Boards›Player Behavior

I Have an idea how to improve the community! I call it the Mentors Program

Diplomacy Failed··9 votes·758 views

I'm a proponent for encouraging good behavior through rewards rather than simply chat restricting/banning people for their offenses. We are all people enjoying a game, trying to grow as players in turn as people. No one likes being shunned by their own fellow gamers. Getting banned only makes people buy a new account and come back with more rage.

Core Idea We should implement a system that helps elevate players for their ability to control themselves! You're probably thinking, this sounds like the commendations system we've had for quite a while but I want to take it a step further. I want the good attitude players to have a way to talk to players who have been offensive. Sort've like a peer to peer chat.

Reason why People would be more likely to adjust their attitude if they talk to someone else who plays, maybe works out why they had the attitude and if necessary delivers the warning to reform or face consequences. Giving people with lighter offenses a freebie but fair warning to adjust their attitude. This could give players a chance to grow as people as well as increase their performance in future games!

Rewards You're probably thinking, how could riot convince people to volunteer for this? Well, give them free loot, I'm not suggesting Riot hand out free riot points or skins or anything but perhaps key fragments or something for hextech (maybe a shiny banner on their border in load in screen). These incentives will be more geared towards players who play often and engage in the game more frequently while maybe even encouraging players with poor attitudes to reform to become a mentor.

Please share with me your thoughts on how I can develop this idea further, help me show this idea to riot to see if they can see any benefit in implementing it. Feedback is encouraged. - Diplo

28 Comments

ModUlanopo3 votes

You know, I want very badly to say "this is an awesome idea, let's see how we can get it implemented". I have been doing this very thing - volunteering to be a peer guide - all the way back to the first days of the TBI. But, here's the problem:

I believe that people in the moment are emotionally charged and when they've had some time to calm down and think about their actions they're more likely to be receptive of new ideas.

My experience is that this is not the case. Riot ran the numbers a few years back and discovered that whether or not someone reforms has very little correlation with the punishment they receive and that includes the whole gamut from warnings to suspensions (permabans are not intended for reform, they are intended to remove people from the community).

Riot found that about 50% will reform after the first action and that effectiveness drops by about half with each successive step (so 50% at 1, 25% at 2, 12.5% at 3 and so on).

What this means for your suggestion is that most people don't want to change their behavior, they want to explain their behavior and the numbers get worse the more times they have been touched by the system. Every single time someone has come to me personally for help, we start with a long period where I have to keep telling them, "no, your behavior was not okay." Sometimes we get past that phase, sometimes we don't.

Frankly, the real solution is for people like you to help where you can. Be a good role model in game and on the boards. Sportsmanship can be contagious.

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

Riot found that about 50% will reform after the first action and that effectiveness drops by about half with each successive step (so 50% at 1, 25% at 2, 12.5% at 3 and so on).

You're right in thinking that majority of people won't be reformed but I think it could help improve that statistic, nothing can solve the toxic players problem 100% but if we reform more I feel that what I'm proposing could be a success.

And I want to give Riot an easy way to find players that have good attitudes and spread the contagion you know?

ModUlanopo2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Diplomacy Failed,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HeJ19KH8,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-01-22T23:25:10.203+0000)

You're right in thinking that majority of people won't be reformed but I think it could help improve that statistic, nothing can solve the toxic players problem 100% but if we reform more I feel that what I'm proposing could be a success.

Then volunteer your time and effort to prove me wrong. I'm not saying this is a bad idea; I'm saying that Riot is highly unlikely to put much effort into this. I mean, the Arbiters Initiative already does part of what you want, is free to Riot and took almost two years to bring to fruition.

And I want to give Riot an easy way to find players that have good attitudes and spread the contagion you know?

You know what, I got where I am partially by creating the Knowledge Base. Why don't you start a volunteer program and show Riot that it can work?

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

That sounds like the direction I need to head in. I'm going to think tonight before I fall asleep on a better response to give you for this. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

50000000000000002 votes

I don't think I'm understanding this right. So a positive player becomes a mentor, but doesn't do anything as a mentor?

Diplomacy Failed2 votes

Mentors would talk to players that have been reported for offensive dialogue. They would be encouraged to log time talking to these negative players to try to understand why they did what they did and then they would talk to them and give them different ways to go about things.

Like an example would be someone flames their teammates often for feeding gets reported and would normally have a chat restriction. Instead, a Mentor steps in, messages with the player in an anonymous chat and tries to help them with their game mentality. After that, they're given a warning and next report would mean chat restrict or harsher penalties.

Magical Player3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Diplomacy Failed,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HeJ19KH8,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-22T16:02:10.128+0000)

Mentors would talk to players that have been reported for offensive dialogue. They would be encouraged to log time talking to these negative players to try to understand why they did what they did and then they would talk to them and give them different ways to go about things.

Like an example would be someone flames their teammates often for feeding gets reported and would normally have a chat restriction. Instead, a Mentor steps in, messages with the player in an anonymous chat and tries to help them with their game mentality. After that, they're given a warning and next report would mean chat restrict or harsher penalties.

The idea is not without merit.

The problem becomes this is just another early warning device, that doesn't deter people from committing the action that got them the mentor.

What's the driving force that makes people talk to mentors or mentors to talk to reported players?

Anonymous chat, let me stop you there. No, just no. This is not a place of anonymity, riot has access to everything you put into their system.

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

Sorry, I meant anonymous between players, not with Riot. It's important that the players don't know each other's IGN's so the talk can be confidential. Riot is entitled to know who is who, I agree with that.

You are right that it is an early warning device but I want to make a difference between this and most other warning devices. This one isn't a punishment it's a chance for the player to vent some steam or reflect on how they deal with things in game.

We need to start looking at offensive players as mentally ill, because that's truly what they are. They don't know how to deal with the problem in an appropriate manner so they lash out and make things harder. This is just as much about helping them as it is about cleaning up the community.

I learned a lot about my mentality by watching streams and talking to people at higher elos as I started to try to climb in ranked. Better players have better attitudes (generally). The incentives could be hextech loot, banners that flag them as a mentor but the true incentive will be getting better at the game by adjusting their attitudes.

Magical Player3 votes

Wouldn't it be fair to say, that simply by discussing your feelings you became a better player. Riot isn't a therapy center and I can think of no active representations of your idea inside other games of any genre. Riot may be a leader of moba gaming, but they're not taking leaps towards becoming a therapy center.

You're suggesting riot open the door up on new liabilities A) system you suggested works perfectly everyone is better off B) system kinda works, people accept it C) system fails, riot gets sued over forcing people to interact together to become better people

I'm a pessimist(realist) but option C sounds like the most realistic option.

In addition your system would address trolling? how? Just chat related offences? Why not riot just recommend/force self help videos to people?

Again, your idea does have merit.

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

I've thought about this and in terms of legality, Riot would have to set rules before a mentor could become a mentor, past that I don't think they would be liable harm caused by a person it's essentially the same as players talking in game with one another as it is now. You're right in raising the question and I do admit that I am not aware of the legality of the idea.

My goal is to make the feature engaging and not feel like a punishment. Before they talk to a mentor they'd receive a message blocking them from play before they answer it asking if they'd like to talk to a mentor for their offense or receive the penalty that they'd normally get.

Trolling is a negative attitude offense and usually can't be caught without chat logs that prove it or item choices that are definitely troll (like all tears). So most of trolling that is reportable would be handled. The only thing that a mentor shouldn't talk to a player about is intentional feeding reports without merit. Like if a player has a really bad game and their teammates report them for their kda. That has no merit in this system.

This skates along the lines of therapy but really it's just talk between players. Game mentality is a big topic, even at pro play they have sports psychologists that help pro players work on it but when you think about it all sports at schools have coaches that usually handle these issues. Athletes also have teammates that they talk about their problems with, my goal is to extend the league community to a level that can match that of sports.

It's valid for you to think that some people will not get anything out of the system but that's the same with anything like this, some people aren't ready to listen or care to but I think of all the people it could help, mainly the young adults that play this game and I know that it will help put them in a positive direction for sure.

Magical Player1 votes

sports psychologists== therapy.... we're not skating therapy, everyone needs someone to talk to. However is it riots job to force this?

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

I see it like this, if they can improve the quality of the community and the experience for both the people who are flaming and the people who get flamed then they can only profit from it.

Banning people has potential to reduce the community size. Reduced community size can lead to less money which can lead to lower quality of the game and the cycle can continue into downfall.

It is Riot's place to improve the quality of the experience and if that means helping out some people who struggle with social interactions than therapeutic methods are completely viable.

Magical Player1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Diplomacy Failed,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HeJ19KH8,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-22T18:10:52.528+0000)

I see it like this, if they can improve the quality of the community and the experience for both the people who are flaming and the people who get flamed then they can only profit from it.

Banning people has potential to reduce the community size. Reduced community size can lead to less money which can lead to lower quality of the game and the cycle can continue into downfall.

It is Riot's place to improve the quality of the experience and if that means helping out some people who struggle with social interactions than therapeutic methods are completely viable.

However riot is still growing, for every account they ban 10+ open, so in that aspect. Riot wants to keep 10 people happy who will spend money then 1 person who flames who doesn't spend money(anymore)

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

I'm not arguing that right now league is declining in player base. I am arguing that they can hold on to players and not every new players become regulars. It's more financially decisive to try to keep the regulars happy by improving the community.

And in my experience, some of the ragers are big spenders on league.

Magical Player1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Diplomacy Failed,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HeJ19KH8,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-22T19:15:38.347+0000)

I'm not arguing that right now league is declining in player base. I am arguing that they can hold on to players and not every new players become regulars. It's more financially decisive to try to keep the regulars happy by improving the community.

And in my experience, some of the ragers are big spenders on league.

So now the argument is money buys privilege? If a regular is chasing away new customers, then a businesses job is to remove the regular.

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

no. Riot isn't selling a car. Riot is selling an experience. If Riot can enhance the experience they can make it better for everyone. Your argument right now is a+b=c but I'm saying a+b=ab. People who are emotionally impacted by the games deserve the chance to reform how they perceive the issue. Just as much as players who have a bad experience because they've had to put up with someone being emotionally compromised.

You're taking my idea and trying to twist it to fit your argument at this point.

Magical Player1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Diplomacy Failed,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HeJ19KH8,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-22T20:40:14.363+0000)

no. Riot isn't selling a car. Riot is selling an experience. If Riot can enhance the experience they can make it better for everyone. Your argument right now is a+b=c but I'm saying a+b=ab. People who are emotionally impacted by the games deserve the chance to reform how they perceive the issue. Just as much as players who have a bad experience because they've had to put up with someone being emotionally compromised.

You're taking my idea and trying to twist it to fit your argument at this point.

A=1 B=2 C=3 A+B=C A+B=AB 1+2=3 1+2=/=(2)(1)....... if this is what you are saying then your argument is wrong a car salesman is not selling a product they are selling an experience, you buy a car not because you enjoy the idea of owning a car. You buy it because you enjoy the experience of the car.

Let me be very clear, I do not support toxicity when i say this. If you are emotionally impacted by 9 other random people playing a game, then you have no reason to be playing online. I'm not saying you can't play a game and become emotional, Im saying if you feel the need to jump off a bridge because someone said words to you. Then you should not be online.

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

My argument is that implementing the system could help enough players to warrant its existence and you're telling me some won't be helped. That doesn't mean you've proved me wrong.

Magical Player1 votes

I'm saying you may help 5%, great but is it worth it. You're under the assumption that positive players are infectious and will make others happy. Is this correct because that is what im going to discuss further about, based on this idea.

A=1 B=2 C=3 A+B=C A+B=AB 1+2=3 1+2=/=(2)(1)....... if this is what you are saying then your argument is wrong make your math work with what you stated before, im curious to see how its done Each variable has to be unique, please show me a logical solution to it.

Anyways back to the main discourse, people do not spread happiness like a plague. At what %of active users will your system be effective at? Im guessing you'd need about a 15-20% effective ratio for it to be considered. Again, your idea has merit. I just can't see you getting 1 in 5 people to sit around to talk to another human being if they are considered toxic to our current system. Everything Elanopo said as well

Again, legal issues Forcing players to interact to provide consoling and grief support. Anon's talking with eachother, who would take it seriously?

50000000000000002 votes

I'm not sure if it's even possible to sue Riot over being forced to interact with other people. How is it illegal? Worst case scenario is just people not reforming.

Magical Player2 votes

Its more of a liability riot would have to assume, which then becomes a legal obligation for them. Say a child molestor says my life is so hard, baits child into coming to their house, gg riots fault because they forced this interaction. yes extreme case, but it could happen which means it will happen

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

As chat logs would be recorded between the people. There could be flag words that could trigger a bot to notify a rioter in charge of this realm of league. If an issue like that were to occur, it could be prevented.

No interaction in league can be perceived as forced since the player chooses to play and they have the choice to not talk to people and take the penalty. From a legal standpoint I don't think league is responsible for something like that or a moral standpoint as long as something is put in place to deter something like that from happening.

That is indeed something to think about for sure and I'm really grateful for your input, challenging my ideas is exactly what I want because I would like to present a polished idea. Thank you :)

Manaricelle2 votes

Do you believe that a toxic player will listen to another person if they can't even do that in-game?

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

I believe that people in the moment are emotionally charged and when they've had some time to calm down and think about their actions they're more likely to be receptive of new ideas.

But that is a major thing I'm thinking about, I'm trying to think of solutions to make toxic players feel like they're not being confronted/attacked by penalties but steered towards a better way.

Manaricelle2 votes

I hear that alot, "people in the moment are emotionally charged" and that makes sense, but the system works off of repeated offenses. So if the Summoner tends to be in the moment a lt, he may not change. The reason why I am so skeptical is because I have a friend that gets chat restricted all the time and got an account banned once. He's a nice guy, but he "gets in the moment" and acts inappropriately.

I mean, I provide him support, but he still tends to rage and say very harsh things and wonders why he is getting punished.

Not everyone is the same, but you can't really change people they usually remain the same.

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

this is true, but what he's experiencing is a flash of anger, it's really common in most people to just act on their irritation right away but they can train themselves to react to the thought in a different way. A mentor could share their experiences and how initially they felt but how they react in a different fashion, maybe through kindred spirits some of these players can be more willing to change their attitude.

I'm not saying that everyone's going to reform by this nor do results come instantly but perhaps if people get a warning and a talk they might humanize players in the game more and act appropriately.

swordofsun2 votes

I don't think it's a bad idea, but I don't think it should be mandatory. Perhaps as an opt-in in addition to the punishment. In the reform card have an option to talk to someone about why the ban happened and what they can do to be better players going forward. This is a step that I think Riot is missing, too many people come to the boards and don't understand what they did to get punished.

I don't think it should be instead because of course everyone would choose the option to talk to someone instead of being punished.

My other concern would be getting volunteers for the mentor side of the program. I'm hesitant to offer rewards as it would encourage people to do the bare minimum to 'sign-off' on someone, whatever the criteria for signing off would be. Isn't that what happened with the Tribunal? People just voted to the get the rewards and didn't bother to actually read the cases?

Again, I do think Riot is missing the step of having a way for people to discuss their punishments in a private setting so it's not a bad idea.

Diplomacy Failed1 votes

You raise an excellent point. Incentives need to be low enough to not be sought out by people who are only in it for the rewards but also big enough that it lures in the right people to volunteer.

in a different reply I talked about there being a bot that scanned dialogues for key words so no fowl play was going on, I'm sure if people are putting in little effort we can have those dialogues flagged and viewed by a riot employee and have that person removed from the program.

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