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Does League of Legends Use The Right Approach In Reforming Players?

Best Ekko NA··19 votes·10,468 views

People with Alcohol abuse problems, they go to AA. People with Drug addictions go to hospitals and rehab.

Why not create an unsportsmanlike rehabilitation mode for League of Legends?

This could be one or more game session(s) required to be played out by players when they are punished by the system (as opposed to being chat restricted) which teaches them how to be sportsmanlike and the importance of doing so.

It's been studied and proven that punishment usually leads to further crime does not prevent further crime. When someone is put in Jail or Prison, they're even more likely to end up back there after that point. When looking at League, I'd say it's highly likely the same principle applies. League of Legends only uses punishment to correct player behaviors, the same method proven to be the least effective at solving the problem. That is a huge part of why I personally feel that from the beginning of time, all of the "Reform" and "Player Behavior" research that has been done for League of Legends is vastly inaccurate. Riot always points to these for their reasoning, but it's difficult [for me personally] to accept due to being defective at the very core.

Take for example the system in place currently for loot. Riot attempts giving players -Skinner Boxes- so to speak (if you do not know what that means look up B.F. Skinner on Google), and random keys, as a reward for players. The issue from here however is, the reward is more associated with leveling and in-game activity than behavior. Due to this, when a players loses such a reward, it often feels as though there really is no incentive to improve as a player and try to get that back.

  • Random RNG (Keys) --> Reward,
  • Good In-Game Play --> Reward,
  • Leveling --> Reward,
  • Bad Behavior --> Punishment / Lose Reward,
  • Good Behavior --> Nothing.

This system is too intermingled with others already in place, and it's not powerful enough to stimulate someone to take it seriously and improve their behaviors. In order to actually make a working system, these two things need separated completely. There are a lot of different ways this could be achieved through what's already in place with the Honor levels (it's not all bad), but first it has to start with promoting good behavior for players who don't have anything.

When someone is Honor level 0, or 1, whatever it is, they do not have any "reward" even when they are following a good behavior pattern. The thought really turns too "I'm already at rock bottom, it can't get any worse", instead of "Good things happen when I improve my behavior!". It's a long ways back up to Honor level 2. Even getting back up there, nothing good is happening when you get there, so naturally everything after that point is taken for granted. Players can't feel the power of the work and effort at play reaching milestones, it's all just numbers on a screen with little meaning (outside of a different icon on the screen). Some players do feel good about being Honor Level 5, but did they really feel like they were rewarded for working hard? Or perhaps did it feel more a matter of grinding out a lot of games -- with the same behavior they've always had while playing League?

There are just not enough visible signs which help a player understand when they're on the right track, and not any incentives to keep them going. The RNG from Keys + Boxes should be removed completely. Players shouldn't be rewarded for RNG, they should be rewarded for good sportsmanship. The Flair idea for receiving honor is cool and on the correct track, but this should also be extended even further. Players who receive an exceptional amount of honor in any given game (3+ let's say), should be given the keys and/or boxes (instead of randomly).

A lot of games use V.I.P. systems that are pay to win. Why does such a method keep people buying? It works because bigger is better right? The Honor System in League of Legends is essentially a very poor V.I.P. system. As a player, everything is lost when "de-ranking" and it doesn't impact much when reaching high levels (4/5). In other games, having a high level unlocks great features such as EXP Boosts and Shops, but in League -- Uh... Well... You might get a Flair if your teammates are feeling generous, and uh... There's some RNG chance you can get a RNG reward? occasionally you get a small reward?

I'm sure the point can be understood, there needs to be something impactful from actually having a high honor level so that players feel like they absolutely must have it. That might include getting more EXP and Blue Essence for matches with every Honor level, to unlocking different shops where items unique to each shop, can be purchased with both real money and Blue Essence.

At any rate, for now I'm hungry, tired, and can't keep my thoughts in one place so I'm going to cut this off here.

The systems in place do not feel impactful (to me), and I'm not so sure that they even accomplish anything. Is exiling players through bans, instead of giving them better incentives for good behavior, really the right way of doing things? Is there a better way? I personally believe there still is a lot of room for improvement in the Honor system and the punishment systems, but perhaps there is something that I'm missing.

Who knows? :p

43 Comments

HalcyonDweller13 votes

I think that league of legends does not take the right approach. They could do it better.

  • There should be 24-hour temporary bans that don't count against peoples' records, to give people who tilt severely a time out, as a chance to cool off.
  • The system should implement stealth-mutes, where it detects abusive statements when they are entered into chat and automatically hides them from fellow players. This prevents the whole problem of a player raging at another player and causing that player to get offended and everything devolving into a fight. Or maybe it would work to give players each their own version of this to run that only hides stuff that they tend to overreact to, thus preventing fights without trying to generalize players.

[{quoted}](name=Best Ekko NA,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KEE3J2xR,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-11T16:21:33.066+0000)

People with Alcohol abuse problems, they go to AA. People with Drug addictions go to hospitals and rehab.

Why not create an unsportsmanlike rehabilitation mode for League of Legends?

This could be one or more game session(s) required to be played out by players when they are punished by the system (as opposed to being chat restricted) which teaches them how to be sportsmanlike and the importance of doing so.

This is a fantastic idea. I imagine they could make use of AIs like Elon Musk's DOTA AI to fill the spots on the player's team and provide test cases of various situations in-game for the player to practice keeping their cool.

It's been studied and proven that punishment usually leads to further crime. When someone is put in Jail or Prison, they're even more likely to end up back there after that point.

You're skipping over a huge amount of relevant information when you make these claims. There are a lot of very significant reasons why criminals in the US have high recidivism rates, most of which do not correlate to Riots Player Behavior systems. it's not a useful or relevant comparison to make.

When looking at League, I'd say it's highly likely the same principle applies. League of Legends only uses punishment to correct player behaviors, the same method proven to be the least effective at solving the problem.

This is incorrect, the honor system is a means of using rewards for positive behavior in order to shape behavior. If bans and chat restrictions are the stick, the honor system is absolutely the carrot.

That is a huge part of why I personally feel that from the beginning of time, all of the "Reform" and "Player Behavior" research that has been done for League of Legends is vastly inaccurate. Riot always points to these for their reasoning, but it's difficult [for me personally] to accept due to being defective at the very core.

Considering how much of that research went into creating both the new honor system and the recent punishment system, I beg to differ. That said, I do still think they could do a better job of things.

Take for example the system in place currently for loot. Riot attempts giving players -Skinner Boxes- so to speak (if you do not know what that means look up B.F. Skinner on Google), and random keys, as a reward for players. The issue from here however is, the reward is more associated with leveling and in-game activity than behavior. Due to this, when a players loses such a reward, it often feels as though there really is no incentive to improve as a player and try to get that back.

  • Random RNG (Keys) --> Reward,
  • Good In-Game Play --> Reward,
  • Leveling --> Reward,
  • Bad Behavior --> Punishment / Lose Reward,
  • Good Behavior --> Nothing.

Ah alright it makes more sense what you're talking about now. yeah I'm with you that the way they reward players is kind of weak.

This system is too intermingled with others already in place, and it's not powerful enough to stimulate someone to take it seriously and improve their behaviors. In order to actually make a working system, these two things need separated completely. There are a lot of different ways this could be achieved through what's already in place with the Honor levels (it's not all bad), but first it has to start with promoting good behavior for players who don't have anything.

When someone is Honor level 0, or 1, whatever it is, they do not have any "reward" even when they are following a good behavior pattern. The thought really turns too "I'm already at rock bottom, it can't get any worse", instead of "Good things happen when I improve my behavior!". It's a long ways back up to Honor level 2. Even getting back up there, nothing good is happening when you get there, so naturally everything after that point is taken for granted. Players can't feel the power of the work and effort at play reaching milestones, it's all just numbers on a screen with little meaning (outside of a different icon on the screen). Some players do feel good about being Honor Level 5, but did they really feel like they were rewarded for working hard? Or perhaps did it feel more a matter of grinding out a lot of games -- with the same behavior they've always had while playing League?

I definitely agree here, the honor system doesn't bounce back from 0 fast enough and it doesn't do enough to encourage people while they are working their way back up with honor.

There are just not enough visible signs which help a player understand when they're on the right track, and not any incentives to keep them going. The RNG from Keys + Boxes should be removed completely. Players shouldn't be rewarded for RNG, they should be rewarded for good sportsmanship. The Flair idea for receiving honor is cool and on the correct track, but this should also be extended even further. Players who receive an exceptional amount of honor in any given game (3+ let's say), should be given the keys and/or boxes (instead of randomly).

Keys being given directly is an interesting idea, but I'd be concerned about it encouraging people to form groups to farm keys. Some countermeasures would need to be put in place. Perhaps two votes from premades count as 1 vote when going to a fellow premade, so that a player has to actively try to be honorable towards all of their teammates and not just their premades in order to get points. What sorts of other ideas do you have?

A lot of games use V.I.P. systems that are pay to win. Why does such a method keep people buying? It works because bigger is better right? The Honor System in League of Legends is essentially a very poor V.I.P. system. As a player, everything is lost when "de-ranking" and it doesn't impact much when reaching high levels (4/5). In other games, having a high level unlocks great features such as EXP Boosts and Shops, but in League -- Uh... Well... You might get a Flair if your teammates are feeling generous, and uh... There's some RNG chance you can get a RNG reward?

I'm sure the point can be understood, there needs to be something impactful from actually having a high honor level so that players feel like they absolutely must have it. That might include getting more EXP and Blue Essence for matches with every Honor level, to unlocking different shops where items unique to each shop, can be purchased with both real money and Blue Essence.

Ok I see what you mean about a V.I.P. system. I think that unlocking special shops perhaps with special skins or special sales available only in those shops would be a good solution, I don't think additional EXP or Blue Essence is a viable solution, players like myself who have been playing the game for ages have all of the BE we could ever need, so it wouldn't be incentive enough to make them(us) change behavior.

At any rate, for now I'm hungry, tired, and can't keep my thoughts in one place so I'm going to cut this off here.

The systems in place do not feel impactful (to me), and I'm not so sure that they even accomplish anything. Is exiling players through bans, instead of giving them better incentives for good behavior, really the right way of doing things? Is there a better way? I personally believe there still is a lot of room for improvement in the Honor system and the punishment systems, but perhaps there is something that I'm missing.

Who knows? :p

Overall a good post, but try to keep the less analytical and more disconnected reasoning out of it, looking specifically at the crime and prison comparison.

Have my upvote and a bump. I enjoyed reading your ideas. +1

Chermorg7 votes

You have a faulty premise:

Good behavior - keys. Keys are NOT RNG anymore - once you hit honor levels they drop at a predetermined rate so long as you are logging in and playing. There is no RNG aside from your appearance because the predetermined rate is not public and it is not necessarily exactly 3 games or 72 hours or something like that.

Best Ekko NA11 votes

{quoted}

You have a faulty premise:

Good behavior - keys. Keys are NOT RNG anymore - once you hit honor levels they drop at a predetermined rate so long as you are logging in and playing. There is no RNG aside from your appearance because the predetermined rate is not public and it is not necessarily exactly 3 games or 72 hours or something like that.

Do you ever have anything positive to say?

I'm just wondering because all you do is look for faults and argue with everything and that drives me insane. Not to say you don't have a right to comment on things but I dread every last post you make everywhere on these boards.

Edit: And yes, you are right. I was not aware that keys are not RNG, but that doesn't necessarily make the entirety of the post inaccurate.. Just the part about rewarding players with RNG.

Quiet Dude5 votes

Have you ever heard a devils advocate? It's this cool thing where someone takes the opposite side to facilitate discussion. You can google it to learn more if you want. Or you can spazz out cause of some unspoken thing you have for him, do what you will.

Best Ekko NA3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quiet Dude,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KEE3J2xR,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-05-11T17:00:20.816+0000)

Have you ever heard a devils advocate? It's this cool thing where someone takes the opposite side to facilitate discussion. You can google it to learn more if you want. Or you spazz out cause of some unsaid thing you have for him, do what you will.

Well, Chermog is correct that my thought behind rewarding RNG is inaccurate if the key drops themselves are not actually RNG.

Chermorg5 votes

So, how do you propose Riot reward good behavior then? I figure that not being banned and getting free skins/champions is enough rewards.

Best Ekko NA4 votes

{quoted}

So, how do you propose Riot reward good behavior then? I figure that not being banned and getting free skins/champions is enough rewards.

I just believe it should be more black and white honestly. Even if keys aren't RNG, it wouldn't be a bad idea to add a set way to acquire them with honors instead. It's not as though you get 3-4 honors from non-pre-made teammates every game. How do you get a skin from Honor? Is it at 5? Even when at Honor 3 last season I didn't get much besides the keys that I was getting at Honor 2. lol

Maybe add "Honor Points" to spend in an Honor shop which can be unlocked might be a little better.

Chermorg4 votes

But that makes it all based on "how many people can I convince to honor me" - not based on being a good player.

Honor gives keys, which open chests, which gives you skins. That's the whole point of keys dropping from honor.

Best Ekko NA3 votes

{quoted}

But that makes it all based on "how many people can I convince to honor me" - not based on being a good player.

Honor gives keys, which open chests, which gives you skins. That's the whole point of keys dropping from honor.

Well that's basically all honor is now, since it's based off the same thing, right? Players honor you and you rank up.. Or no? Where do you draw a line between the system rewarding behavior vs rewarding another player's input about you?

Chermorg3 votes

Number of honors is less important than any valid reports. They help, but you still climb even if you're never honored.

Pika Fox1 votes

To be fair, i feel like riot should really make a big public posting more accurately describing the current honor/capsule/chest/key system, as its been changed a good bit in a relatively short time.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

{quoted}

Number of honors is less important than any valid reports. They help, but you still climb even if you're never honored.

Okay well, here's another thought -- Have a daily check-in table, which unlocks at honor level 2. Instead of making it so that "occasionally" you get rewards, all that you have to do is login or maybe even give a quest to play 1 match, to acquire the rewards for that day. At honor 3, 4, and 5 your table or quest rewards upgrade (each time).

This removes the illusion of not getting much and gives a clear understanding to the player what they are getting out of having good behavior. For example, instead of giving a key every 3 hours.. They obtain a quest daily (when at the honor level for said quest), and after completing it acquire all of the keys for that day (eight keys).

Also, I still (despite what you said about keys and skins) really believe the reward system is underwhelming. The threat of getting banned really is not an incentive for good behavior. How comfortable can someone feel knowing that ultimately the company doesn't give the slightest care in the world about them? That's like going into a store and they tell you that they don't care about your business and tell you to screw off. How would you feel about shopping there afterwards? I'm sure you'd be having some second thoughts.

The current loot system is nice, especially considering there was never anything like it before, but personally I can't recall ever getting anything I believed to be exciting or useful from it. The loot system is way too random. It's not like I can just save up B.E. and buy what I want. First I have to win the lottery, and then assuming I get lucky I can buy it, if I have enough material saved. The odds of actually getting what you want is rather low... And that's the type of reward we are talking about?

Sure it might be argued that something is indeed better than nothing, but if you don't want it or never use it.. what does it matter? Is that even a reward at that point? This is a big part of where I think the black and white comes into play. If someone is genuinely going to feel rewarded, they need to know what they're getting out of it. Getting some keys to open a chest, which might not ever net you anything useful is not exactly knowing what you are getting.

This is where I think having some type of honor store (with custom honor only skins, wards, emotes, etc) would really help.

Maybe give players a daily one time login reward of "Honor Points", like I mentioned above (instead of keys), with scaling amounts based on which honor level that player was. Then depending on your honor level, those can be used to obtain different things from an Honor Shop. Maybe level 3, you unlock 1 purchase a month and it can be a Summoner Icon or Emote. At level 4 you can buy 2 things and you unlock Ward Skins, At level 5, 3 things and you unlock Champion skins.

Something like that is a whole lot cleaner and straight forward than just giving keys occasionally.

CubanThund3r1 votes

isn't that the point of being honorable.. if being a good player was all it took all challengers would instantly have 5 honors. sure you probably meant an honorable person. but so what if you're convincing people to honor you as long as you're not asking for honors?

Saezio1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Ekko NA,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KEE3J2xR,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-11T17:16:12.593+0000)

I just believe it should be more black and white honestly. Even if keys aren't RNG, it wouldn't be a bad idea to add a set way to acquire them with honors instead. It's not as though you get 3-4 honors from non-pre-made teammates every game. How do you get a skin from Honor? Is it at 5? Even when at Honor 3 last season I didn't get much besides the keys that I was getting at Honor 2. lol

Maybe add "Honor Points" to spend in an Honor shop which can be unlocked might be a little better.

Yeah the honors we receive should be visible somewhere and there should be more bling effect like for every 100/200/1000/whatever honors you get in each department you get another banner except the generic honor level in the middle of the portrait for more than just 1 game. Right now it doesn't matter how many honors you have. Some people are on 4.2 with far less honors than others because it is not yet possible to have honor 5 I believe, if someone has honor 5 please say it so I know I am doing something wrong and there is no roadblock.

CubanThund3r1 votes

"I figure that not being banned is enough rewards" yo I would tell you something so awful but god I feel as though your brain wouldn't even understand what's wrong with this comment, but yeah not being banned from a game is a great reward.

FilDaFunk3 votes

When they type something, it should automatically be changed into positive messages for the rest of the team.

y0r1ck2 votes

%%%%%%>>>>flower %%%%%>>>>brother Kys>>>>love yourself

YourQQ3 votes

Some people do want an umoderated mode for adults: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/VPm8RGEZ-offer-an-unmoderated-mode

It's not even like everyone with a chat restriction is actually toxic. People are super sensitive to criticism and very trigger happy on reports. "ggez" supposedly can get you chat restricted. Hardly verbal abuse or anything I'd qualify as actually toxic. People can't even handle banter. I'd love an unmoderated true solo queue mode. I don't want to be in this play pen and I can handle it. Plus, it's not like I can't mute.

I'd rather have the freedom to express myself and mute when others abuse it than to be censored or reported for just having different opinions. A lot of this moderation hurts people who tryhard the most. I think it's part of why NA is a weaker region. Growth depends on criticism and that doesn't feel good but it's necessary. Punishment for speech, barring the absolute worst offenses is just anti-competitive spirit and anti-fun.

Geauxx2 votes

Very poor comparison considering AA, rehab, and hospitals don't reward you for getting better. The only "reward" you receive is the self satisfactions that only you give yourself, or someone else says "good job"

And your wording for "punishment leads to more crime" needs to be changed to "punishment doesn't deter from more crime" as those are different statements and yours is misleading considering the actual information.

Sources: https://nij.gov/five-things/pages/deterrence.aspx

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378437112002142 <-- (this is more what ifs)

Science hasn't proven anything related to punishment = more crimes because scientist cant run sufficient test to gain worthwhile knowledge. (you'd need to stuff MANY MANY different subjects with different attributes along with what crime)

Why don't people just drop their ego and not feel the need to flame everyone on a game?

Best Ekko NA2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Too Unlucky,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KEE3J2xR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-11T16:39:37.808+0000)

Very poor comparison considering AA, rehab, and hospitals don't reward you for getting better. The only "reward" you receive is the self satisfactions that only you give yourself, or someone else says "good job"

And your wording for "punishment leads to more crime" needs to be changed to "punishment doesn't deter from more crime" as those are different statements and yours is misleading considering the actual information.

Sources: https://nij.gov/five-things/pages/deterrence.aspx

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378437112002142 <-- (this is more what ifs)

Science hasn't proven anything related to punishment = more crimes because scientist cant run sufficient test to gain worthwhile knowledge. (you'd need to stuff MANY MANY different subjects with different attributes along with what crime)

Why don't people just drop their ego and not feel the need to flame everyone on a game?

In an attempt to answer this without taking all day, I believe you are just missing key connections.

  1. I am not talking about statistical science, I'm talking about Behavioral Psychology.
  2. Something like this: Punishment doesn't stop bad behaviors, Rewarding Players does.
  3. The player cannot fix the problem if they do not understand what is wrong, hence the thought for some reinforcement or explanation within the game via some type of "lesson" oriented mode with the objective of player improvement (to replace the punishment).
Geauxx1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Ekko NA,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KEE3J2xR,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-05-11T16:57:04.768+0000)

In an attempt to answer this without taking all day, I believe you are just missing key connections.

  1. I am not talking about statistical science, I'm talking about Behavioral Psychology.
  2. Something like this: Punishment doesn't stop bad behaviors, Rewarding Players does.
  3. The player cannot fix the problem if they do not understand what is wrong, hence the thought for some reinforcement or explanation within the game via some type of "lesson" oriented mode with the objective of player improvement (to replace the punishment).
  1. behavioral psychology, that would make its claims based on statistics studied so therefor you are talking about statistical science.
  2. You do get rewarded already if you don't flame, troll etc. But people started doing after the honor system came out, so they were already at fault on their own.
  3. players are given multiple chances to look at them selves, do a self evaluation and TRY to understand the problem, barely any of them try to. GUESS WHAT THO, if you somehow DID understand, you can put it into practice on a consistent basis for a couple months, you can get back honor 2 and start earning again, or if you were perma'd make a new acc and climb those rewards.
ShaolinToilet1 votes

Riot has said before that most players who get punished are only punished once and never again

Fraggleroc1 votes

{quoted}

Riot has said before that most players who get punished are only punished once and never again

After I got chat-restricted, I found that it's not worth the effort to communicate again in this game. After 8yrs of playing, it's hard but it's like I don't really care anymore. I'll just play my game.

I assume these people that got punished once have the same experience. It is not that they reformed- they simply do not care to communicate anymore. /mute all works wonders.

I've reduced myself to a permanent deaf/mute in-game. I assume those people are doing the same.

dnsup2 votes

Just a note: AA is known to be relatively ineffective.

Cynikul2 votes

{quoted}

Just a note: AA is known to be relatively ineffective.

Coming with extremely drug addicted background, I can vouch this, very low success rates.

I will add though, as cliche is this is (which the program is full of), it "Works if you work it". Probably sounds stupid to people as thats redundant, but I've seen countless people NOT work it, therefore never reap any of the rewards of it.

The people that I actually see who genuinely want it though? And "work" it to the best of their ability? I'd easily say above 95% success rate, but thats a pretty irrelevant statistic if you're just pulling out the exemplary cases. Of the "regulars" I often see, id venture to say above 70% success rate, but again thats pulling numbers. Probably, of the people that just "wander" into the rooms, i'd say 2-3% chance.

dnsup1 votes

{quoted}

Coming with extremely drug addicted background, I can vouch this, very low success rates.

I will add though, as cliche is this is (which the program is full of), it "Works if you work it". Probably sounds stupid to people as thats redundant, but I've seen countless people NOT work it, therefore never reap any of the rewards of it.

The people that I actually see who genuinely want it though? And "work" it to the best of their ability? I'd easily say above 95% success rate, but thats a pretty irrelevant statistic if you're just pulling out the exemplary cases. Of the "regulars" I often see, id venture to say above 70% success rate, but again thats pulling numbers. Probably, of the people that just "wander" into the rooms, i'd say 2-3% chance.

I agree with your observations. I think I want to add: this suggests that something external--some early lesson, some positive attitude, something other than the program--is essential to the addict's success/failure.

I don't mean to remove personal responsibility from the equation. But on the other hand, whenever we discuss the statistics of a behavior, we're already doing that implicitly. We're talking about the effects of a system on itself, not of individuals on themselves.

Edit: I think one of the phrases in one of those programs is "help me change the things I can, and accept the things I can't." That's pretty much all I mean to say here: addicts can change what they can, but that's constrained, to an extent, by the fact of being an addict.

KZ Engel2 votes

banned players will make more accounts and buy more RP. it's just business

FatedDarkly2 votes

Account are easily banned so that players have to remake their accounts and buy more things. Its a profit driven punishment system.

Mcsquzzy2 votes

We need a reported flair. Just. Big ol stamp that says I was toxic and this will go away when I get x honors from non premades

Best Vi Earth1 votes

you know i like this idea. maybe people would play better if they knew they were about to be flamed by 4 people if they didnt

Naramiel2 votes

I think the OP has a good point, and was thinking about whether there's a way to actually implement it. Here's a completely off-the-cuff idea that might or might not make sense: "Shadow Keys".

For ANY honor rank below 5 (so that people don't feel poor performance is being rewarded), players occasionally get "Shadow" key fragments. These are NOT usable immediately, but instead accumulate in your loot. They explicitly say that when you reach Honor 1/2/3/4/5, you will get access to them. This gives people a clear vision of how many keys they could be getting if they had a higher rank, and an immediate (though likely small) bonus when they do finally rank up.

I'm not sure if there are issues with this or not, but it seems like a way you could both (a) clarify that higher Honor gives more rewards, and (b) reward ranking up without it just seem like you're penalizing lower ranks.

Shukr4n1 votes

"social disturbs" let me call them this way are threated by social community with social structures payed by social taxes.

player behaviour in a private game is another thing. and yourself is the only one that can hurt yourself or save yourself.

Cynikul1 votes

Then you have honor farming, honor begging, honor trading. All of which would vastly increase if their are consistent, known and reachable milestones in place in a shop.

I get your premise of your initial argument and yeah, the AA/NA analogy was a... lets be honest, a not so good comparison, but the idea you're trying to get across does make some level of sense. As a matter of fact, I don't think we have the ideal system in place, but I also genuinely don't believe its going to improve beyond much of where its currently at. This isn't really a problem tied to this game only, its societal. You can kind of change and help morph it, which I would actually argue Riot is attempting to do, but this isn't a change that see's rapid results.

Micronova1 votes

How often do people even give honors for good sportsmanship?

Any time I've ever seen "X was the most honorable player", it was ALWAYS someone who hard-carried.

Of course, this is in part because you can only hand out one honor per game, so most people will just give it to the player who carried.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

If people give me reason to honor them for being good people then I do. If they don't then I honor who made the best plays in the game because those plays improved the game and I have nobody else to give the honor to.

Pika Fox1 votes

Does riot use the best approach? No. Riots system is a compromise so it can work and function in an automaded system. Making something that works far better takes a lot of time and resources, and riots shown over the years to always be working on making better things to try and improve the system.

Modl Ryden l1 votes

Good behavior is all you can expect from a person. It's not something that's rewarded, as all players who visits these boards wished they could be.

As something well said by a caster, paraphrasing, "A good person will tell you how good they are but people will a tell a great person that they're great."

More or less, you will be remembered for your actions not for what you tell others.

Turtles Are Okay1 votes

It's not Riot's job to reform people, regardless of the variables.

Duke Dryfocker1 votes

There is no reform. You go to "can't play for "x" long jail.

THERE IS NO REFORRRRRRMMMM......ONLY ZUUUUUULLLLLLE

Netorare1 votes

Expecting players to reform themselves and stop being toxic when the game is unbalanced af. Why would they reform themselves? what's the point, would riot finally listen to their playerbase if they do that? No, they won't. Riot can't reform the players, but the players can reform themselves.

Chewbacca Merkin1 votes

Because that becomes prisoner island.

Stupafly1 votes

"People with Alcohol abuse problems, they go to AA. People with Drug addictions go to hospitals and rehab."

Are the providers of the drugs/alcohol sending them to AA or rehab?

Colgate Gator1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Ekko NA,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KEE3J2xR,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-11T16:21:33.066+0000)

People with Alcohol abuse problems, they go to AA. People with Drug addictions go to hospitals and rehab.

Because they aren't the same.

When an addict goes to AA or rehab, they're going because of themselves, family or someone who cares about them, for their own improvement in their life quality. Here, and in any other game really, it's more of a "either you shape up or you get out of here" kind of deal.

I guess they could post out anger control therapy numbers in the punishment cards if you want.

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