RE: I demand a human

HoldMyPlank·Jul 8, 2019·6 votes·2,939 views

I will gladly apply to a position under Riot Games that will allow me to personally review toxic behavior for a reasonable wage.

I personally would find this job thoroughly entertaining.

Give me a quota of 100 cases per day and I would probably triple it... maybe more..

With the current attitude toward Riot's system of Tribunal, I think creating a squad of people that handle this would be worth while as it would increase the quality of the game ** TEN FOLD**.

Please DM me back Riot and I will submit a resume of my previous work experience and we can negotiate a wage, etc.

Thanks.

EDIT: You guys definitely humbled me ok... I've read all of the comments and appreciate all the feedback...at this point I'm simply asking questions out of curiosity. Have a good night. OXO

51 Comments

ModThe DjinnJul 8, 20196 votes

{quoted}Give me a quota of 100 cases per day and I would probably triple it... maybe more..

Let's be optimistic and assume you can accurately review a game in 1 minute with high reliability and consistently. Let's further assuming you work a full 8-hour day with no breaks for meetings, lunch, or anything.

That's 480 games per day.

As of the last statistics we have, League has 4.2 million daily players. Let's round that to 4 million for ease of use. We'll assume an average of 1 game per player (which is very low), and we'll also assume that a meager 10% of games have a reported player in them.

That's 400,000 games, or 40,000 reported games.

That's EIGHTY-THREE employees JUST review games, assuming multiple circumstances hugely in your favor.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20192 votes

That's an interesting figure, youre saying since theres 10 players in a game, assuming that all players that day are in a match there would be 400,000 games being played every few hours of the day... blah blah.

I know you guys get a high volume of tickets, its probably a never ending stack. Thing is, even at places like state farm(call center my friend works at), the claimees often out number the claim associates, and even THEY are backed up. I respect the work you guys do, just tell me where I can submit a resume hot damn

GatekeeperTDSJul 8, 20192 votes

Nobody here works for Riot support...all of the boards staff are volunteers and do not deal with player punishments.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20191 votes

Doesn't mean they aren't a knowledgeable bunch [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

GatekeeperTDSJul 8, 20191 votes

I didn't say they weren't?

AladoronJul 8, 20192 votes

The Djinn is not a Rito employee, just a self appointed volunteer SJW.

CharDeeMcDennizJul 8, 20196 votes

he's probably one of the most level-headed people on the boards so where you're pulling SJW from i just dont know.

AladoronJul 8, 20192 votes

Did you ever read any of his comments or posts? :D

CharDeeMcDennizJul 9, 20192 votes

failbait

ModThe DjinnJul 8, 20195 votes

{quoted}The Djinn is not a Rito employee, just a self appointed volunteer SJW.

Some interesting facts:

I'm not self-appointed. I was vetted for this role by Riot, and they are able to review or change that decision at any time.
Insulting me doesn't really phase me much. I don't really care what you think or do provided you follow the relatively simple rules of the board. If you feel that qualifies as a "social justice warrior," then have fun with that.

AladoronJul 8, 20192 votes

Insulting me doesn't really phase me much.

Was it insulting? Why didn't you just read it as something else, what you like? I mean, you are pretty good at reading different words than the ones written in a comment :)

If you feel that qualifies as a "social justice warrior," then have fun with that.

Thanks!

HotarµJul 8, 20195 votes

Give me a quota of 100 cases per day and I would probably triple it... maybe more..

And unfortunately you would still fall far, far behind the amount of reports coming in every second.

There's a reason that Riot uses an automated system, it's because hand-reviewed cases are too slow, too inconsistent, and ultimately do nothing but burn a hole in their pocket.

With the current attitude toward Riot's system of Tribunal, I think creating a squad of people that handle this would be worth while as it would increase the quality of the game TEN FOLD.

I'm a little confused by your wording here. I assume you're talking about people's attitude towards Riot's current system and how some of them want the Tribunal back, but I could be wrong.

The Tribunal was incapable of handling the large amount of reports that came in on a daily basis rendering it more and more ineffective as the game's community grew over time. It may have worked in S1/S2 but it definitely wouldn't work today.

If we had to bring back a player-forum of some sort, maybe it could be used for controversial cases like the Nubrac/NB3 situation? When something is a huge point of contention and in an overall gray area, the community could put it to a vote and the most popular solution would help dictate rulings in the future. I didn't put too much thought into that so there are probably some holes here and there but my point is that the Tribunal doesn't have a place in League anymore, atleast not for standard cases.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20192 votes

OOPS! You're right. I was accidentally referring to Riot's CURRENT judgement system as "Tribunal" but of course that was the name of the original Human Based System.

And you're also right, hundreds wouldn't cut it... BUT... I think if they developed a system that factored things like severity(volume of reports in a single game), second time offenders(3rd time etc), and even TYPES of reports(harassment etc)ALTOGETHER... Then I think a human team could be viable to handle the large volume of reports WHILE an automated system taking down a majority of reports.

And lastly, I was making this suggestion because I think it is impossible to make an automated system solely judge player behavior. While things like Leaver Buster can take AFK cases on (Because its easy... You leave= You're punished) But if theres certain cases that are complex, they can be handed off to a person.

I've played this game for 5+ years, it would only a take me a couple minutes to find the difference between a shmuck and a toxic individual.

rujitraJul 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

And you're also right, hundreds wouldn't cut it... BUT... I think if they developed a system that factored things like severity(volume of reports in a single game)

So people can now call for reports because there's a reason to, increasing verbal toxicity?

, second time offenders(3rd time etc)

So people can now int or whatever once or twice and be fine?

and even TYPES of reports(harassment etc)ALTOGETHER...

Which reports should humans prioritize, and why should those be prioritized over others?

And lastly, I was making this suggestion because I think it is impossible to make an automated system solely judge player behavior. While things like Leaver Buster can take AFK cases on (Because its easy... You leave= You're punished) But if theres certain cases that are complex, they can be handed off to a person.

Certainly, and this is already how the system works. Human review is present in all report categories - but primarily automated.

I've played this game for 5+ years, it would only a take me a couple minutes to find the difference between a shmuck and a toxic individual.

Anyone who says something like this is prone to quick, inaccurate action and not suited to be a report reviewer.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20192 votes

So people can now int or whatever once or twice and be fine?

You are twisting my words here... but in short... no. It would take a lot of explaining to define "severity" because it would have multiple dimensions in what makes a "severe case".(Like if u got x9 blah blah) Im sure if we drew up the real formula here people would get the wrong idea...

The idea is to make a system that can decide whether to "handle" a case, or pass it off to a REAL PERSON.

But to respond to your other point, if theres a reason to report, people should report. But witch hunting an individual in chat should be thoroughly frowned upon.

I know there's a lot of sensitivities here... Im just saying Im willing to join the fray if theres a job opening.. hehe

rujitraJul 8, 20192 votes

Using any form of report count, report text, or anything of that nature to "sequence" reports for human review will lead to abuse of the system. Period.

The current system where Riot does not publicize what is used (it likely has to do with some "flags" of the game, such as certain suspicious behavior) prevents abuse.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20191 votes

Using any form of report count, report text, or anything of that nature to "sequence" reports for human review will lead to abuse of the system. Period.

I think if they made reports more comprehensive (aka. making the report process a wee less vague than just checking boxes that may or may not have any meaning).

Like if an incident occurred, people should have an easy one-time-use-per-game key command that flags an incident's time stamp which is automatically loaded into the report ticket when it is submitted. ( Therefore when people use this time stamp tool, they need to submit a ticket for it to go anywhere. And if they messed it up and flagged at a random time, they can just uncheck a "Use time stamp" box that will only be interactable if the time stamp feature was used.

spitballing here... yadda I love your game

rujitraJul 8, 20192 votes

The problem is everyone will use that. Someone dies? They'll use the "one time per game" timestamp feature to report them and say "LOOK THEY DIED ITS INTING" - increasing greatly the amount of backlog in reports.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20191 votes

It was an idea... realistically though, I think that a more comprehensive reporting process would potentially decrease the volume of reports. Something more than a check box, because Im sure people report for "inting" when there isn't any inting going on, the only difference is this gives you a moment to look through instead of sifting through an entire game wondering where the inting is happening.

But also, falsely reporting is a bannable offense (right?)

rujitraJul 8, 20192 votes

It's not - because Riot does not want to punish innocent players and they also do not want to discourage reporting.

Furthermore, inting is rarely based on a "moment". One bad play will not determine inting - hell, even one running into the enemy won't without more evidence becasue people lag out or have issues.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20191 votes

Really? so let me ask...

If falsely reporting is not a bannable offense(unless there is an alternate punishment, honor locking etc), then what is stopping people from falsely reporting?

Because I have a group of toxic friends that queue as 5, and proceed to group-report an enemy team member( or even one of their own lol) that underperformed, but certainly didn't do anything malicious in the game. A few minutes later they get the prompt that says "Someone you recently reported has been punished".

Now this is an old example, but proof that malicious reporting does happen and leads to negative outcomes.

But on your other point, I think that** requiring** some sort of description of the problem/ or using the time stamp feature I described would provide extra assistance in understanding the nature of a report that is under review. (Rather than having checked boxes and no other description).

Even if a player said in the description that was supposedly required,_ "They inted at the start of the game and ruined my lane"_ it would be FAR more useful...

GatekeeperTDSJul 8, 20191 votes

Because I have a group of toxic friends that queue as 5, and proceed to group-report an enemy team member( or even one of their own lol) that underperformed, but certainly didn't do anything malicious in the game. A few minutes later they get the prompt that says "Someone you recently reported has been punished".

Then that enemy team member must have retaliated and broken the rules. Correlation does not equal causation. Invalid reports, and this is from Riot directly, are discarded by the system. The system does not work by volume of reports.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20191 votes

They chat restricted one of themselves for hate speech when it simply did not happen. As a joke of course, but is a symptom of a larger problem no?

GatekeeperTDSJul 8, 20192 votes

They chat restricted one of themselves for hate speech when it simply did not happen.

Not possible.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20191 votes

¯_(ツ)_/¯

hrooza dota Jul 9, 20191 votes

ya and i reported 9 innocent players in one game and all get perma banned

see i can make up stories that are not real.

rujitraJul 8, 20191 votes

Nothing stops it. And that prompt can appear up to 24-48 hours after a report if the system is backlogged. Your story certainly isn't verifiable - especially given that it's at this point at least double hearsay and has no data at all as to what the report categories were or anything.

Even if it did result in a punishment in error, that player would've had it removed upon contacting support.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20191 votes

Certainly, and this is already how the system works. Human review is present in all report categories - but primarily automated.

Im glad! Honestly.. sorry if Im coming off a bit cocky here, Im simply throwing in my hand to help.

Anyone who says something like this is prone to quick, inaccurate action and not suited to be a report reviewer.

Now now ok ok, I talk big game ok, every job has a learning curve and Im sure you guys take a lot of pride in the hard work you do for the playerbase. I don't mean to demean you guys in any way. I simply want to help if there is an expansion of jobs in this field [slayer-jinx-wink]

AlienPrimateJul 8, 20192 votes

The simple solution would be to weigh reports with an algorithm. Make it so after so many reports that don't result in punishment, the reports of an abuser would just be tossed out and the reports of people who sparingly use the system correctly go straight to the top. This would weed out the false reports over bad games over time. They could also keep reports of hate speech and verbal abuse automated and only use people to sort through reports of griefing and feeding.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20191 votes

Theres a lot of sensitivity as to what to make the system **do, **

but I definitely see that being an ineffective solution in the grand scheme of things, sorry.

Think of the "boy who cried wolf"... similar story.

GatekeeperTDSJul 8, 20192 votes

The current system already throws out invalid reports, hence why the number of reports doesn't matter.

AlienPrimateJul 8, 20191 votes

It doesn't really matter in a fully automated system. I'm talking if they switched over to people handling all greifing reports, people who constantly report for bad games would overwhelm that system. To overcome this, just make it so after so many reports within a time period that don't result in punishment, that person's reports are disregarded for a period of time.

GatekeeperTDSJul 8, 20192 votes

And then you may end up throwing away valid reports...an automated system gets rid of the invalid reports.

AlienPrimateJul 8, 20191 votes

You would never throw away valid reports because if the report is valid more than one person will report. If half the reports are the false "report x for feeding" then you still have half the players in a 10 man game who can report someone who deserves a report. Actual reports will always get through.

rujitraJul 8, 20192 votes

You simply couldn't review 100 cases accurately in an 8 hour workday. Period.

With the current attitude toward Riot's system of Tribunal, I think creating a squad of people that handle this would be worth while as it would increase the quality of the game TEN FOLD.

This squad would require tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people on it, which is simply not possible.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20192 votes

I work in a call center that handles 125~ CALLS in my 8 hour shift, where I handle things like payments between firms, management services, etc.

And Riot is a multi million dollar company, like I'm not saying its within their budget, but like cmon, they can employ a couple dozen individuals to handle this... especially high volume call center workers... you'd be surprised what they can do.

It would take some practice, but like a team like that can get some serious work done.

rujitraJul 8, 20192 votes

They already do have a couple dozen people. Actually, last I heard from a friend that works in their support department, they number over 100. Furthermore, I guarantee you that your calls are generally simple resolutions - you don't have to watch a 40 minute long match or investigate multiple matches in a player's history.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20192 votes

They already do have a couple dozen people. Actually, last I heard from a friend that works in their support department, they number over 100. Furthermore, I guarantee you that your calls are generally simple resolutions - you don't have to watch a 40 minute long match or investigate multiple matches in a player's history.

Good to know there is a large department dedicated to issues like this... ya hiring ?

They already do have a couple dozen people. Actually, last I heard from a friend that works in their support department, they number over 100. Furthermore, I guarantee you that your calls are generally simple resolutions - you don't have to watch a 40 minute long match or investigate multiple matches in a player's history.

I like to believe jobs are subjectively difficult in their own manner. But when you put it that way, I agree I definitely don't see myself on a single call for 40 minutes(unless I put them on hold because of some bureaucratic problem and take care of someone else).

FrozenFitzgeraldJul 8, 20191 votes

You don't want to work for Riot. No person in the world should respect anyone who works for Riot support. Let me tell you a little story.

I have a stalker. My stalker has created well over 200 accounts in order to harass me and my friends. Usually including death threats, and things of incredibly personal nature. I have sent in support tickets about this. To quote the most recent one, they personally describe his actions as "beyond anything we've ever seen."

They refuse to ID ban him. They tell me to contact Riot devs on the boards, as if that has any chance of working. They refuse to do so much as try to contact any other department besides support. In fact, they refuse to ban his accounts at all, even on a one by one basis. Accounts that contain death threats. Again, I remind you that they themselves describe this as "beyond anything we've ever seen." But yet they also tell me that even an IP ban, not so far as an ID ban, is only used in, again I quote "extreme cases."

In fact, more than that, I have had a support agent instead threaten ME with an ID ban.

Riot support is a joke. You shouldn't want to work there if you want to maintain any self-respect.

Imperial PandaaJul 8, 20195 votes

So, you seem to not understand the concept of an ID ban.

First lets go ahead and explain why an IP ban is useless. IP bans are incredible easy to circumvent and cause collateral damage with dorms and Computer Cafes.

An ID ban only truly works if there is a way to accurately identify someone consistently. So, lets use the previous example of Tyler1. Big name streamer. See him streaming a game of LoL? Boom easy ban. Playing games but not streaming/recording, and the punishments took longer if they got caught at all. It is safe to say some of his accounts weren't caught as one of the stipulations for the un ID ban was to submit any accounts of his for review.

So, yeah, sorry. Nothing that can easily be done for a stalker online. As for banning you, they meant just making it so you can't submit support tickets.

FrozenFitzgeraldJul 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LV4FoaqR,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-07-08T02:06:26.674+0000)

So, yeah, sorry. Nothing that can easily be done for a stalker online. As for banning you, they meant just making it so you can't submit support tickets.

That is incorrect, flat out. You seem to not understand the concept of reading. Directly quoting the support agent "This is the same kind of ban that Tyler1 received and he was unable to create new accounts because of it. To date we've only done this to a handful of Summoners because we truly do believe that reform is possible, but again, then this may be in your future."

Please continue to tell me more about my situation when you clearly have no idea what is happening in it.

Imperial PandaaJul 8, 20192 votes

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/115013815928-Understanding-ID-Bans

Kei143Jul 8, 20191 votes

Oh he created accounts.

They would just ban the accounts once they have identified him as the owner.

HoldMyPlankJul 8, 20192 votes

The only way your stalker could harass you and your friends after the first block would be due to you and your friends accepting friend requests from people you don't know. (Unless this person spans beyond the game) But honestly if you just delete friend requests you aren't expecting then you wouldn't have that problem.

CharDeeMcDennizJul 8, 20191 votes

this sounds VERY suspicious

Telephone BoothJul 9, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You don't want to work for Riot. No person in the world should respect anyone who works for Riot support. Let me tell you a little story.

I have a stalker. My stalker has created well over 200 accounts in order to harass me and my friends. Usually including death threats, and things of incredibly personal nature. I have sent in support tickets about this. To quote the most recent one, they personally describe his actions as "beyond anything we've ever seen."

They refuse to ID ban him. They tell me to contact Riot devs on the boards, as if that has any chance of working. They refuse to do so much as try to contact any other department besides support. In fact, they refuse to ban his accounts at all, even on a one by one basis. Accounts that contain death threats. Again, I remind you that they themselves describe this as "beyond anything we've ever seen." But yet they also tell me that even an IP ban, not so far as an ID ban, is only used in, again I quote "extreme cases."

In fact, more than that, I have had a support agent instead threaten ME with an ID ban.

Riot support is a joke. You shouldn't want to work there if you want to maintain any self-respect.

Sounds legit.

Telephone BoothJul 9, 20191 votes

I think just by saying you think you could tackle hundreds of cases in one day, you lose trust and no one would want you to be the judge. You plan on just wizzing through all these cases as fast as possible? Lol.