Boards›Player Behavior

All Players Should Be Concerned; Can Riot Please Address?

SikhRS··30 votes·3,465 views

I've been noticing a bunch of people coming to this part of boards claiming that they were unfairly accused of using 3rd party applications for unfair advantages/scripting/sharing their accounts. A lot of times the players are believed to be falsely claiming innocence since we tend to have the trust that Riot will honestly deal with these matters (why would Riot needlessly get rid of people who use their product?).

Yet, I'm starting to think there is a flaw with this system. If someone banned for being toxic, they are provided chat logs as evidence for their mistakes. People accused of using 3rd party applications for unfair advantages/scripting/sharing their accounts face bans without any released proof. When I'm reading their posts, I usually get convinced they are telling the truth and feel for them. I remember one person mentioning he had cried after learning his account got banned after being accused for these reasons; he was upset over the time he put into his account and money he spent on skins now wasted.

I think a lot of us would react in the same way. Shouldn't people get a proper explanation for their ban rather than a copypasta? Ex. You used this program on this day. Or your account was found to have been used in Canada 10 minutes after having been used in Texas.

Here is why we should ALL be concerned: what if at least a fraction of these people are telling the truth? If they are, then this could happen to anyone. How would you feel if the account you put so much work and money into was banned solely on an accusation and no released proof?

To Riot: I realize you have good intentions for the community, and like the majority of the community, I'm glad you guys take steps to make League of Legends a great place for everyone. Yet, I'm kind of scared of investing more money into your game (which I really love). These reports of losing everything bought and worked for being gone _seemingly _ without a proper reason is startling. Can you validate that no innocent person has been or will be unfairly banned?

Suggestion: Could those banned for invalid 3rd parties/scripts/account sharing be given more specifics on their offense? Usually when someone is banned for being Toxic and posts their chat logs on board, the error of their ways can be determined by the community and without further Riot involvement.

For more information, here is a link to what Riot considers acceptable and non-acceptable 3rd party programs: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/5dmkJinG-3rd-party-applicationsmodifications-whats-allowed-and-what-isn't

Thank you guys for taking the time to read <3

62 Comments

lolptwo4 votes

Here's the thing...anyone who's not a teenager and is smart enough to know how the boards work know exactly how to make it seem like they are innocent and get upvotes.

The boards is a very low level intelligence "being". For example. It's very obvious this post will get downvoted despite it being true because of my lack of care and being "mean" to the average reader thinking i'm personally attacking them (i'm not)

The average teenager on the board will respond to Permaban as "WTF IM PERMABANNED I DIDNT DO IT PLEASE HELP" to which the boards will naturally downvote and reply " yes you did, you're guilty" blah blah blah.

The average adult will respond some decently formed rebuttal of how they didn't do anything wrong. Which will get people minds thinking however still no mercy for the famous League boards.

The Smart Adult will write a polite, appeal to emotion, details response as to how he's been playing for "X" amount of time, yada yada yada, and a very well written rebuttal to his permaban. To which the boards will upvote and REALLY begin to question.

However time and time again, these people are LYING. Remember the 300 upvoted Army Vet with a family who was "falsely banned" and I was one of the only one realizing he was using appeal to emotion and I was getting verbally attacked and getting called as asshole for stating the obvious about an Army Vet ( i really dont give a fuck)

Just to have him smited down by a Rioter who stated it was extremely obvious he was using 3rd party applications?

Yeah, the boards isn't exactly the best place to judge justice 90% of the time. It's very easy to sway them 1 way or another, if people are truly falsely banned, they can Submit a Ticket and get it reversed. No problem.

46104328_DEL3 votes

I'd say they should be more clear with EVERY ban. When they punish you, they should send you an email with your chatlogs, or proof of your offense.

Cinderhella3 votes

This post. I cried too when I found out I was recently banned. I truly like this game, that's why I have spent so much time and money on it. I understand they don't want people to cheat, I have experienced cheaters first hand, it's not fun to deal with. That's why I would never want to ruin somebody else's game play like that. It's very unfair though that people that actually script or account share are left with their accounts, while I'm punished for doing nothing. I believe that I, as the user and supporter of the game, deserve to know why I am being declined usage of the game. This is certainly something that needs to be brought to Riot's attention. In their reply to me: "We will be unable to clarify further as it would compromise our investigations and initiatives, or overturn this suspension for any reason." This indicates to me that they banned me but they can't tell me why, and there's no way they will cancel the suspension. So no matter how hard I try, even if it is a flaw in their system, I still can't have my account back. And if I can't have it back, what's the point in playing anymore? Sure, I could make a new account, put in all the time and money I did. Own all champions, own over 100 skins, own all the runes...but what's the point? They might just ban me again for all I know. I'm not willing to throw all that time and money down the drain again. Please fix this Riot. Make things right.

SikhRS1 votes

I feel for you :/ I'd be devastated as well. As much as I love League, I'd be too discouraged to make another account if this happened to me. I saw your post on boards and upvoted it. I hope you get another response from Riot.

KarmasPolice1 votes

If you truly did nothing wrong, it means you didn't break the ToS. Which means in theory you can sue them for breach of contract and defamation and win in a US court. But since noone has the funds to do such a thing it probably won't happen. If you spent even a single cent on this game, you are now a paying customer.

Furthermore, you can declare being mentally hurt from being accused of cheating + humiliation and get very nice damages for it.

Destaice2 votes

{quoted}

If you truly did nothing wrong, it means you didn't break the ToS. Which means in theory you can sue them for breach of contract and defamation and win in a US court. But since noone has the funds to do such a thing it probably won't happen. If you spent even a single cent on this game, you are now a paying customer.

Furthermore, you can declare being mentally hurt from being accused of cheating + humiliation and get very nice damages for it.

Section III: Account Information. Part E: Suspension/Termination.

"By Riot Games. RIOT GAMES RESERVES THE RIGHT TO SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY OR DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, AND WITH NO LIABILITY OF ANY KIND TO YOU."

Sorry but no.

KarmasPolice1 votes

Listen, this won't hold in court. Once you pay for a service the terms changes.

The reason why they have it is cause they don't want to be challenged for it, but it doesn't mean that once they do, they will win.

Edit: Oh and by the way, even if Riot teminated your account and they have no liability towards you in that regard. If you've been wrongfully being accused of cheating, you can seek for damages that are unrelated to the account. a pure discrimination/defamation suit. May I remind you that someone sued McDonald's cause he got fat from their food. And won. So if you take this to court and they dont have evidence that you cheated, they'll lose.

Destaice2 votes

{quoted}

Listen, this won't hold in court. Once you pay for a service the terms changes.

The reason why they have it is cause they don't want to be challenged for it, but it doesn't mean that once they do, they will win.

Edit: Oh and by the way, even if Riot teminated your account and they have no liability towards you in that regard. If you've been wrongfully being accused of cheating, you can seek for damages that are unrelated to the account. a pure discrimination/defamation suit. May I remind you that someone sued McDonald's cause he got fat from their food. And won. So if you take this to court and they dont have evidence that you cheated, they'll lose.

The ToS is a contract that you agree to in order to play their game. In that contract you agree that you give them permission to terminate, suspend, or delete your account for ANY OR NO reason.

That McDonald's court case took place in Brazil.

KarmasPolice1 votes

And you can sue Riot wherever they have activities.

Some ToS's aren't legal. Period. Which means it can be voided in court. This has to do with customers' rights.

If I am a landlord, and you sign my contract that has things that contradicts laws that are designed to protect renters, then the court will void your contract. Same thing with companies and ToS.

Firu1 votes

This direction of this argument may not be relevant to the original post. Also, laws depends on state and country.

Sarutobi3 votes

This happens every time they do these 3rd party ban waves. And while i understand the intention of this post, you have to remember people will do anything to get their account back especially if they have paid money for it. People will lie, and its usually a rule of thumb not to trust every single person on the internet. You will always see these types of post because like we said these happen in waves. So its not like they are doing it one by one, plus it usually takes time for them to actively know if these people are using hacks/exploits, again hence why they do it in waves. I wouldnt doubt that they take weeks to months to determine if someone is breaking the rules. But again like i said people will lie. and they usually let it all out in their replies, or even some times in the post itself. Basically if you share your account you are in the same ban waves with people who use the 3rd party hacks. Especially most of the time when you get boosted it involves using some sort of program. Plus its in the rules not to share your account with anyone!

Overall though there could be a mistake and if there is one, or if you feel like you didnt do anything wrong the best thing to do is contact Support, and keep contacting them till you get some answers, usually with a higher up, sadly Riot Support isnt the best and you will get automated messages most of the time, for good reason, because like i said people will lie and try to cheat the system by contacting support and wasting their time! But if you keep contacting them and trying to get someone to actually look into your account they will know for sure if you used any type of hack. They obviously wont give you every little detail so that the information doesnt get out to the wrong hand! But again contact support. If they do find that your ban was false, they will give you back your account!

SeekerofSilence1 votes

Truer words have never been spoken.

In 100% of the threads complaining about unfair 3rd party software bans, I find several reasons as to why they were banned. Even on threads that people have upvoted! Through investigation/discussion we find answers to each and every one of these cases.

I don't pity them. They obviously had a software that was picked up on Riot's radar, or played on a computer that wasn't theirs that had something downloaded. Riot has reasonable reasons to not tell what exactly you were caught for, and if you send a ticket they'll look into your case again. If you get an automated message they DID double-check your account and found it guilty. Instead of wasting time to write a new, unique reply it's easiest to send an automated message (which people seem to misunderstand as "Rito didn't even look at my message waaa").

Overall I'd say to not spam support with tickets, send one and if you're guilty then you better look at what programs you got downloaded and get a new account.

Trídent1 votes

100%

eh, there's that .1% of those threads that are actually about mistake bans

SeekerofSilence1 votes

Link me to that one thread and I'll believe you. :)

Trídent2 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/tips-tricks/RE7XxFM8-dont-use-this-sion-ult-mechanic-or-youll-get-banned

SeekerofSilence1 votes

Cool. It actually happened. x)

Sukishoo3 votes

Oh please, all the people complaining about being "wrongfully" banned are just crying because they were legitimately caught for one thing or another.

In the years I've played league (since season 2) I had ONE warning pop-up on my screen and that's all. It was legitimately wrong because all I did was buy two pairs of boots, I never once said a word in the chat either but after the game was over I had a warning appear. Oh the joy of being a new player, couldn't do anyyyyyyyyything wrong...

I've never had any other kind of warning or ban since that one incident. So people that come here and complain they are getting banned for things they don't deserve are either truly toxic (which a lot of them display in the posts they make) or were caught using third party programs, account sharing, ect.

SikhRS1 votes

Out of all the people who play league, I don't think false bans happen on a massive scale, but I am believing some people who are writing essays trying to convince the community they are being honest. I don't think it's right for the community to assume they're guilty because they got auto-banned without any known proof. One person posted his conversations with Riot after submitting a support ticket, and he repeatedly claimed his innocence while trying to provide suggestions to what could have triggered his ban. If even a few out of the bunch of people getting banned are telling the truth, this could happen to anyone including us.

Telephone Booth3 votes

{quoted}

Out of all the people who play league, I don't think false bans happen on a massive scale, but I am believing some people who are writing essays trying to convince the community they are being honest. I don't think it's right for the community to assume they're guilty because they got auto-banned without any known proof. One person posted his conversations with Riot after submitting a support ticket, and he repeatedly claimed his innocence while trying to provide suggestions to what could have triggered his ban. If even a few out of the bunch of people getting banned are telling the truth, this could happen to anyone including us.

In the end though, does it really matter whether we trust them or not? What are you asking for? A boycott? You want us to protest their game till they start showing us what programs need to be tweaked to get around their detection system? What is the point here?

I hate these pointless speculation threads. What the hell are you trying to accomplish with your speculations that lack any true information? You read these threads and decide whether you believe em or not, as if it even matters. How bout you just don't know? Can you admit that? You only have the threads themselves to go off of, and I could make up any elaborate story I wanted, so how does that help you come to a conclusion as to whether theyre telling the truth or not? It's just speculation and that's the only real truth, you just don't know, because you CAN'T know.

Cpt Jack Bird3 votes

Well, I'm in the banned group (they insist they have definitive proof at player support, but, well), but mostly it seems that as long as people don't largely believe in the existence of false positives, it's not going to hurt riot much to ignore them.

FrankerX2 votes

tl dr?

Zerfallen10 votes

He thinks the current ban wave for 3rd party apps is a flaw in Riot's system.

FrankerX2 votes

well to be fair riot should give out a list of what is not allowed. i understand that ppl are confused

SikhRS2 votes

dsjankjdlsabvkbsavkasbvb The link of that is in post xD I remember someone mentioning being banned despite having used one 3rd party program which Riot said it allowed.

Zerfallen7 votes

I don't want to get involved in this too much, but the majority of the cases on here are a result of account compromise/sharing or boosting where the 2nd party used an illegal 3rd party app.

Most people like to deny it, either sharing the account or that they had some boost them, but, time and again ,when a Rioter responds to the person in question, the lies come out.

I, at this point, have no sympathy for the people getting caught in the ban waves.

Also, Riot gives almost no information on bannable 3rd party apps for a reason, they don't want people to know how they are finding the users violating the ToU or which apps are being detected currently.

SikhRS1 votes

Thank you for your input <3 I can believe that most are guilty, but I wouldn't want someone innocent getting banned. Riot can keep their secrets, but a response from them on the effectiveness of their methods would be comforting. item 3070

Mama Soraka7 votes

I don't have the link because its just something I read in one of these threads where a Rioter was responding, but evidently the actual script detection is sitting at 100% effectiveness.

The thread in question was one where somebody actually DID have an unfair ban overturned though because, while the scripts were being used, it was during a time where his account was demonstrably compromised by another player.

Also I have to agree with Zerfallen in that most of my experience with this sort of thing are the user was boosted and didn't realize they were paying for somebody to use scripts on their account. Then later on after an agonizingly obvious conclusion is reached they admit it.

So I'm confident in the script detection system as well as Riot's willingness to admit when a ban was unwarranted. I hope reading this second-hand can assuage some of your fears.

SikhRS3 votes

Thank you Mauve. As long as Riot overturns unjustified bans and doesn't leave people in the dry, I'm assured :')

Cinderhella2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mauve Thunder,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HTq0lEzW,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-21T03:51:56.159+0000)

I don't have the link because its just something I read in one of these threads where a Rioter was responding, but evidently the actual script detection is sitting at 100% effectiveness.

The thread in question was one where somebody actually DID have an unfair ban overturned though because, while the scripts were being used, it was during a time where his account was demonstrably compromised by another player.

Also I have to agree with Zerfallen in that most of my experience with this sort of thing are the user was boosted and didn't realize they were paying for somebody to use scripts on their account. Then later on after an agonizingly obvious conclusion is reached they admit it.

So I'm confident in the script detection system as well as Riot's willingness to admit when a ban was unwarranted. I hope reading this second-hand can assuage some of your fears.

Also Riot has informed me that no one else was on my account already. "we were unable to determine an unauthorized access on the account during that period." So apparently I have the unauthorized program on my computer. I have no idea what it is. I've had 3 different friends comb through my computer looking for anything Riot may see as cheating...there's nothing. I even told Riot they could have full access to all of my files or anything else they would need. I'm confident there is nothing there. And I want this fixed.

Firu1 votes

Can you list all the 3rd party programs (related to League) you are using here? We can check for you too. It'll be a good personal check as well. If you're hesitant to list a program here, then perhaps you should reconsider if it's a legitimate one to use.

Telephone Booth1 votes

{quoted}

Also Riot has informed me that no one else was on my account already. "we were unable to determine an unauthorized access on the account during that period." So apparently I have the unauthorized program on my computer. I have no idea what it is. I've had 3 different friends comb through my computer looking for anything Riot may see as cheating...there's nothing. I even told Riot they could have full access to all of my files or anything else they would need. I'm confident there is nothing there. And I want this fixed.

The problem is, that's what someone who hates riot and is trying to undermine their system and find loopholes to cheat, would say. So they decide to trust you, show you which program they detected, then you figure out how they detected said program or figure out what triggers it, tweak it, and try again to see if they can detect it. Rinse, repeat, until you find a solid undetectable way to cheat. :/ Sadly, people take advantage of every system ever created and ruin it for honest people. That's life. Capitalism, democracy, communism, there's always someone there to find a loophole and ruin it for the rest of us.

Dr Riverking3 votes

It's nice to know you care about people. I'm getting banned most likely because my account was hacked into not because of the exploits or anything they have told me.

Somebody hacked into my account played 5 games demoted me. I changed my password that day and next thing I know I was banned. So as for you saying someone is boosting, you can just edit that out.

Zerfallen1 votes

Submit a ticket. If the first one does nothing, mark it as unresolved. That should trigger an actual response to your issue.

Good luck!

Firu1 votes

Riot can check where the IP addresses of your log-ins occur. Unless the hacker was your roommate, just email a support ticket. It may take time but if you're being honest than it'll get fixed eventually.

Destaice1 votes

{quoted}

well to be fair riot should give out a list of what is not allowed. i understand that ppl are confused

It should be common knowledge that any software that gives you an unfair advantage would be considered illegal.

That goes for things such as scripts which improve your gameplay. Or mods which monitor things such as cooldowns for you.

SikhRS1 votes

XD A ton of people are claiming to be unfairly banned for using software not allowed/sharing their account. They are provided no proper explanation other than a copypasta. Worrisome because what if even a few are innocent which means anyone can be banned for no reason.

Firu1 votes

A ton of people always claim to be unfairly banned on this forum. [zombie-nunu-tears]

SikhRS1 votes

Yeah xD At least with the toxic ones we can see proof (chat logs). I feel like we presume those banned for cheating to be automatically guilty just because they were banned. I've been noticing that there is nothing these people can say to fully convince everyone they are telling the truth even though they write essays about their situation, which is a lot of typing to cover up a supposed lie that probably won't work anyway.

Meanie402 votes

It's going to take someone who

a) is truly innocent (so that already cuts out 95%+ (being conservative with this number) of the bans) and b) has enough money and desire to litigate this in court, despite the relatively low value of just rebuying everything compared to litigation costs

for anything to change.

So Riot can be relatively confident in their actions.

Anomander2 votes

Honestly it seems more likely all the banned accounts used the same 3rd app/boosting service so they were all picked up en masse. This would make sense for not only detections of 3rd party app but also ip flags for known boosting services........

There is no reason at all that riot should make it easier for people to cheat......and giving information about what program they used/boosting service got caught would just give those services more information on how to avoid detection

Steven Mcburn2 votes

People have a hard time understanding how blessed they are to live in a world post 1770's in the western hemisphere.

They don't get that basic protections, like knowing the charges behind your punishment, are vital to protect innocent people from being punished and not simply to explain to cheaters how they got caught. They read someone asking for that basic right, which protects innocent people, and assume you're trying to aide criminal behavior in some way.

Yes, if Riot told people what specific program or how they detected it people would work to get around it. That's true. But how many scripts do people run at a time? Can't we assume they already know what got them caught? I haven't and won't look into scripting but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume it's not like you run 5 different scripts at once and hope you don't get all 5 caught.

We had the same exact issue when the tribunal was first released and Riot told us they weren't ever going to tell us what caused bans. It took months of begging to get chat logs; and after the chat logs the people who complained about bad bans were mostly legitimate instead of he-says-she-says stuff.

Basically this is something that exists in western society because it's an important tool to ensure that the whatever% of people unfairly punished have some sort of protection against it, but getting online gaming companies to realize it is a straight uphill battle. Maybe some day they'll actually ask historians, philosophers, or constitutional lawyers why it's essential for the public perception of "only fair trials/punishments exist" but they just don't get it yet. I guess that's just the hard part, getting the basic understanding out there so more people understand what those basic protections mean and it's not just crying over bans or whatever.

I feel terribly sorry for anyone who is wrongfully accused, tried, and punished with no recourse or understanding of what happened. It probably happens super rarely, and when it does no one here can help them because they look like any other liar/toxic piece of garbage that posts, but I'm sure it does happen. People are fallible, and the ban system is run by people. It'll never be 100% perfect, but that doesn't mean they can't work to make it as transparent as possible to help quickly resolve issues for that slim margin of players.

SikhRS1 votes

YES YEEEEES. THIS GUY!! Someone with some sense! xD

Cpt Jack Bird2 votes

Yeah, I'm on the permaban-for-nothing list. After a reasonable number of tickets (and they refused to do even this for quite a while), I was able to get them to confirm that, in fact, I wasn't banned for any of the (allowed but still 3rd party) programs I have or have ever had, but in the end, it comes down to they'll say I cheated or that the account did (and sadly for them, no, it wasn't shared -- and showed no signs of tampering, they said, so they can't just sit on that goalpost) and I have the only existent proof I didn't, which can not be shared in any meaningful fashion.

I don't expect the account back, ever, but as a matter of principle, I'm going to re-open/followup my ticket on the matter until one of the game or me are dead.

The sad part is that I should probably stop bothering to level a new account, because the random ban for nothing seems to have quietly killed my friends' general interest in the game.

Cpt Jack Bird2 votes

I do feel like if riot replies to this thread, it'll just be to say without evidence that false positive are always fixed/don't happen, though. Or, you know, they won't respond, because this isn't the best-looking stance for them.

SikhRS2 votes

You're probably right, but I'll keep this up until we get one :c I really want to hear Riot make a statement about all this. Can they guarantee that no innocent people are caught up in these ban waves? Could they acknowledge and properly address those who are writing essays pleading their innocence on the board only to be degraded by the community because of a guilty until proven innocent mentality? Toxic people = multiple chances with proof every time. Accused of cheating? = Insta-ban without any proof.

Çhåryzård2 votes

The reason for the report and the evidence to support it SHOULD BE INCLUDED WITH ALL REPORTS. If they can't provide you with evidence to support their punishment then you shouldn't be punished imo. How can you punish someone if you can't tell them exactly what they did wrong to deserve it.

Abbeypuffin1 votes

how about the gang-harassement where a group of people will be verbally abusive all game long

and whether you kiss their ass or stand up for yourself they report YOU for being abusive

triggering - TADAAAAH - automatic system chat restrictions

meh, chat restrictions, no biggie assuming I was being verbaly offensive

next game S+ and people are honoring your performance, even opposite team thinks you're awesome but you are inelligable for HEXTECH LOOT because "other players" exploited and manipulated an automatic system

chat restrictions are for chat, and should not reflect whatsoever on your hextech distribution.

there should be no reason why HEXTECH loot distribution should be in the hands of TOXIC PLAYERS/GROUPS damned if you do and damned if you don't, "just ignore the toxic players" only escalates their toxic behavior and the fact that nobody else would stick up for the individual being bullied is the "shit icing" on this cake. they cant even tell the difference between somebody being verbally abusive and cant even recognize that somebody didn't even reply... "ignoring" but the CHERRY on top.. is the "chat logs" only showing what YOU said and then the stupid automatic system message "other players deemed your behavior offensive."

we need PROTECTION from the toxic players, not WEAPONS that the toxic players can exploit.... like maybe if somebody files a report on the exact same person filing another report against THEM in return... maybe... maybe it requires an actual human being to read the chat logs and not some automatic system... but on the other hand.... maybe if the automatic system used the index for the adult chat filter and it counted how many times an individual cussed and then compared it to maybe someone who did not cuss, that might actualy indicate the source of the problem ??

maybe I'm just over-simplifying the situation maybe false reports are an acceptable phase of... balancing.

SeekerofSilence2 votes

If you got a ban, the automatic system found toxic words in a majority of your chatlogs. This isn't about one game, this is about many.

And to be quite honest, your comment oozes of "easily-provoked" aura.

Abbeypuffin1 votes

not talking about ban thanks for your reading comprehension tho

SeekerofSilence1 votes

Haha, that's literally the worst comeback I've ever seen. Ever heard the word "chatban"?

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