Boards›Player Behavior

Player Behavior Systems' Lack of Feedback is Depressing

Auroramancer·1/15/2018, 5:48:24 PM·84 votes·3,201 views

Feedback for players who use the Report feature is so absent, and is very discouraging for good and neutral players to have radio silence with regard to the effectiveness of their reports.

Here are some metrics that, in my opinion, would really instill more confidence in players when they use the reporting feature:

  • Notify us EVERY TIME one of our reports has resulted in or contributed to the punishment of a player.
  • You don't want witch hunts or grave dancing, so don't show it to us immediately after we get out of game with that punished player.
  • If players really don't want to be notified of every confirmed report, then allow them to opt-out of Player Behavior notifications. You made E-sports notifications pop-up by default and gave us an option to opt-out; you can do it for Player Behavior notifications.
  • When notified, give us the option to see the report that we filled out, such as what boxes we checked and what text we typed out. This reminds us what kind of behavior we reported for and was deemed not acceptable by your system and the community overall.
  • Showing us our relevant report is especially important, because it reaffirms to us that what we reported is not considered acceptable. We no longer have to wonder "should I not be reporting people for abusing pings to harass others?" or "does Riot even check for racist remarks in chat?". It's reaffirming to see confirmation that "yes, we do not consider ping abuse acceptable. please keep reporting this behavior".
  • Maybe, when notified, give us the option to see the chat log(s) shown to the punished player. Again, don't show player names, show champion-played names. Reaffirm to us what the offending player did, but leave out their identity.
  • Let us review our report consistency, such as "in the last 6 months, you've submitted 'X' reports. 'Y' of those reports resulted in punishments. Please keep using the report feature when you encounter behavior you do not agree with."

Counter-arguments that I've heard from other people:

  • "Riot doesn't want witch hunts or grave dancing when someone is punished".
  • I agree. But that's not going to happen if you don't send out a notification IMMEDIATELY after that one game, and if you don't include the punished player's name in the notification. Sure, there's going to be a few FRINGE cases of people being like "yo, I just got notified that the one dude I reported 3 games ago got punished. I'm going to sift through my match history or Recently Played tab to add that player and harass them using the client's chat feature on the off-chance that they accept my friend request. Surely they won't screenshot my harassment towards them and send in a report to Player Support showing my actions."
  • It's better to allow FRINGE cases of players "tracking" and harassing a punished player, than it is to leave MANY good and neutral players in the dark with regard to feedback on their contribution to community health. Reinforce your community Riot.
  • "You shouldn't need feedback to keep using the report feature".
  • That's bullshit and here's why. I just saw a post on the Boards today about a player encountering racism in a game, where players on the enemy team were using the n-word all caps in all chat, repeatedly. The player reported the behavior and received no feedback on whether the report contributed or not. Granted, the player only waited a few hours or so in anticipation of a feedback notification, but the point is that they were left dumbfounded and discouraged by the lack of feedback. Giving players feedback notifications on a consistent basis PREVENTS this kind of discouragement and confusion on Riot's stance on Player Behavior. Sure, Riot can say "we do not tolerate racism", but when good players report actual racism and they get no feedback, Riot's words appear to be empty and saving face. Even then, Riot can say "our words are empty and not saving face", but it won't mean much.
  • I myself have gone about 3 months without a feedback notification. I've reported countless times of players flaming others, abusing pings to harass other players, rallying for reports in all chat on a particular player, responding to team talk with ad hominem attacks, flinging out racist remarks, players telling others to kill themselves, players telling others that they should have been aborted, premade groups witch-hunting other players in-game for minor mistakes, using allied death timers as a form of harassment, ETC. To go so long without a feedback notification telling me that ANY of these players were punished for this kind of behavior is so depressing and discouraging. It makes me think Riot condones this kind of behavior. No amount of "we really don't condone this behavior" will offset the silence of feedback. The less feedback players get, the less "players should not need feedback to feel confident about their reports" rings true.
  • "There aren't that many players who feel the need to receive feedback"
  • Okay, but there are still players who want feedback. There's little harm in providing more feedback, and if players don't want more feedback, let them opt out of Player Behavior notifications, like with E-sports notifications. Meanwhile those of us who DO want more feedback will get the feedback we are looking for. There's more potential benefit than potential harm.

I'm sure the Player Behavior team(s) have already considered the features I've mentioned above, and my counter to the counter-arguments. If a Rioter is reading this, what are the team's reasons for why the features I've suggested weren't implemented? If the reason is substantiated by the counter-arguments, then why do the counter-arguments hold true or are favored?

93 Comments

Jo0o1/15/2018, 6:19:33 PM18 votes

I agree that feedback would help the system. There's a troubling pattern of people saying the equivalent of "nothing will happen to me" when confronted with accusations of trolling or toxicity. People wrongfully assume that reports do nothing, because there's very little indication to the reporting player that any action is taken.

Kikirino1/16/2018, 12:59:31 AM7 votes

How about on a weekly basis players get a popup saying something along the lines of "Your reports helped flag X number of accounts for review by Riot's Player Behavior Specialists" It won't say what accounts were flagged or punished but lets the player know that their reports were valid and heard.

AninLegions7771/15/2018, 9:18:15 PM5 votes

Or you could just live your life LIKE A NORMAL PERSON and move on? Maybe? Just MAYBE?!

Reverent Wrath1/15/2018, 10:14:06 PM4 votes

Not sure this system is even working. I've reported two people in the last two days for distinct homophobic language and have received no notifications. For something that is supposed to be zero tolerance and the words were basic enough to be caught in the auto detect I can't imagine why I have not received any notifications for these two. I think it is like much of what RIOT makes. It only works when they want it to.

Karunamon1/16/2018, 7:21:54 PM3 votes

Hell, I'd take getting the "thanks for reporting, we took action" popup on every valid report - no further details required. That alone would be better than people using racist language in games and finding them still playing days later.

Butt Ρlug1/15/2018, 6:11:24 PM3 votes

The main issue with feedback is that those who get punished will get harassed, it's been done in the past already.

So it's best for everyone to not know it, or else you'll have people messaging the dude that they got banned just to harass him. Now you can say "well he deserve it !", or maybe you're not someone who will do that, but plenty of people will, and the goal is to reduce overall toxicity.

Marshbouy1/16/2018, 9:26:23 PM3 votes

I've gone years without feedback for my reports. I'd really like that to change. Even just one card would mean a lot to me.

ModPeriscope1/15/2018, 7:01:34 PM3 votes

Notify us EVERY TIME one of our reports has resulted in or contributed to the punishment of a player.

That much I can be against. If you reported someone from 3 months ago, and they just now played another game, how likely are you to remember, "Oh yea that's the Trundle who split push all game and called the rest of us dorks and fanny bandits." There's gotta be a time/match based limit on how far back feedback has to go.

Zombie Gerbil1/15/2018, 8:36:46 PM3 votes

You have to understand, players aren't always punished due to one game. I understand you see your game being ruined feels like it should be a top priority, but this game does not revolve around you. Players won't be punished just for your game. So you can't expect your report or the numbers report from one game should trigger an automatic punishment to that player from just your game. Hell, even two games won't bring him down. It has to be an ongoing thing and ruined numbers of games he/she generally playing.

Also, the board is hardly accurate when people come here witch hunting and bringing up players who are sexist, racist and homophobic. The majority of them that do come here making those claims are often the guilty ones. It feels like you're more into seeing players being punished than trying to move on and play the game for what it is. Why is this so important to you? I can understand a game being ruined by a very toxic player frustrating, but you're putting more into this than what the game is intended for.

This game isn't about playing one game, finding the toxic player and trying to punish them asap. We aren't playing a detective game. Just mute, report, and move on. If the player is punishable, he'll be punished for it. But stop obsessing over negative part of the game and try to focus on the positive aspect of it. Because you're more focus on the punishing system rather than gaming.

Chaywood1/16/2018, 4:47:15 PM3 votes

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ x100

Hopefully the fact that they've just overhauled honour means that they're looking at reporting. It is an unreadable blackhole of all of my frustrations and rage, and the lack of feedback is abysmal.

People aren't afraid of being reported, and that needs to change.

And i'm not just saying that I want to ban every player I report - I would like some sort of tiered system where I can try to highlight the severity of the offence. A finger wag and slap on the wrist, versus a full blown punch to the face, for example.