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Riot complicit in abuse

Gives No Lux··2 votes·490 views

To put it simply, Riot Games condones player abuse. In nearly every single game there is at least one person on your team that flames, trolls, spam pings or somehow otherwise intentionally abuses another person, usually on your own team. Multiple this by two teams and it's a near guarantee that at some point in the game one player will abuse another.

Riot's response is to ignore them in your chosen manner and play your own game. It's the victim's responsibility to endure and/or compensate for the offender's abusive behavior. The report system is completely ineffective for all but the most extreme cases. This doesn't even include the behavior in champ select.

Below is behavior that Riot feels is acceptable based on the fact that it is reported in an overwhelming majority of games but action is only taken in a tiny percentage of cases:

mid ur trash jg you lost the game for us because no gank Surrender fails so sits in fountain flaming team. you're complete garbage uninstall WHY DIDN'T YOU FOLLOW UP YOU F'ING IDIOT YOU MADE ME DIE you fed my lane gg uninstall why? WHY? WTF WHY??!?! gg you lost the game because you're bad at least i have positive score you're trash

The list goes on and is usually much more offensive and abusive but anyone who plays knows this. These same players are regularly toxic in nearly every game but Riot feels that their behavior is fine as long as it doesn't cross a line which usually involves slurs or 9x report.

Every season there comes a point where I simply can't enjoy this game anymore because starting each game I know there's a 90% chance that someone is going to make the experience worse because they want to vent their own frustrations by intentionally abusing another player.

Given the scale of this problem and the fact that it is ubiquitous and persistent from season to season it's a simple conclusion to draw that this abuse is acceptable in Riot's enforcement policy. Consistently toxic players no this too because they even brag about how much abuse they can get away with game after game in chat without receiving any repercussions.

Riot could easily enforce their ToS and at least make players feel that any behavior is allowed as long as there are no slurs but they choose not to so 9/10 games will continue to have these players.

Riot's attitude towards moderately toxic players is the virtual equivalent of telling someone that is in an abusive relationship: "Well, at least they're not beating you, just ignore it and do your own thing"

23 Comments

Jo0o9 votes

This entire section of the forums is comprised of people whining about getting banned. You think they're doing nothing?

"Complicit in abuse" is ridiculous. If you truly feel like you're an abuse victim, play something else. This is just a game, it's not worth getting so affected by.

Gives No Lux1 votes

{quoted}

This entire section of the forums is comprised of people whining about getting banned. You think they're doing nothing?

"Complicit in abuse" is ridiculous. If you truly feel like you're an abuse victim, play something else. This is just a game, it's not worth getting so affected by.

Riot spells out what is acceptable behavior in the ToS. Players breach this ToS with abusive behavior and Riot does not use the tools they have available to stop, correct or even identify the behavior that THEY spelled out. In other words, they are agreeing to look the other way on 95% of the abuse that goes on in their games knowingly. That is complicit.

If it were sporadic or isolated then I wouldn't have an issue but it's so widespread that it's an extremely rare occasion that you encounter a game where not one single player is toxic or abuses another.

Riot has records of every chat from every game so they know the level of abuse. They have spelled out that this behavior is unacceptable in writing yet they ignore the vast majority of the offenses with full knowledge of it taking place.

Chermorg2 votes

Proof that they do not "use the tools they have available"? Proof that it's "95% of the abuse" that they're "complicit" in?

You're providing all these "facts" without any proof.

Gives No Lux1 votes

{quoted}

Proof that they do not "use the tools they have available"? Proof that it's "95% of the abuse" that they're "complicit" in?

You're providing all these "facts" without any proof.

They make ample use of toast notifications in the new client so that tech is there. The tech for machine learning and large scale analytics and pattern recognition is open-source and there is a wealth of talent that Riot can hire, or draw from internally. Those are freely available facts.

As for the 95%, yes, that is anecdotal but fairly easily verifiable. Simply note each time you're in a game where a player violates the ToS and legitimately deserves to be reported for Negative Attitude and/or Abuse. Then count the number of times you receive a notification that a report has been acted upon. For me it's easily less than 1 in 20. The cases that are acted upon are always either 9x report style intentional greifing or use of slurs.

Easily the vast majority of games where teammates can flame the entire game and even mock at the end with 'go ahead, report me, I won't get banned' they are right, they don't and thus go onto flame game after game with no repercussions. No, I don't have access to the analytics but the community experience on these forums and across the internet is proof enough.

Chermorg1 votes

Oh trust me, they use quite advanced machine learning to issue punishments.

Toast notifications really do not have anything to do with punishment.

The notifications are only issued to players whose report was the deciding factor (as in the third game out of three in most times) in issuing a punishment. You will not receive notifications for bans issued manually (i.e. many intentional feeding, trolling, etc. bans) as the systems are two separate systems and there's not a way to notify in game as of now.

Considering the amount of downvotes here, I'd suggest you stop saying "easily verifiable" with information that is at best outdated, at worst flat out wrong.

Gives No Lux1 votes

{quoted}

Oh trust me, they use quite advanced machine learning to issue punishments.

Toast notifications really do not have anything to do with punishment.

The notifications are only issued to players whose report was the deciding factor (as in the third game out of three in most times) in issuing a punishment. You will not receive notifications for bans issued manually (i.e. many intentional feeding, trolling, etc. bans) as the systems are two separate systems and there's not a way to notify in game as of now.

Considering the amount of downvotes here, I'd suggest you stop saying "easily verifiable" with information that is at best outdated, at worst flat out wrong.

Then you just proved my point. Riot has the ability yet nearly every single game there is some form of abuse.

Getting downvotes in a thread about how Riot is far too lenient on toxic players in a forum frequented by people who feel they were punished unfairly/too harshly isn't very surprising.

While you have replied that my information is baseless you also have not denied that your experience isn't similar. So are you saying that the majority of your games don't have at least one person whose behavior violates the written ToS?

If the evidence isn't true then why is the overwhelming evidence on youtube, these boards and nearly all public forums lean towards the in game experience being toxic rather than positive?

Chermorg2 votes

My experience is not similar. Most games I play have very little negativity, and when I do report someone, I have almost never (maybe once, maybe) seen them in another game of mine.

You seem to be forgetting the fact that there's just an overwhelming number of toxic players in League. Riot can block as many of them as they can, but in a game that caters heavily to high school/college age students, there'll always be immature toxic players.

Further, the written ToS is not the basis for the punishments issued. You must realize that the ToS also states "We may terminate or suspend your account if we determine, in our sole discretion..." - note it says may. Riot is under no obligation to enforce it's ToS in any specific way. Riot chooses to let the community, through report statistics, determine what is and is not acceptable behaviors. That's why report calling and saying "gg ez" are now considered punishable offenses. The community overwhelmingly considers those two things to be negative.

Nobody denies the in game experience is toxic. However, your claims of 95%, etc. are baseless and without proof. Until you can provide statistics that prove Riot is complicit in abuse, you cannot claim so without facing the backlash you are facing.

Gives No Lux1 votes

{quoted}

My experience is not similar. Most games I play have very little negativity, and when I do report someone, I have almost never (maybe once, maybe) seen them in another game of mine.

You seem to be forgetting the fact that there's just an overwhelming number of toxic players in League. Riot can block as many of them as they can, but in a game that caters heavily to high school/college age students, there'll always be immature toxic players.

Further, the written ToS is not the basis for the punishments issued. You must realize that the ToS also states "We may terminate or suspend your account if we determine, in our sole discretion..." - note it says may. Riot is under no obligation to enforce it's ToS in any specific way. Riot chooses to let the community, through report statistics, determine what is and is not acceptable behaviors. That's why report calling and saying "gg ez" are now considered punishable offenses. The community overwhelmingly considers those two things to be negative.

Nobody denies the in game experience is toxic. However, your claims of 95%, etc. are baseless and without proof. Until you can provide statistics that prove Riot is complicit in abuse, you cannot claim so without facing the backlash you are facing. If Riot states in their ToS that behavior is unacceptable and they knowingly allow it anyways that is the definition of complicit.

I have not ONCE received a notification that reporting gg ez has been acted upon on hundreds of reports. Again, the system is a failure.

Yours are the only replies that I would classify as 'backlash' and you have taken a rather hostile tone. Nobody outside of a Riot employee would have verifiable proof of report vs. action statistics and they won't release that data. I never said anything about proof, you did. I said that the anecdotal evidence presents that the vast majority of in game abuse is not acted upon. You yourself agree that the community bears this out.

The simple facts are, the system in place does not curb toxic behavior in any significant manner as it's present in nearly every game. Riot knows this. Riot has not corrected the problem.

Chermorg2 votes

You don't always get a notification. Again. You do not. Always. Get. A. Notification.

You're the one stating things that are contrary to what is commonly accepted as fact. Thus, you are the one upon whom the burden of proof lies.

Gives No Lux1 votes

What?? You're the one yourself that said that the community agrees that the environment is toxic and that the current report system does not prevent this. I think that you sir are the one speaking contrary to what is commonly accepted as fact even when they're your own words.

The FACT is that nearly every single game I play there is abusive behavior. From the overwhelming evidence provided by the community this is a common experience.

Meh, I done with you. You're exactly the problem faced in game. You have no interest in a discussion you are only interested in being contrarian.

Chermorg2 votes

Please tell me where I said that most people dislike the current system? Have fun trying to argue when you won't even provide evidence.

News flash, a forum is a back and forth conversation, not a place to go for validation, as it seems you were looking for the latter.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

What kind of behavior do you think they don't punish for? If you're looking for account punishments every time someone is a little rude, that's not how it does or should work.

Gives No Lux1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HkEb0cXc,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-06-13T20:08:43.740+0000)

What kind of behavior do you think they don't punish for? If you're looking for account punishments every time someone is a little rude, that's not how it does or should work.

Like I mentioned before, I am not suggesting punishment for every infraction. My suggestion is to push a notification to the client after the game saying something like 'Your behavior in the previous game was not in line with our guidelines for community behavior. Please try to be more respectful in future games.'

Something that lets the player know that being toxic, but not toxic enough to get banned, is still not acceptable.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

I myself have lobbied for notifications of reports before punishment to help guide people before they need a restriction, but there is one thing to consider there; the notifications must not be consistent and regular. If every time you do something considered negative/punishable you get a message, it allows you to circumvent punishment by learning what is and is not detected. It can't be a tool toxic players can use against the system.

Gives No Lux1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HkEb0cXc,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-13T22:55:21.041+0000)

I myself have lobbied for notifications of reports before punishment to help guide people before they need a restriction, but there is one thing to consider there; the notifications must not be consistent and regular. If every time you do something considered negative/punishable you get a message, it allows you to circumvent punishment by learning what is and is not detected. It can't be a tool toxic players can use against the system.

This is exactly what is perpetuating the toxic culture right now. In fact it's common place to encounter 'experienced trolls' who will excessively abuse teammates and then either act excessively polite to the enemy team so as to not get reported or try the excuse 'I didn't swear at all' or 'I was just giving you constructive criticism' at the end.

With enough games it becomes easy to tell the players that have this attitude every game by they way they act.

archerno17 votes

Riot gave us mute function , noone has to endure anything

Gives No Lux1 votes

{quoted}

Riot gave us mute function , noone has to endure anything

Yes, you do until Riot allows mute all even in champ select as a default. Even if it's just one flaming comment which is against the ToS that still affects the victim and the offender who broke the rules they agreed to when playing the game gets off scot-free.

Zielmann6 votes

No.

It's the victim's responsibility to report the offending players through the appropriate channels (post-game report feature), in order for the player's behavior to be reviewed and, if needed, a punishment to be handed out.

The mute/ignore feature is there to enable the victim to escape the situation in the moment, such that they can go back to focusing on playing the remainder of the game without being forced to endure the continued abuse until the game is over.

Moooose32 votes

Have you read a single post in this section of the forums?

NinjaGuy691 votes

https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy.gif

Gives No Lux1 votes

The threshold for getting banned is WAY past what is considered player abuse. How many times have you reported players who were intentionally abusing other players, reported them and not received any action notification?

The reality is that 95% of player abuse goes unpunished. Requiring 'sportsmanlike' conduct in the ToS then ignoring that and forcing the victim to police themselves is NOT proactive community support.

I don't know about you but at least 4 in 5 games at least one person in the game, if not more, encounters another player who actively tries to make their experience negative. Even if it doesn't go to the extreme that is a ridiculous situation.

It's like if 4 out of 5 ballgames you went to you had someone sitting behind you telling you how much you and your team sucks.

Riot has the tools available to them to deal with all levels of toxic/abusive behavior; mild, moderate, heavy, extreme. They only punish the extreme leaving 3/4 of the offenders emboldened to continue to act the way they do because they know there are no repercussions.

What I am suggesting is an automated system that looks for obvious abusive patterns in the game and after it's over it sends a pop-up to the player telling them that their behavior was noticed, it's not appropriate and violates the ToS. I'm not suggesting they ban everyone that rages, just let them know that their actions are noticed and will have consequences if repeatedly continued.

EvilDustMan1 votes

Both sides of the equation include people. Just as someone shouldn't flame for another having a bad game, you have to allow that sometimes someone has an outburst for a bad game or a bad day. That's why there's a punishment tier system.

Gives No Lux1 votes

{quoted}

Both sides of the equation include people. Just as someone shouldn't flame for another having a bad game, you have to allow that sometimes someone has an outburst for a bad game or a bad day. That's why there's a punishment tier system.

I agree that flexibility is necessary but the problem is so widespread that it should be fairly obvious that there is little or no respect for the current system.

When nearly every single game has at least one person that is intentionally abusing another then it is not just the occasional outburst for a bad game. Besides, do you really feel that if you've had a bad day that it's O.K. for you to take that out on another person just for your own gratification?

The concept of 'I had a bad day so I'm going to rip you a new one and you can either deal with it or mute me' is part of the problem. Why should another person suffer just because you are upset? IMO that's not acceptable and while not banworthy should still be addressed in EVERY incident otherwise it will simply continue ad infinitum.

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