Popular claim: "League is dying". Let's talk if and why.

Snowman Arc··2 votes·2,226 views

Anyone using these boards has occasionally seen the classic thread: "League is dying", and it's usually after a big patch. Some new thing comes out that shakes up the meta, everyone just believes it's the end of League. Everyone thinks that it's the worst change ever and people will quit and League will die. Yet, so many bad patches after, the game is still running and pulling good numbers.

So, let's talk about it. Is League really dying? We don't know, it's a 50-50 at best. And I don't like to place my hat on maybes, I like facts, 100% truths. Truth is, compared to other games, League is indeed losing popularity. 3 years ago, League was by far the most watched game on Twitch, it's not anymore. There's an indication. Quite a lot of my friends that played the game do not play anymore, or play much much less. There's another indication. Yet, both of these facts are not solid proof. Maybe it only happens to me, and Twitch viewership is not something concrete.

So, League dying is still a 50-50, I'll even say it's 60-40, for the sake of the following argument as to why that is. So, why is League supposedly dying, or, even more precisely, if League is gonna die, what will really lead to it?

I read that people blame it on Riot's gameplay decision making. "Oh, the scuttle crab changes are horrible, I quit." "Oh, ADCs are OP, I quit". "Oh, top laners are useless, I quit." People seem to think that the main reason people quit the game is some horrible game play change. And that's where I tend to disagree. It's not that. It's the toxicity.

I started in season 5, because some friends talked me into starting League. I was playing quite a lot of normal games with a lot of premades, even 5 people quite often. Sometimes, even, we'd play custom 5v5s. That's how many friends I could play the game with 3 years ago. Do you know how many real life friends I can play the game with now? 0. Most of them quit, and a handful of them just play once a week, at best. I talked to every single one of them about why they quit. Some of them got a job, which was the reason they couldn't play. Too many hours a day wouldn't allow them to. That'a fine. Most of them, though, quit, or stopped playing as much, because of the toxicity.

People need to understand that the playerbase is huge, and there is only a very small percentage that uses these forums. What is said here doesn't really reflect what the casual player base thinks. Casual players just play 3-4 games a day, just to have fun, relax, and fill up time. That's the truth. Not everyone is competitive, not everyone watch streams or esports. And that's why you see a lot of the player base being in silver; because they don't really care about climbing and all that. And hey, more power to them, sometimes I wish I didn't care and only had fun in the game with all its flaws. Do you know what drives those players away? It's not the game play. It's not because of some scuttler change, or because ADCs are OP. No, because casuals do not know anything about that. Some of them don't even read patch notes. They don't know, they don't care. They just pop in, play some games and leave.

I'm talking about the biggest majority of the player base here, and the thing that drives them away is toxicity. A flamer, a feeder, and inter, a troll, an AFKer will tilt EVERYONE, casual and non-casual. It's a fact that toxicity in the game has increased WAY too much during season 7 and 8, especially season 8, even I have become toxic myself. Most of my friends quit because of it. We would go on a game, somebody would flame, it would create negativity, suck all the fun out of the game. One, two, three, ten, a hundred times, eventually they only put up with it for so long, to the point the quit. They just couldn't have fun in the game anymore, when someone would constantly flame, or someone would troll them. It wasn't because their favorite champion got nerfed, or that they couldn't climb because of the game updates. It was purely because of toxicity. Immature players ruined any fun they had in the game.

This happened to my friends. I think it's safe to assume that it happened to a lot of your friends as well. Therefore, if the game is indeed dying, it's not because of some petty game play change. No, it's because of the huge amounts to toxicity plaguing the game. Because, at the end of the day, having fun in the game is not about if you can claim a scuttle crab; it's about if you can play into a friendly environment, where all players try their best and the better team wins. Gameplay is just secondary and was never a huge problem. Every huge problem was eventually fixed. Toxicity is only increasing, and it's sad that it's the biggest reason why it drives players away.

17 Comments

Mordepool5 votes

The league I fell in love with in Season 2 is long dead. Doesn't mean that the game we have now isn't good. It has its problems but it has its charm. I

ModThe Djinn3 votes

I think it's a little silly to say League is dying.

Basically, it's super uncommon for any game to manage to stay top of the pack over a long time, given the pace of big game releases and the tendency for something to pop up as the "new hot thing." See Overwatch, Fortnight, Player Unknown: Battlegrounds, etc. League might not be top of the top of the pack any more, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere CLOSE to dying.

In fact, as a 8+ year old game, it would be really impressive if it were still top of the pack. A game that old that's still popular tends to fall more into the realms of World of Warcraft -- still big, still not really in danger of dying, but rarely the player's hot new thing. It's instead a good, comfortable, fallback game that you pick up again when you've tired of the hot new trend and want something familiar and reliable. League may be closer to this state now than the #1 game in streams and media, but that doesn't mean it's dying -- or even anything close to dying. League, at its height, was big enough that shedding a few million players doesn't really impact it hugely at all, and it could lose about half its playerbase and STILL be one of the biggest games in the world -- maybe not top 5, but still well in the top 20, which is more than enough to keep going strong.

Snowman Arc1 votes

I think you missed the point of this thread. It was about how toxicity drives people away.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HHnukgsB,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-05-20T17:27:13.811+0000)

I think you missed the point of this thread. It was about how toxicity drives people away.

I understand that -- I was just commenting on part of the assumption, which is that League is dying. That statement -- which is largely incorrect due to the circumstances above -- actually detracts from the statement "toxicity creates an environment people want to stick around in," because it pitches a bigger issue with people leaving than actually exists, and comes off as doom-saying against evidence.

For what it's worth though?

I think it's safe to assume that it happened to a lot of your friends as well.

Most of my friends have actually had their experiences with toxicity decrease recently. While anecdotal, I'm not sure either of us have the data to really comment on large-scale trends in League's toxicity, or whether that's what causes players who choose to leave to leave.

Snowman Arc1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HHnukgsB,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-05-20T18:09:26.014+0000)

I understand that -- I was just commenting on part of the assumption, which is that League is dying. That statement -- which is largely incorrect due to the circumstances above -- actually detracts from the statement "toxicity creates an environment people want to stick around in," because it pitches a bigger issue with people leaving than actually exists, and comes off as doom-saying against evidence.

For what it's worth though?

Most of my friends have actually had their experiences with toxicity decrease recently. While anecdotal, I'm not sure either of us have the data to really comment on large-scale trends in League's toxicity, or whether that's what causes players who choose to leave to leave.

Well, I didn't really claim it's dying, more like the decreasing numbers are mainly because of toxicity. Also, for your second point, I wanted to refer to my own personal experience, since I Have no access to other data, but I felt it was safe to assume it's a common occurance.

YerroFever2 votes

The people who claim league is dying are the ones who get punished for their toxic behavior and claim Riot is killing its own game with punishing toxic behavior and permabanning people.

The "league is dying" cry isn't something people should believe from people who say it because they've been punished. There was this streamer who went on a rant about how league was dying and how he had irrefutable proof that league was dying and league is still here. League has a huge presence. Every year when League is at Pax, the lines get longer and longer.

What the toxic people say is that they are the average player and that if riot permabans the average player, they won't have a player base left... instead of looking it as "if we permaban 1 toxic person, it's more likely that the non-toxic players will stay." Riot says by its numbers the hyper toxic players are in the minority which means they're spraying the proverbial medicine on the diseased parts of the plant with punishments and then pruning the rotten un-savable parts by permabanning the hypertoxic players who don't reform, to make sure that the rest of the plant stays alive.

Gall1 votes

Toxicity is a good topic to talk about, but it's almost futile to discuss since Riot can't have a strong control over it. It's kind of like saying bullying is bad, but there's nothing humanity can do to fully stop it from occurring. Though toxicity exists, I don't think League is dying and it probably never will unless a fresh new MOBA takes its place. It may have peaked at one point, but the MOBA genre is too unique to have a loyal chunk of players never come back to it (and League is quite different from DoTa, HotS, Smite, etc.).

Snowman Arc1 votes

Well, you can take way harsher punishments in a game than you can take in real life. You can't really do a lot real life. I mean, you can't really as a parent go to a school and beat up the bully. Or call your big brother and beat him up. In League, you can permanently ban players who are toxic, though. It's just that Riot doesn't care as much. They only thing they care about is their image as a company, therefore, as long as they ban people who promote sucide (by saying kys mostly) and racist / homophobic slurs, they are fine in their book. After all, it's all about the image you show, right? As long as you show a game with no racism and no homophobia, you are destined to become successful, sponsored etc.

That's why they are very strict in those areas. In other areas of toxicity, though, they really don't give a shit. You can int every single game and Riot will do nothing. You can AFK, troll every game, and Riot will still do nothing, apart from a leaverbuster. And that's why most of my friends quit; they just couldn't cope with all that toxicity.

Thee Pie Man1 votes

They ban a lot of people for AFK, Troll and etc. It's just 'trolling' in general is harder to define as a whole compared to someone just having a bad game. A complete tear set right when the game ends- can you claim this person was trolling? There's other factors about them that aren't there so people that are trying to just be silly at the end of game block out that approach. People don't seem to understand that there's no surefire way for Riot to ban out Trolls when they start to show those behaviors because the behaviors lean between certain behaviors that could be seen as just having a bad game out of a few or etc. Hundreds of thousands of people play League so it's just as likely to get someone blowing off steam as someone that isn't.

Not really sure what you're trying to say here. You want them to make punishments harder than permanently banning? People have been banned for things like "Moron" being the last straw, or simple harassment if they had bans before. You become on such thin ice that if you so much as type anything against your team you're practically binning that account. I think the punishments are fine. And there's no way you can AFK and troll every game, Leave buster will get you and eventually you will get banned for it, and trolling every game? Please. There are outliers to all issues but I'm pretty sure they do get caught eventually. But Riot wants to try and give people the benefit of the doubt, and wants to try to give people chances to clean up their act. Some people do, some people do not.

afmghost1 votes

League is waning in popularity. I think it has a few more years before it starts to die, though.

DeloricVI1 votes

Personally, I have a few reasons why I quit on a consistent basis.

  1. Balance Problems

There is simply no way to keep League of Legends in a balanced state for all of the game's audience. Just because Zed is balanced in professional play where everyone has the reflexes of a god and the predictive skills of see previous, doesn't mean that in Bronze he's not going to just shit-stomp everyone. You know, bronze. Where everyone has the map awareness of a blind cartographer, and the reflexes of a dead sloth. And, of course, as the mid laner, it's your fault because you didn't follow them, despite the fact that you pinged bot lane 17 times before he showed up.

And that's not to mention that it's been eons since AP mages have gotten any good new items, where it seems like Riot is constantly adding new tank and AD items. And, I mean... would it kill them to give us at least make Seeker's Armguard not a horrible waste of gold against assassins? Please?

Not to mention, seasons go from Season 7 to where games last far too long and are super frustrating, to season 8 where the end in 12 minutes and are also somehow just as frustrating.

I'm not saying that Riot needs to chuck out everything about eSports, but roughly 90% of their playerbase is contained within unranked accounts, and people in bronze. So, it's understandable that some people in bronze might be really frustrated and they might leave. This is why we see such a disconnect on the forums - from what I can tell, the forums have a much more even ratio of bronze to higher level players, so threads asking about balance or ranting about changes in the balance of the game get smacked down very quickly by higher level players, and there's a lot of fighting about it.

  1. Alternative Options

Most people started league of legends like you did, with real life friends. Now, the gaming landscape has changed. It's just not as easy to assemble the 5 teammates you want, especially if the team started years ago, when the members had nothing better to do. But, life goes on. In the span of 3 years, your friend group may have people graduating from college, or joining the work force. They might be starting med school or law school or something, for all I know. These are things that happen that end up breaking up full teams in league of legends.

And, when teams dissolve, there isn't as much of an incentive to keep playing, and, sometimes, people float to other games that their friends who moved on play, or that they can play with a different group of friends.

Not to mention that people are really discounting how popular Fortnite is - it's single-handedly killing a long list of games that are either in beta, or are relatively new.

  1. The eSports Focus

By and large, I think this is one of the biggest, if not the biggest issues, a lot of people have. It kind of overlaps with the balance problems that lower level players are going to experience, but combined with them pushing eSports, and having players tell them they are just bad at the game because they aren't as good as Faker or BoxBox or some other popular player, they feel like the game isn't a place for them. They start to feel like this game isn't meant for people of their skill level, and that they aren't welcome.

And, really, it's very hard to play at a high level, because of the sheer amount of information that you need to memorize to be a good player, and all the matchups you have to study.... and, even if you're really good at one role, if you don't at least have a good idea of what the majority of champions do in the game, you can get utterly destroyed by some oddball pick like Sion support, or Lulu top. I've seen it happen - I mean, most people know the Lulu top was and still (kind of) is a thing, but they're not usually prepared for it, and will often lose to it because they don't have the game knowledge to know how to handle the situation. And that's just a small facet of what you need to know.

This game is incredibly complex, and there are several things that you might not even know to do, because it just never crossed your mind, and no one ever told you to do it.

In the end, I personally feel like the ranked queue is kind of a playground until you hit like... plat or diamond. Because, really, from bronze to even gold, you can just see wacky things happen, that you either aren't prepared for, or just don't understand how to deal with.

And eSports have gotten boring. No one makes any plays anymore. You don't have like... crazy aggressive things happening in mid these days. It's because they know that farming is key, and they could risk it all and get a huge lead... but inching ahead by slowly and surely denying CS and grinding down your opponent slowly but surely is the safest and most often taken option. I just don't watch eSports, but Riot is constantly pushing it.

  1. The stupid paywall

Seriously, Riot has gotten more and more out of line with their payment system. Now that they've combined runes and masteries, you need to buy rune pages to play the game, unlike mastery pages were you could have a rather large number for free. At the very least, back then runes weren't that influential. But now, you can't just play with no runes.

Oh sure, you can buy them with BE... or, because they're ludicrously expensive and it will take you literal months to accumulate 6,300 BE unless you play constantly for hours per day, you better be happy with changing your runes on the fly. And since you can do that, it makes it pointless to have us pay for rune pages in the first place. It's not like you're locked into the two pages you're allotted, with a few boilerplate standard ones and that's it. You can change the runes at champion select - rune pages are a scam that just make things slightly more convenient.

Not to mention that they keep saying it's easier to get new champions with the new level-up rewards, but I think it made things markedly worse.

Let's say, for argument's sake, you want to unlock Pyke on launch when he comes out in a few weeks or whatever. You're going to need 7200 Blue Essence. Let's say you have 1200 Blue essence. How long will it take for you to grind up to enough blue essence? Well, the only way you can obtain blue essence by itself is your daily win bonus of FIFTY BLUE ESSENCE. So, if we were to assume that there are no other missions that grant blue essence, and that you don't level up or have any champion shards to disenchant, that means you'd be grinding for a grand total of 6000 blue essence, and that means it will take you 120 days, or 4 months.

But, let's be realistic. Let's say you level up once every two days, and you get the minimum amount of loot every time, 810 Blue essence. But, since no one is a machine and no one is going to crush all of their champion shards indescriminantly, let's say you level up twice per week instead of once every two days to account for chests that contain shards for champions that you want. So, that leaves us with 350 BE off first win of the day, and round it out to about 1600 blue essence just to make the math easy. That means, you'd be grinding for over a month to get enough essence to buy this new champion, and you'll have spent ALL of your essence. That means you have nothing to fall back on if you wanted to fully craft a new champion out of shards you get later.

And, finally, the Blue Essence cost is too damn high on champion mastery. I spend months saving up the 8000 Blue Essence that I currently have - I don't want to blow over half of it on upgrading my mastery emote to a shinier new one, so I'm going to stubbornly wait for a champion shard of the champion whose mastery I want to increase. I had to wait 6 months for a final Veigar shard to drop - not kidding. I had 3 mastery tokens for Veigar for 6 months before I saw the shard I needed.

Now combine the fact that you have a 1/130 (possibly less) chance of you finding the champion that you want to try out next, and that champions are absurdly expensive to not only get mastery for, and absurdly expensive to buy without a champion shard, and you have a crafting system that I absolutely hate. Should I crush my Urgot shards? Well, no, because I just started playing him, and I like him enough that I want to get his mastery completely decked out for when I wipe the floor with some top lane scrubs, so I'm not going to get that Blue Essence, I'm going to sit on that champion shard for a few months while I grind out some Urgot mastery tokens. Should I disenchant those Nidalee shards? Well, I have no desire to play her now... but what about later?

This indecision is just a killer of my spending power, so I'm sitting on like... 60 shards, and I'm afraid to disenchant them in case they'd be useful later.

And, hextech crafting is BS now that they've added emotes - just saying. I barely get skin shards anymore out of chests. It feels so super cheap to get a summoner icon, and 2 emotes in a row.

  1. Champion Neglect

There are some champions that Riot hasn't tried to make viable for years who have their die-hard fans. And when you're a die-hard Teemo player, no Teemo builds are viable, that hurts. And, I've felt this. I can't play Veigar anymore. Everyone's playing Katarina, or Ekko, or Zed, and they're just too agile. Your stun is too slow to catch them, 99.9% of the time, and your mana issues early make for an easy lane for assassins. Not to mention that Electrocute does WAY too much damage early on, something that Veigar can't handle. He hasn't been changed to reflect the current state of the game, and I can't deal with this new mid lane setup.

Not to mention that, when they change runes and not the champions affected, they can end up super weak and unplayable.

Hell, I feel really sorry for Amumu players. He hasn't been super viable over another pick for an awful long time, and is in desperate need of a rework. Like, seriously, I wonder how people even still play this champion in the state he's in.

But, hey, that's just my 2 cents' worth.

Snowman Arc1 votes
  1. I won't comment on it. Balancing a game like League is very hard, almost impossible. People should realize that and try to accept that it can't be achieved.

  2. I agree. I made a post recently about how addiction works. Basically, you are addicted to something, because there is nothing else going on to make you happy. Once something new comes up that makes you even happier and can fill that gap, the old addiction goes away. So, as you said, any other hot game can take League's place, or other real life issues, like school, job, relationships etc can as well.

  3. I don't really believe that people get offended that they are not on the level of a pro player. Also, I still have fun watching esports, and yeah, the game would always go to the state it's in right now. In seasons past, you would see more solo kills and solo plays, because people hadn't had the knowledge about the game they do now. The more you know....

  4. Wait, what? You don't need multiple rune pages now. Only one works fine. You can adjust it during champion select. The old system is what required a lot of rune pages, because you couldn't adjust them in champ select. But yeah, I do agree that getting blue essence now is very unrewarding. Even though you can buy a lot of champions with the champion shards, it still seems like such a huge unclimbable wall.

  5. Yeah, certain champions are simply unplayable. Whenever I hear about unplayable champs, the first that comes to mind is Amumu. I still think that there are so many champions out there, that even if your initial favorite one is bad, you can pick up on something else. I started at season 5 because I first watched some esports game, where Kalista was #1 ADC, so she became my favorite, along with that season 5 Ryze. They reworked Ryze, so I dropped him, they gutted Kalista, so I dropped her. Picked up Viktor for mid lane to find a lot of success, and Sivir. After having Viktor gutted, I had to pick on something else. I picked on Maokai. Free elo, to be frank. They gutted him again, mainly his waveclear, that made it very clunky for me. So, this season, I picked on Janna. While all that happening, I played Hecarim, and now a lot of Graves, with some Jax, Irelia as well. No matter what, I'd always find some new champion to fall back on. Quitting the game just because your #1 favorite champion isn't as strong is a stupid excuse, if you ask me. There are literally more than 140 champions in the game. If you can't have fun with more than 1, then you shouldn't really play League.

Leto GT1 votes

I play amumu regularly and have great results. It's one of my main from season 2 so that's maybe why but he's doing great assuming you're putting some time to understand how weak champion works in the jungle. I use electrocute on him which does devastating damage even early on. The new patch doesn't change much for him because you would do a 4 camp clear even before.

Snowman Arc1 votes

I don't know dude, Amumu seems really trash to me. If you every face a good jungler with a good champion, you will get smashed hard. I play Graves a lot and I can say that I'm ok in the jungle, I know my paths, my match ups etc. If I see weak junglers like Amumu, it's almost a guaranteed win. They just never get any farm since I invade them hard etc.

That's assuming you play against good players, though. Seeing how you are in silver - gold, and haven't played ranked in the past 3 years, I can't really trust your word. Maybe Amumu wasn't abusable back then, but certainly is now. Maybe he is good in identical match ups, like vs a Sejuani or something, but most junglers are now playing Graves, Xin Zhao, Warwick, Elise etc and Amumu just doesn't stand a chance against those.

Leto GT1 votes

I haven't played ranked for some year Indeed. But I was plat 2 the last time I ranked so my knowledge about the game is pretty fine. A player recently got challenger just by spamming amumu to confirm my point. You bring Graves on the table, you can kill both graves and Elise in a lvl3 match with electrocute as amumu - graves gets amor on E not magic resist while Elise is squishy beyond imagination. The fact that players don't choose to play amumu sounds pretty weird to me honestly, it's a very strong and impactful champ. I wouldn't say you can kill a xin tho. Now electrocute may sounds cheesy but it works perfectly fine in the current meta.

To be added that graves especially is not that much of a thread since his projectiles reset his amumu's E pretty fast. I believe that if you win those "weak" amumu, it's probably because they don't understand the champ fully and especially his new passive that ppl have a hard time understanding. Now if you catch him low hp in jungle well... Sounds to me more like a skill issue than an amumu issue since you can replicate it for pretty much any junglers.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Maybe you're right, maybe I'm also playing against weak players as well. But I haven't seen Amumu in a very very long time and I haven't heard of any talk about him being viable. So, coupled with the fact that I stomp any Amumu I see, I assumed that he is in a bad place. Maybe Electrocute is good for his early game. It makes me curious to try him out to be honest.

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