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Actually Penalized For Stating Our Comp Was Unviable

zecastar··25 votes·4,021 views

I had faith in the system and my right to express an opinion without harassing or insulting others till this happened. However, I guess the system does not understand the difference between valid reports and false reports well enough and considers reports worthy of consideration regardless of merit.

Our comp. was awful and our players were not working together at all in the game or in the lobby to alleviate the issues. They basically had the attitude of "I don't care... I do what I want and the team can pay for it. Everyone can be thrown under the bus if I have my fun." When I stated my opinion about the comp., I got flamed hard, called autistic, and was met with profanities. I was firmly under the impression that I cannot be punished merely for expressing another point of view and in this case, I don't think it was even really a matter of opinion. Our comp. actually was awful when judged coldly. I'm not here to be a team cheerleader and to promote false delusions. I will be HONEST. As far as I'm concerned, this moves past reducing harassment and bullying straight into thought control. In fact, I was the one actually being bullied here (all chat calls for reports etc.) just because I didn't say everything was sunshine and roses when it clearly was not. It was entirely within our power to never find ourselves in such a situation. The game was just automatically reviewed and I got the penalty seconds after it ended so clearly no human read the log to actually understand anything. The game I'm discussing is game 1.

Here are the glorious chat logs of the worst offenses Riot's bots could find due to reports:

*I apologize for the awful typos but I only typed while moving or dead so I'm not focusing on such things. Also, keep in mind that you have no idea about what I'm actually responding to and nothing is said in a vacuum randomly. The most I see is me vehemently disagreeing with certain team decisions. I'm not just going off on someone out of the blue or even criticizing them personally. It's all about the decisions.

Game 1 me: best mias NA me: not that it matters me: this game is compositionally lost after the zed pick regardless me: it's going to miss a large percentage fo time at that range me: that's how hes balanced me: anyway idaf, this was lost at champ select me: basically unless we go 10-0 me: no point getting mad when it's clear you guys had no desire to win anyway me: i'm not even slightyl tilted me: the comp is just not viable at all me: the zed pick autoloses the game me: especially witha t ank top me: why? am i wrong? me: it's just logic me: can't get me banned for stating a well supported opinion me: i didn't insult anyone or anything me: i stated the comp is unviable me: and autoloses without a massive lead me: no it's not me: because it's not an attidude me: its'a r ealtiy me: it's not random negative comment me: that's like saying it's raining when it's actualyl raining me: nothing to do with emotion me: or atitude me: you can be in denial but it is what it is me: no it's not me: and i am allwoed to talk as much as i liek me: you can mute if you want but it's certainly against no rule me: it's not "sht talk" it's a well reasoned analysis me: i can explain exactly why if you want me: if you find talking annoying, don't read it or don't respond to it me: you're right, it doesn't take much but it does still take something which actually is valid me: criticizinga comp and offering explanations is not me: no, because i'm not complaining about others talking me: i'm not the one who said it was annoying me: read me: trist did me: trist is someone me: you can make false reports but criticizng a comp and not agreeing with you isn't among the options me: and i'm sure even you realize that me: i don't have to say the comp is viable when it's not just to please you me: i did jg me: i jsut got 2 manned at every buff me: if you can't deal with a dissenting opinion, that's not my problem me: yeah i did but i didn't die to him, I died due to rotations me: and the bot rotationw asnt pigned me: yes i invaded but their lane was MIA me: i had no issue fighting lee sin me: zed, there is absolutely no merit to anyt me: so i think you realize it me: yes i do me: someone stating a comp isn't viable... explaining why... no AP mid, almost no cc, ,malp hard countering our 3 AD/AutoA me: isn't against any rule me: you are allowed to express yourself and offer opinions... this isn't even me: random me: it's not an opinion it's a fact me: what isn't allowed is harassment etc. me: you are allowed to mute me: or not read it me: nope, i never did me: and it's not spamming me: i am not repeating the same thing me: nor am i advertizing anyhting me: i am merely responding to you me: or otehrs me: because spelling isn't my focus while playing me: actually completley false... they say that me stating the comp isnt viable is negative me: not true

Game 2 me: who was taking so long?? me: zzzzz me: reported me: afk me: thanks for ruining the game by being afk in a bush me: die cancervern me: broken pos that isn't nerfed for some reaosn despite 57% average winrate with that me: and pick ban pro play me: abuse the freelo while you can you disgusting tree me: ban that cancer ivern next time me: ther eare people who play him
me: you're completley wrong... he's god tier at every elo me: literalyl the highest winrate jg by a huge margin me: and for experienced players over 60% winrate in diamond1 + me: he's straight busted me: you can even be bad and still easily get diamond me: don't you feel bad about abusing such a broken freelon champion? me: 57% average winrate and 60%+ in diamond 1.... disgusting broken pos me: you're COMPLETELY WRONG and every metric proves it not just pro play me: he's actualyl BY FAR THE MOST BROKEN CHAMPION IN THE GAME NOT JUST JUNGLER me: YEAH IGNORE ALL STATS LMAO me: ivern is completley busted me: by every metric ther is at every level me: just because he doesnt have huge damage doesn't mean he isn't god tier and utterly disgustingly unfairly busted me: look at thes tats if you odnt blieve me: o me: Im not just randomly saying this me: no me: I HATE PLAYING HIM, yes hes freelo high plat/d5 no matter how bad you are me: but i hate his playstayle me: is houdlnt be froced to play a champion just because he overshadows almost he entire roster me: that's NOT TRUE AT ALL there are many unpopular jgs with nowhere near tha twinrate me: it is NOT about playrate me: at all me: and 5% isn't that small me: hes just straight fn busted and even pro players say it me: not just stats me: you just dont realize it becuase his damage is low me: but his kit as a whole is fn absurd me: he's a nunu janna god tier child me: yeah im titled because it's unfair me: it's actually unfair for a champion witha 5% playrate to have a 57% average winrate even in plat+ me: and for experienced players, 61% in diamond 1 + me: it's straight bs me: absolutely insane me: compeltely fn busted me: not even graves does that me: or shaco me: i am right me: go look at the fn stats me: go look at similar playrate jgs me: you wont finda single one witht aht performance me: you say hes not busted but ahve zero evidence for it me: i am right me: go look at the evidence me: isntead of insiting on your incorrect assertiosn me: ok? good argument me: nice evidence me: for? me: yeah its my fault you die me: and i am your slave me: i have to do whatever you want me: thats how the game works me: i wasnt typing me: you die and then find a scapegoat me: don't lie to yourself me: you were under her turret when i was top and i left me: i said nothing till trundle blamed me for his 1v1 deaht me: it's weird how tf gets so worked up about ivern being busted... secret ivern main? me: not sure why you're taking ti personally like i insulted your dog me: or maybe i dont want to die to a poppy E? me: and i didnt steal anyhting me: i created that kill me: i ulted her and did most of the damge to her me: it's absurd how Riot allows Ivern in his state just because people don't complain as much about him since he's not a 100-0 champ like Rengar me: no me: statsiticaly shes not me: after the nerfs me: it just ameks sense me: her kit has big strengthsd me: but also big weaknessees me: go look at poppys winrate me: its 48% me: even in diamond+ me: experienced players get higher but not anyhting crazy me: dravens trying me: i never trolled... this tf can't have a discussion without getting mad me: i said ivern is busted, provided evidence me: and tf instead spouts profanities at me and isnults me me: hardly... can't have a good game with such huge imbalance in champions me: if you were playing something that wasn't graves, shaco or ivern, i'd say gg me: but this is as good as legalized cheating

Game 3 me: red start lee, likely top gank 3 min me: ill be 6 after blue me: idk why you force me: i got exhausted jsut fn back off me: wtf me: thats actualyl sooo fn bad me: you even lose the wave me: there was no reaosn me: i jsut dont get the thought proceses me: we saw lee bot, i get exhausted, im not 6, huge wave... all low hp all lwo mana me: stoptankign me: do you need it or em? me: infenral me: lee isnt here me: idk why we're even starting fights me: my whole jgs up me: and no objectiver tot ake me: viktor no ult me: why me: theres no objecitve me: no reaosn tof ight me: yeah and? me: what is more important than that wave? me: yeah there was me: it was an ult from fog of war me: their comp is so annoying me: i cant even move me: you dont ahve 4 tanks me: you have 1 tnak me: why are we doing this sht me: at least let me heal off drag me: i dont get why we ignore the objective me: toc hase a naut me: just stall me: we win late prob me: well vayne was bot, naut was top... can't believ we lost hat me: it's not my build as much as the score me: id pop anyway me: got focused by 3 me: and viktor utled me: wrong me: 3 people focused me me: id die there ven with 4k hp lol me: there isn't just one correct build for ww and i find the tank build broing me: you guys made as many miostakes as i did me: infernal up... we won fight... ic an heal me: you chse naut me: i cant stop them me: why would i back me: he dove and then he ran me: and then you guys followed all the way to the bush me: not really, i went 8 2 last game me: lol galio me: i am right me: 100% me: those decisions aren't exactly related to my play me: because it'sn not something i can stop me: and the game is over me: as well me: it was not over at infernal me: and many similar places me: for example, i gank bot, get exhausted, you guys go through the wave while lees bot me: i died a lot due to focus or ambushes, but i consider these chases 10x worse me: yeah i never said i was going to go tnak me: except i wasnt me: and i got exhausted because i wasnt me: this is way stronger in ganks me: bette rpesron? me: nothign to do wth it

BTW: This happened on a different account ranked Platinum 4 but I'd rather keep it anonymous. My intention here isn't to remove the chat restriction or get anything from anyone. I'm here to highlight a blatant flaw with the system - which is clearly way too reliant on report frequency rather than validity. I don't think any of my games here were that out of line for a heated competition.

Again, these aren't even the norm. These are the few games Riot could find which triggered reports. Two of which were mostly because I strongly maintained an opinion. The first was because I said our comp. wasn't viable and pretty much autoloses without snowballing. The second was me stating that Ivern is overpowered while someone on my team disagreed with me and basically called me an idiot to suggest Ivern was over the top. The last game was just strong disagreement with some team decisions. I'm not responsible for people's emotional problems and their inability to handle a competitive game with criticism.

91 Comments

NineTailedMystic29 votes

Sounds like overall severe negativity and some choice words in Game 2, not "because I merely stated our comp was unviable".

zecastar7 votes

{quoted}

Sounds like overall severe negativity and some choice words in Game 2, not "because I merely stated our comp was unviable".

There's obvious frustration but it doesn't seem that bad (especially for games supposedly selected for toxicity). I know my behavior could have been better but having room for improvement doesn't mean you actually cross the line into meriting punishments for toxicity. It's also not as if every comment has to be positive or constructive in order for it to not be considered toxic. I don't have to filter everything and I don't recall being paid to become the team cheerleader. I am only myself. My only responsibility as I see it is to not personally attack/harass/insult others and to keep it about the game. We should strive for more but it's just a bonus.

Here's my Riot support message btw:

With no previous warning, I receive a chat restriction immediately after a game in which I criticized the comp. This was clearly not read by a human but was instead triggered by at least two very vocal players who were calling for reports on me. This is not justified unless I am actually not allowed to express any opinion except what people want to hear. There was no insult, no harassment, no profanity etc.

The other linked games are similar and mostly about tactical disagreements or opinions on champions (Ivern). I understand that toxicity is a problem but this is not a fair assessment because occassionally disagreeing with someone strongly isn't the same as being toxic. Toxicity is about retaliation, personal attacks, insults etc. not discussing whether Ivern is OP or whether a comp. is viable.

I don't want vague notions about why I was punished. It's pretty obvious that even if I was near some sort of threshold for punishment, the evidence presented is not valid. I should not get moved from near a threshold to punishment based off false evidence. Likewise, if you were close to the illegal limit of alcohol while driving but then a cop pulls you over and injects you with more alcohol in order to arrest you, that would not be OK. You might have been close to the limit but using false evidence to get you over it is not ethical or logical. The triggering game is a textbook case of false reports at work.

Kei1432 votes

But you were negative (attitude of giving up) in all the games shown.

For you to be punished with "negativity" (which is a mild form for toxicity), it must happen over loooooootttttttttsssss of games. So ask yourself how often you have an attitude like that, and that is why you got dinged here.

In game1, instead of demoralizing the team and saying "game is lost", you can just say "if we want to win, we have to get 10 kills early", and gameplan towards a win condition instead of giving up.

SaladSavior2152 votes

{quoted}

Sounds like overall severe negativity and some choice words in Game 2, not "because I merely stated our comp was unviable".

well aren't you douche special snowflake <3

NineTailedMystic1 votes

?

Only Play Darius15 votes

You seem to make a lot of comments that don't actually add anything constructive. Sometimes you need to just shut up and play, especially when it's something like a team composition issue that cannot be resolved after everyone has locked in their champions.

astralwit14 votes

On one hand if you play off-meta and your team doesn't like it, you get punished for "not communicating" which isn't even a report option. Here "communication" is code for do what's expected of you and what your team wants rather than actually sharing your plan. On the other hand, if you do communicate as here, it's reportable because they disagree with you and don't want your opinion unless it's that they're very special snowflakes. I guess fascism is alive and well, at least in certain video games.

Votable Jester1 votes

Not communicating at least used to be a report option. They may have just made it part of one of the current ones.

Anyways I'd say this case is at least a reasonable report for negative attitude, which I think at most applies a chat restriction. I personally wouldn't report op, but I could understand others doing so at least in the first game. I didn't read the second, but the third seemed fine to me personally.

BioticBrony12 votes

There is a whole lot more here than just "disagreeing with the team comp", considering how that was only one game of the three presented. The other chat logs show a very negative and rather rude attitude when it came to your teammates, and it obviously shows how you treated your teammates. You act very rude, and instead of just letting something go, you constantly bring it up and up again. If they were the ones who kept bringing it up, than why bother to respond?

These are not inherently toxic, but if I ever met you in real life, and you talked like that, it doesn't matter if you're stating a correct fact or opinion, I'd brand you off as a jerk, and would rather not be around you. Even if these are not that bad, we have no way of knowing whether or not you consistently act this way, this low brand negativity that drags the game down for everyone else, but considering how you did get a Chat restriction because of this, I'm rather inclined to believe you do act this way.

Three games aren't the only reason you got Chat restricted, and I'm skeptical to believe that each of your reports were done only by the people flaming you.

SirPurrr9 votes

I guess you have to just avoid talking in the future unless it's a compliment. It's sad but true. Don't even try to make calls or tell anyone superior builds. Someone will be randomly oversensitive and get offended for no reason. If you do this, Riot will consider you reformed and their system a great success even if you did nothing wrong to begin with. The way reports work isn't based on fairness, merit or any particular rule. It's about how some people who play with you feel. It doesn't matter if their feelings are unjustified because they will still attribute them to you and get you in trouble. It's a myth that reports are actually verified and reviewed in any meaningful way (as even the poster here was punished nearly instantly). It's based on statistics, not understanding. That's how the Nunu disruption support got banned at first. He was getting reported a ton even though he wasn't breaking any rule.

Peng0d8 votes

I basically stopped reading after this

me: die cancervern

This comment has nothing to do with an unviability of a comp. Definitely deserved a penalty if there are any other messages like this.

zecastar4 votes

{quoted}

I basically stopped reading after this

This comment has nothing to do with an unviability of a comp. Definitely deserved a penalty if there are any other messages like this.

You stopped reading before that. This was not the game where I was talking about the comp. and I stated quite clearly which game was what.

Moreover, you also seem to lack a sense of humor. Ivern counterjungled me all game and we finally caught him. That's when that comment was typed in jest. This is in the same class of comments as when someone types "die Teemo!!!!" after a long chase or when Teemo is referred to as Satan (even by Riot).

Sp33d Zer01 votes

No way for us to see that. We only get to see the logs.

Peng0d3 votes

{quoted}

You stopped reading before that. This was not the game where I was talking about the comp. and I stated quite clearly which game was what.

Moreover, you also seem to lack a sense of humor. Ivern counterjungled me all game and we finally caught him. That's when that comment was typed in jest. This is in the same class of comments as when someone types "die Teemo!!!!" after a long chase or when Teemo is referred to as Satan (even by Riot).

  1. I didn't stop before that, if you're going to post all of the chats from every game then I'll read comments from the other games as well. So if you only want to talk game 1, then please only post game 1.

  2. If all we can see is your POV, then "die cancervern" doesn't look very good at all. So it has nothing to do with sense of humor as it does with a lack of information given, which is in no way my fault at all.

  3. I did have to go back to read some of the summoner's code, but you did breach 2, 3, 7, and 8.

All in all, please be aware of what you have posted. If you have an intended view to show, show only information needed. Also, do not be judgmental of someone's view when YOU did not provide other evidences to offer up a different view.

exigentomic2 votes

{quoted}

  1. I didn't stop before that, if you're going to post all of the chats from every game then I'll read comments from the other games as well. So if you only want to talk game 1, then please only post game 1.

  2. If all we can see is your POV, then "die cancervern" doesn't look very good at all. So it has nothing to do with sense of humor as it does with a lack of information given, which is in no way my fault at all.

  3. I did have to go back to read some of the summoner's code, but you did breach 2, 3, 7, and 8.

All in all, please be aware of what you have posted. If you have an intended view to show, show only information needed. Also, do not be judgmental of someone's view when YOU did not provide other evidences to offer up a different view.

All games were discussed but it was never claimed that all games were about the same thing. That's your mistake.

I can't believe you find "cancervern" toxic. You've got to be kidding me lmao. You're thick as a brick or trolling. That's not even about the person. "OMG he called my champion cancerous to play against and was happy when they killed me!!! RITO PLZ!!!" What if someone says "delete LB plz" like Riot actually did this patch? That's the same intention as "cancervern" - in other words a person hates playing against that champion. Do you then go on a huge hissy fit and cry to Riot in reports about how X champion was harassed and denied its existence? Let's get real here. There's oversensitivity and then there's insanity.

LaughingStapler6 votes

Need I say more?

6Sfool6 votes

Toxic-not quite. Annoying- yes. Stating that your comp wont work is one thing- taking 50 lines to do so is another. Getting the last word in a league argument doesn't really matter. If you're right you're right, and there's no convincing people otherwise so it's best just to drop it after a while.

Troll for Trump5 votes

Why is every little thing that irritates people "toxic" now?

Naked Baby Thief5 votes

Cultured sensitivity.

We've created a cyber culture which promotes punishment for anything that upsets us in a game. This has sensitized us to the things that upset us, normalized punishment, and resulted in a community which reports everything, and is sensitive to even the most gentle language.

How amazing is it that we are so desensitized towards violence from watching it on T.V., yet so sensitive about words from being told to be, by the media, our teachers, and bad parenting.

Don't bully, don't say mean words, stay in your safe space, and please, give everyone trigger warnings.

Now lets watch Faces of Death 4 and say good things about each other.

BasedJarvan4203 votes

You are typing WAAAAAAYYY too much in the game. You're the reason plat is so toxic.

Sp33d Zer03 votes

Just looking at the first few lines of the first game you come off as really toxic.

zecastar5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JEOAcgnt,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-03-10T06:44:13.684+0000)

Just looking at the first few lines of the first game you come off as really toxic.

I think the word you're looking for is pessimistic and justifiably so given that comp. and our unwillingness to work together or compromise. Do I need to put wires around my lips to lift them up into a perfect smile when I play regardless of what's happening? Being displeased with the game situation and comp. isn't the same as toxic (although it was better to keep it to myself). You can't just blanket label anything you don't like as toxic. To call something toxic is way more serious than "I don't like what this person's saying."

Sp33d Zer02 votes

Toxicity and pessimistic tones tend to go hand in hand online communities. It is very hard to differentiate them. I'm not saying you didn't have reason to come off that way, but in general, yes, you even agreed it was better to keep it to yourself.

SaladSavior2151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JEOAcgnt,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-03-10T06:44:13.684+0000)

Just looking at the first few lines of the first game you come off as really toxic.

define toxic

Sp33d Zer01 votes

me: best mias NA me: not that it matters me: this game is compositionally lost after the zed pick regardless

This comes off as blaming a teammate for what they picked, just because they missed a mia. It sounds like complaining because he did not watch his mini map.

me: anyway idaf, this was lost at champ select me: basically unless we go 10-0 me: no point getting mad when it's clear you guys had no desire to win anyway

Further sounds like blaming his team and giving up. The rest of game one, while not actually that bad, looking at these two specific examples, shows off as talking down to his teammates.

me: zzzzz me: reported me: afk me: thanks for ruining the game by being afk in a bush me: die cancervern

Don't think I need to go over why this seemed toxic, but telling someone you are reporting, or asking for reports, is a bannable offense because it is a form of verbal harassment, as stated BY RIOT in http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/EE7d58Pu-dear-riotsome-clarification-please?show=flat&comment=0007

The rest of game 2 is just negative attitude, and that is an easy report. He spent the whole game complaining to/at his twisted fate which could have easily brought down morale for the rest of the group. Whether he meant for it to be negative or not, it comes off very, very strongly that way.

zecastar3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JEOAcgnt,comment-id=000900010000,timestamp=2017-03-10T19:00:21.482+0000)

This comes off as blaming a teammate for what they picked, just because they missed a mia. It sounds like complaining because he did not watch his mini map.

Further sounds like blaming his team and giving up. The rest of game one, while not actually that bad, looking at these two specific examples, shows off as talking down to his teammates.

Don't think I need to go over why this seemed toxic, but telling someone you are reporting, or asking for reports, is a bannable offense because it is a form of verbal harassment, as stated BY RIOT in http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/EE7d58Pu-dear-riotsome-clarification-please?show=flat&amp;comment=0007

The rest of game 2 is just negative attitude, and that is an easy report. He spent the whole game complaining to/at his twisted fate which could have easily brought down morale for the rest of the group. Whether he meant for it to be negative or not, it comes off very, very strongly that way.

What do MIAs have to do with a teammate's pick? How can you possibly suggest that those things were related? This wasn't even about a teammate not respecting MIAs. It was about a lack of MIAs. Stop roleplaying when Riot refuses to give context. The rest is similarly misinformed (saying I gave up for example) and yes, that game was compositionally lost. That's REALITY. Accusing someone of "negative attitude" for stating reality is silly. Also, they definitely DID NOT have a real desire to win if they picked in such a way since there was massive antisynergy and even the most basic aspects of a comp. were not met. It wasn't hard for the enemy team to hard counter them either. This was discussed in champ. select but no one cared. The team's actions support that assertion. It's not out of the blue.

These are not my standard chat logs but I don't think they merit any punishment. To me, that shows more an issue with the system and overly sensitive people who cannot handle any opinions besides positive and encouraging (regardless of what is logical or true). If I complain about Ivern, rightfully so as even the statistics show, that's not "negative attitude". That's just questioning game balance and offering support for your opinion. It's not even a slight on the team.

Negative attitude is when you are very negative for NO REASON and with DISREGARD TO REALITY. For example, if it's a sunny day and you say that today seems terrible over and over, that would be negative attitude. If on the other hand, it's a blizzard and people's property is being destroyed, that statement becomes reality for the traditional definition of "terrible." It is NOT negative attitude because it's just reflecting reality. Just because the statement might make someone feel the same, doesn't mean it is the same. However, it seems many are incapable or unwilling to understand this distinction. Likewise, if it's 2-25 with no turrets and inhibitors, the person saying "let's ff we're not winning this" isn't being negative. This is just the ACTUAL SITUATION you're in. The same goes if you went a full early game comp. and find yourself floundering at 40 minutes. Pointing that out isn't a matter of attitude as much as just how the game works. If you were struggling but had a late game comp. at 40 minutes, similar comments would be negative attitude since the onus is on the enemy team to prove a win before they get outscaled. Your chances may be decent even if you're very behind.

With how vague and arbitrary the ToS is as well as how it seems people report purely off emotion, this whole system should probably be thrown in the garbage. It is not ethical or fair. It's only based off what people feel and everything is left to interpretation. If it makes them mad that you say a game is "compositionally lost" after a certain pick, it doesn't matter whether you have good reasons for the statement or not. They don't want to read that so they report you for it and not only is there no punishment issued to them, but they are encouraged based on the community group think. I don't care if others agree with me or not but it doesn't make any sense. You just can't express a negative opinion without retaliation even if it's correct or at least well justified. They pretend that your attitude is negative for not being delusional like them. It's pathetic.

BTW: The idea that typing "reported for afk" is itself "verbal abuse" is beyond ridiculous. Do you know what verbal abuse actually means? What's next? Is a handshake assault? If someone is stealing from your fridge and you call him a thief, is that verbal abuse too? I would much rather have people verbally abuse me all than deal with this level of moderated nonsense and arbitrary censorship for opinions contrary to the group. This system is awful and unfair but Riot will just do what the majority want because it is their customer base so I don't blame them. I blame the people who complained enough to motivate Riot to implement something this stifling and draconian. I'm all for punishing people who harass others, vomit profanities, tell people to do/get awful things etc. However, the system has clearly expanded to punishing things which are VERY far from this extreme and border more on disagreement or personal dislike/annoyance than anything else. Everything is allowed unless people report you and if they do, nothing is allowed. :)

Sp33d Zer01 votes

I just want to make sure, you are actually blaming ME for riot's stance on what is, and is not harassment in their game.

Naked Baby Thief3 votes

Most of this isn't toxic.

Game 2 however.

What the robotic system probably saw was, " me: reported me: afk me: thanks for ruining the game by being afk in a bush me: die cancervern"

  1. Telling people they are reported, or telling your team to report someone, is considered Toxic. (This is according to current riot customer support, mind you, not my opinion).
  2. Saying "afk", the system probably assumed that you were going afk.
  3. Telling someone to die, yes, I think we can all consider that toxic behavior. Even if you are reviewed now, this seals the deal on you getting punished. Don't tell people to die.
zecastar2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Naked Baby Thief,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JEOAcgnt,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2017-03-10T09:56:34.135+0000)

Most of this isn't toxic.

Game 2 however.

What the robotic system probably saw was, " me: reported me: afk me: thanks for ruining the game by being afk in a bush me: die cancervern"

  1. Telling people they are reported, or telling your team to report someone, is considered Toxic. (This is according to current riot customer support, mind you, not my opinion).
  2. Saying "afk", the system probably assumed that you were going afk.
  3. Telling someone to die, yes, I think we can all consider that toxic behavior. Even if you are reviewed now, this seals the deal on you getting punished. Don't tell people to die.

I've already covered this and no I'm not telling people to die (should be pretty obvious even without context - especially with the moniker given). It was about the champion (we finally caught him invading). Last time I checked, I'm not the champion I play. If someone says "Die Teemo!!!", I don't think they are hoping I die irl. If they say, "go kill yourself Teemo" or "get run over by a car Teemo", that would be very different. It's pretty absurd to assume that whatever is said about champions in game is a reference to real life. By that logic I'd be a murderer every time I killed an Ezreal.

Naked Baby Thief1 votes

Again, I'm not saying this is my opinion, I am saying this is what the automated system sees.

Understand?

A machine doesn't understand the difference.

Dextix LT2 votes

A machine doesn't understand the difference.

And that is why its a shit system that needs human oversight. Context, matters..

Naked Baby Thief2 votes

They literally save millions of dollars by not staffing a customer support base large enough to deal with the toxicity of this game.

They will never take the automated system down. They know it is flawed, any expert would tell them so. Hell, there are Ted talks about the difficulties in doing what Riot claims they do.

Riot is only concerned with one thing. Profit.

If you don't think a customer support base for 100 million people is expensive, look up Blizzards customer service budget for WoW.

Dextix LT1 votes

Remember when we had the TRIBUNAL, where people who played this game did that job for FREE? I member.

I wonder how long it will take to finally rework it so that people could use it again.

EvilDustMan3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JEOAcgnt,comment-id=001300000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-10T13:01:41.341+0000)

Remember when we had the TRIBUNAL, where people who played this game did that job for FREE? I member.

I wonder how long it will take to finally rework it so that people could use it again.

It was only for edge cases and people abused it for points.

Dextix LT1 votes

Yes, for edge cases, and what is wrong with that? The automated system can handle the overall stuff, the edge cases that need more context on the matter can be handled by human beings, by players.

And it was abused by noone, because it gave no actual benefit to anyone. It was voluntary duty.

EvilDustMan2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JEOAcgnt,comment-id=00130000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-10T13:25:04.909+0000)

Yes, for edge cases, and what is wrong with that? The automated system can handle the overall stuff, the edge cases that need more context on the matter can be handled by human beings, by players.

And it was abused by noone, because it gave no actual benefit to anyone. It was voluntary duty.

People would go on and spam guilty.

Dextix LT1 votes

As a person who used the system, i will say, BULLSHIT.

People did not do that. I looked over all of my judgements, and i was correct around 90% of the time. Other 10% were pardons.

If people did spam guilty the ban rate would be 100%, yet it was not ever a case.

Please dont talk about a system when you know nothing about it and your best argument is a possibility of abuse that has nearly no chances of happening, because only those who WANT to help the community will actually bother to use the system.

Naked Baby Thief1 votes

There were actually a lot of children who would go on there and spam guilty, which is why it was dismantled.

And it wasn't for free either, it awarded IP for the majority of the duration of tribunal... which is particularly what attracted children to do it.

Children have the most free time, and that alone makes them the most likely to actually take the time for tribunal.

Dextix LT2 votes

IT awarded nothing, those who used the system knew that. And when it awarded IP it was 10 at most for many cases done. Please, read about the system or knowt it before spouting bullshit.

Those "children" would not give a fuck about wasting time on tribunal or for the measly ap reward that is lower than what you would get from a game.

Stop with the bullshit and prvide ACTUAL arguments.

Naked Baby Thief1 votes

This is you contradicting yourself;

IT awarded nothing

when it awarded IP

Good job.

Now, on that note, you cannot merely just toss arguments out and claim that there was no 'ACTUAL' argument.

That is a no true scotsman fallacy. Well that was no true argument. Well what is a 'true' argument. You are merely attempting to put a subjective opinion in the place of what should be a logical discussion. Logic is not about subjective opinion, it is about objective facts.

The fact you can put your double think in back to back sentences, should signal to you, that you should take more time in formulating your opinions.

Because so far, you are doing a shit job of being logical.

Dextix LT2 votes

Are you that incompetent or do you not grasp the english language?

It awarded nothing AFTER THE REMOVAL OF THE REWARDS, which were small BEFORE THEY WERE REMOVED. If you had any grasp on english language, you would have understood that, and that is not a true scotsman fallacy you intelectual wanabee, you dont eevn know what the hell it means.

Provide arguments as to why the tribunal system is bad, because i contradicted all of yours already.

Dextix LT2 votes

I dont think you know the meaning of the words you use mate.....

vOmvbrawfU1 votes

You are probably the biggest meta-slave I've ever come across. You spend entire games crying about champs being "OP" or "stupid picks" because someone picked Zed. LOL. What a joke. We then also have no way of knowing whether or not your logs were real since you obviously edited at least the name so you can post from your bronze "smurf".

You weren't banned for "stating your team comp was unviable", you were banned for spamming chat with stupid shit about how OP you think the enemy pick is, and how stupid your team is for not agreeing with you or playing something else, like Zed (probably mid). If you can't comprehend the difference there, I don't know what to tell you.

You sound like the type of person that plays Yi jg and then cries about how troll your team is for not picking a tank top and support.

zecastar2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sharkbait Ohaha,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JEOAcgnt,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2017-03-10T10:23:08.018+0000)

You are probably the biggest meta-slave I've ever come across. You spend entire games crying about champs being "OP" or "stupid picks" because someone picked Zed. LOL. What a joke. We then also have no way of knowing whether or not your logs were real since you obviously edited at least the name so you can post from your bronze "smurf".

You weren't banned for "stating your team comp was unviable", you were banned for spamming chat with stupid shit about how OP you think the enemy pick is, and how stupid your team is for not agreeing with you or playing something else, like Zed (probably mid). If you can't comprehend the difference there, I don't know what to tell you.

You sound like the type of person that plays Yi jg and then cries about how troll your team is for not picking a tank top and support.

Metqa slave? Far from it and in fact, I play no very popular champions but this has no bearing on what's discussed. Even if someone was a "meta slave" or whatever derogatory term you want to use for someone who follows the game and tries to play strong picks, I don't think that's against any rule. Certain champions are just too outclassed to be competitive even in Platinum and the usual culprits for this situation in the JG are Graves/Shaco/Ivern. This is mostly backed up by statistics. Do you think it's normal to have 57% average winrates?

You also fail completely at reading comprehension. I was never IN FAVOR of getting Zed and nor do I consider him OP as you suggest. It's actually the opposite! Zed created a full AD comp. vs a Malphite and was also not in a good lane matchup. This isn't about picking the top 10 champions per role. It's about having a VIABLE comp. Note that word "viable" rather than "optimal". That was not a viable comp. and no, I don't play Yi. I was in fact playing WW and was reasonably tanky (although I was the only tank). If you had read the chat logs, you'd know both of those things. Again, none of this is actually relevant.

As far as the chat logs, they are completely unaltered besides using "me" in place of the name. I don't care if you believe it or not and it seems like you're trolling anyway given all the red herrings you throw out. You're basically just applying some random stereotype you have in your head and putting words in my mouth without even reading what the post is about. Then you latch on to these self-created completely meaningless details to tear down some strawman for something which isn't even the subject of the discussion.

BTW: That definitely doesn't qualify as spamming even if it is overly verbose and sometimes repetitive. It's that way mostly because of people responding. I almost never type even 1/4 of what is in these games.

vOmvbrawfU1 votes

{quoted}

Even if someone was a "meta slave" or whatever derogatory term you want to use for someone who follows the game and tries to play strong picks, I don't think that's against any rule.

No, but constantly spamming how stupid your teammate is for picking Zed because YOU don't think he is a good champion, however, IS against the rules.

You also seem to fail completely at reading comprehension. I was never IN FAVOR of getting Zed and nor do I consider him OP as you suggest. It's actually the opposite! Zed created a full AD comp. vs a Malphite and was also not in a good lane matchup. This isn't about picking the top 10 champions per role.

Please show me where I suggested that you were in favor of getting Zed. I said quite the opposite actually. I find it funny that you cannot pick up on multiple parts of a sentence, but then accuse me of failing at reading comprehension. I clearly stated OP pick, "OOOOOR" playing something you think is stupid, like Zed. Please don't try and insult someone's intelligence if you're not educated enough to do so.

It's about having a VIABLE comp. Note that word "viable" rather than "optimal". That was not a viable comp.

I don't think you understand the difference between viable and optimal. Zed isn't the strongest mid laner right now. He is far from unviable.

and no, I don't play Yi. I was in fact playing WW and was reasonably tanky (although I was the only tank). If you had read the chat logs, you'd know both of those things. Again, none of this is actually relevant.

So, after attacking my reading comprehension, you AGAIN fail to comprehend what I wrote (see what I did there). The Yi was just an example. Picking a squishy champion and complaining about no tanks. It can also be applied to picking ww and complaining about all AD team comp.

Also, in your chat logs, you clearly state that there isn't a right build for WW and that you find the tank build boring. Not even wrong, buuut I'm going to go ahead and refute the "I built reasonably tanky" comment lulz.

As far as the chat logs, they are completely unaltered besides using "me" in place of the name. I don't care if you believe it or not and it seems like you're trolling anyway given all the red herrings you throw out. You're basically just applying some random stereotype you have in your head and putting words in my mouth without even reading what the post is about. Then you latch on to these self-created completely meaningless details to create some strawman for something which isn't even the subject of the discussion.

False. You're spending entire games harassing teammates for picking Zed mid and then trying to label it as "discussing team comp". Enjoy the punishment, man.

zecastar1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sharkbait Ohaha,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JEOAcgnt,comment-id=001400000000,timestamp=2017-03-10T11:42:31.193+0000)

No, but constantly spamming how stupid your teammate is for picking Zed because YOU don't think he is a good champion, however, IS against the rules.

Please show me where I suggested that you were in favor of getting Zed. I said quite the opposite actually. I find it funny that you cannot pick up on multiple parts of a sentence, but then accuse me of failing at reading comprehension. I clearly stated OP pick, "OOOOOR" playing something you think is stupid, like Zed. Please don't try and insult someone's intelligence if you're not educated enough to do so.

I don't think you understand the difference between viable and optimal. Zed isn't the strongest mid laner right now. He is far from unviable.

So, after attacking my reading comprehension, you AGAIN fail to comprehend what I wrote (see what I did there). The Yi was just an example. Picking a squishy champion and complaining about no tanks. It can also be applied to picking ww and complaining about all AD team comp.

Also, in your chat logs, you clearly state that there isn't a right build for WW and that you find the tank build boring. Not even wrong, buuut I'm going to go ahead and refute the "I built reasonably tanky" comment lulz.

False. You're spending entire games harassing teammates for picking Zed mid and then trying to label it as "discussing team comp". Enjoy the punishment, man.

I never called him stupid but it was definitely a stupid choice in that situation. It isn't about Zed as a champion. I'm not sure why this is hard for you to understand. The strength of a champion isn't linear and applicable to every comp. I have NO PROBLEM with Zed and he'd be perfectly fine with any AP top or even a tank top who does magic damage. Zed is obviously viable as a champion but that doesn't make him viable in all comps. You're arguing a point that was never claimed.

I did misread your post about Zed. I lost patience after your first attempts to troll and make up random situations with huge mischaracterizations.

As far as my WW, you're not refuting anything. I know what I build. Just having Bloodrazor doesn't suddenly make you squishy when you have other items too and lifesteal as well as your E. We were also not losing because of a lack of tank.

No one was harassed. Criticizing the comp. isn't the same as harassing an individual. For example, Zed can be a stupid pick. That doesn't mean I'm calling the player stupid. Not hard. I don't know why I'm responding to an obvious troll though.

EvilDustMan1 votes

{quoted}

I never called him stupid but it was definitely a stupid choice in that situation. It isn't about Zed as a champion. I'm not sure why this is hard for you to understand. The strength of a champion isn't linear and applicable to every comp. I have NO PROBLEM with Zed and he'd be perfectly fine with any AP top or even a tank top who does magic damage. Zed is obviously viable as a champion but that doesn't make him viable in all comps. You're arguing a point that was never claimed.

I did misread your post about Zed. I lost patience after your first attempts to troll and make up random situations with huge mischaracterizations.

As far as my WW, you're not refuting anything. I know what I build. Just having Bloodrazor doesn't suddenly make you squishy when you have other items too and lifesteal as well as your E. We were also not losing because of a lack of tank.

No one was harassed. Criticizing the comp. isn't the same as harassing an individual. For example, Zed can be a stupid pick. That doesn't mean I'm calling the player stupid. Not hard. I don't know why I'm responding to an obvious troll though.

You really can't see how INSISTING someone 'autolost' the game because of their pick is completely unhelpful and unnecessary?

zecastar1 votes

{quoted}

You really can't see how INSISTING someone 'autolost' the game because of their pick is completely unhelpful and unnecessary?

I can see that and I almost never do it but I have a right to say it if I wish. I might not like your opinions about certain things either and may find them useless but I won't try to censor you (except possibly for myself by muting). I won't even report someone for saying "that's a retarded play/build/pick etc." but I will potentially report for "you're a retard". One is about the game and quality of decisions while the other extends to the person. neither is nice but as far as I see it, you can say anything as long as it's pertinent to the decisions made for that game rather than an individual's merit as a human being.

EvilDustMan1 votes

{quoted}

I can see that but I have a right to say it if I wish. I might not like your opinions about certain things either and may find them useless but I won't try to censor you (except possibly for myself by muting). I won't report someone for saying "that's an awful play" but I will potentially report for "you're a retard". One is about the game and quality of decisions while the other extends to the person. As far as I see it, you can say anything as long as it's pertinent to the decisions made for that game rather than an individual's merit as a human being.

Now, can you see how someone spending a large amount of time talking about how the game is already lost be a useful of team comp might not only be greatly annoying but distracting as well?

zecastar2 votes

{quoted}

Now, can you see how someone spending a large amount of time talking about how the game is already lost be a useful of team comp might not only be greatly annoying but distracting as well?

I don't have an obligation to have only opinions others wish to read or for all my statements to be constructive. Are you suggesting thought control is OK? If it's annoying, they can mute but believe me, I wouldn't have that much chat without others participating. As long as I don't resort to personal insults etc., it's within my right.

If someone spammed "we got this!" that would be equally unenlightened and without any useful constructive information. However, I doubt such a person would be raged at for "spamming" or providing no "useful" comment. Yet somehow because it's a positive statement you don't seem to submit it to the same standard. Both have just as much of a right to exist as long as they are within the abstract realm rather than personal attacks.

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