This is why new players are quitting

big fat frog·Jun 9, 2018·6 votes·5,248 views

Low level norms are an absolute disaster right now. They're supposed to be a safe haven for new players to learn how to play League of Legends. Now, however, the average difficulty is around the level of Plat ranked games, and the toxicity is off the charts.

If I were playing low level norms right now on my first account after joining the game, there's no question that I would not keep playing. It's a trainwreck. Everyone in there is either dodging a ban, smurfing to train a new account, or both. It's hopeless for new players.

This video discusses these points, and proposes a couple of potential solutions. Let me know what you guys think.

22 Comments

ChermorgJun 9, 20186 votes

What you and the video fail to realize is that you aren't new. The only way to get a valid estimate of new player experience is to take someone who has never played league, don't explain them anything that isn't in the tutorial, don't coach them, and throw them in to games by themselves.

Truly new players like that are matched with other new players. Players who are Smurfs are matched with other Smurfs. New players duoing with old players or Smurfs will be matched with Smurfs. The difference in skill between a Smurf and a truly new player is so massive there is virtually no chance a truly new player playing games on their own will ever find a Smurf in their games until they're at least level 15-20, if even then.

big fat frogJun 9, 20183 votes

Yeah, except every game has been like this, including my first few. There are clearly obstacles in the way of Riot's matchmaking perfectly separating smurfs from non-smurfs.

ChermorgJun 9, 20183 votes

It can be very obvious, within one game, whether you are a Smurf or not.

It is literally impossible for someone who knows about league and is not intentionally feeding to appear as a new player.

I further doubt that your first game was like this, but I won't argue with you because I know you won't accept it even if I do look at the stats.

3TWarriorJun 9, 20181 votes

what if said player is experienced with mobas but not with league?

dota for instance takes a similar approach to league but has way more in it

Crow NebulaJun 9, 20183 votes

{quoted}

What you and the video fail to realize is that you aren't new. The only way to get a valid estimate of new player experience is to take someone who has never played league, don't explain them anything that isn't in the tutorial, don't coach them, and throw them in to games by themselves.

Truly new players like that are matched with other new players. Players who are Smurfs are matched with other Smurfs. New players duoing with old players or Smurfs will be matched with Smurfs. The difference in skill between a Smurf and a truly new player is so massive there is virtually no chance a truly new player playing games on their own will ever find a Smurf in their games until they're at least level 15-20, if even then.

No, that's complete bull. I was a new player just over a month ago, and in my very first normal I went 0-18, despite practising hard in co-op games beforehand. My second game wasn't much better, I was Aurelion Sol mid matched up against a Yasuo who easily took my whole team apart. And the toxicity was off the charts. It put me off SR for good, so now I just play Aram, and that's how I've been learning the game.

XidphelJun 9, 20183 votes

No, that's complete bull. I was a new player just over a month ago, and in-

So you're using your own personal experience. That means little especially when saying that Chermo is completely wrong.

IcyPepperJun 9, 20181 votes

Problem with Cherm is that he said:

there is virtually no chance a truly new player playing games on their own will ever find a Smurf in their games

Maybe Crow is the outlier, maybe not. But despite what Cherm said, Crow's experience isn't invalid either. We would need more data to support either claim.

AkheteruJun 9, 20181 votes

I don't care about that fancy little tag next to Chermorg's name. I started roughly two months ago, and my experience has been exactly the same as Crow Nebula's.

Crow NebulaJun 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

So you're using your own personal experience. That means little especially when saying that Chermo is completely wrong.

The debate is about new player experience, so of course my experience as a new player counts.

ArammusJun 9, 20185 votes

without watching the video: i remember when i was new. i got flamed so extremely hard and ppl told me i get banned for ruining their game/feeding. i was literally so scared that i played over 500 games vs ai's before i slowly came back to normals. and when i leveld a smurf alone and one with a friend (who was new at the time) it was literally the same. the toxicity is really insane in low lv games.

big fat frogJun 9, 20182 votes

This, I think, is becoming the average experience. Sorry to hear that you went through all that crap, but it's good to be validated on some of my thoughts.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 9, 20184 votes

Now, however, the average difficulty is around the level of Plat ranked games, and the toxicity is off the charts.

I don't see how this can possibly be true when only the top 10% of players are even in plat.

Please explain those stats to me. You're telling me that there are more diamond players playing norms than bronze players?

Hexs FortuneJun 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I don't see how this can possibly be true when only the top 10% of players are even in plat.

Please explain those stats to me. You're telling me that there are more diamond players playing norms than bronze players?

Great point here

big fat frogJun 9, 20181 votes

Just giving my take as a player in Plat myself. Low level blinds literally do not feel any easier.

That doesn't mean every single player is plat level, just that the distribution of skill across teams makes it average out to the difficulty of a game in plat.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 10, 20183 votes

That math doesn't make any sense. How can the average of a number set be in the top 10%?

I think a much more likely explanation is that the system is correctly assessing your skill, don't you?

big fat frogJun 10, 20181 votes

Column A, column B. Again, when I say the average difficulty is about plat level, that does not imply the average player is about plat level. Just that winning the game is as difficult as it is in Plat.

And I'll tell you that I'm still being matched with and against players who are clearly new -- the majority are, in fact.

ChermorgJun 10, 20181 votes

So, you're saying that there are a lot of players in norms who are playing at a plat level but are somehow not plat?

Pika FoxJun 9, 20183 votes

Itt, people who trigger smurf detection think the smurf experience is the new player experience.

KZ EngelJun 9, 20181 votes

actual new players rarely get placed against smurfs

his solutions are bad. just completely get rid of bans for words. change chat restriction to chat ban. then, on the off-chance that a new player gets placed against a smurf, it's not a smurf that couldn't care less about their account.

EkitaihJun 10, 20181 votes

Honestly, I think that the first option that was proposed in the video would be counter intuitive to what you are trying to establish. If you want new players to stay, but punish on a single infraction, then odds are, they won't stay. Plus, how would we determine that single infraction? What would be the parameters? If they were mildly toxic, would the get the immediate ban? What if the only thing they said the entire game was "noob." Permaban? I think that system would be a bit too harsh. The second system is no better, IMO. If someone says the aforementioned "noob" and gets a warning about being permabanned, would they really want to stay? In a system that is so harsh? It would alienate new players as much as a toxic player might. I mean, having a toxic ban system is probably worse than having a toxic person, that you can just mute. I think the biggest flaw in your argument is the fact that you are using your own experience in this video. You have no other evidence other than that of your own, you have no "new player experience," because you aren't a "new player." The system in place determines whether you're a smurf or not and decidedly places you with other smurfs, which should be the case. Your skill level is typically determined by ten games, if I'm not mistaken (I feel like I read this somewhere, although I wouldn't be able to produce those links as I don't remember where I read it. So, take it with a grain of salt.) Your own experience should be coupled with evidence from several other experiences to provide more accurate results. This is called research. Rather than make assumptions based on a single experience, research is required to make an educated theory. I'm not saying that there isn't an issue. Everyone knows that the system isn't perfect, but I don't think your suggestions would really fix anything. In fact, I feel they would do more harm than good.