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The issue lies in directly affecting game play, not someone calling out someones actions.

Finessed by Kat·7/12/2019, 9:48:25 PM·2 votes·1,688 views

  • This is a legitimate constructive criticism against the current report system -

    I have been playing league since 2015 so I'm pretty sure I am have enough experience to know how the community is. I have seen and lost many friends on league solely because they were permanently banned for getting angry at a troll. The problem at hand is that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY gets mad at anyone for no reason whatsoever (now I understand that maybe some people project their anger onto others due to bad last game or personal issues but this is not what this is about, this would be unnecessary flaming). There is almost definitely always a reason behind why they spoke up and out.

    Through observing player game play (whether it be team mates or enemies) trolling and intentionally feeding always has the GREATEST impact on the state of the game. Through that, it branches off into people getting mad and telling the troll/inter what they are doing is not cool, it is losing the game, they are intentionally feeding, they aren't helping by acting the way they are, and they are being a childish nuisance. The game goes on and slowly over time the entire game is ruined because of someone planting that seed.

    The best way to fix an issue is stopping it at the root, not just covering up the damage done and expecting the problem to fix itself. It is simple cause and effect. One person trolls (and to define trolling, anyone who intentionally works against their team.) then it directly and negatively impacts another players game play experience. This is NOT to be mixed up with having a bad game. Someone running it down a lane, stealing cs, purposefully displacing/affecting team mates characters (tahm kench E, bard R, etc), afking in front of enemies, and generally just trying to mess the game up would be easy to differentiate from someone getting outplayed.

    The reason I bring this up is because it seems that the people who troll have a LOT more leeway than the people they mess with. IE, there is a school room full of children. They are asked to split off into two groups and make the best project. There is Group A and Group B. Group A works together, they ALL put in the same effort and work as hard as they can (although, this does not mean they are all providing the same final result). Group A got an A-, but they tried and supported each other so that's all that matters. Now, Group B starts on the project, they put in hard work and effort, but there is one child (we will call him Timmy) in Group B who is taking apart the project as it is being made. Timmy is taking away glue sticks from the other children, stealing their scissors, cutting up others' work in the project and basically just ruining the project. The other kids in Group B get mad, they tell the mischievous child "Stop that!" "You are ruining the project!" "Why are you doing this!" "You are going to make everyone get a bad grade!" then they run to the teacher to tell on him. The teacher dismisses the children and tells them "You are being rude to him! So what if he is messing it up? He isn't complaining, so leave him be!" The children go back to work on the project and finish. They end up getting an F because of their completely failed project. They are sad, they will never get the chance to redo the project and must accept that. The next day another project is due. The children are asked to split off into two groups again. Group A works together and puts in as much effort as they can. Meanwhile, Group B is forced to work with Timmy again. Timmy destroys their project like he did yesterday and they get mad at him, the children tell on him again. The teacher tells the children "That is it! You are being mean! Timmy may not be working with you but at least he is working and not complaining! You are getting sent to the principal and wont be able to take this class anymore!" Group B is dismantled and Timmy laughs that the other children failed AND got in trouble. Timmy is pardoned and is sent to Group A. Timmy destroys Group A's project but they say nothing. Group A now makes an F for failing to make a project. The children are sad that they will never be able to redo the failed project. The next day Group A is split into Groups A and B. Timmy continues to mess up projects, and the cycle continues.

    The analogy above is the same exact problem with our report system. You can virtually do anything and everything even if it means losing the game, but if you speak even one word you are at fault and take the blow. People are becoming numb to this and stop caring about whether or not what they do is beneficial to winning the game, because playing the game just to play is seen as more important than playing the game to ACTUALLY win. You are "rewarded" for sitting through 30 minute to one hour games, wasting your own time and energy just to lose because someone WANTS you to lose, but punished for speaking out and expressing your thoughts on their behavior.

    In the above analogy, both groups could have made consistently better grades if Timmy were subject to taking accountability for his actions. If the teacher were have stopped him sooner, less projects would be ruined, less time and energy would be wasted, more children would be in better moods (cause and effect, better mood would lead to better teamwork). Trolls absolutely must be able to be told by their team mates that what they are doing is childish, wrong, and absolutely unacceptable by members of the group. If they don't take accountability, their behavior gets worse. and more people will stop caring.

Start punishing these people and start rewarding actual teamwork. Instead of rewarding you for staying silent and in a corner.

THANK YOU FOR COMING TO ME TED TALK!

8 Comments

Zardo7/12/2019, 9:54:59 PM7 votes

In my experience analogy B is way different. It starts with someone in group b calling someone bad, calling them slurs, and just going off on them for pretty much no reason, then the person in group b who got attacked sabotages the project.

I rarely see people flaming trolls. I rarely see people flaming inters. Instead, I see people calling others trolls and flaming them for "trolling", but they're not actually trolling. I see people create trolls by flaming them. I see people play worse because they got attacked all game. Most people don't troll/intentionally feed in a vacuum, they do it in response to an external stimuli.

Telephone Booth7/12/2019, 10:28:39 PM7 votes

The problem with letting people flame trolls, is that we now have to correctly identify the troll is actually trolling and we're back at the reason trolls dont always get banned. I dont trust players to only flame when theyre getting legitimately trolled. Most of the time, I see people get outplayed, choosing sub optimal builds, and then someone on the team blaming them for a losing match and accusing them of being trolls.

So if Riot had the resources to always correctly identify trolls, they would get banned, and flaming them would be unnecessary. Ever heard of dont feed the trolls? They typically WANT to hear your salty remarks.

So since players AND Riot cant accurately identify trolls 100% of the time, the rules need to be a blanket that covers everyone at all times. They cant change the rules to: Once you feel youre being trolled, it is okay to flame. Lol that would just be a mess and you know it. More people would get banned because they would feel theyre allowed to flame. But then Riot would find the player is just bad, and punish the flamer.

The issue lies in identifying intent.

As for your analogy, it doesnt matter. the rules exist in a small box. They apply to the game ONLY. They are not a life lesson in morality. Theyre made only to deter people from derailing games and focusing on things other than specifically trying to win.

Cind3rkick7/12/2019, 10:17:40 PM5 votes

The way you say it, you make it seem like identifying an inter is as simple as someone taking away the glue.

You analogy is completely inaccurate. The league equivalent of someone taking away the glue and scissors would be someone afking, and those people do get punished, with leaverbuster and bans. The kid blatantly destroying the project would be the inters, which also get banned.

Now lets make this project more indepth. Since league is a teambased fighting game. Lets say its a project about some historical war. Now Jimmy is told to go and do some research about X. Tye next day, everyone contributes their different discoveries. When it comes to Jimmy, he has nothing. This equivelates in game to... lets say Dying/Letting a teammate die. Now lets see what could be the reason for this

**1) Jimmy is a lazy ass and put no effort or time into finding anything out. Aka he just stood there flashing master 7 as the enemt got a free kill.

2)Jimmy tried to find something but either couldnt find anything or what he found made no sense to him and he wasnt confident enough to hand it in**

Now tell me. Sitting around, with everyone but Jimmy contributing at that point, or the team going 1/0 with jimmy 0/3, what would you assume? Is he trolling or simply not good enough. So now we have all the situations.

Jimmy is blatantly trolling and gets punished

Jimmy isnt supporting but that might not be his fault.

Now the question is, what do the other students do.

They have 3 options the way I see it either

**A)Flame Jimmy, verbally telling him to die and they hope his family gets a disease.

B) Accept he cant help and find a way to work around it

C) Try to help Jimmy be productive**

If they do A, they will be banned, an eye for an eye right?

"If he trolls I should be able to flame him"

Well if he gets banned then so should you.

If they do B, they will still be able to complete the project, though it will be harder and require alot more from the others (since they would need the same amount kf work from one less person)

They wouldn't be punished for it since they did nothing wrong.

While C isnt possible for jimmy inting or afking, as you said, there is another project tomorrow and, unlike in your imaginary school, Jimmy wont be returning, since he was punished. If he wasnt good enough, then Jimmy would improve and then, in the next project, could be a valuable member to it.

In your situation, the only way the other students get punished, is if they also break the rules and flame. If you say "But as you said Jimmy might be the lazy kid who didnt try" I present option B.

There is no way to know if Jimmy was lazy or simply not clever enough. Flaming him for that will nkt only get you punished, but also make Jimmy nkt want to play, since he is trying his hardest and people just complain.

Icy Hot Shoto7/12/2019, 10:33:08 PM3 votes

Usually when people are feeding/trolling to the point it's blatantly obvious, they get caught quickly. I can't explain why others that are don't get caught other than assuming people aren't reporting correctly or reporting the person at all.

But when it's not obvious? Yeah, it's going to take awhile because a Rioter actually has to sit down and watch the game(s) to decide if the person really was inting/trolling. I'd like to note that it's actually been stated by a Rioter, I think it was Tantram, that they're trying to make a way for the system to catch inting/trolling. However it's nearly impossible due to people reporting players who aren't inting/trolling, or reporting them incorrectly. If players who aren't feeding are being reported, then a system can't be trusted to not grab them by accident all because someone got upset someone had a bad game.

You can speak all you want in chat. You even swear in chat! Riot doesn't give a fuck. It's when you're negatively impacting the game that it becomes a problem. Asking someone to stop once wont get you punished, hell it probably wont even be counted if it's just once. But when all you're doing is repeating the same thing, it becomes a problem. You're bringing attention to the feeder and away from the game. You're negatively impacting the game by constantly calling out someone who's feeding.

If they're having a bad game, suggest how to fix it politely/neutrally. "Hey, getting some armor/mr may be good." Is fine. "Get some amor/mr you fucking idiot(s)." Is not. And if they don't want to take your advice, then don't give them anymore. And don't put them down, either. If they're having a bad game then calling them out on it will only make them play worse.

Until people can fix their attitudes, a lot of the "feeding/trolling" can't be fixed because a lot of it isn't even feeding or trolling, it's people having a bad game and someone being so offended they have to be a jerk about it rather than trying to help in a calm and actually helpful manner.

Eybdoog7/12/2019, 10:14:58 PM2 votes

Though this is certainly an exaggeration it’s a great depiction of one of the the problems that will slowly kill this game out of existence

hrooza dota 7/13/2019, 4:19:54 AM1 votes

the analogy is nowhere near our report system, normally players lash out on the person who do the worst in game and sometimes they break the line in that lash out, imagine somebody with disabilities in the project who failed in his part of the project and the project fall apart should the teacher allow the other childs to flame and harm the disabled kid because of that even tho he tried?

btw *timmy and other real trolls want a reaction, dont give them that, you can always use the chat and try to change the guy mind with simple words, if he dont listen then he wont listen to your flames [this is not directed at you,this is directed at everyone]