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My idea on bringing back a more efficient tribunal

XinZhao2WinNhao··2 votes·494 views
  1. Stick with no rewards for tribunal judges so that there is no incentive to vote a certain way that you think others are more likely to vote in order to increase accuracy rating and get rewards.
  2. Tribunal judges will be volunteers just like it was before.
  3. Add replays to the tribunal.
  4. Tribunal judges have to cite 3 pieces of evidence from the replay or the chat logs that explains why they punish if they pick punish. If it's a really serious offense, then they only have to cite that one offense. If they pardon, they have to explain how the person was not toxic and why they pardoned. (so no random spam click punish or pardon)
  5. Tribunal judges on the same case that are online at the same time can chat with each other in a tribunal chat box where they could exchange opinions and ideas.
  6. Have a majority report and a dissenting report explain why people who voted one way voted that way, and why people who voted the other way voted the way they did.

16 Comments

elduris5 votes
  • Add replays to the tribunal.
  1. Tribunal judges have to cite 3 pieces of evidence from the replay or the chat logs that explains why they punish if they pick punish. If it's a really serious offense, then they only have to cite that one offense. If they pardon, they have to explain how the person was not toxic and why they pardoned. (so no random spam click punish or pardon)
  2. Tribunal judges on the same case that are online at the same time can chat with each other in a tribunal chat box where they could exchange opinions and ideas.
  3. Have a majority report and a dissenting report explain why people who voted one way voted that way, and why people who voted the other way voted the way they did.

I get where you're coming from with these points, but don't you think it's a little much? Like, if you're not getting any kind of reward and you're doing this as a volunteer, why even bother taking the time to watch a replay, cite 3 pieces of "evidence", chat with other judges about one case, and then create a report about why you clicked punish? The replay itself could be an hour long, so you're spending multiple hours on one game.

I find the volunteer Arbiter stuff rewarding in different ways. I don't get any kind of special treatment or bonuses for doing this. But I have met a lot of cool people and have learned a lot about myself and the community since I started. That's its own reward in my eyes, so I guess you'd have to find people with a similar mindset to work on this new Tribunal. Though let me tell you, even though I enjoy this, the work:reward ratio for this proposed Tribunal is way off for my taste and I'd avoid it like the plague.

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

I think the people who volunteer for tribunal would do it because they truly see something rewarding about improving the League community without being monetarily rewarded for it. Also, if you want to watch funny replays sometimes tribunal would have them. I think that Tribunal would be like jury duty except that you volunteer instead of getting drafted, and I believe that while the majority would not like it, just like the majority would not like jury duty, there are enough people who actually like it because they can be a voice in League player behavior standards, etc. I think that one of the problems in the old tribunal is that many people just spammed either punish or pardon and there's without looking at the chat logs. Especially in the past when there were IP rewards for tribunal volunteers, many of them would just join tribunal and spam decisions really quickly in order to get their IP rewards.

Not everyone would have to make the majority/dissenting report, just the one spokesperson for each side who is randomly selected. Everyone else would just agree on selecting lines from chat as evidence or if it's trolling/int feeding case, then finding a moment in the replay where it shows that.

But thanks for making an actually thought out response rather than just downvoting without explaining. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Timethief491 votes

im guessing it would take about 1 day per case if the people only do it on weekends its 2 per week im guessing you wont find more volunteers than 100 to make this every week would be 33 cases per week im guessing there are much more MUCH more to work through per week

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

There are 70 million LoL players. Let's say that only 1/100 of LoL players would want to work in Trubunal. That's 700,000 volunteers. Each case would probably not take that long. If it's a chat case, the punishers would just have to agree on 3 examples of verbal abuse. That takes about 15 minutes. If it's a replay case, they'd have to watch the replay and then cite evidence,so that's about 1 hr 15 mins.

Timethief491 votes

You excessively overestimate the common league Player. They want to play the game, not look through boring replays and even if I hardly expect 3 of them to get on the same Solution in 15 minutes

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

The replays aren't boring. I gotta say you can see some funny shit in the tribunal.

xReadyPlayerOnex1 votes

{quoted}

I get where you're coming from with these points, but don't you think it's a little much? Like, if you're not getting any kind of reward and you're doing this as a volunteer, why even bother taking the time to watch a replay, cite 3 pieces of "evidence", chat with other judges about one case, and then create a report about why you clicked punish? The replay itself could be an hour long, so you're spending multiple hours on one game.

I find the volunteer Arbiter stuff rewarding in different ways. I don't get any kind of special treatment or bonuses for doing this. But I have met a lot of cool people and have learned a lot about myself and the community since I started. That's its own reward in my eyes, so I guess you'd have to find people with a similar mindset to work on this new Tribunal. Though let me tell you, even though I enjoy this, the work:reward ratio for this proposed Tribunal is way off for my taste and I'd avoid it like the plague.

You're taking this seriously....

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Mimy3 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh3KE_37JfY&index=6

Only good thing about tribunal coming back..

Man In Sky3 votes

Downvoted

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

Might you care to explain why? This isn't a meme forum, this is where people actually share ideas to decrease toxicity.

ModPrandine1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Stick with no rewards for tribunal judges so that there is no incentive to vote a certain way that you think others are more likely to vote in order to increase accuracy rating and get rewards.
  2. Tribunal judges will be volunteers just like it was before.

I have no problems with these.

  1. Add replays to the tribunal.

Eh, I don't think that's necessary considering the majority of cases are for verbal abuse. Now don't get me wrong it would help for some cases, but not for all.

  1. Tribunal judges have to cite 3 pieces of evidence from the replay or the chat logs that explains why they punish if they pick punish. If it's a really serious offense, then they only have to cite that one offense. If they pardon, they have to explain how the person was not toxic and why they pardoned. (so no random spam click punish or pardon)

Um, why? This would just slow down the process even more than it did before. Also, if I'm not mistaken spammers were also punished for spamming punish/pardon in Tribunal cases.

  1. Tribunal judges on the same case that are online at the same time can chat with each other in a tribunal chat box where they could exchange opinions and ideas.

Again, I feel that this would just slow down the process even more than it normally would. While this might help for the more tricky/grey-area cases it's ultimately up to each individual themselves to decide in the end whether a case is truly worth punishing or pardoning.

  1. Have a majority report and a dissenting report explain why people who voted one way voted that way, and why people who voted the other way voted the way they did.

Again, this would just slow the process down even more than it was before. If people have taken their time to thoroughly review the case to the best of their abilities then that should be good enough in my opinion.

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

" If people have taken their time to thoroughly review the case to the best of their abilities then that should be good enough in my opinion."

I think that this is the problem, that many people don't do that. I've known friends who punished when they're in a bad mood, or pardoned just because the chat logs/flaming was funny. In my proposed system they would have to look at the actual evidence.

TrulyBland3 votes

But then you are still stuck with the sentence he said right before that quote:

Again, this would just slow the process down even more than it was before.

Tribunal wasn't removed because it was too inaccurate (which it really wasn't), but rather because it was absurdly slow. The whole idea of the current system is its name: "Instant Feedback". Some cases took months to actually process through the old Tribunal. And that massive backlog resulted in multiple problems:

First and most obvious: It can't reliably weed out players when it's this slow. It also cannot really deter players properly either. It fosters the good old "Let future me deal with this problem"-attitude, where people can be assholes now because chances are it will take a long time before they even receive their first punishment.

Secondly: It ultimately made Tribunal more lenient, because no matter how old the case itself is, voters are presented recent games when they finally get to vote on it (which makes sense for its own reasons). So somebody that may be a gigantic douchebag in half of his games but plays extremely rarely can get away with it by having a short streak of neutral games at the right time.

Last but not least: Even though recent games were used, there was still a massive disconnect between these peoples' actions and their punishment. They might have figured that their behaviour was acceptable to some degree, because they went months without being punished... and when they finally do get punished, it might still be for a game they no longer even really remember (since "recent" is still a fairly large timeframe). Short version: The slow punishment might make people form a habit and fails to point at mistakes when they're still fresh. So even if you ignore that Tribunal took way too long to punish people - if it ended up punishing them at all - it was still extremely bad in terms of reforming.

Your suggestions mostly revolve around improving the old Tribunal's accuracy (which wasn't that bad; its specificity for example was very high), while making the actual problem it was having even worse.

ilikemonky1 votes

Seeing both sides of this argument, wouldn't the best solution be for the bot algorithm to expand its categorization system?

Currently it seems to have a pardon, punish lite, and punish heavy setup based on the evidence as the bot sees it however if you took the system and added an undecided group then only those cases could be sent to tribunal leading to a more streamlined system where the backlog should be much smaller.

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

Bot algorithm will pardon a Blitzcrank who intentionally hooks enemy ADC towards their low health team.

Human with replay will rightfully punish.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

It would be alot better than the automated garbage we've had for the last couple of years which bans people for calling someone "bad" but does nothing about people who feed or troll.

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