent posts here and on reddit have me putting to words some blow-by-blow takedowns of the usual "ITS JUST BANTER" "LEEG COMMUNITY IS JUST THIN SKINNED AMIRITE?" bullshit that everyone reading this board has seen a thousand times.

It's acerbic. It's based in frustration and not a small amount of anger. It probably comes off as holier-than-thou. There's lots of swearing (ESRB rated M for "Mad") It's probably tl;dr and contains spelling and grammar errors.

It's also true.

Turn back now if this bothers you.

>People getting their feelings hurt on the internet

>mild criticisms from strangers

>I mean I know Epidermolysis bullosa is rare, but I swear most league players now days seem to be developing this tragic condition.

You seem to be operating under the misconception that the summoner's code you so haughtily crap on is about creating a "safe space" or for protecting kids or the thin skinned or about SJWism, to name one of many canards that keep coming up and that you used a few of.

That is not what those rules are for.

Do you know why, during a boxing match, the fighters touch gloves? Why one steps away when the other is knocked down?

Do you know why, on the LCS stage, the opposing team coaches shake hands, even though they should be bitter rivals?

Do you know why it's considered good manners to say "glhf" at the start of the game and "gg" at the end?

It's called sportsmanship. Sportsmanship ensures that both the game and the players are respected. Even if you don't respect the other player, even if they don't respect you, you respect the game, and so you show a sportsmanlike attitude anyways.

That means no smack talking your own team when they're playing badly (as if that has EVER helped anyone win)

That means no smack talking a troll (because what are they going to do, troll less? have you ever met a troll?).

And that certainly means not trying to rules-lawyer your way around either of these things by evading chat filters, spamming smart pings, or any of the other myriad ways people have devised to avoid doing the one thing they're supposed to do.

Sportsmanship serves to delineate further the inside of the game from the outside of the game. Inside the game, you leave all that shit behind and compete on neutral ground. Part of you stays behind when you're ingame, the parts of you that have bills to pay and chores to do and eyes and lungs. You are (or at least, should be) fully engaged. On your champion, on the map, on what's going on right in front of you. You should be in a mental state called "flow".

It means that in the spirit of RESPECTING THE GAME, you mute troublemakers rather than descend to their level and roll in the pig shit with them. It means you report them after the game so they can be either corrected (which statistically works) or failing that, be encouraged to go play somewhere else.

Grace in victory, humility in defeat. Respect for the game. And if you don't respect the game, then why the _fuck _ are you here?

Riot makes these rules because people want to play games with positive, sportsmanlike atmospheres, and the behavior that you're so keen on permitting completely trashes that atmosphere. This isn't 4chan. This isn't Call of Duty. This isn't Halo. I'm sure a certain subset of people would be overjoyed to learn that they can call other people homophobic slurs, or talk about how they did your mom last night, or advocate that people kill themselves (protip: most normal people find this disgusting), or spam information that everybody already knows in an attempt to get under the skin OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HELPING TO WIN THE GODDAMN GAME!

The standards for behavior here are significantly higher than many other games because that's what the community wants. That's what attracts the most people. Atmosphere. Not just the visual and sound design, but the community is a large part of that. League is a game of the highest highs (when your team just works) and a game of the lowest lows (Faker, Worlds stage 2017. Nuff said). There are plenty of highs and lows in regular gameplay without your keyboard-dribbling flamebait adding more fuel to the fire that we could mostly put out if you'd just do something that's eaiser than what you're already doing.

This is League of Legends. And if you have a problem with any word of this, I suggest you go play somewhere else too. DOTA2's LPQ is just down the road. Spare us all the rationalizations and the whyfores and the wheretos of why you had to smack talk instead of just typing /mute. You did it because you lack self-control (what, you're going to argue that someone who can't control what buttons they press on a keyboard has a great deal of it?), and because you didn't think you'd be punished for not reading what you thought was just another bit of pre-game legalese.

Guess what? You can and are expected to (most people do, after all), and you were, and you really should have. (Seriously. It's not a freakin' legal document, it's a statement of philosophy. It's as a great, encouraging read. )

Show some god damn dignity, and maybe some respect for the game while you'e at it.

Be better.

141 Comments

Nrader4/13/2018, 6:36:07 PM17 votes

You do realize trash talking is in the competitive nature as well right? Frustration when you're playing or participating in a hyper competitive sport/game should be expected.

That's why the Korean scene is more successful, they embrace the competitive nature and the toxicity that comes with it because it makes better players

TeknoTel4/13/2018, 10:31:28 PM10 votes

Thats some really poor arguments. Firstly boxing is not a team match but a single person sport, a dual. Usually toxicity is directed at weak team mates, not ur opponents. If anything the chat between opponents is banter which both sides can have a lugh with or be offended over if they wish. In my experience cross team banter is more fun then anything else. In boxing I have seen boxers spit in each others faces also and start brawls before and after fights, so please think of a better analogy.

In a serious team sport if one member of team is at a far lower skill level then everyone else, I can assure you stern words will be said to that player. If that player cries to the coach over it he will get told to grow up or get out, most likely in a real life situation the person will just deal with it like a adult. If anything league is nothing like real sports, in league you can get banned for criticizing someones poor play, in reality this happens all the time and is used constructively.

The truth is whether you like it or now, if you are that easily offended by someones words in a computer game you have the option to be the bigger person, ignore them and even mute them. Options you don't get in any other aspect of life. So please stop with the comparisons they are totally void and incomparable.

The inconvenient truth is most of the 'being offended' and reporting is done out of spite. Very rarely do I see one person spamming chat with offensive remarks to a person who is not responding. The majority of the time its back and forth. Most of the time the reports are like a final insult, if you get a chat ban on the person its like you won and defeated enemy. That will show you for criticism me or trying to talk shit to me.

In my opinion, which is valid, reporting over chat is pathetic. If you really don't like something someone is saying, mute them and move on. Someone inting or playing a troll role or afking base, then yes they are ruining the game for everyone, they deserve to be reported and banned,

If someone is using violent or racial insults to you, then yes ok they deserve to be banned.

If someone criticizes your play and you don't like it, then ignore and block. To me reporting in that situation is just as petty as the person chatting shit. You know whats refreshing? Someone actually saying you know what, I am bronze 3, I am really shit at this game so when people criticise me, I might just listen and learn something. I used to play with lots of toxic people, even though it wasn't that fun they definitely made me improve. Some of them were a lot better then me and what they were saying was right, even if I didnt like the tone of it. It pushed me to look things up and improve. I am no pro, but I am much better then I would jave been thanks to them.

Its a game, be a man. Remember real life is nothing like this, you cant ban people who criticism you there, may as well get used to it. I know this isn't the community line but I don't really care, the world never used to be anything like this. This approach does nothing but feed kids the wrong idea about how life works.

Barcid4/13/2018, 9:42:07 PM10 votes

You conveniently gloss over the fact that the summoner's code also specifies that going something completely unconventional or picking the Zed mid while your team's all AD is also against the summoner's code.

To quote the very first section of the code itself:

"Being a good team player begins at champion select. Be open minded when considering the needs of your team. If you're the last one to pick, try to fill a niche in your team that hasn't already been filled. If everyone's picked and something stands out as a deficiency in your team composition, try asking for another player to fill the gap, or change roles to embrace that responsibility yourself. Remember, that by taking on a role you don't normally play, you'll learn more about unfamiliar champions and increase your own skill level."

Verbatim.

I like how you're using the code to really point out one issue when there's plenty of other issues that the code covers that I'm sure you'd be willing to just sweep under the rug.

Don't cherry pick. If you're going to preach the code, use all of it.

SEKAI4/13/2018, 6:37:21 PM7 votes

https://pastormichaeldenver.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/calvinandhobbs.png

EDIT: picture stops working again, it seems. Urgh.

Sugarlicious4/13/2018, 9:21:58 PM6 votes

I expect this to get a lot of downvotes but I don't care, somebody has to show you and those like you the other point of view.

First, this isn't a boxing match. You are not alone against another player and depending on only your skills, you are playing in a team against a team. And if your teammate is causing your team to lose, in any sport, that teammate would be replaced, fired, or similar. No coach would keep a bad player on the team, and no player wants to play with a bad teammate. But in LoL, you can't do that, if there is a bad player, you're stuck with them. So don't compare this to sports, sports have rules that protect both bad and good players, LoL doesn't do anything to protect good players from playing with the bad ones.

Second, you all like to say over and over how telling somebody they are bad can only make them play worse, but not one of you ever mentions how a bad player makes good players feel. You think I'm okay when I see you feeding mid? You think it motivates me to play better just so I can try to carry since you're making this difficult? No, it makes me want to give up because why should I work twice as hard for you who can't even keep their lane at least neutral by not dying 5 times in 10 minutes.

Third, it might not be easy to play good, but it is easy to not play bad. When you notice that you can't win, stay under your turret, farm, hell, go afk if you need to. Literally the only thing you should not do is die. But no, most bad players have to keep dying because idk why, probably something to do with their ego.

Fourth, what is it that you actually want? You want good players to stay silent while you lose your lane and cause the entire team to lose? And what punishment do you get for that, or do you think you deserve none because who cares about the fact that you made the game terrible for 4 other people? We can't report you for feeding because it's not intentional, you didn't go afk, you're not flaming, so what happens? Nothing, you get to play another game and be as bad as you want to be all over again. So excuse me for saying this, but a couple of hurtful words from people whose game you just ruined is the least you deserve. Play against bots until you learn your champ, play Aram so you can see how other champs function, play with friends, watch youtube, read guides, there are so many safer options...

Fifth, you are on the Internet. if I added you on FB now and started calling you names, would you go cry to your mom? Would you call the police and tell them there is somebody telling you that you suck? Well, maybe you would but that's not how the world works. You chose to come online and enter the digital world where people don't have to respect you,share your opinion, like you, or do anything you want them to. It's a simple fact that with the anonymity of our characters, there comes a lot less automatic respect. And if you cannot handle that, then you're simply not mature enough for the Internet. There's so much talk on the news about this "offended" generation that can't handle anything today, and well, at least you know you're not alone. Even in this game, yes, you are the majority.

Finally, none of this matters because at the end of the day, you can still report players for flaming you while I can't report you for playing badly. So, cheers. [slayer-jinx-catface]

comedybingbongs4/13/2018, 7:07:54 PM5 votes

How do you know thats what the community wants? NA has the most intense filter system by far and Cowsep, QTpie, and Scarra were all laughing about how ridiculous it is on the last episode of Beyond The Rift.

League has always been regarded as the most popular game to play and watch, as well as the most toxic. So I don't see how you can argue there is any relationship between toxicity and playrate

haaaaaaalp4/14/2018, 5:46:43 PM3 votes

{quoted}

The standards for behavior here are significantly higher than many other games because that's what the community wants. That's what attracts the most people. Atmosphere.

So here is the problem. I don't think there is any shred of evidence that what you claim is in any way representative of what the community wants. Your vision is one that most of the community may not be bothered by but to suggest that it is the ideal of what the entire community wants is where you kill your own argument.

The atmosphere that attracted the most people and shot mobas from nothing more than a side game on warcraft 3 to one of the most successful genras in the world did not ban anyone for anything besides hacking and chargebacks.

Surefire234/13/2018, 9:19:20 PM2 votes

Also please consider to what player base you are addressing these comments to. I'll grant there is a large player base who simply want to play norms and enjoy the game, never even playing enough ranked matches to finish placements during any season and pretty much having no knowledge or experience of what ranked play is actually like. Then there is the player base that lives almost exclusively in ranked, where LP gain/loss is the entire reason for playing the game. Im sure it is not hard to imagine how these two player bases would want different things from the game and expect a different sort of atmosphere while playing.

Yaśuo Main4/13/2018, 10:52:06 PM2 votes

what is the point of this post again,

i mean I'm not exactly sure what event caused this rant. was there some sort of post orrrr

Pandemic Punch4/15/2018, 10:10:14 PM2 votes

Everyone wants nice behavior with good intent. However, that culture must develop or come to fruition naturally and genuinely. When you have a collective trying to ENFORCE culture, you end up creating a culture of people who want to portray the opposite in the name of sincerity.

Jerks will always exist no matter what but if you tell them what not to say (what you view as most offensive), then they will gravitate to it when they get mad and WANT to offend you. You essentially tell them what your weak spots are. That is exactly what SJW's do and that is why you will continue to hear the term in this weak community. SJW's try to enforce culture, belief systems, and what your opinions should be on subjects that offend them.

Surefire234/13/2018, 9:00:22 PM1 votes

{quoted}

This is a rant, and the tone of the writing reflects that.

Some recent posts here and on reddit have me putting to words some blow-by-blow takedowns of the usual "ITS JUST BANTER" "LEEG COMMUNITY IS JUST THIN SKINNED AMIRITE?" bullshit that everyone reading this board has seen a thousand times.

It's acerbic. It's based in frustration and not a small amount of anger. It probably comes off as holier-than-thou. There's lots of swearing (ESRB rated M for "Mad") It's probably tl;dr and contains spelling and grammar errors.

It's also true.

Turn back now if this bothers you.

>People getting their feelings hurt on the internet

>mild criticisms from strangers

>I mean I know Epidermolysis bullosa is rare, but I swear most league players now days seem to be developing this tragic condition.

You seem to be operating under the misconception that the summoner's code you so haughtily crap on is about creating a "safe space" or for protecting kids or the thin skinned or about SJWism, to name one of many canards that keep coming up and that you used a few of.

That is not what those rules are for.

Do you know why, during a boxing match, the fighters touch gloves? Why one steps away when the other is knocked down?

Do you know why, on the LCS stage, the opposing team coaches shake hands, even though they should be bitter rivals?

Do you know why it's considered good manners to say "glhf" at the start of the game and "gg" at the end?

It's called sportsmanship. Sportsmanship ensures that both the game and the players are respected. Even if you don't respect the other player, even if they don't respect you, you respect the game, and so you show a sportsmanlike attitude anyways.

That means no smack talking your own team when they're playing badly (as if that has EVER helped anyone win)

That means no smack talking a troll (because what are they going to do, troll less? have you ever met a troll?).

And that certainly means not trying to rules-lawyer your way around either of these things by evading chat filters, spamming smart pings, or any of the other myriad ways people have devised to avoid doing the one thing they're supposed to do.

Sportsmanship serves to delineate further the inside of the game from the outside of the game. Inside the game, you leave all that shit behind and compete on neutral ground. Part of you stays behind when you're ingame, the parts of you that have bills to pay and chores to do and eyes and lungs. You are (or at least, should be) fully engaged. On your champion, on the map, on what's going on right in front of you. You should be in a mental state called "flow".

It means that in the spirit of RESPECTING THE GAME, you mute troublemakers rather than descend to their level and roll in the pig shit with them. It means you report them after the game so they can be either corrected (which statistically works) or failing that, be encouraged to go play somewhere else.

Grace in victory, humility in defeat. Respect for the game. And if you don't respect the game, then why the _fuck _ are you here?

Riot makes these rules because people want to play games with positive, sportsmanlike atmospheres, and the behavior that you're so keen on permitting completely trashes that atmosphere. This isn't 4chan. This isn't Call of Duty. This isn't Halo. I'm sure a certain subset of people would be overjoyed to learn that they can call other people homophobic slurs, or talk about how they did your mom last night, or advocate that people kill themselves (protip: most normal people find this disgusting), or spam information that everybody already knows in an attempt to get under the skin OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HELPING TO WIN THE GODDAMN GAME!

The standards for behavior here are significantly higher than many other games because that's what the community wants. That's what attracts the most people. Atmosphere. Not just the visual and sound design, but the community is a large part of that. League is a game of the highest highs (when your team just works) and a game of the lowest lows (Faker, Worlds stage 2017. Nuff said). There are plenty of highs and lows in regular gameplay without your keyboard-dribbling flamebait adding more fuel to the fire that we could mostly put out if you'd just do something that's eaiser than what you're already doing.

This is League of Legends. And if you have a problem with any word of this, I suggest you go play somewhere else too. DOTA2's LPQ is just down the road. Spare us all the rationalizations and the whyfores and the wheretos of why you had to smack talk instead of just typing /mute. You did it because you lack self-control (what, you're going to argue that someone who can't control what buttons they press on a keyboard has a great deal of it?), and because you didn't think you'd be punished for not reading what you thought was just another bit of pre-game legalese.

Guess what? You can and are expected to (most people do, after all), and you were, and you really should have. (Seriously. It's not a freakin' legal document, it's a statement of philosophy. It's as a great, encouraging read. )

Show some god damn dignity, and maybe some respect for the game while you'e at it.

Be better.

Assume much, know little. It is okay young grasshopper, things change when you have played league of legends for almost a decade. Experience brings knowledge and wisdom which can be gained or comprehended by no other means.