A plea to riot for self-mute option.

ProSaladToss·Feb 20, 2018·6 votes·987 views

I've been permabanned on my third account now. I know what I did was wrong, but in the moment I couldn't stop myself - impulse control is part of my mental disability which I've been clinically diagnosed with. If I were given the option to self-mute at all times I know I couldn't be able to make those choices - similar to the implant alcoholics can get to make them not able to drink (makes them violently sick). Call me a rageaholic?

Please riot, give us the option to self mute - most people who rage know it's not the right thing to do, but lack the impulse control - mine happens to be from borderline personality disorder, but others may have different reason.

This is a plea, I love this game and I hate getting accounts banned that I've sunk 100's of dollars into. Please give us self-mute.

58 Comments

TrulyBlandFeb 20, 20188 votes

Genuine question: If you lack impulse control, wouldn't you just end up un-muting yourself when you feel the urge to rage? I mean, I get that any additional barrier will probably make it easier to control yourself, but I'm mostly curious.

Jo0oFeb 20, 20182 votes

A very reasonable point.

Even if we assume this is something that Riot would be interested in implementing, they'd have to be skeptical of the amount of good it would do for the community. Just how many people out there both need this functionality AND would properly utilize it?

ShaolinToiletFeb 20, 20181 votes

Probably more than the amount of people who use item sets

La Belle SauvageFeb 20, 20181 votes

Excellent question.

PalPlaysFeb 20, 20181 votes

What if it was a setting to disable chat that you COULD NOT ACCESS while in game? That way by the time you COULD flame them, the game is already over and you would have to go to the extent of friending them JUST to chew'em out.

Silent GravityFeb 20, 20181 votes

Punishments don't change who people are. If someone NEEDS to express their displeasure, then a chat restriction just removes one avenue of that expression. The NEED still remains, so the only available option for expressing that NEED is through gameplay trolling.

This is what happened when Riot did give infinite chat restrictions.

People can use the punishments given to them as an impetus for changing themselves, if they want to.

ProSaladTossFeb 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silent Gravity,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IqsIgEQ9,comment-id=000400020000,timestamp=2018-02-20T22:05:55.870+0000)

Punishments don't change who people are. If someone NEEDS to express their displeasure, then a chat restriction just removes one avenue of that expression. The NEED still remains, so the only available option for expressing that NEED is through gameplay trolling.

This is what happened when Riot did give infinite chat restrictions.

People can use the punishments given to them as an impetus for changing themselves, if they want to.

Not even remotely true. Go read up on borderline personality disorder. If you remove the impulse access, the feelings subside quite quickly.

Silent GravityFeb 21, 20181 votes

Muting does not remove the impulse access in this case. The impulse is still there, and there is a viable outlet available in gameplay trolling.

ModThe DjinnFeb 20, 20186 votes

I can't speak for Riot, but I personally believe they are unlikely to implement such a feature. I'll explain why in a moment.

First, while there are definitely cases (like yours) where it might help, there are other ways of disabling chat. There are ways to unbind your enter key, for example, or you can move the chat off the screen.

The reason I think Riot doesn't have their own, official way is that they want players to communicate. Putting in an official "stop yourself from ever chatting again" button is basically saying "don't communicate." It's the same reason I feel like there isn't a "default mute all" option.

La Belle SauvageFeb 20, 20181 votes

I feel like if that were true there would be no mute option at all.

Umbral RegentFeb 20, 20182 votes

The mute option is a short-term defense against flamers and people who abuse the chat feature. Promoting the use of chat has its risks, and the Mute feature is there to mitigate those risks to some degree.

Riot wants players to use the chat, but they're also aware that people can and, in some cases, will, abuse it. It only makes sense that they give players the option to minimize the abuse.

La Belle SauvageFeb 20, 20182 votes

I agree, which chips away at Dijin's argument. Why wouldn't Riot implement a self mute if they're already okay with the mute option to begin with?

I don't think they will, mostly because mute all works good enough.

And Regardless of the OP's diagnosis claim, people can learn to not rage even when they have a Disorder. It's just much harder.

ProSaladTossFeb 20, 20182 votes

Even with heavy medication it's almost impossible to curve the impulse control. I have tried a lot of different things. Trust me, this has lost me a marriage and two jobs (now three league accounts, lul). But yeah, hard to get that perspective unless you actually have the disorder.

La Belle SauvageFeb 20, 20181 votes

I suffer from a neurological issue myself, not the one you mentioned though.

I struggled mightily with rage since age 11. And it's taken many years but I did overcome it. Initially it took me about 5 years to gain control. And I continued to work in it over the next 25 years. My last rage incident was when I was 24 about 17 years ago.

I agree 100%, I don't suffer from the disorder that you describe and since I can't know what's it's like you suggest I can't suggest a potential fix.

But I can share my own experience with hope that it could help.

Good luck.

La Belle SauvageFeb 20, 20181 votes

Also, sorry about the marriage and jobs. I hope your situation improves.

ShahamutFeb 20, 20181 votes

I don't think they will, mostly because mute all works good enough.

This doesn't fix OP's problem. He wont see any of THEIR chat, but what he wants is for his chat to be non existent. Basically, he wants everyone to mute him at start of game, but most people wont do that for you, and asking puts people on edge immediately.

Umbral RegentFeb 20, 20182 votes

I personally view the Self-Mute idea in two parts; The first being players' reasons for wanting it, and the second being plausible reasons for not having it.

In terms of players' reasons for wanting it, it essentially boils down to "I can't control myself, can I please have a self-mute?" - which, most of the time to me just translates to "I have no self-restraint and don't want any", but, I digress.

The other half, though, reasons for not having it, I can see one very clear one, which somewhat aligns with what you said, actually.

And Regardless of the OP's diagnosis claim, people can learn to not rage even when they have a Disorder. It's just much harder.

More specifically, I see that the biggest reason for not having a self-mute option is because it would inhibit reform, since reform, after all, is the main reason for the first three tiers of punishment.

And the majority of the people I've seen proposing a self-mute feature were, coincidentally, people who were punished. Which kinda circles back around to the first point - lack of self-control/ostensible laziness.

One other factor as to why I feel self-muting wouldn't be added, is because it hinges on people being conscious of their own bad behavior or negative habits. Someone like OP (assuming their statements of their disability are true) would probably be able to make full use of it.

But, the majority of people who want it want it not because they're consciously aware of their poor behavior, but because they don't want to actively address it, and that in itself would likely leave the feature somewhat underused.

Either way, I'm of at least the same idea that it's unlikely for them to implement it.

La Belle SauvageFeb 20, 20182 votes

This is an excellent reply and you post a few interesting ideas I’d like to explore.

For example and, this is a double edged sword in a way, do you feel it should be up to Riot to try to lead a person to reform by not providing a self-policing feature such as, but not limited to, a self-mute option?

The flip side to that is by not providing a seemingly easy solution does riot in anyway seem nonplused that they have players who admittedly have rage issues and are asking for a fix, but they won’t provide one?

Personally I feel the answer to both of my questions is no. No they shouldn’t be into self-reform and no they aren’t nonplussed or embracing the fact they aren’t doing everything possible (not sure if they should or not, but for the sake of this argument)to prevent random players from raging.

That being said, I also feel they shouldn’t (not sure if they actually want people to communicate via chat or not) try to force people to communicate if they don’t want to via chat. Which circles back to the self-mute option, I really don’t see the harm if they were to implement it, again I don’t think they will.

Yes, I agree- people aren’t cognizant of their own bad behavior, so to them they don’t see an issue (minus the OP who admits it). I agree it would be underused. But how many people use all he features in all games anyway?

You’re very right about the people who propose self-mute are the same people who were punished. But I think at least we should acknowledge that the OP identified his own bad behavior and even proposed a potential solution. That’s a step in the right direction.

ModThe DjinnFeb 20, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bello Bagheera,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IqsIgEQ9,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-20T19:40:47.874+0000)

I feel like if that were true there would be no mute option at all.

The mute option is designed as a fail-safe to avoid harassment when it occurs. A /mute all option would be an encouragement never to interact with other players.

La Belle SauvageFeb 20, 20181 votes

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Yet there isn't a need to actually chat. Pings are the best mode of communication.

Taking the time to type something is a big risk, not to mention people misunderstand tone all the time which leads directly to argument.

I'll conceded if communication could be civil and via voice chat then I agree. The voice chat would mitigate the risk of typing. And civility (although I doubt we will ever have it) would take care of Petty arguments.

Typing chat isn't worth the potential risks.

ModThe DjinnFeb 20, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bello Bagheera,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IqsIgEQ9,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2018-02-20T19:58:44.756+0000)Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Yet there isn't a need to actually chat. Pings are the best mode of communication.

I definitely can't ping "Baron is up in two minutes, bottom inhib is vulnerable, and Twitch is down his flash. I have TP up, so I'm going to force top. You guys push bot, I'll join you, we'll break it open, and have supers in their base in time to take Baron."

Sure, I can ping a lot of things, but for mid-to-long term strategic planning (or comments like "top is pushing hard, and I can stall it for about a minute if you think you can get here for a gank in time") there's no substitute for words.

I'll conceded if communication could be civil and via voice chat then I agree. The voice chat would mitigate the risk of typing. And civility (although I doubt we will ever have it) would take care of Petty arguments.

Typing chat isn't worth the potential risks.

I'd say 90-95% of my games have perfectly civil typed chat, and I type super frequently. A large part of it is knowing how to control the direction of the chat -- if you're good at it, you really can have a lot more great games than awful ones.

P3rspectiveFeb 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IqsIgEQ9,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-20T20:03:24.396+0000)

I definitely can't ping "Baron is up in two minutes, bottom inhib is vulnerable, and Twitch is down his flash. I have TP up, so I'm going to force top. You guys push bot, I'll join you, we'll break it open, and have supers in their base in time to take Baron."

Firstly, nobody actually types like this in game, especially not in higher elos(not sure bout lower ones though)

Sure, I can ping a lot of things, but for mid-to-long term strategic planning (or comments like "top is pushing hard, and I can stall it for about a minute if you think you can get here for a gank in time") there's no substitute for words.

I'd say 90-95% of my games have perfectly civil typed chat, and I type super frequently. A large part of it is knowing how to control the direction of the chat -- if you're good at it, you really can have a lot more great games than awful ones.

Secondly, I highly doubt that in only 1 out of 20 games is there a case of someone being "toxic," even in the slightest. I see games all the time with teammates either A. Raging at others B. Telling someone they're bad C. Insulting D. Any other form of toxicity

And that is all instances of not saying a single word in chat all game. Perhaps if you try to encourage your team more often, in your case, the numbers are indeed different, but I just don't see a constant source of validity that 95% of players aren't toxic.

ModThe DjinnFeb 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}Firstly, nobody actually types like this in game, especially not in higher elos(not sure bout lower ones though)

raises hand

I do. And would any any ELO. Probably not quite as verbose as I did there, but the same content and the same tone, definitely.

Perhaps if you try to encourage your team more often, in your case, the numbers are indeed different, but I just don't see a constant source of validity that 95% of players aren't toxic.

As I said, I did say my games. I go out of my way to foster that sort of environment, and the only point I was making there is that if you make a conscious effort to do that you DO get results.

La Belle SauvageFeb 20, 20181 votes

I see your point Djinn. I wish this was my experience, but typically in my games that I don't mute all? Seem to descend into argument more then actionable advice.

Hopefully as I climb that will change.

ShahamutFeb 20, 20181 votes

mute all already exists.... its just not a single button, but an imput command. It just doesn't stop people from seeing what I type.

ModThe DjinnFeb 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

mute all already exists.... its just not a single button, but an imput command. It just doesn't stop people from seeing what I type.

My point was that it isn't a standard option to just permanently mute all, which seemed to be the equivalent of what the OP wanted. It exists, definitely, but it's something you have to actively choose to do each time.

ShahamutFeb 20, 20181 votes

OP wants the option to do it at all, he would probably GLADLY use it every time. I don't think the OP has expressed HOW he wants the feature, just that he wants it to be there at all.

To clarify, he doesn't want to mute other players: he still wants to be able to see what they are typing, he just wants to prevent himself from ruining other peoples games (and ultimately prevent getting reported) and give himself a self-imposed chat ban. xd

ShahamutFeb 20, 20181 votes

/mute all actually does Mute everyone, effectively disabling your being able to see their chat, but it doesn't stop people from seeing what you type. The goal is to prevent ones self from being able to put toxic words in an area that is visible to other players.

Moving your chat box doesn't stop the issue (Other players can still see what you type). If you are able to unbind your chat button making it impossible for you to access the chat box without first fixing the binding, then that would be good enough, however, I haven't looked to see if that is actually possible.

P3rspectiveFeb 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IqsIgEQ9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-20T19:27:46.963+0000)

I can't speak for Riot, but I personally believe they are unlikely to implement such a feature. I'll explain why in a moment.

First, while there are definitely cases (like yours) where it might help, there are other ways of disabling chat. There are ways to unbind your enter key, for example, or you can move the chat off the screen.

The reason I think Riot doesn't have their own, official way is that they want players to communicate. Putting in an official "stop yourself from ever chatting again" button is basically saying "don't communicate." It's the same reason I feel like there isn't a "default mute all" option.

Or they want players to get banned and make a new account to sink more money into Kappa

ModThe DjinnFeb 20, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Or they want players to get banned and make a new account to sink more money into Kappa

This is a common but incorrect assumption. Banned players are less likely to spend money on League, and you could get just as much (if not more) money and a happier player by just making content they like. Some banned players do come back, yes, but it's not a profit driver by any means.

Jo0oFeb 20, 20181 votes

Hence, the kappa.

ModThe DjinnFeb 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Hence, the kappa.

Oops. Didn't see it was you. :P

Jo0oFeb 20, 20181 votes

It wasn't me, I just assume Perspective is memeing.

ModThe DjinnFeb 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It wasn't me, I just assume Perspective is memeing.

It is a day of much failing for The Djinn. :P

P3rspectiveFeb 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IqsIgEQ9,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2018-02-20T20:06:23.453+0000)

This is a common but incorrect assumption. Banned players are less likely to spend money on League, and you could get just as much (if not more) money and a happier player by just making content they like. Some banned players do come back, yes, but it's not a profit driver by any means.

Hence the Kappa buddy, lmao.

Telephone BoothFeb 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IqsIgEQ9,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2018-02-20T20:06:23.453+0000)

This is a common but incorrect assumption. Banned players are less likely to spend money on League, and you could get just as much (if not more) money and a happier player by just making content they like. Some banned players do come back, yes, but it's not a profit driver by any means.

I think that's why he threw in the Kappa. Edit: God I read his reply literally 2 seconds after this reply lol.

scazzmanFeb 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IqsIgEQ9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-20T19:27:46.963+0000)

I can't speak for Riot, but I personally believe they are unlikely to implement such a feature. I'll explain why in a moment.

First, while there are definitely cases (like yours) where it might help, there are other ways of disabling chat. There are ways to unbind your enter key, for example, or you can move the chat off the screen.

The reason I think Riot doesn't have their own, official way is that they want players to communicate. Putting in an official "stop yourself from ever chatting again" button is basically saying "don't communicate." It's the same reason I feel like there isn't a "default mute all" option.

I think the real reason is that it would be a PR nightmare for people who already lost accounts due to chat related offenses. the other reason is it would actually force them to start dealing with the actual problem. trolls

Jo0oFeb 20, 20183 votes

In addition to Djinn's perspective, I think there might be a liability concern.

By introducing in-client means of limiting one's own behavior, Riot is taking some aspect of responsibility for something that shouldn't be their responsibility, namely the behavior of the individual players. They can reactively police that behavior, sure. But introducing stuff like self-mute might open the door to questioning how they're implementing those features, and whether they're doing a good enough job of doing so. If somebody with $1500 worth of RP tries to sue Riot when they ban his account, the last thing Riot would want to do is debate whether the self-mute option is visible and effective.

I'm not a lawyer and am very much talking out my ass. It's just a suspicion I have.

ShahamutFeb 20, 20181 votes

This is a ghost story as far as possibilities go.

A feature like this could only help the community. People like this who know they have rage issues, and in the stated case, maybe even have a diagnosed disability, self-mute would prevent them from being able to type anything into the all chat box. Thus preventing them from gaining reports for flaming via chat. This will not prevent them from trolling, or int feeding, but it stops the chat which is often a major part of why people get banned.

RIOT isn't afraid of debating anything in court. That is what a good team of Lawyers is for. You would also need to have an opposing Lawyer who was willing to take the case and sue against RIOT, which any Lawyer who wants to make money would decline. If you try to self represent, RIOT can keep you out of court long enough to demotivate you, and if you STILL want to go, they will make short work of you in a court room.

Jo0oFeb 20, 20181 votes

I suppose.

Legality aside, it's just an odd thing to implement. I don't think I've ever played a game with a self-mute option.

ShahamutFeb 20, 20181 votes

It seems odd, I would say, only because its "new" or "different". We are allowed to mute everyone in the game, but we can't make everyone in the game mute us. If, in the OP's case, I know for a fact that I will impulsively rage at people, why not implement a feature that prevents me from being able to do so?

I think this would be a great option. People who flame get reported and banned, and ruin the game experience for others. Why not give him a feature that prevents that behavior from happening, and protects his account? Its not like RIOT would be imposing it on anyone, its basically a self-imposed chat restriction, which gives RIOT fewer reports to have to sift through and allows the community to police itself at least a small amount.

Jo0oFeb 20, 20182 votes

I don't think it's fair to compare it to the existing mute function. Riot would surely prefer that we not use the mute function, but it exists because there's no other way to effectively silence a toxic player. However, there IS a way to silence yourself already: by simply not using the chat function.

Of the population of League, how many people have impulse-control issues such that they cannot help but flame their team, despite multiple warnings and actions against their account(s)? Of those individuals, how many are introspective enough to understand this personal problem? Of those, how many would be aware of the addition of a self-mute function? Of those, how many would make a point of using it, and then resist the urge to undo their selection of that option? After all, if we're talking about people who cannot control their impulse to flame their teammates, wouldn't they also be unable to control their impulse to un-mute themselves?

ShahamutFeb 20, 20181 votes

This kind of tactic is similar to other tactics used in obsessive behavior treatment of other kinds. Sometimes, simply having an extra step to go through is enough to dissuade taking the effort to do so. The extra step acts like a reminder, a trigger, if you will, to not take the undesired action. Impulse, is by definition, a quick decision. Adding steps adds time, and thus opportunity to reconsider. Its not revolutionary thought, its been done. For reference, the "new or different" is only in reference to its being discussed on these boards. Im not contradicting myself :)

Of all the toxic players out there, if you could do anything to help even 1% of them end their toxic behavior pattern, wouldnt you want to do so? I think out of the billions of games played, if the featured improved the quality of even 100,000 games, its a step in the right direction. I also don't believe a feature like this would be a major investment on RIOT's end. They can already chat ban people, preventing them from using the chat feature. They just need to allow people to basically self regulate themselves.

Think about it: How many fewer reports get sent in? How many games could have their quality improved and how many accounts could be protected from ban, simply by allowing people to turn off their ability to type in chat?

La Belle SauvageFeb 20, 20181 votes

Excellent Point.

Ninja AssassinFeb 20, 20182 votes

The answer is fairly obvious. This would be too easy of a solution to the problem. Riot games and players on here are under the impression that their role is that of a counselor whose purpose is to correct your toxic behavior. Instead of the easy solution of allowing you to rage while being self-muted they would rather you get banned and thereby improve your behavior in order to become a "better teammate". This is a good idea in theory, but its application in the context of a competitive online video game makes it seem asinine.

tldr: they want you to get banned and learn from it, so they aren't going to give you the tools to protect your account from your disability induced episodes of rage.

Umbral RegentFeb 20, 20183 votes

Nobody wants players to get banned, but you are right in that we want players to learn from their punishment, if they receive one.

Ninja AssassinFeb 20, 20181 votes

We both know that is just not true. I can find billions of comments on this board sub-section of people either saying that they hope someone gets banned or that they are glad someone was banned or cheeky comments like "you'll be banned soon" or "enjoy your ban". Honestly, just sickens me.

This isn't a rehabilitation center, if players are being toxic but no one else is affected by it, are they really even toxic? There really is no logical justification for an inability to self-mute at this point other than teaching players proper online etiquette. Why the hell should an online video game company be doing this in the first place? This is a video game, not a social media / networking website.

Umbral RegentFeb 21, 20181 votes

I can find billions of comments on this board sub-section of people either saying that they hope someone gets banned or that they are glad someone was banned or cheeky comments like "you'll be banned soon" or "enjoy your ban".

Riot games and players on here are under the impression that their role is that of a counselor whose purpose is to correct your toxic behavior.

So, are you just going to lump a handful of jerks in with the people you just said felt that their role was that of a counselor? Because, you'll find that those are two very distinct groups, and if you're going to make an argument about one's behavior (in this case, your argument that Riot and PB regulars only want to see people get banned), you should be referring to the real group of your concern (the jerks, not Rioters/PB regulars).

Instead, you're taking one groups' actions and pointing at another group entirely as though they're both one and the same.

This isn't a rehabilitation center...

No one said it is.

if players are being toxic but no one else is affected by it, are they really even toxic?

This argument hinges on nobody being affected by toxicity - which, by the way, people do. Before you say that they don't, just note that a good handful of people who use the whole "I was just defending myself" argument were very clearly affected by toxicity - that's the whole reason they often say they retaliate, after all.

(besides, that argument doesn't make sense - "if they're toxic but no one is affected, are they really toxic"? the answer is yes, the fact that they're defined as toxic, regardless of whether or not they affect others, means that they are toxic.)

There really is no logical justification for an inability to self-mute at this point other than teaching players proper online etiquette.

Maybe, but I'm seeing no logical justification for such a feature, either. Besides, quite a few people could use a refresher on online etiquette, as it were.

Why the hell should an online video game company be doing this in the first place?

I dunno, because their rules tie in particularly closely to said online etiquette, and it should be expected of everyone to be able to, at minimum, have that level of etiquette?

Again - you keep asking on one side of it, but don't propose anything for anyone on the other side to consider.

This is a video game, not a social media / networking website.

Aaaaaand that means people should have to deal with toxic assholes flaming and bashing players left and right......How?

Dr Cat PoochFeb 21, 20182 votes

I think it is responsible of Riot NOT to give players a self-mute option, and it is philosophically in line with their stance on player punishments. You're expected to show self control consistently, both to not start being toxic and to not rage in response to toxicity. It's a stance that seeks to improve the character of the player. Self-control is an incredibly useful personal skill, and it will help you win games.

OP, I can understand that you do not have the same ability to exercise self-control as people without the disability you have, but things like that implant are usually only given to alcoholics who have completed rehab (which would, in your case, be either regular mindfulness exercises or getting medication for the underlying condition). I hope you find some way to manage your impulse control, but it's not Riot's job to hold your hand through this.

ProSaladTossFeb 21, 20181 votes

Considering they stand up for other marginalized peoples of the world, I'm surprised they don't care more for the mentally ill. Tiss the stance of most the country. "you have cancer? OMG let me help." "You're an oppressed minority?" Oh we can help that too. "You have a mental illness?" Fuck off, be less crazy.