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The real reason league is toxic. and why no amount of carrot and stick will fix it

scazzman··4 votes·1,231 views

League is split into several camps. and riot is only acknowledging a few of them. and some are more toxic than others. but it all stems from the fact they dislike each other and/or dont feel heard. and riot refuses to deal with them. and just throws out bans when people get enough valid reports

The "back in my day" crowd : season 1/2 vets mostly adults many of whom grew up in an age in gaming where flaming was considered ok as long as you werent shouting kys or racial slurs and even trolling was tolerated as long as you didnt do it too much. "see leeroy jenkins" and because of this fact. many loyal players have had to have one or more accounts permabanned due to the strike system when in the previous system probably wouldnt have even gotten a chat restriction simply because they are unable to adjust to new norms.

the safe spacers : people who believe anything negative or even simply not positive. should be simply eliminated. and shun reform in favor of zero tolerance policies strike systems. and witch hunts. sadly. riot agrees with them just not publicly

the tweenies: 12 year old preteens who honestly have no business playing a game for adults. grow up in an age where participation trophies are the norm. think its fun just to f*ck with people because of thier own insecurities and that intentionally ruining someone's free time is ok because "hey its a video game. these people need a life" even if they dont do it every game. theyre unpredictible. and if they dont troll often enough they might not even be punished

the competitors. everything is a competition. they dont play the game to lose. whether or not they're actually good is another story. are prone to raging due to trolls or even just bad players because in their mind its not thier skill holding them back. love the game very much but end up either being cast out or permabanned due to the inability to stop themselves from typing

the cultists : people who accept anything riot says as gospel. regardless of whether they actually agree with it personally.

35 Comments

proud and bronze6 votes

the toxicity is largely because the game itself is toxic.

snowballing. your allies directly control how strong your opponents are. this naturally creates resentment towards your allies when they are are not playing well. they are making your enemies into unstoppable gods who will eventually stomp you into the ground.

leaverbuster. you cant leave. no matter what. many games last over 40 mins and you are locked in with no way out. that means those times when the game is not fun and you are frustrated and upset, you cant just shut it off and take a break. you are stuck. you are forced to be in that terrible situation for the duration. i cant imagine a more toxic situation to be in.

riot has said toxicity is contagious and i believe it is true. and the toxicity of their own game spreads to the players every day.

Suntv4 votes

[{quoted}](name=proud and bronze,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KV57VryY,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-05-29T06:16:52.475+0000)

the toxicity is because the game itself is toxic.

snowballing. your allies directly control how strong your opponents are. this naturally creates resentment towards your allies when they are are not playing well. they are making your enemies into unstoppable gods who will eventually stomp you into the ground.

leaverbuster. you cant leave. no matter what. many games last over 40 mins and you are locked in with no way out. that means those times when the game is not fun and you are frustrated and upset, you cant just shut it off and take a break. you are stuck. you are forced to be in that terrible situation for the duration. i cant imagine a more toxic situation to be in.

riot has said toxicity is contagious and i believe it is true. and the toxicity of their own game spreads to the players every day.

This so true that it's highly funny. Had me laughing out loud. I 100% agree with this argument.

GaleWinUnleashed5 votes

I don't seem to fit into any of those. I suppose I'm closest to the so-called "safe spacers" in that I have little to no sympathy for those that find themselves punished for their behavior. All you have to do to never ever be punished is not be an asshole to other human beings. It takes no effort whatsoever. Insults, raging, flaming, whatever; all of it is completely pointless and a waste of energy.

fuktihsgame1 votes

{quoted}

I don't seem to fit into any of those. I suppose I'm closest to the so-called "safe spacers" in that I have little to no sympathy for those that find themselves punished for their behavior. All you have to do to never ever be punished is not be an asshole to other human beings. It takes no effort whatsoever. Insults, raging, flaming, whatever; all of it is completely pointless and a waste of energy.

and let the trolls win. yes thats what people that contribute to the problem say . ignore the person who made a bot and is trolling your game. or is just trolling in general because they are masochist's. that like making other people tilt.

SmokedAlmonds5 votes

Noone is suggesting that you pretend they don't exist. You submit a detailed report at the end of the game.

Raging at a troll does nothing to prevent them from winning. They already won by existing. Their goal is to ruin the game for people and there is nothing someone else can say to prevent that once they have made that decision. The only way a troll loses is if they get punished and nothing you say to them has any impact on that.

The guy who is trying to ruin the game for you is not doing it because some random person never raged at him. That rage is what he wants and raging at him is just validating his efforts, feeding the troll.

fuktihsgame1 votes

{quoted}

Noone is suggesting that you pretend they don't exist. You submit a detailed report at the end of the game.

Raging at a troll does nothing to prevent them from winning. They already won by existing. Their goal is to ruin the game for people and there is nothing someone else can say to prevent that once they have made that decision. The only way a troll loses is if they get punished and nothing you say to them has any impact on that.

The guy who is trying to ruin the game for you is not doing it because some random person never raged at him. That rage is what he wants and raging at him is just validating his efforts, feeding the troll.

exactly so why should the people flaming get in trouble when their is a troll in the group. you expect people to just sit through 30-45 minutes of hell and not say anthing is like sitting through someone in your face shit talking your family for the same amount of time. you can only hold for so long.

scazzman1 votes

{quoted}

exactly so why should the people flaming get in trouble when their is a troll in the group. you expect people to just sit through 30-45 minutes of hell and not say anthing is like sitting through someone in your face shit talking your family for the same amount of time. you can only hold for so long.

pretty much this. its not about making them stop. its about protecting your dignity

SmokedAlmonds8 votes

There is nothing dignified about raging at a stranger on the internet.

SmokedAlmonds5 votes

They should get in trouble because ragers are also a problem. Ragers don't fix anything about the troll situation except that now everyone has a troll and a rager in their game now. It is all down side no upside. It is a situation where doing nothing is the best solution and doing anything is more likely to escalate things than anything else.

So, you can rage at them and pile on to the problem, or you can play out the game as best you can and report them at the end and be a part of the solution.

RampageRafshan2 votes

{quoted}

and let the trolls win. yes thats what people that contribute to the problem say . ignore the person who made a bot and is trolling your game. or is just trolling in general because they are masochist's. that like making other people tilt.

People like them make me angry and furious. They will troll and feed and report you for being toxic. Look at the utter BS coming from his mouth. He talks about wasting time when our games get ruined after you try and give your all to win for team is not acknowledged or respected by some guy like him who goes around saying "its just a game" and goes 0/20. These guys need to stop playing lol and go play Barbee instead. I dont have any problem with someone raging at me or flaming me if I'm getting carried by him or her.

fuktihsgame1 votes

{quoted}

People like them make me angry and furious. They will troll and feed and report you for being toxic. Look at the utter BS coming from his mouth. He talks about wasting time when our games get ruined after you try and give your all to win for team is not acknowledged or respected by some guy like him who goes around saying "its just a game" and goes 0/20. These guys need to stop playing lol and go play Barbee instead. I dont have any problem with someone raging at me or flaming me if I'm getting carried by him

exactly. like imagine try to win this game giving it not only all your best. your mental fortitude. your energy. time. for 50 minutes you are trying.. with these trolls that is 20/0 and say its just a game get over it.. youll never get that hr back or everything else for that matter that you just put into that game.. and thats just 1 game.. imagine playing for 5 years.

Dominick Destine2 votes

{quoted}

The "back in my day" crowd : season 1/2 vets mostly adults many of whom grew up in an age in gaming where flaming was considered ok as long as you werent shouting kys or racial slurs and even trolling was tolerated as long as you didnt do it too much.

This.

I remember SO many Wukong jokes when Lucian was announced...

the safe spacers : people who believe anything negative or even simply not positive. should be simply eliminated. and shun reform in favor of zero tolerance policies strike systems. and witch hunts. sadly. riot agrees with them just not publicly

Holy shit, this. Riot went from being "one of us (People who play video games)" to straight up leftists/feminists. What happened to the days when you'd queue up for solo and have a Rioter on your team join you in talking trash to the enemy team?

I remember being on the same team as that one Rioter that always picked Ionia Yi... and also playing with that one chick that hooked with that one Riot guy... uhh.... pudding? I don't remember... point is. recently whenever I have a Rioter on my team (rarely) they're always very quiet and almost seem like bots rather than people.

the competitors. everything is a competition. they dont play the game to lose. whether or not they're actually good is another story. are prone to raging due to trolls or even just bad players because in their mind its not thier skill holding them back. love the game very much but end up either being cast out or permabanned due to the inability to stop themselves from typing

This group was part of the first group mentioned.

Just that they were on the fringe.

Good post and good breakdown of groups.... except I would have referred to "the safe spacers' as tumblrinas and feminists.

I wish Riot stopped catering to the SJWs..

Firu1 votes

You are incorrectly and insultingly using the word feminist. Further, it makes you look very ignorant, Dominick Destine. This is an example of your frustration resulting in rude behavior by you. Each of those terms you used in your response, you meant to use in a derogatory manner.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

You are incorrectly and insultingly using the word feminist.

No I did not. You are (Flimsily) using it incorrectly.

Further, it makes you look very ignorant, Dominick Destine. This is an example of your frustration resulting in rude behavior by you. Each of those terms you used in your response, you meant to use in a derogatory manner.

Now you're just whining.

The original guy was 100% correct. Spot-on.

scazzman2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KV57VryY,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-05-29T17:52:31.893+0000)

No I did not. You are (Flimsily) using it incorrectly.

Now you're just whining.

The original guy was 100% correct. Spot-on.

no i actually agree that you're incorrectly using the word. lol has nothing to do with women's rights

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

women's rights

Explain to me how the drawing of a non-existent cartoon woman having large breasts is somehow affecting the legal status of the female sex in the United States. Take your time.

Now, that being said; Explain to me how two guys talking trash over an internet video game is somehow affecting significant legislation in parliament in the United States that "oppresses" women.

Having read both of those; Explain to me how your argument isn't complete jibbering nonsense. First guy was right, you and the other guy are completely wrong.... "Hurt Feelings" is not an argument. The people demanding "safe spaces" should be met with howling, derisive laughter at their expense.

This isn't Syria, Iran or Saudi Arabia, you don't need a "safe space". You are not a child (At least I think you're over 18...)

scazzman3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KV57VryY,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-29T20:09:24.013+0000)

Explain to me how the drawing of a non-existent cartoon woman having large breasts is somehow affecting the legal status of the female sex in the United States. Take your time.

Now, that being said; Explain to me how two guys talking trash over an internet video game is somehow affecting significant legislation in parliament in the United States that "oppresses" women.

Having read both of those; Explain to me how your argument isn't complete jibbering nonsense.

it doesnt. which is why you should stop using feminism as an insult when you either dont know or dont care about it's actual meaning. it just makes you look like a bigot.

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

I was ~ 12 playing the first iteration of Runescape. The number one thing I know about online gaming, don't take it serious. All games are a time and money dump. Despite this, I play a lot and spent a lot.

Flaming was never okay, there wasn't systems in place for detection or expulsion. A person would have to find their own way to avoid it.

There are some people who are so victim-personality that they segregate even among themselves. "Safe-space" is how I easily identify these people. I immediately leave them alone, because they are the anti-thesis of your typical white fboy. There is no reasoning with these people.

This game is not just for adults.

I play games to have fun. If someone wants to try to harass me, they're going to have a tough time. Typically, these people want to tell me everything they want me to do. Maybe that's trolling to have fun at their expense, but I've got to have something.

Sheeple are annoying to me. People who have no real input, opinion, and merely want to suckle. Like a ^this post. I have my own opinion and input. And there it is!

fuktihsgame1 votes

damn man hit the nail on the head. kudos

fuktihsgame1 votes

runescape cant really relate. flaming comes after the tilt which probably happens because of trolls. and if you're ok with trolls then you're part of the problem. muting people isn't a solution its a problem. and suckle what are you talking about?

Kei1431 votes

{quoted}

the competitors. everything is a competition. they dont play the game to lose. whether or not they're actually good is another story. are prone to raging due to trolls or even just bad players because in their mind its not thier skill holding them back. love the game very much but end up either being cast out or permabanned due to the inability to stop themselves from typing

this is the only part that is the action based root cause. the rest are just different personalities / age groups reacting to bad plays.

I define bad plays as "something you don't agree with". Whether that is being lesser skilled, intentional feeding for the sake of loosing ELO, or AFKing cos something came up.

Firu1 votes

A majority of the support for this thread is coming from those who have posted about being temp or permanently banned in their own threads. Further, they are often very rude/toxic in their comments and responses on the boards.

Don't let these type of people reinforce the negative attitude you are feeling, Scazzman.

I know you're frustrated. You post many times on the boards about your ideas for a solution. I appreciate that effort. What I don't appreciate is what appears to be your growing hostility to those who don't agree with you.

Take time to try to productively think about and articulate what you are feeling. Using the language and tone that you do in this post already alienated people. That's not your intent, is it? You can state everything you said here in a more neutral way that could lead to a discussion and not cater to group of people.

fuktihsgame1 votes

{quoted}

A majority of the support for this thread is coming from those who have posted about being temp or permanently banned in their own threads. Further, they are often very rude/toxic in their comments and responses on the boards.

Don't let these type of people reinforce the negative attitude you are feeling, Scazzman.

I know you're frustrated. You post many times on the boards about your ideas for a solution. I appreciate that effort. What I don't appreciate is what appears to be your growing hostility to those who don't agree with you.

Take time to try to productively think about and articulate what you are feeling. Using the language and tone that you do in this post already alienated people. That's not your intent, is it? You can state everything you said here in a more neutral way that could lead to a discussion and not cater to group of people.

this guy has posted because he wanted answers and recognition. are you saying that people that have posted about their own problems with the game can not post on other threads. because now you sound fascist. our comments are just as valid as yours. we just arent some "blind faith" riot fan boys.

Firu1 votes

It is not that you posted about your problems or that your can't have your own opinions. It's the manner in which you do so.

Do you think the general tone of the majority your comments helps or hurts the various points you try to make with your posts? You often result to insulting people who disagree with you, a brief look at your post history shows that.

fuktihsgame1 votes

{quoted}

It is not that you posted about your problems or that your can't have your own opinions. It's the manner in which you do so.

Do you think the general tone of the majority your comments helps or hurts the various points you try to make with your posts? You often result to insulting people who disagree with you, a brief look at your post history shows that.

i insult no one a brief look thru my history would show. you just try and undermine anyone with an opposite opinion then you firu your all over the boards. i express my valid points on why riot has gone to shit. tho thats diff. but i wouldnt expect riot fan boys to be able to see otherwise

Firu1 votes

I assume then that you use "riot fanboys" as a neutral term and not in a way to demean anyone?

You say I try to undermine people but you are the one using such language and terms. Not me.

I describe your behavior as often rude because that is how I perceive it given your tone and the words you use.

If you read my comments, I often express that I understand why people get frustrated. I get frustrated at the game to, at times. It's toxic responses to that frustration that I take issue with.

fuktihsgame1 votes

so i use a neutral word to describe you and you still perceive it as rude.. it seems like you have a a problem dude. if a neutral word is hurting your feeling man.

Firu1 votes

"Blind faith fan boy" doesn't seem neutral to me, true. Nor do I think it was your intent for it to be neutral.

scazzman2 votes

{quoted}

"Blind faith fan boy" doesn't seem neutral to me, true. Nor do I think it was your intent for it to be neutral.

i appreciate your ability to be civil about disagreeing with me. and my hostility isnt about people who disagree. its about people who disagree and attempt to derail my discussions with snarky memes, downvote spam, and sarcasm for the people who actually agree because i have unpopular opinions

Firu1 votes

I try to respond to those people (the ones who jump out to mock someone who got banned without offering anything constructive) too, when I can. Unfortunately, I do cater most of my typed responses to the situations that interest me most. That is, the people who are posting about things that happen in-game vs. on the boards.

For those who just act rude like you mentioned, I almost always downvote those because I think they are also unproductive.

EMeta1 votes

Your title and comment don't seem to match. Yes, different players have different backgrounds. You laid those out pretty well. But players do change. Riot has put a lot of resources into this and has actually made players flame less. There are some pretty clear metrics backing this up. Most players who get warnings don't get them again. In my own experience, there are 95% fewer intentional feeders than 4 years ago, and about 2/3rds fewer raging flamers. Is it great yet? No. Is it a lot more fun because of the changes made? Heck yeah. And a lot of these changes have been from players learning to keep their frustrations to themselves so they don't snowball.

fuktihsgame1 votes

{quoted}

Your title and comment don't seem to match. Yes, different players have different backgrounds. You laid those out pretty well. But players do change. Riot has put a lot of resources into this and has actually made players flame less. There are some pretty clear metrics backing this up. Most players who get warnings don't get them again. In my own experience, there are 95% fewer intentional feeders than 4 years ago, and about 2/3rds fewer raging flamers. Is it great yet? No. Is it a lot more fun because of the changes made? Heck yeah. And a lot of these changes have been from players learning to keep their frustrations to themselves so they don't snowball.

where do you get such precise numbers. 95% less. bots and feeders have never been higher. with dynamic que there are groups of 4 or 3 people whos sole purpose is to troll promos and ranked. ive played for a long time. and its never been higher than what it is now. especially now that the game is "popular".

Awkward Couch1 votes

I think the reason why no amount of carrot or stick will fix toxicity in any game (including LOL) is because in competition, people are generally toxic. I played football for 6 years before I finally stopped, and in that time, every single game there were people yelling at each other. When placed in a competitive environment, people tend to get aggressive, especially males (which makes up a majority of the LOL population). Shit I had a friend punch a dent in his truck (he was pretty drunk at the time) because he lost a game of CSGO that one of his teammates choked. This has nothing to do with "safe spaces" or "the back in my day crowd" (of which I am one of with no strikes to the only account I've ever made), League is a game, and because of the competitive nature people are going to be toxic.

scazzman2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Awkward Couch,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KV57VryY,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-05-31T07:10:42.586+0000)

I think the reason why no amount of carrot or stick will fix toxicity in any game (including LOL) is because in competition, people are generally toxic. I played football for 6 years before I finally stopped, and in that time, every single game there were people yelling at each other. When placed in a competitive environment, people tend to get aggressive, especially males (which makes up a majority of the LOL population). Shit I had a friend punch a dent in his truck (he was pretty drunk at the time) because he lost a game of CSGO that one of his teammates choked. This has nothing to do with "safe spaces" or "the back in my day crowd" (of which I am one of with no strikes to the only account I've ever made), League is a game, and because of the competitive nature people are going to be toxic.

this too. as well as the fact that you are trapped for 20 minutes minimum and cant simply "walk away" and there's no referee in game stopping people from being toxic. only a report button after the fact

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