Boards›Player Behavior

A second chance for permanently banned people?

Talon The First··27 votes·4,642 views

Ladies and Gentleman,

Recently there has been a post in the german League of Legends boards which discussed wether permanently banned people should receive a second chance from riot or not. I decided to put the discussion right here too since here is a bigger player base. I would be happy for any comment or vote you could leave. I really like the topic and that is why I wanted to see more opinions about it. Excuse me if my english is not 100% perfect. Btw in the german boards the 'Yes, always' had 50 votes, the 'Yes, but not 4 cheaters' had 31 votes, the 'Yes, but not 4 flamers' had 6 votes, the 'Depending on the circumstances' had 30 votes (including mine), the 'Yes, but for payment' had 8 votes, the 'No, never' had 38 votes and the 'No, only in rare cases' had 11 votes. I left the last option to pick which was 'I don't know' with 5 votes. I find it quite interesting to see that the League of Legends community has such different views of a single topic.

102 Comments

Geauxx19 votes

Isn't that the point of a 14 day ban?

Reform or you end up with a perm ban?

TheSingularity3 votes

Kind of like high school. When many don't think to start studying until it's too late.

It seems that is the case in many ban situations. Many don't even try to change until it's to little to late or don't expect riot to act. Because you don't appreciate just how much you could lose until it's finally gone.

I'd support this but they'd get a very strict "parole" style thingo. They'd start with ping restrictions (no spamming), no chat (can see team mates), no emotes, no skins and a one strike policy. If they behave (honours speed this up, false reports do nothing and a legit report ends it all) they will slowly be weened back into the game with more tools being unlocked UNLESS THEY WANT THEM TO STAY LOCKED (they have an opportunity to go "I think I'll be an ass if you give this back to me, keep it disabled"). Any reports would be reviewed manually and if anything was found, that account becomes locked again. Even the tiniest slip up: MIA pinging someone for dying, feeding, throwing, banning someones pick, insta locking the list goes on. And they're gone.

AirKingNeo5 votes

People don't reform in 14 days.

Geauxx3 votes

So basically, ignore the warning then complain when the full punishment comes, ok.

Wínters Dawn1 votes

Here's the thing I lost my main account right I was toxic. I accepted the punishment I never made a thread or sent in a support ticket because I knew I deserved it. BUT the thing is man it hit me HARD. My account was 4 years old and ya I had gotten the 14 day ban and kept being toxic but after getting perma banned its different. Like I said it hit me hard so if for whatever reason I got my main account back I would never do or say anything to lose it again.

People like you dont even really care if the person reformed you just like to see people suffer and hurt over the internet.

ChaoticPinecone6 votes

It is, but 14 days is a fairly short amount of time. It really does take some introspection and growth as a human to not be toxic, and it usually doesnt happen in 2 weeks. In 2 weeks, you havent even had enough time to cool off from getting banned in the first place.

I like the way that Incarnati0n (Jensen) and IWillDominate's toxicity was handled - a 1 year ban. I personally like 6 months as another tier too - its long enough to hurt, but not long enough to create a new account and grind everything back (unless you pay a ton of money for it). That gives you a real reason to want the account back, and enough time to actually think about what happened.

RIght now, I think it goes 10 day chat, 25 day chat, 14 day ban, then perma. I'm for adding further restrictions - I'd like to see a 1 week ban, 2 week, 1 month, 6 month, then 1 year. If you run through all those (so almost 1 year and 8 months of being banned), you probably deserve a perma. Going from 2 weeks to perma is pretty harsh.

Geauxx1 votes

So how many warnings will it take before someone decides it's not all about them?

ChaoticPinecone2 votes

For me, its less about the number of warnings and more about the length of time. 14 days is pretty short. I like 6 months. But then I do realize that getting a 6 month ban as your first can be seen as harsh. Thats why I like some sort of escalating system - keep the shorter ones, but implement longer ones before the perma.

Ive said it before - you cant flip a switch from being toxic to not toxic. Its not as simple as, "someone decides it's not all about them." Being able to control your emotions is not something you decide on a whim. It takes growth, introspection, thought, and self awareness to stop being toxic. You dont get that in 14 days.

kms irl3 votes

You are assuming a 100% accurate report system. You can be banned for saying "that was fucking amazing gj" if you get reported by your teammates, and who knows what their motivations for reporting are.

Kamadon9 votes

I think the whole tribunal System should be reworked. The reasons people Report each other for are far from realistic. I am not sure if any of the people who ever reported me were facing discussions in their real (work-) life for example. Arguing even to the Point of flaming should allways be allowed in games. If it doesn't go way to far from the reallity it should totally be allowed. For example flaming someone who is coninously not improving allthough you tell him what to do won't be banned in any case, while on the other hand the person flaming him because he doesn't see any of his advices converted into his teammates playstyle is way more likely to be banned. This system is nonsense and far from reality.

Jo0o4 votes

Reality?

Show me a successful employee or boss that constantly berates their coworkers with profanity and slurs.

Somebody may get fired for poor performance, but that happens over the span of days/weeks/months/years. The criteria of "continuously not improving" within the span of a 30-minute game is bizarre.

Top Draven1 votes

i am pretty sure that People who Play ranked had enough time to improve and learn from the experience of others. So there should be the "ranked ban" for People who just destroy elo and eloboost thereselfes back to Gold/plat or buy These Kind of accs.

Jo0o3 votes

Enforcing player skill through a report system is ludicrous.

It's a game, people should have the right to be less skilled than others at it. If they're bad, they'll demote.

This Is Your Dad2 votes

What if we got rid of reporting and had an automated account suspension prior to contacting Riot support? Since the automated system is so automated that reporting someone only seems to trigger a review, why not just skip that and review everything since most people seem to report everyone anyway?

Jo0o3 votes

How could Riot possibly keep up with reviewing every game ever played?

This Is Your Dad1 votes

Well in my low elo I get spammed with report x for whatever reason all game so if they actually report people as much as they chat about it my god the system is broken. :P

Jo0o3 votes

In my experience, people rarely join in on gang-reports without seeing the shit for themselves. And they don't do anything anyway, since only one report is required to trigger a review.

pulledchicken1 votes

military?.... but the majority of league players r wimp

Jo0o3 votes

Hardcore bosses have a place in the military.

League of Legends is severely fucking removed from the military.

pulledchicken1 votes

street life as a second example. i mean FUCK is in 'merica casual... but in league u get banned wtf.

Jo0o5 votes

Wtf does "street life" have to do with League of Legends?

And cursing is fine. You can say "fuck" all you want. You just can't go out of your way to harass and antagonize people.

kms irl2 votes

Not true, the system detects profanity and punishes you for it so long as anyone wants to report you for any reason.

hi im Rizzuto7 votes

i think yes since this game promotes player reform

AeroWaffle4 votes

That's what the punishments before the perma-ban are for. To give the player a chance to change their behavior.

If you're perma-banned, Riot isn't nearly as interested in giving you extra chances since you've convinced them that you're not worth the trouble.

KVbqbFsC8e2 votes

I think one issue is that Riot needs to better communicate with what the player needs to work on. I remember the first time I got banned it was pretty confusing because there was nothing that I viewed as "toxic" in my chatlog. I had been playing online games for many years, and not in a single one would any community or company view calling someone "bad" as being worthy of a ban.

A single chatlog with what you said and no context whatsoever is far from clear when warning players what they need to work on. If I remember correctly there was some talk about monthly cards showing a players progress on how or if they were "reforming". What the hell happened to that idea?

Zielmann7 votes

That would defeat the purpose of it being "permanent", no?

NinjaGuy697 votes

I mean people who were permanently banned usually do get a second chance. It's called a 14-day ban. Unless you're doing something truly nefarious like scripting, DDoSing or boosting, then the worst punishment you can receive is a 14-day ban. That ban gives people time to reflect on their actions and learn from them. Those who reform are likely to not be punished again. Those who remain toxic will probably receive a permaban shortly after returning to League of Legends. The reform system seems to be working as intended.

hi im Rizzuto2 votes

{quoted}

I mean people who were permanently banned usually do get a second chance. It's called a 14-day ban. Unless you're doing something truly nefarious like scripting, DDoSing or boosting, then the worst punishment you can receive is a 14-day ban. That ban gives people time to reflect on their actions and learn from them. Those who reform are likely to not be punished again. Those who remain toxic will probably receive a permaban shortly after returning to League of Legends. The reform system seems to be working as intended.

actually after 1 year of not beeing punished or anything i got permenant ban because i tryed some flex queus and got trolled pretty hard , yet on one off day you get perma ban , wich is kind of sad lol

NinjaGuy693 votes

actually after 1 year of not beeing punished or anything i got permenant ban because i tryed some flex queus and got trolled pretty hard , yet on one off day you get perma ban , wich is kind of sad lol

I find that hard to believe it was the reason you were punished. Furthermore, if you were punished before, then you had your chance to reform.

I refuse to chat5 votes

I was permabanned for spam pinging. No email, no warning, no 14 day ban. It wasn't "reportable" so it skipped straight to a manual review. I knew I was annoying but didn't know I would be perma banned for it. Nowadays you can mute pings, people spam them and never get punished, and even tyler1 is getting 2nd looks from riot about his ban. A 2nd chance for me would be nice, but I don't see it ever happening, even if other players get unpermabanned.

AeroWaffle5 votes

According to the Riot'er that replyed to your thread you were doing more than just ping spamming. You were intentionally feeding, intentionally wasting summoner spells, and so forth.

You knew that your behavior was pissing people off, in fact, that was the intention. I don't see why you needed Riot to tell you that it wasn't acceptable to do so.

DJMason883 votes

In your case, you are correct when you said you didn't chat, but your in game behavior was often much worse then a few toxic words. This wasn't behavior in one or two games, but a traceable pattern that goes back a few months. Intentionally feeding, blowing summoner spells at random times, buying multiple boots, multiple tears, teleporting into base and running back and forth and of course, the non-stop pinging that you would do to your team mates. In fact, when you get really upset it looks like you just decide to ping all the time stopping only for the forced cooldown period and then starting back up again. Even when asked to stop you continue to do it for no real tactical reason. Perhaps to force an early surrender so you can get to the next game since you know that pings are not currently mutable?

Seems like a lot more than just spam pinging.

GreatWhiteNorth4 votes

Having forgiveness for payment is an incredibly bad idea.

#1 This would encourage Riot games to ban people for no reason, and thereby generate suspicion that this is what they are doing.

#2 Anyone with a lot of income just wouldn't care about getting banned. I can already see a post on boards about someone typing "idc I just pay to unban".

Jo0o3 votes

This was attempted before. If I recall correctly, players were allowed to start a new account, and if they could make it to level 20 without being punished, they'd get their main account back.

The results were so overwhelmingly negative that Riot scrapped the program. People just couldn't pull it off.

So while I respect your desire to forgive people, it's been tried and found to not work.

Troll for Trump3 votes

I think the people just demonize permabanned players too much. Some people just take longer to reform (Tyler1).

AeroWaffle3 votes

Tyler1 is hardly a good example of a person that deserves another chance.

He had plenty of chances. Plenty. And it's been revealed that his current accounts are not without poor behavior, so no, he's not reformed. He's only keeping his behavior in check on camera.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Yeah, that's why I said some people take longer to reform. In his case, a lot of permabans(17, was it?). Are there any chat logs for his banned accounts? Or is Riot following through with their whole "permaban Tyler1 and his accounts from the game" schtick?

AeroWaffle1 votes

There was a recent video posted on the boards with some comments from Phreak at the start of the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXI0Kk8-NTM

Troll for Trump2 votes

Cool

Vumzuces3 votes

As someone who has been perma banned before.. i think having a second chance depending on the reason you were perma banned in the first place could be reasonable.

I personally was perma banned for being cocky in chat when destroying enemies or raging in chat when getting bad teams. However that was over a year ago and i haven't had a single warning on my new account since. I understand the term permanent being forever but perhaps they could decrease it to a year or 2 as a lot can change in that persons life over the course of 1, 2 or 3 years.

I think i was around 16 at the time of the ban, and am currently 18 and about to go off to uni.. theres a huge difference and I guess it wouldn't do any harm if riot proposed some changes to their perma ban system.

PandaPenyihir3 votes

Maybe we should just try something new and start giving perma banned accounts a chance again and see what the data brings up?

can't hurt to try, its not like this community is getting any better anyway.

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

Here's the reason I put "No, never."

If you are bad enough to get a permanent ban, then I think you need a permanent reminder to be nice. A banned account sits as a nice reminder to you about what can happen if you can't abide by the rules.

Chat restrictions and 14-bans are designed to push players to reform. They are temporary reminders that toxic behavior isn't tolerated. If a temporary reminder is enough for the person to reform, then those measures are enough.

If a temporary reminder doesn't work, though, then they clearly need a more permanent reminder. A banned account actually costs that person something; it is a real and permanent consequence for their real, toxic behavior. There are players that can reform without that permanent reminder, and they get their chance to do that. By the time you are getting a perma-ban, you have already exhausted your second and third chances (most of the time).

Therefore, I believe that "second chances" on any account undermine the effectiveness of the system overall. They already get a "second chance" (or fourth of fifth, depending on their punishments in the past); they can make a new account.

Angrychickén3 votes

So, just my five cents on the topic,

I think that humans in general are basically all good.

We can all have problems, we are not perfect.

Some people forget themselves and act in ways they normally wouldn't if given the option of anomynimity, or not being punished. Think the Purge.

A permanent ban is really the full wake up call, not the 2 week ban, not the warning that comes with it, but the final level.

And I think, that if people see the consequences of their actions, they will do much better.

But that's just my five cents.

Wínters Dawn1 votes

That's what I'm saying. If I got my main account back I could guarantee I wouldn't lose it again. Getting perma banmed hit me hard.

Angrychickén1 votes

How did you even find this post

It's seven months old

Wínters Dawn1 votes

Lol, I dont even know. I went to the player behavior boards and it was near the top.

ibeatanerexia3 votes

I don't think telling someone they suck should require a ban or a restriction. The other person should realize it and try to fix it. So they don't ruin the game for others who would like to win.

Silly Neeko2 votes

Depending on the circumstances, I have seen some things that it was kinda funky how they got perma banned.

One of them was telling the other team what their ally had called them and was asking for a report for them..... (they had said the N word)..... And got banned right along side the person who was actually toxic.

They could have to register a new account that is linked to that account (no pre existing accounts), since they already say that people can make a new account still.... Apart from what I heard about Tyler1 who is perma banned and if they see him playing they will ban the account.... And they can prove themselves trying to reform. When they prove themselves to be a better influence on the community for an extended period of time, then they can potentially get their perma banned account back.

However this will come at a cost of if they get into trouble again, they will have both of those accounts banned and be unable to to get either of them back again.

Oelyk2 votes

I am no fan of flamers or people whose actions warrant that tier of punishment. As much as people think this whole second chance thing is honorable and merciful, people who actually learn accept the punishment and move on from it, while those who can't get past it only want to get back.

Wínters Dawn1 votes

I moved on, I havent thought about my old account in a while. But with 1300$ usd spent on that account its hard to not At least hope

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