So I guess its clear that you guys think playing the champ you want is not griefing?

BoRnToKiLL666·2/19/2020, 9:03:44 PM·1 votes·8,028 views

So if i decide to take farm and play the game I want its not greifing if im trying to win? So I can pick support vayne and as long as i am trying to win then its not considered griefing? To me thats hard griefing, trolling and inting so why do you guys say that isnt griefing?

72 Comments

ZackTheWaffleMan2/19/2020, 9:06:35 PM8 votes

as long as you don't intentionally give kills to the enemy, it's not intentionally feeding.

on the other hand, the line between "off-meta" and griefing/trolling is more disputed and somewhat controversial

rujitra2/19/2020, 9:06:36 PM6 votes

Because support vayne actually has quite a good kit for being a support. She has a disengage and/or engage depending on how it's used (E) - she has a high damage output which makes the enemy think twice about going in on fights. Her passive gives her a little boost to secure kills that may otherwise have gotten away. She has mobility to be able to use all of the above.

It's not inting because it has nothing to do with feeding - playing a champion is not at all related to actions taken in game, thus it by definition cannot be inting.

It's not trolling because again, trolling is actions taken in game. Your OPINION may be that it's suboptimal - but other players are not obligated to agree with you. In fact, if I had a vayne support, I'd not be angry at that - I don't even think it's necessarily suboptimal depending on the team comps.

Griefing... see above.

Picking a champion is not trolling. Champions are not role locked for a reason. How do you think we ever got things that are "off meta" like Soraka top? Because Riot doesn't let people like you force your narrow-minded opinions on other players.

Hemulen Magi2/20/2020, 12:02:37 AM4 votes

Creative experimental play is supposed to be encouraged. If someone theory-crafts a new strategy in good faith and it just doesn't work, then losing games should be the only penalty. Judging what's done in good faith and what's done explicitly for griefing is subjective, but Riot needs to give players the benefit of the doubt in unclear situations because discouraging experimentation is one of the most direct ways to stagnate and kill the game.

Champion selection is not enforced. Players can pick whatever they want as long as they play in good faith to win. If someone wants to play Skarner top lane, it's their call. You may not agree with someone's decision, but champion pick is an individual choice. In your mind, you can convince yourself all you want that someone's off-meta pick is to blame for a loss, but it doesn't make their actions punishable. If the MMR system functions, then it already accounts for sub-optimal strategy. If the meta is truly optimal, then any off-meta players getting matched with you must be compensating with having better micro or macro skill than you to have similar MMR, unless if you are increasing MMR quicker than them, in which case you'll probably not play with them specifically again anyways.

Role is enforced, however, support is a positionless role. Just like junglers can gank whichever lane they want, supports can support whichever lane they want. If a jungler chooses to camp mid instead of top, it's their call no matter how much the top laner accuses them of griefing and threatens to report them. A support roaming frequently or even supporting a different lane than bottom is allowed. For example, if someone wants to start by supporting mid in order to maximize their paths to roam, or if the support wants to spend the first few minutes leashing multiple camps for the jungler, those are valid strategies. Even if the support decides that another lane has better opportunities to support during the match (ie., their bot laner is constantly disconnecting), it's not punishable for them to adjust their strategy to support the more capable carry in the other lane.

It's also not against the rules for the support to take CS as long as they give laners priority to CS when they're both in lane. The reason it's forbidden for a support to take the priority to CS in a lane when the laner is present during laning is because the laning roles (top, mid, bottom) have priority access to their role's position by definition of those roles, just as jungler has priority access to jungle camps by definition of their role [if you snipe camps from your jungler, it's just as bad as if the jungler walks by your lane and smites the cannon minion while you're there]. It's not part of the bottom laner role definition that they get a babysitting support of their choice or they get to call for reports and then afk.

Pika Fox2/19/2020, 9:52:20 PM1 votes

If you queued as support and take CS, its not griefing.

If you queued ADC, and got autofilled support, its griefing.