Is refusing to group considered greifing?

Funkin Dunkin·2/18/2019, 4:38:03 PM·2 votes·3,508 views

IE: If someone keep shoving down their lane for "objectives" but keeps dying in the process along with putting us in awkward 4v5 circumstances, is this considered griefing and therefore punishable?

6 Comments

Jo0o2/18/2019, 4:53:30 PM5 votes

I frequently play a split-push strategy. I'm at best a middling player in terms of micro-skill, so this sometimes results in me losing bad fights and dying in embarrassing fashion.

I get asked a lot of times to group, and whether or not I do so when asked depends on my read on the situation. A lot of the time, my team is wrong to ask me to group. For example, if I'm a decently-fed Yorick, I can take towers like few others and can 1v2, 1v3, etc. pretty efficiently, but in a team fight I'm a slow juggernaut with no gap closer and little utility. That doesn't, of course, mean I can guarantee the win. So if we lose after I refuse to group, I'm probably gonna have a few complainers, but I certainly wasn't trolling or griefing.

Don't forget, the other four teammates have some responsibility in supporting the split push. Creating pressure at other points in the map is helpful, hard-engaging 4v5 and blaming me is not.

Imperial Pandaa2/18/2019, 4:41:46 PM2 votes

Depends on the intent.

ChaosReyn2/18/2019, 4:54:29 PM2 votes

There's still a difference between splitpushing and running it down.

I would say it comes down to 3 things: the game state, the champion, and the mindset.

If they're raging in chat and pretty much confirming that they're actively avoiding any attempt at working with the team while they afk farm and shove, it's technically griefing. If they're taking all the objectives while the teamfight is happening and overstay trying to finish something, it's arguably just a lack of communication or a bad judgment call that led to them believing they could stay as long as they did, and therefore not griefing.

if they're running it down top lane while your team is defending your mid inhib or nexus, it's probably griefing, as they're not really attempting to make an effort to save the game...the exception to this being the backdoor or base race of trying to take their base while you hold out...but honestly that one is a huge judgment call. If they're taking out the whole top lane while you're in a 4v5 fight over dragon, it's strategy more than griefing: even if you lose the dragon fight, top lane is now wide open for anyone to walk in and take inhib for the added pressure.

Lastly, and this one is by far the biggest judgment call, cause I'm guilty of this and promise I'm not griefing...but if you're a support splitpushing while your team fights, you're probably griefing. Like I said though, there are exceptions: sometimes the tower is low enough even the support can take it, then make it to the fight in time. Or sometimes, your team is diving and you decide to stop and focus the turret while your team runs 2 towers deep wondering why they're dying and not being healed. (never dive two deep, kids.) NOT committing mass suicide with a team full of people who forget towers hurt isn't griefing.

Kei1432/18/2019, 4:55:34 PM2 votes

With the information you have provided alone, the answer is no.

If there were other factors in play, then those actions will be considered within the review.

Elite4Runner2/18/2019, 5:48:53 PM1 votes

Split pushing is a very good strategy, and someone isn't REQUIRED to group with their team.

That said, split pushing is NOT ALWAYS THE BEST STRATEGY for any given situation.

To answer your question though, .. not knowing when to split push is not griefing, and is not punishable.

However, if someone does know that they should not be split pushing, and they do so anyways, .. that would be griefing, and will likely result in feeding, .. which could be punishable.

The problem is, .. it is very difficult to prove that someone does or does not know that what they are doing is wrong. Honestly, the only way for this to be proven is if the person literally says in chat that they are intentionally throwing. Otherwise Riot would need to invest AN EXTREME amount of time in researching that player's habits, .. which they are not likely to do.

Riot does not enforce that any one player on a team is the team leader that everyone must follow.

Even if the whole team is asking that a single player join the rest of the team, that player is still allowed to make their own decision for how they play without being punished for it, as long as they are still trying to win the game.

hrooza dota 2/18/2019, 6:11:13 PM1 votes

sometimes grouping is a bad call.

when i try hard i play team fighting champion as leona and once i wondered why enemy team group for 5v5 when they have assassin/duel line up vs Leona Sejuani Volibear (we just stream rolled them even tho they won all lanes)