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What Benefit Does Toxicity Have?

Umbral Regent·8/7/2018, 12:02:54 AM·7 votes·4,698 views

After glancing through a recent thread where someone asked why toxicity is bad, I humored responding to that thread - but felt that it wouldn't avail much in the way of discussion, partly due to much of the discussion already having been had (with the post sitting at 72 responses at the time of writing), and partly due to feeling that what I want to discuss deserves its own, separate thread.

The idea behind this thread is partially that I feel that the question of "why is toxicity bad" is both pretty well-answered at this point, and also probably a poor framing of the question. People can ask why toxicity is bad, but I feel like there's a lack of understanding why it's bad without knowing what good (if any) it does. So, I figured it would be good to flip the script and ask the people who defend toxicity - what benefit does it have?

Just a couple notes; first and foremost, in no way do I intend to defend toxicity with this thread, and I hope I've established already over previous responses that I am pretty well against toxicity in general. This thread is more for the sake of allowing a more complete understanding to be had regarding toxicity than anything else. Second; I'm gonna impose three rules real quick to make sure the discussion stays true enough to the intent:

  1. Do not offer irrelevant arguments on either side; no "you can just mute them", no statements about sensitivity, etc.
  2. For those who, like myself, would argue against toxicity, you are allowed to mention the negative aspects of Toxicity, but when you do, please ask those you're arguing/discussing with - "Do the positives outweigh the negatives" - that is the very least I can ask for when the discussion may inevitably stray slightly from the main intent.
  3. This plays into rule 1, but all the same; We do not bring up rank or arguments from people of varying ranks. It doesn't matter if ImAQTPie or WildTurtle or whomever else says "toxicity is good" - I want personal responses. I want everyone who joins this discussion to think about their views on toxicity, and speak from there - not from statements that align with your thinking.

Those personal rules aside, do remember to stay in line with the Boards Universal Rules - and, if any of the Boards Moderators wishes to consider any of my personal rules for this thread void (whether for the sake of discussion or for the rules themselves potentially not aligning with the Universal Rules), they are free to say so, and I will defer to that verdict.

EDIT: It has come to my attention that I've failed just a little bit in clarity regarding toxicity and what I mean of it for this discussion, so, with that in mind, allow me to clear that up;

For the sake of this discussion, toxicity is any deliberate and excessive negative behaviors meant to ruin the game for other players. Things like excessive/hardcore flame, trolling, intentional feeding, hate speech, and excessive negativity and defeatism. The general idea is that toxicity is the worst of bad behaviors.

So, with that all said, I will refer to the title as the jumping-off point for this discussion. I'm interested to see if we can't better understand toxicity through a different angle. So, to those who argue for or defend toxicity, I ask you earnestly; what benefit is there to toxicity? And for those who don't - can you think of any potential benefits?

39 Comments

ModThe Djinn8/7/2018, 12:16:26 AM5 votes

So this may surprise people who like to think I'm Mr. Anti-Toxicity, but I think there are people for whom toxicity really improves the game.

  • It lets people vent in-game frustrations.
  • It lets people have an outlet for pent-up emotions from other, out-of-game issues, possibly in a less destructive manner.
  • It helps some people revel in their victory or their comebacks more.

There's a catch though -- all of this comes at a cost to other individuals, and this is why you will occasionally see me recommend OTHER outlets for this behavior. This sort of venting and/or domineering behavior often just feels good to get out there, whether or not the opponent actually sees it. As a result, you won't see me telling people NOT to have these emotions, but rather to find places OTHER than in-game chat to express them. Shout at your computer. Voicechat a friend. /whisper someone you trust to not report you. Start a stream and yell into the mic.

It is only when your expressing yourself comes at the expense of another player's enjoyment that you have crossed the line into unacceptable toxicity. If the act of putting someone else down where others in the game can see it is what makes you feel good, you do not belong in this community.

The Whamboozler8/8/2018, 6:41:54 AM3 votes

The primary benefit of toxicity for most people is that it lets them vent their anger over any and everything over other people, relieving their emotional stress and preserving their egos by letting them insinuate that no matter how badly they are doing other people are worse/more toxic/assholes/cheating/etc.

In short... it's what jerks do to feel better about themselves at the expense of others because they're self-centered twats.

Sektah8/7/2018, 12:57:01 AM3 votes

Theres a right and a wrong way to flame, calling somebody a retard and telling them to kill themselves because they didn't ping MIA is not constructive at all. Although giving somebody shit for going into a fight 1v5 is understandable, like "omg idiot, why would u go in?" thats a little more understandable and not as harsh, and makes the person remember the next time they contemplate going in 1v5. Here is my opinion on the few positives to flaming (WITH A PURPOSE)

-Lets out balled-up anger to the player who made a mistake
-Makes the player who messed up be more careful when making decisions -Lets the player at fault know that their team dosent support a play/decision/...etc -un-tilts yourself

Id also just like to mention that i have never been penalized by any way for flaming or toxic behavior in my 5 years of playing league, encase you were thinking i was some toxic fuckhead in all my games and i was just making excuses for my actions.

Psaion8/8/2018, 11:18:22 AM2 votes

Do people really think that purposefully riling someone up by flaming has absolutely no effect on gameplay? If you are mad, you will make decisions quite differently. Some players might try to make big risky plays to prove themselves as better, some might be spiteful and choose not to help a teammate who flamed them when they have the opportunity to hurt them in some way small or otherwise. I don't think these are typically the sort of things that will win or lose games, but they definitely affect them and when people start going back and forth it gets more and more pronounced. I seriously doubt anybody here has gone completely without playing a game that was decided by their teammates arguing back and forth.

Aside from that, I would like it explained to me how flaming someone makes them think twice about their mistake and do better. If a friend did that to me, I would seriously reconsider my plays and how I am playing, but if a stranger flamed me I would be inclined to think they are just being a feminine hygiene product and disregard what they are saying. The same goes for pretty much any advice in any situation. From someone you know, it can be helpful for someone to be harsh to you. From a stranger, unsolicited advice is almost always annoying, offensive, and immediately disregarded.

All that being said, if someone really says something that upsets me, I can easily ignore them with a mute and I do my damnedest to continue treating them well as far as gameplay goes for the rest of the match. Usually before a mute, I will say something along the lines of "You are being super helpful right now" or "That's really constructive, thank you" and that usually gets the point across. I have several people on my friends list who's first interaction with me was them flaming me in some way or another.

As far as gameplay toxicity goes, I think we are all familiar with the feeling of a game being out of our control and feeling helpless because of it. Sometimes you feel that way because of something that happens in real life. When someone does something like base race or int or any other seemingly inherently negative thing like that, it can be cathartic for them that they are doing something that makes them feel like they actually have control over something. Some people just want to watch the world burn, true, but I believe there is usually more motivation for someone than wanton malice or destruction and I try to have empathy to that degree.

Phoenixdust8/7/2018, 11:19:02 AM2 votes

Okay, so first of all this definition if toxicity is wrong, since it incorporates two TOTALLY different kind of behaviors, which can not even be written in the same book.

These 2 things are:

  • chat toxicity
  • gameplay toxicity

So Chat toxicity: You flame, and basically just write bad things in chat. Pro:

  • You just let out some steam, just like when you curse when you hit your toe in a furniture.
  • Has literally zero gameplay effect.
  • It's not really a pro, but this is kinda natural behavior to curse at somebody who intentionally ruins your fun. (This is only reasonable if you flame a troll, but i have never seen a good player gettin' flamed) Con:
  • You will get banned. (But really, this is the only one....)

And the gameplay toxicity: Pro:

  • You let out some steam just as with flaming.
  • Is almost never punished. Con:
  • You almost surely lose the game (huge gameplay effect)
  • You will ruin the game for your teammates

And also one more difference. Trolls/inters never want to win the game, while flamers usually get upset because they take the game serious and want to win it, while somebody ruins it for them. And the point of a competitive game should be winning. (I mostly play ranked.)

YerroFever8/8/2018, 5:28:16 AM2 votes

I guess the one good thing about toxicity is that for those who are self aware, it's an indicator that one needs better coping mechanisms and could be a step towards improving not only your online life, but your real life as well, if you want to reform. Addressing one's online toxicity and learning better coping mechanisms for online rage could also be applied to offline rage as well and may improve someone's quality of life IRL.

Ðahyun8/8/2018, 4:35:51 AM1 votes

Its not really why its good to be toxic but more why we are toxic. I feel that most toxic people are toxic because we deal with brainless idiots on the daily. Not everyone can be calm and collected, so most will argue.

The Highest Noon8/7/2018, 1:01:12 AM1 votes

Toxicity is subjective and is just Riot's way to blanket the overall "Haha everyone should enjoy the game" mentality, which just isn't realistic.

So when you say "toxicity" do you mean insults, flaming, criticism, feeding, lane/champ sniping, intentionally bad gameplay, "report" signalors, or overall selfish players?

I'm of the "punished for criticism" camp, because you're not supposed to tell someone to ward more, or to gank your overextending enemy, or to focus objectives, because it's toxic to criticize someone's terrible gameplay.

That out of the way, here's my question. Why is criticising someone's gameplay wrong? Especially when you actually do offer construction?

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

NekoniClaws8/7/2018, 10:54:20 AM1 votes

I upvoted. I can't give you a single reason, but it's a great discussion.

Warlord Rhinark8/7/2018, 11:20:01 AM1 votes

Toxicity is in almost all forms and shapes bad, but I'm kind of sad that friendly banter isn't allowed by proxy.