Boards›Player Behavior

All Players Should Be Concerned; Can Riot Please Address?

SikhRS·4/21/2016, 3:13:00 AM·30 votes·3,465 views

I've been noticing a bunch of people coming to this part of boards claiming that they were unfairly accused of using 3rd party applications for unfair advantages/scripting/sharing their accounts. A lot of times the players are believed to be falsely claiming innocence since we tend to have the trust that Riot will honestly deal with these matters (why would Riot needlessly get rid of people who use their product?).

Yet, I'm starting to think there is a flaw with this system. If someone banned for being toxic, they are provided chat logs as evidence for their mistakes. People accused of using 3rd party applications for unfair advantages/scripting/sharing their accounts face bans without any released proof. When I'm reading their posts, I usually get convinced they are telling the truth and feel for them. I remember one person mentioning he had cried after learning his account got banned after being accused for these reasons; he was upset over the time he put into his account and money he spent on skins now wasted.

I think a lot of us would react in the same way. Shouldn't people get a proper explanation for their ban rather than a copypasta? Ex. You used this program on this day. Or your account was found to have been used in Canada 10 minutes after having been used in Texas.

Here is why we should ALL be concerned: what if at least a fraction of these people are telling the truth? If they are, then this could happen to anyone. How would you feel if the account you put so much work and money into was banned solely on an accusation and no released proof?

To Riot: I realize you have good intentions for the community, and like the majority of the community, I'm glad you guys take steps to make League of Legends a great place for everyone. Yet, I'm kind of scared of investing more money into your game (which I really love). These reports of losing everything bought and worked for being gone _seemingly _ without a proper reason is startling. Can you validate that no innocent person has been or will be unfairly banned?

Suggestion: Could those banned for invalid 3rd parties/scripts/account sharing be given more specifics on their offense? Usually when someone is banned for being Toxic and posts their chat logs on board, the error of their ways can be determined by the community and without further Riot involvement.

For more information, here is a link to what Riot considers acceptable and non-acceptable 3rd party programs: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/5dmkJinG-3rd-party-applicationsmodifications-whats-allowed-and-what-isn't

Thank you guys for taking the time to read <3

62 Comments

lolptwo4/21/2016, 11:40:42 PM4 votes

Here's the thing...anyone who's not a teenager and is smart enough to know how the boards work know exactly how to make it seem like they are innocent and get upvotes.

The boards is a very low level intelligence "being". For example. It's very obvious this post will get downvoted despite it being true because of my lack of care and being "mean" to the average reader thinking i'm personally attacking them (i'm not)

The average teenager on the board will respond to Permaban as "WTF IM PERMABANNED I DIDNT DO IT PLEASE HELP" to which the boards will naturally downvote and reply " yes you did, you're guilty" blah blah blah.

The average adult will respond some decently formed rebuttal of how they didn't do anything wrong. Which will get people minds thinking however still no mercy for the famous League boards.

The Smart Adult will write a polite, appeal to emotion, details response as to how he's been playing for "X" amount of time, yada yada yada, and a very well written rebuttal to his permaban. To which the boards will upvote and REALLY begin to question.

However time and time again, these people are LYING. Remember the 300 upvoted Army Vet with a family who was "falsely banned" and I was one of the only one realizing he was using appeal to emotion and I was getting verbally attacked and getting called as asshole for stating the obvious about an Army Vet ( i really dont give a fuck)

Just to have him smited down by a Rioter who stated it was extremely obvious he was using 3rd party applications?

Yeah, the boards isn't exactly the best place to judge justice 90% of the time. It's very easy to sway them 1 way or another, if people are truly falsely banned, they can Submit a Ticket and get it reversed. No problem.

46104328_DEL4/21/2016, 3:51:30 AM3 votes

I'd say they should be more clear with EVERY ban. When they punish you, they should send you an email with your chatlogs, or proof of your offense.

Cinderhella4/21/2016, 4:53:38 AM3 votes

This post. I cried too when I found out I was recently banned. I truly like this game, that's why I have spent so much time and money on it. I understand they don't want people to cheat, I have experienced cheaters first hand, it's not fun to deal with. That's why I would never want to ruin somebody else's game play like that. It's very unfair though that people that actually script or account share are left with their accounts, while I'm punished for doing nothing. I believe that I, as the user and supporter of the game, deserve to know why I am being declined usage of the game. This is certainly something that needs to be brought to Riot's attention. In their reply to me: "We will be unable to clarify further as it would compromise our investigations and initiatives, or overturn this suspension for any reason." This indicates to me that they banned me but they can't tell me why, and there's no way they will cancel the suspension. So no matter how hard I try, even if it is a flaw in their system, I still can't have my account back. And if I can't have it back, what's the point in playing anymore? Sure, I could make a new account, put in all the time and money I did. Own all champions, own over 100 skins, own all the runes...but what's the point? They might just ban me again for all I know. I'm not willing to throw all that time and money down the drain again. Please fix this Riot. Make things right.

Sarutobi4/21/2016, 6:25:58 AM3 votes

This happens every time they do these 3rd party ban waves. And while i understand the intention of this post, you have to remember people will do anything to get their account back especially if they have paid money for it. People will lie, and its usually a rule of thumb not to trust every single person on the internet. You will always see these types of post because like we said these happen in waves. So its not like they are doing it one by one, plus it usually takes time for them to actively know if these people are using hacks/exploits, again hence why they do it in waves. I wouldnt doubt that they take weeks to months to determine if someone is breaking the rules. But again like i said people will lie. and they usually let it all out in their replies, or even some times in the post itself. Basically if you share your account you are in the same ban waves with people who use the 3rd party hacks. Especially most of the time when you get boosted it involves using some sort of program. Plus its in the rules not to share your account with anyone!

Overall though there could be a mistake and if there is one, or if you feel like you didnt do anything wrong the best thing to do is contact Support, and keep contacting them till you get some answers, usually with a higher up, sadly Riot Support isnt the best and you will get automated messages most of the time, for good reason, because like i said people will lie and try to cheat the system by contacting support and wasting their time! But if you keep contacting them and trying to get someone to actually look into your account they will know for sure if you used any type of hack. They obviously wont give you every little detail so that the information doesnt get out to the wrong hand! But again contact support. If they do find that your ban was false, they will give you back your account!

Cpt Jack Bird4/24/2016, 4:39:20 PM3 votes

Well, I'm in the banned group (they insist they have definitive proof at player support, but, well), but mostly it seems that as long as people don't largely believe in the existence of false positives, it's not going to hurt riot much to ignore them.

Sukishoo4/21/2016, 6:48:13 PM3 votes

Oh please, all the people complaining about being "wrongfully" banned are just crying because they were legitimately caught for one thing or another.

In the years I've played league (since season 2) I had ONE warning pop-up on my screen and that's all. It was legitimately wrong because all I did was buy two pairs of boots, I never once said a word in the chat either but after the game was over I had a warning appear. Oh the joy of being a new player, couldn't do anyyyyyyyyything wrong...

I've never had any other kind of warning or ban since that one incident. So people that come here and complain they are getting banned for things they don't deserve are either truly toxic (which a lot of them display in the posts they make) or were caught using third party programs, account sharing, ect.

Anomander4/21/2016, 6:45:49 PM2 votes

Honestly it seems more likely all the banned accounts used the same 3rd app/boosting service so they were all picked up en masse. This would make sense for not only detections of 3rd party app but also ip flags for known boosting services........

There is no reason at all that riot should make it easier for people to cheat......and giving information about what program they used/boosting service got caught would just give those services more information on how to avoid detection

FrankerX4/21/2016, 3:17:54 AM2 votes

tl dr?

Meanie404/21/2016, 1:01:36 PM2 votes

It's going to take someone who

a) is truly innocent (so that already cuts out 95%+ (being conservative with this number) of the bans) and b) has enough money and desire to litigate this in court, despite the relatively low value of just rebuying everything compared to litigation costs

for anything to change.

So Riot can be relatively confident in their actions.

Steven Mcburn4/22/2016, 3:23:52 AM2 votes

People have a hard time understanding how blessed they are to live in a world post 1770's in the western hemisphere.

They don't get that basic protections, like knowing the charges behind your punishment, are vital to protect innocent people from being punished and not simply to explain to cheaters how they got caught. They read someone asking for that basic right, which protects innocent people, and assume you're trying to aide criminal behavior in some way.

Yes, if Riot told people what specific program or how they detected it people would work to get around it. That's true. But how many scripts do people run at a time? Can't we assume they already know what got them caught? I haven't and won't look into scripting but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume it's not like you run 5 different scripts at once and hope you don't get all 5 caught.

We had the same exact issue when the tribunal was first released and Riot told us they weren't ever going to tell us what caused bans. It took months of begging to get chat logs; and after the chat logs the people who complained about bad bans were mostly legitimate instead of he-says-she-says stuff.

Basically this is something that exists in western society because it's an important tool to ensure that the whatever% of people unfairly punished have some sort of protection against it, but getting online gaming companies to realize it is a straight uphill battle. Maybe some day they'll actually ask historians, philosophers, or constitutional lawyers why it's essential for the public perception of "only fair trials/punishments exist" but they just don't get it yet. I guess that's just the hard part, getting the basic understanding out there so more people understand what those basic protections mean and it's not just crying over bans or whatever.

I feel terribly sorry for anyone who is wrongfully accused, tried, and punished with no recourse or understanding of what happened. It probably happens super rarely, and when it does no one here can help them because they look like any other liar/toxic piece of garbage that posts, but I'm sure it does happen. People are fallible, and the ban system is run by people. It'll never be 100% perfect, but that doesn't mean they can't work to make it as transparent as possible to help quickly resolve issues for that slim margin of players.

Cpt Jack Bird4/22/2016, 5:38:56 AM2 votes

Yeah, I'm on the permaban-for-nothing list. After a reasonable number of tickets (and they refused to do even this for quite a while), I was able to get them to confirm that, in fact, I wasn't banned for any of the (allowed but still 3rd party) programs I have or have ever had, but in the end, it comes down to they'll say I cheated or that the account did (and sadly for them, no, it wasn't shared -- and showed no signs of tampering, they said, so they can't just sit on that goalpost) and I have the only existent proof I didn't, which can not be shared in any meaningful fashion.

I don't expect the account back, ever, but as a matter of principle, I'm going to re-open/followup my ticket on the matter until one of the game or me are dead.

The sad part is that I should probably stop bothering to level a new account, because the random ban for nothing seems to have quietly killed my friends' general interest in the game.

Cpt Jack Bird4/23/2016, 12:10:40 PM2 votes

I do feel like if riot replies to this thread, it'll just be to say without evidence that false positive are always fixed/don't happen, though. Or, you know, they won't respond, because this isn't the best-looking stance for them.

Çhåryzård4/23/2016, 5:29:09 PM2 votes

The reason for the report and the evidence to support it SHOULD BE INCLUDED WITH ALL REPORTS. If they can't provide you with evidence to support their punishment then you shouldn't be punished imo. How can you punish someone if you can't tell them exactly what they did wrong to deserve it.

Abbeypuffin4/21/2016, 3:04:49 PM1 votes

how about the gang-harassement where a group of people will be verbally abusive all game long

and whether you kiss their ass or stand up for yourself they report YOU for being abusive

triggering - TADAAAAH - automatic system chat restrictions

meh, chat restrictions, no biggie assuming I was being verbaly offensive

next game S+ and people are honoring your performance, even opposite team thinks you're awesome but you are inelligable for HEXTECH LOOT because "other players" exploited and manipulated an automatic system

chat restrictions are for chat, and should not reflect whatsoever on your hextech distribution.

there should be no reason why HEXTECH loot distribution should be in the hands of TOXIC PLAYERS/GROUPS damned if you do and damned if you don't, "just ignore the toxic players" only escalates their toxic behavior and the fact that nobody else would stick up for the individual being bullied is the "shit icing" on this cake. they cant even tell the difference between somebody being verbally abusive and cant even recognize that somebody didn't even reply... "ignoring" but the CHERRY on top.. is the "chat logs" only showing what YOU said and then the stupid automatic system message "other players deemed your behavior offensive."

we need PROTECTION from the toxic players, not WEAPONS that the toxic players can exploit.... like maybe if somebody files a report on the exact same person filing another report against THEM in return... maybe... maybe it requires an actual human being to read the chat logs and not some automatic system... but on the other hand.... maybe if the automatic system used the index for the adult chat filter and it counted how many times an individual cussed and then compared it to maybe someone who did not cuss, that might actualy indicate the source of the problem ??

maybe I'm just over-simplifying the situation maybe false reports are an acceptable phase of... balancing.