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On 'thin skins' and 'SJWs' and other tired, toxic player talking points

Karunamon··85 votes·18,805 views

This is a rant, and the tone of the writing reflects that.

Some recent posts here and on reddit have me putting to words some blow-by-blow takedowns of the usual "ITS JUST BANTER" "LEEG COMMUNITY IS JUST THIN SKINNED AMIRITE?" bullshit that everyone reading this board has seen a thousand times.

It's acerbic. It's based in frustration and not a small amount of anger. It probably comes off as holier-than-thou. There's lots of swearing (ESRB rated M for "Mad") It's probably tl;dr and contains spelling and grammar errors.

It's also true.

Turn back now if this bothers you.

>People getting their feelings hurt on the internet

>mild criticisms from strangers

>I mean I know Epidermolysis bullosa is rare, but I swear most league players now days seem to be developing this tragic condition.

You seem to be operating under the misconception that the summoner's code you so haughtily crap on is about creating a "safe space" or for protecting kids or the thin skinned or about SJWism, to name one of many canards that keep coming up and that you used a few of.

That is not what those rules are for.

Do you know why, during a boxing match, the fighters touch gloves? Why one steps away when the other is knocked down?

Do you know why, on the LCS stage, the opposing team coaches shake hands, even though they should be bitter rivals?

Do you know why it's considered good manners to say "glhf" at the start of the game and "gg" at the end?

It's called sportsmanship. Sportsmanship ensures that both the game and the players are respected. Even if you don't respect the other player, even if they don't respect you, you respect the game, and so you show a sportsmanlike attitude anyways.

That means no smack talking your own team when they're playing badly (as if that has EVER helped anyone win)

That means no smack talking a troll (because what are they going to do, troll less? have you ever met a troll?).

And that certainly means not trying to rules-lawyer your way around either of these things by evading chat filters, spamming smart pings, or any of the other myriad ways people have devised to avoid doing the one thing they're supposed to do.

Sportsmanship serves to delineate further the inside of the game from the outside of the game. Inside the game, you leave all that shit behind and compete on neutral ground. Part of you stays behind when you're ingame, the parts of you that have bills to pay and chores to do and eyes and lungs. You are (or at least, should be) fully engaged. On your champion, on the map, on what's going on right in front of you. You should be in a mental state called "flow".

It means that in the spirit of RESPECTING THE GAME, you mute troublemakers rather than descend to their level and roll in the pig shit with them. It means you report them after the game so they can be either corrected (which statistically works) or failing that, be encouraged to go play somewhere else.

Grace in victory, humility in defeat. Respect for the game. And if you don't respect the game, then why the _fuck _ are you here?

Riot makes these rules because people want to play games with positive, sportsmanlike atmospheres, and the behavior that you're so keen on permitting completely trashes that atmosphere. This isn't 4chan. This isn't Call of Duty. This isn't Halo. I'm sure a certain subset of people would be overjoyed to learn that they can call other people homophobic slurs, or talk about how they did your mom last night, or advocate that people kill themselves (protip: most normal people find this disgusting), or spam information that everybody already knows in an attempt to get under the skin OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HELPING TO WIN THE GODDAMN GAME!

The standards for behavior here are significantly higher than many other games because that's what the community wants. That's what attracts the most people. Atmosphere. Not just the visual and sound design, but the community is a large part of that. League is a game of the highest highs (when your team just works) and a game of the lowest lows (Faker, Worlds stage 2017. Nuff said). There are plenty of highs and lows in regular gameplay without your keyboard-dribbling flamebait adding more fuel to the fire that we could mostly put out if you'd just do something that's eaiser than what you're already doing.

This is League of Legends. And if you have a problem with any word of this, I suggest you go play somewhere else too. DOTA2's LPQ is just down the road. Spare us all the rationalizations and the whyfores and the wheretos of why you had to smack talk instead of just typing /mute. You did it because you lack self-control (what, you're going to argue that someone who can't control what buttons they press on a keyboard has a great deal of it?), and because you didn't think you'd be punished for not reading what you thought was just another bit of pre-game legalese.

Guess what? You can and are expected to (most people do, after all), and you were, and you really should have. (Seriously. It's not a freakin' legal document, it's a statement of philosophy. It's as a great, encouraging read. )

Show some god damn dignity, and maybe some respect for the game while you'e at it.

Be better.

141 Comments

Nrader17 votes

You do realize trash talking is in the competitive nature as well right? Frustration when you're playing or participating in a hyper competitive sport/game should be expected.

That's why the Korean scene is more successful, they embrace the competitive nature and the toxicity that comes with it because it makes better players

SEKAI27 votes

{quoted}

You do realize trash talking is in the competitive nature as well right? Frustration when you're playing or participating in a hyper competitive sport/game should be expected.

That's why the Korean scene is more successful, they embrace the competitive nature and the toxicity that comes with it because it makes better players

Korean scene is more successful because of larger investment and commitment, not because they trashtalk more.

Karunamon10 votes

Did you even read? No, I don't think you did.

Of course frustration is to be expected. But you are also expected to be mature enough to vent that frustration in a way that doesn't make your team more likely to lose (as toxic chat has been proven to do).

And I call massive and complete shenanigans on "trash talk" the reason for Asia's general domination of all things video game. If shittalking were all it took, Tyler1, Shaclone, and some other infamous names would be sitting with LCS titles in hand.

What Korea does is neither here nor there.

Nrader4 votes

{quoted}

Did you even read? No, I don't think you did.

Of course frustration is to be expected. But you are also expected to be mature enough to vent that frustration in a way that doesn't make your team more likely to lose (as toxic chat has been proven to do).

And I call massive and complete shenanigans on "trash talk" the reason for Asia's general domination of all things video game. If shittalking were all it took, Tyler1, Shaclone, and some other infamous names would be sitting with LCS titles in hand.

What Korea does is neither here nor there.

I love the straw man arguments I get from this board, it should be expected though from thin skinned players.

Obviously trash talking isn't the ONLY reason they're more successful, but they realize that toxicity and shit talking is a part of the competitive package.

I do also love the aggressive tone I get from you so called "perfect angels who would never be toxic" It's almost like when you're passionate about something the opposing side can be frustrating.

NocturnalSheild5 votes

Im agressive and toxic on the forums because theres no ToS telling me i cant be.

You do know different things can have differing levels of restrictions right?

Nrader2 votes

{quoted}

Im agressive and toxic on the forums because theres no ToS telling me i cant be.

You do know different things can have differing levels of restrictions right?

but isnt that immoral :(((((

NocturnalSheild5 votes

What? Who cares about morals. Literally no one* who wants toxicity gone from games does it because of morals.

They do it because after a long day at work dealing with adult children they dont want to have to deal with real children.

*is muh opinion

Sp33d Zer04 votes

"Always be respectful to players, community members, moderators, and Rioters. Harassment and insults will not be tolerated (“just playing” is NOT a catch-all excuse)."

Granted, you never signed a ToS for this, but you can be banned from the forums.

epic dude26115 votes

nOTE: point four is the most important one

1: those who are mature enough and level headed enough to ignore toxicity instead of reading fodder to the fire are more resilient than those who give in and join the ever growing pool of (I don't know how I should put this but..) quite frankly pathetic individuals who take to natural instinct and flame etc. Instead of doing the rational and more beneficial action which would either be to try and convince said person from doing whatever they are doing, or ignoring them and continuing, yes, league of legends is supposed to be a place where you can escape from the real world, but that does not give any individual, no matter the scenario to try and dehumanize or try to reduce another player.

2: JUST BECAUSE LEAGUE ISNT NECCESSARILY REAL LIFE DOESNT MEAN THAT YOU SHOULD LACK BASIC HUMAN DIGNITY

3: trash talking etc. Is not productive for anyone, and reality pushes you further back than forward

4: YOU REALLY ARE A (insert obscene language) BRAT IF YOU TRUELY BELIEVE THAT THE FRANKLY SMALL AMOUNT OF FRUSTRATION FROM LOL IS AN EXCUSE TO REDUCE OTHERS, YOUR FRUSTRATION IS NOTHING COMPARED TO MANY OTHERS, WHO ARE IN SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE POSITIONS THAN YOU, SO DONT EVER (beep) BELIEVE THAT REDUCING OTHER HUMANS CAN BE JUSTIFIED WITH COMPETITIVE FRUSTRATION, IT IS NOTHING COMPARED TO THE PERIL, FRUSTRATION, SADNESS, FEAR, HATRED SOME OTHER HUMANS HAVE TO ENDURE

Nrader3 votes

[deleted]

epic dude26115 votes

Did you even read through the whole post?

Except point four is an obstinate fact and so is point 3

You cannot deny points 3 or 4 , they are obstinate fact

Trash talking has no structure and doesn't help people to improve, telling someone that they are bad etc. With no evidence nor points for improvement / shortcomings is simply a waste of time.

There are people who have significantly worse frustrations than you, so using your miniscule frustration to justify reduction of human beings is ridiculous,

Anyways, what would you define as trash talking, give me examples so I can try and form a better conclusion

Kyaza3 votes

{quoted}

You do realize trash talking is in the competitive nature as well right? Frustration when you're playing or participating in a hyper competitive sport/game should be expected.

That's why the Korean scene is more successful, they embrace the competitive nature and the toxicity that comes with it because it makes better players

So what would you say crosses the line? because while i agree there is a difference between just competitive banter and flaming, what would you say that line is?

Oleandervine34 votes

Trash talking is like doing /laugh or /taunt or flashing your level 4 mastery after you kill your lane opponent. Or saying things like "Lol, Jayce can't handle the hentai" in all chat after Illaoi kills him. Trash talking is not "MY TEAM IS ALL F@&&OTS" after you die at the dragon pit and the enemy Katarina scores an ace. It's not "Stop fucking feeding you troll" when your mid lane makes bad choices and dies to Fizz. That's flaming and toxicity. There's a HUGE difference between being a cheeky bastard and making light of your enemy's losses and trying to goad them or even make them giggle versus being a raging asshole and pissing on everyone on your team when you fail and they can't drag you out of the hole your team is in.

Slice n Dice em12 votes

Sure, I would be getting down-voted for this but it needs to be said. When we talk about trash talking it's usually considered between enemies, if you are saying some thing toxic to YOUR OWN team that's FLAMING. Trash talking is like telling your enemy 'EZ' or 'they are shit' or 'dumb fk'. This just makes the enemy contemplate on their play's more the next time they play league. And no I am not going to write an essay on teaching my enemy how he fked up, spoon feeding is not an answer, he needs to know how/why he fked up, and best way to do that is get his attention, how? hit it where it hurts.

That's how improvement works, and tbh NA is just too thin skinned, because they think everything is toxicity. They think the other guy is just toxic and their is zero truth to his statement or why he is being toxic. Not every one is self critical, some times things need to be said. Half of the community, just play's for the sake of playing and playing it like zombies with their mind turned off. When you make a mistake, most of the times you forget or you don't care that much, but when some one is telling you, hey you fked up, then that thing is etched into your mind.

When you play with a self critical person, you know it. That person would say 'mb' before any one get's the chance to flame him. He truly knows what he has done wrong, and that person would always improve. KR and EUW server is like that, they improve. Meanwhile NA will always be focusing on Riot hypocrite Lyte's vision that hey that guy wrote one line against me he should be banned.

LordGeovanni2 votes

No trash talk is Ez game easy life. gg ez. Get out of my lane. - after a kill. Get shit on. Get Dunked on -for darius 1 word diffrence

Spacesuit Spiff2 votes

This. If your trash talk would seem out of place in a Letterkenny clip, think of something funnier

Yandere Carry3 votes

Calling it toxicity is weaksauce.

Subject 51 votes

{quoted}

Trash talking is like doing /laugh or /taunt or flashing your level 4 mastery after you kill your lane opponent. Or saying things like "Lol, Jayce can't handle the hentai" in all chat after Illaoi kills him. Trash talking is not "MY TEAM IS ALL F@&&OTS" after you die at the dragon pit and the enemy Katarina scores an ace. It's not "Stop fucking feeding you troll" when your mid lane makes bad choices and dies to Fizz. That's flaming and toxicity. There's a HUGE difference between being a cheeky bastard and making light of your enemy's losses and trying to goad them or even make them giggle versus being a raging asshole and pissing on everyone on your team when you fail and they can't drag you out of the hole your team is in.

Definitely agree.

I shouldn't be punished for trash talking,

I should be punished for toxicity.

Unfortunately, if I want somebody to be punished by Riot I am required to bait them into saying something that a robot can pick up, because I just know that Riot dishes out punishments indiscriminately to the intent of the player.

Want to get somebody banned or punished? Use sarcasm that can't be picked up by the bots, and boil them to bait them into saying something Riot can't punish without robots.

I Main Swain9 votes

no, the korean scene is more successful because over there video gaming is infinitely bigger than it is here. saying that being toxic is "competitive nature and makes you a better player" is probably the biggest bs statement ive seen today. for starters, theres a universe of difference between light hearted banter and full on toxicity, and in the context of league, where unless youre on voice chat the only meaning from statements is derived from the text itself, taking out tone and body language and everything that makes up like 90% of communication, the gap between the two is even bigger. and beyond that, how on earth could toxicity make you a better player? does calling the enemy laner trash make me get more cs?

Nrader

[{quoted}](name=I Main Swain,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MRk15XaN,comment-id=00010005,timestamp=2018-04-13T20:27:03.407+0000)

no, the korean scene is more successful because over theyre video gaming is infinitely bigger than it is here. saying that being toxic is "competitive nature and makes you a better player" is probably the biggest bs statement ive seen today. for starters, theres a universe of difference between light hearted banter and full on toxicity, and in the context of league, where unless youre on voice chat the only meaning from statements is derived from the text itself, taking out tone and body language and everything that makes up like 90% of communication, the gap between the two is even bigger. and beyond that, how on earth could toxicity make you a better player? does calling the enemy laner trash make me get more cs?

That's because you're straw manning the statement, if all you gathered out of my comment was "trash talking makes you better" then you lack reading comprehension

Korea embraces ALL competitive nature.

I Main Swain7 votes

they embrace the competitive nature and the toxicity that comes with it because it makes better players

apparently youre the one who lacks reading comprehension, because you outright said it twice. also, that wasnt straw manning at all, that was a completely legitimate rebuttal to your statement, its not my fault it was so easy to tear down. and yes, its true that frustration is to be expected in competition, but letting that frustration get the better of you is childish and is the very essence of poor sportsmanship. and either way, you never answered my question. how in any way is toxicity either excusable or something that can make you a better player?

Penta Penguin1 votes

Yeah korea has success in driving young men to suicide in abusive game houses and contracts

INoble KnightI4 votes

Korea has a high suicide rate period. It has nothing to do about game houses or contracts. It's about how you must prove your worth and if you're only redeeming feature is you can move and play a game it can cause depression and the desire to kill yourself.

Barcid10 votes

You conveniently gloss over the fact that the summoner's code also specifies that going something completely unconventional or picking the Zed mid while your team's all AD is also against the summoner's code.

To quote the very first section of the code itself:

"Being a good team player begins at champion select. Be open minded when considering the needs of your team. If you're the last one to pick, try to fill a niche in your team that hasn't already been filled. If everyone's picked and something stands out as a deficiency in your team composition, try asking for another player to fill the gap, or change roles to embrace that responsibility yourself. Remember, that by taking on a role you don't normally play, you'll learn more about unfamiliar champions and increase your own skill level."

Verbatim.

I like how you're using the code to really point out one issue when there's plenty of other issues that the code covers that I'm sure you'd be willing to just sweep under the rug.

Don't cherry pick. If you're going to preach the code, use all of it.

Karunamon10 votes

My rant was directed at people like Nrader (those quotes in the OP specifically) who consistently cape up for the permabanned-for-toxicity using all manner of bad faith mischaracterizations. "Ooh you don't want toxic chat you freakin SJW" "Why so thin skinned its just chat" "lol snowflake"- etc. Stupid, multiple-debunked talking points that I am starting to get a little bit tilted at seeing from people who know better because they have a functioning brain.

Nobody's saying that feeding/leaving/other gameplay behavior isn't a problem. Nobody's saying that those who do it don't deserve the unholy smite of the banhammer. Least of all me. And certainly nobody's saying that Riot is anything but way-too-slow at dealing with those cases. I've had those. I've ranted about them elsewhere.

The reason the disparity exists is dead simple - bad chat can be detected with simple filtering tools a first year CS student could write. CreampEye (of bait ban fame) thinks that it's a glorified bayesian email spam filter, and he's probably not that far off.

Intentionally bad play is a completely different ballgame in complexity alone. You can't ban people for merely sucking at League, since statistically, most people suck at League. The punishment for sucking at league is getting stuck at the bottom of bronze.

Sp33d Zer06 votes

Important to recognize though that this topic is centered around one aspect of the code, and not the code on it's whole. If it were, this would be a very long post that included things such as skins you bought, accounting trading, etc.

Supreme Senpai696 votes

You're right but he isn't cherry picking. He's ranting about one specific topic. Can you imagine how absurdly long it would be if he typed every paragraph of the summoner's code? Nobody would read it!

That's good information I wasn't aware of though. Why don't you go make a thread about it?

TeknoTel10 votes

Thats some really poor arguments. Firstly boxing is not a team match but a single person sport, a dual. Usually toxicity is directed at weak team mates, not ur opponents. If anything the chat between opponents is banter which both sides can have a lugh with or be offended over if they wish. In my experience cross team banter is more fun then anything else. In boxing I have seen boxers spit in each others faces also and start brawls before and after fights, so please think of a better analogy.

In a serious team sport if one member of team is at a far lower skill level then everyone else, I can assure you stern words will be said to that player. If that player cries to the coach over it he will get told to grow up or get out, most likely in a real life situation the person will just deal with it like a adult. If anything league is nothing like real sports, in league you can get banned for criticizing someones poor play, in reality this happens all the time and is used constructively.

The truth is whether you like it or now, if you are that easily offended by someones words in a computer game you have the option to be the bigger person, ignore them and even mute them. Options you don't get in any other aspect of life. So please stop with the comparisons they are totally void and incomparable.

The inconvenient truth is most of the 'being offended' and reporting is done out of spite. Very rarely do I see one person spamming chat with offensive remarks to a person who is not responding. The majority of the time its back and forth. Most of the time the reports are like a final insult, if you get a chat ban on the person its like you won and defeated enemy. That will show you for criticism me or trying to talk shit to me.

In my opinion, which is valid, reporting over chat is pathetic. If you really don't like something someone is saying, mute them and move on. Someone inting or playing a troll role or afking base, then yes they are ruining the game for everyone, they deserve to be reported and banned,

If someone is using violent or racial insults to you, then yes ok they deserve to be banned.

If someone criticizes your play and you don't like it, then ignore and block. To me reporting in that situation is just as petty as the person chatting shit. You know whats refreshing? Someone actually saying you know what, I am bronze 3, I am really shit at this game so when people criticise me, I might just listen and learn something. I used to play with lots of toxic people, even though it wasn't that fun they definitely made me improve. Some of them were a lot better then me and what they were saying was right, even if I didnt like the tone of it. It pushed me to look things up and improve. I am no pro, but I am much better then I would jave been thanks to them.

Its a game, be a man. Remember real life is nothing like this, you cant ban people who criticism you there, may as well get used to it. I know this isn't the community line but I don't really care, the world never used to be anything like this. This approach does nothing but feed kids the wrong idea about how life works.

Void Kaiju3 votes

Tbh I mute people very quickly in my games. But I somebody is toxic enough that I need to chat mute them, then ping mute them, then etc etc etc. I'm reporting them. I don't need somebody who will flame my teammates and who denies me the ability to interact and make strategies with my team because they need to use up all that chat space telling everybody what pieces of shit they are. I'm fine with somebody criticizing my play. If somebody tells me "I need you to do X so i can do Y, so stop doing what you've been doing" I will try my best to help them. Saying "fuck you youre garbage" isn't a criticism. It's just an insult. And it's seldom the best player on your team doing the flaming. Usually it's the worst. Reporting somebody for being a petty bitch isn't equally petty. You didn't take their hands and type the words. You didn't make them a prick. You're merely reminding them that if they choose to be an ass in somebody else's house, they sure as hell can expect to get the boot.

That said, It is absolutely within somebody's rights to be an asshole. They aren't being arrested for it or silenced. But it is also absolutely within somebody else's rights to decide they don't want people being assholes on their product. The people who call other people snowflakes whilst publishing a thousand threads about how triggered they are that anybody could find kaisa's v-neck unnecessary sexualization always seem to forget that just because your speech is free doesn't mean people need to give you a platform.

ItPoursOs1 votes

[deleted]

TeknoTel1 votes

Not if you disagree with the policy....

SEKAI7 votes

https://pastormichaeldenver.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/calvinandhobbs.png

EDIT: picture stops working again, it seems. Urgh.

Sugarlicious6 votes

I expect this to get a lot of downvotes but I don't care, somebody has to show you and those like you the other point of view.

First, this isn't a boxing match. You are not alone against another player and depending on only your skills, you are playing in a team against a team. And if your teammate is causing your team to lose, in any sport, that teammate would be replaced, fired, or similar. No coach would keep a bad player on the team, and no player wants to play with a bad teammate. But in LoL, you can't do that, if there is a bad player, you're stuck with them. So don't compare this to sports, sports have rules that protect both bad and good players, LoL doesn't do anything to protect good players from playing with the bad ones.

Second, you all like to say over and over how telling somebody they are bad can only make them play worse, but not one of you ever mentions how a bad player makes good players feel. You think I'm okay when I see you feeding mid? You think it motivates me to play better just so I can try to carry since you're making this difficult? No, it makes me want to give up because why should I work twice as hard for you who can't even keep their lane at least neutral by not dying 5 times in 10 minutes.

Third, it might not be easy to play good, but it is easy to not play bad. When you notice that you can't win, stay under your turret, farm, hell, go afk if you need to. Literally the only thing you should not do is die. But no, most bad players have to keep dying because idk why, probably something to do with their ego.

Fourth, what is it that you actually want? You want good players to stay silent while you lose your lane and cause the entire team to lose? And what punishment do you get for that, or do you think you deserve none because who cares about the fact that you made the game terrible for 4 other people? We can't report you for feeding because it's not intentional, you didn't go afk, you're not flaming, so what happens? Nothing, you get to play another game and be as bad as you want to be all over again. So excuse me for saying this, but a couple of hurtful words from people whose game you just ruined is the least you deserve. Play against bots until you learn your champ, play Aram so you can see how other champs function, play with friends, watch youtube, read guides, there are so many safer options...

Fifth, you are on the Internet. if I added you on FB now and started calling you names, would you go cry to your mom? Would you call the police and tell them there is somebody telling you that you suck? Well, maybe you would but that's not how the world works. You chose to come online and enter the digital world where people don't have to respect you,share your opinion, like you, or do anything you want them to. It's a simple fact that with the anonymity of our characters, there comes a lot less automatic respect. And if you cannot handle that, then you're simply not mature enough for the Internet. There's so much talk on the news about this "offended" generation that can't handle anything today, and well, at least you know you're not alone. Even in this game, yes, you are the majority.

Finally, none of this matters because at the end of the day, you can still report players for flaming you while I can't report you for playing badly. So, cheers. [slayer-jinx-catface]

Karunamon9 votes

I'm only going to respond to one thing here because it kind of underpins all else:

You chose to come online and enter the digital world where people don't have to respect you,share your opinion, like you, or do anything you want them to.

And you chose to come online and enter a place with different rules. If you want 4chan social rules, go to 4chan. There are plenty of other places online for you to vent your spleen on random strangers if this bothers you so much.

This is Riot's back yard, they set the rules for acceptable discourse. Not you.

Sugarlicious3 votes

{quoted}

I'm only going to respond to one thing here because it kind of underpins all else:

And you chose to come online and enter a place with different rules. If you want 4chan, go to 4chan. Plenty of other places online for you to vent your spleen on random strangers if this bothers you so much.

I agree but I'm not the one telling you to stop acting the way you're acting. Be as offended as you want to be, but you're here asking others to be nice? Let the rules handle them. Yes, I know the meaning of a "rant", so I guess you could say that was my way of ranting to your rant.

Karunamon7 votes

The fact that you characterize not wanting to deal with people shittalking and making my team more likely to lose as "offense" tells me that you either didn't read the post or don't understand the point I was tying to make :/

comedybingbongs5 votes

How do you know thats what the community wants? NA has the most intense filter system by far and Cowsep, QTpie, and Scarra were all laughing about how ridiculous it is on the last episode of Beyond The Rift.

League has always been regarded as the most popular game to play and watch, as well as the most toxic. So I don't see how you can argue there is any relationship between toxicity and playrate

Nrader3 votes

{quoted}

How do you know thats what the community wants? NA has the most intense filter system by far and Cowsep, QTpie, and Scarra were all laughing about how ridiculous it is on the last episode of Beyond The Rift.

League has always been regarded as the most popular game to play and watch, as well as the most toxic. So I don't see how you can argue there is any relationship between toxicity and playrate

They think that the 10-20 upvotes they get on threads like these is proof that "this is what the community wants"

But when the sample size is bigger like this thread https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/2bNAe0Ee-unlock-permanently-banned-accounts-reformed-players

You see something completely different.

Child of the Pit9 votes

The boards consists of many players spread from almost everywhere, especially in NA, here come players from EUNE, EUW, NA, OCE etc.

IF a post gets a good amount of upvotes it comes from different human beings with different mindsets, meaning that players that are not on the boards but have the same mindset as the one who upvotes would approximatelly have a 99% chance of upvoting it aswell.

Just saying that so people stop with sentences like these.

They think that the 10-20 upvotes they get on threads like these is proof that "this is what the community wants"

haaaaaaalp3 votes

{quoted}

The standards for behavior here are significantly higher than many other games because that's what the community wants. That's what attracts the most people. Atmosphere.

So here is the problem. I don't think there is any shred of evidence that what you claim is in any way representative of what the community wants. Your vision is one that most of the community may not be bothered by but to suggest that it is the ideal of what the entire community wants is where you kill your own argument.

The atmosphere that attracted the most people and shot mobas from nothing more than a side game on warcraft 3 to one of the most successful genras in the world did not ban anyone for anything besides hacking and chargebacks.

Karunamon1 votes

Ah, DOTA, that game that has like a tenth of the player base despite having a more technically polished and feature-filled game with much higher prize stakes?

haaaaaaalp2 votes

{quoted}

Ah, DOTA, that game that has like a tenth of the player base despite having a more technically polished and feature-filled game with much higher prize stakes?

No, you are thinking about dota 2. Dota was the game that jumpstarted the genra from nothing more than a footnote on warcraft 3 engine into one of the most successful genras despite having hundreds of technical difficulties which were renamed "features" because it was too hard to work around.

Surefire232 votes

Also please consider to what player base you are addressing these comments to. I'll grant there is a large player base who simply want to play norms and enjoy the game, never even playing enough ranked matches to finish placements during any season and pretty much having no knowledge or experience of what ranked play is actually like. Then there is the player base that lives almost exclusively in ranked, where LP gain/loss is the entire reason for playing the game. Im sure it is not hard to imagine how these two player bases would want different things from the game and expect a different sort of atmosphere while playing.

Yaśuo Main2 votes

what is the point of this post again,

i mean I'm not exactly sure what event caused this rant. was there some sort of post orrrr

Surefire232 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yaśuo Main,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MRk15XaN,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-04-13T22:52:06.336+0000)

what is the point of this post again,

i mean I'm not exactly sure what event caused this rant. was there some sort of post orrrr

It is an essay with no clear thesis, as far as I can decipher at least.

Modi9 votes

Literally the first sentence:

This is a rant, and the tone of the writing reflects that

Pandemic Punch2 votes

Everyone wants nice behavior with good intent. However, that culture must develop or come to fruition naturally and genuinely. When you have a collective trying to ENFORCE culture, you end up creating a culture of people who want to portray the opposite in the name of sincerity.

Jerks will always exist no matter what but if you tell them what not to say (what you view as most offensive), then they will gravitate to it when they get mad and WANT to offend you. You essentially tell them what your weak spots are. That is exactly what SJW's do and that is why you will continue to hear the term in this weak community. SJW's try to enforce culture, belief systems, and what your opinions should be on subjects that offend them.

Karunamon1 votes

Jerks will always exist no matter what but if you tell them what not to say (what you view as most offensive), then they will gravitate to it when they get mad and WANT to offend you.

And then they lose their accounts, they come here and cry about it and call people SJWs, we laugh, they fuck off or make a new account.

For what seems like the bazillionth time this thread, not wanting people behaving shittily in your games, making your team more likely to lose, does not make one an "SJW" or whatever the latest unimaginative slur is.

Surefire231 votes

{quoted}

This is a rant, and the tone of the writing reflects that.

Some recent posts here and on reddit have me putting to words some blow-by-blow takedowns of the usual "ITS JUST BANTER" "LEEG COMMUNITY IS JUST THIN SKINNED AMIRITE?" bullshit that everyone reading this board has seen a thousand times.

It's acerbic. It's based in frustration and not a small amount of anger. It probably comes off as holier-than-thou. There's lots of swearing (ESRB rated M for "Mad") It's probably tl;dr and contains spelling and grammar errors.

It's also true.

Turn back now if this bothers you.

>People getting their feelings hurt on the internet

>mild criticisms from strangers

>I mean I know Epidermolysis bullosa is rare, but I swear most league players now days seem to be developing this tragic condition.

You seem to be operating under the misconception that the summoner's code you so haughtily crap on is about creating a "safe space" or for protecting kids or the thin skinned or about SJWism, to name one of many canards that keep coming up and that you used a few of.

That is not what those rules are for.

Do you know why, during a boxing match, the fighters touch gloves? Why one steps away when the other is knocked down?

Do you know why, on the LCS stage, the opposing team coaches shake hands, even though they should be bitter rivals?

Do you know why it's considered good manners to say "glhf" at the start of the game and "gg" at the end?

It's called sportsmanship. Sportsmanship ensures that both the game and the players are respected. Even if you don't respect the other player, even if they don't respect you, you respect the game, and so you show a sportsmanlike attitude anyways.

That means no smack talking your own team when they're playing badly (as if that has EVER helped anyone win)

That means no smack talking a troll (because what are they going to do, troll less? have you ever met a troll?).

And that certainly means not trying to rules-lawyer your way around either of these things by evading chat filters, spamming smart pings, or any of the other myriad ways people have devised to avoid doing the one thing they're supposed to do.

Sportsmanship serves to delineate further the inside of the game from the outside of the game. Inside the game, you leave all that shit behind and compete on neutral ground. Part of you stays behind when you're ingame, the parts of you that have bills to pay and chores to do and eyes and lungs. You are (or at least, should be) fully engaged. On your champion, on the map, on what's going on right in front of you. You should be in a mental state called "flow".

It means that in the spirit of RESPECTING THE GAME, you mute troublemakers rather than descend to their level and roll in the pig shit with them. It means you report them after the game so they can be either corrected (which statistically works) or failing that, be encouraged to go play somewhere else.

Grace in victory, humility in defeat. Respect for the game. And if you don't respect the game, then why the _fuck _ are you here?

Riot makes these rules because people want to play games with positive, sportsmanlike atmospheres, and the behavior that you're so keen on permitting completely trashes that atmosphere. This isn't 4chan. This isn't Call of Duty. This isn't Halo. I'm sure a certain subset of people would be overjoyed to learn that they can call other people homophobic slurs, or talk about how they did your mom last night, or advocate that people kill themselves (protip: most normal people find this disgusting), or spam information that everybody already knows in an attempt to get under the skin OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HELPING TO WIN THE GODDAMN GAME!

The standards for behavior here are significantly higher than many other games because that's what the community wants. That's what attracts the most people. Atmosphere. Not just the visual and sound design, but the community is a large part of that. League is a game of the highest highs (when your team just works) and a game of the lowest lows (Faker, Worlds stage 2017. Nuff said). There are plenty of highs and lows in regular gameplay without your keyboard-dribbling flamebait adding more fuel to the fire that we could mostly put out if you'd just do something that's eaiser than what you're already doing.

This is League of Legends. And if you have a problem with any word of this, I suggest you go play somewhere else too. DOTA2's LPQ is just down the road. Spare us all the rationalizations and the whyfores and the wheretos of why you had to smack talk instead of just typing /mute. You did it because you lack self-control (what, you're going to argue that someone who can't control what buttons they press on a keyboard has a great deal of it?), and because you didn't think you'd be punished for not reading what you thought was just another bit of pre-game legalese.

Guess what? You can and are expected to (most people do, after all), and you were, and you really should have. (Seriously. It's not a freakin' legal document, it's a statement of philosophy. It's as a great, encouraging read. )

Show some god damn dignity, and maybe some respect for the game while you'e at it.

Be better.

Assume much, know little. It is okay young grasshopper, things change when you have played league of legends for almost a decade. Experience brings knowledge and wisdom which can be gained or comprehended by no other means.

AJStarhiker6 votes

{quoted}

Assume much, know little. It is okay young grasshopper, things change when you have played league of legends for almost a decade. Experience brings knowledge and wisdom which can be gained or comprehended by no other means.

Try again. I've been playing since S1, and if anything, I've grown less patient (re: quicker to mute/report) with people who want to flame, belittle, and harass other people. I might understand the motivations behind that kind of behavior better, but I've had to deal with too much of that crap IRL and have no interest in seeing it when I'm trying to relax and have fun.

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