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Is Riot's new banning algorithm not a little bit unjust?

Tr1ckster3··3 votes·1,674 views

In the past you'd only get perma'd if you were genuinely super toxic, as in telling people to kill themselves, wishing cancer, threatening them etc. and now you can get perma'd for not having a 100% positive attitude. The 4 strike system means you get perma'd on the fourth offense, no matter how mild it is. I got first hand experience of this when my own account got a 2 week ban a few months ago. I don't flame people, but I'll often complain and say things such as "Heca, I'm 3/0 so why does the enemy mid get blue twice and I get nothing?" or "Cait stop inting, rest of the team is winning."

I just stopped talking all together and still have my account, but I have a friend who I commonly duo with that got his account perma'd last night. He's not a toxic player, as in he doesn't directly flame people and tell them "mean" things but he is whiny and often complains to the jungler and what not, ie: "X you've afk jungled all game while the enemy jungler has been bot 10 times, just come for free triple."

But this post is not about him and getting him unbanned because I know it won't happen, instead I want to bring up the discussion: When did we go from only handing out perma bans to genuinely toxic people, to people that like to type a lot and are passionate about the game? If you say even 1 thing that's not positive, even if it's not flaming, like asking why your bot lane won't roam, it's EVENTUALLY grounds for a perma.

In other multiplayer games flame is never acceptable, but you don't have to sugarcoat things either. If someone stands in fire in a WoW raid you straight up tell them "Don't stand in the fire, you wiped the raid." and nobody has an issue. In LoL if you say "Why did you start baron when we pinged you back? Now they get it." and it's ground for punishment.

If you play a lot of games, 5+ a day and like to instruct/shotcall and question your team a lot it feels practically impossible not to get punished. Only way seems to be not to talk at all. Doesn't this seem a bit unjust? Wouldn't it be better if we went back to only handing out bans to actually toxic individuals that say you have autism and hope you drink bleach? Being critical of yourself and your team in a competitive setting and being passionate about the game and getting punished for it seems a bit eh.

29 Comments

ModPrandine4 votes

I believe that part of the reason we have a 4 strike system now is to 1: encourage people to reform faster and 2) remove the ones that don't or won't.

It's like real life in that sense where first you get a warning or two (10 & 25game cr) before finally having the privilege to it taken away (2week & permaban). On the same token though by showing good behavior, responsibility and maturity you can get access to it back and receive a less severe punishment if you mess up again after showing good behavior for a long period of time (going down the punishment list) and being rewarded for your efforts (mystery skins & icons, access to crafting & ranked rewards).

When we look at it that way then no I don't believe that the current punishment system is unjust. It's not perfect no of course, but it gets the job done better than its predecessors could (ie placing the responsibility (arguably more than ever before) to change on the player themselves).

Tr1ckster31 votes

Yes, but I'm not debating the 4 strike system, I'm debating the 4 strike system's harshness. If you are genuinely toxic and flame people sure you deserve to get punished, as you were in the past, but now you also get punished for "negative attitude" which includes, for example, saying "Why would you do baron with 0 surrounding vision? Terrible call." or telling your jungler "Why 1v1 him when I ping you back? I told you that you can't beat him." Enough of those and you also get punished.

League is honestly the only game I play where you can get perma'd for complaining or being "whiny". In other games you'd literally have to threaten them or call them very offensive terms to get punished.

ModPrandine1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but I'm not debating the 4 strike system, I'm debating the 4 strike system's harshness. If you are genuinely toxic and flame people sure you deserve to get punished, as you were in the past, but now you also get punished for "negative attitude" which includes, for example, saying "Why would you do baron with 0 surrounding vision? Terrible call." or telling your jungler "Why 1v1 him when I ping you back? I told you that you can't beat him." Enough of those and you also get punished.

From my experience those things by themselves will not get people punished. It's the constant arguing, whining and complaining instead of focusing on the game and/or more constructive chat that gets people punished for chat related offenses.

Again I feel that it's not harsh. It starts off light by saying "hey, you messed up, but thats okay. Here's a warning to remind you not to do that anymore". Come permaban they're saying "alright, you had your chances and you blew em. You're no longer allowed to use this".

Tr1ckster31 votes

Exactly, and why should arguing and whining be punished? I used to do it, but ever since my 2 week ban I don't talk at all and just go afk when my team annoys me since that isn't punishable other than the 20 minute afk-timer between games. Punishments should be reserved for actual inflammatory behavior and people that are actually toxic and insult others. League is honestly the only game that does this.

About your second point, once again, that's fine but what I'm trying to get at is that you shouldn't be punished for having a "negative attitude". It's not misbehaving, it's just not being falsely positive and it's not exactly hurting anyone other than yourself.

Daklore5 votes

Actually, constant afking can get you permabanned too. It's the same thing as being toxic and negative. As a wise rabbit once told a baby deer, "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

AFKing is as good as saying something, because you're saying, "screw this game, you're on your own, I'm out." Which is why it can and will eventually result in punishment the same as being toxic, negative, and/or just being a bad sport.

Think of it this way: If you're constantly arguing with officials, being a rude and disruptive influence, or fighting constantly, you're going to get kicked out of just about any sporting venue. You do that post-game constantly enough, and the team is likely to let you go no matter how good you are. The same applies to league.

Tr1ckster31 votes

I've probably afk'd in 50+ games in the past few months and have had the 20 minute leaver buster queue on pretty much permanently and still fine. Never has anyone been perm'd for only afking either. Don't spread lies, thanks. :)

Daklore1 votes

Lemme know how that works out for you in a couple months :3

EvilDustMan2 votes

{quoted}

I've probably afk'd in 50+ games in the past few months and have had the 20 minute leaver buster queue on pretty much permanently and still fine. Never has anyone been perm'd for only afking either. Don't spread lies, thanks. :)

No, but it probably didn't help your case.

AeroWaffle2 votes

Because people with a constant "negative attitude" can be just as destructive to the community over a long period of time.

It's not misbehaving, it's just not being falsely positive and it's not exactly hurting anyone other than yourself.

What you provided as examples in the OP was not self-criticism, it was clearly directed at someone else.

"Heca, I'm 3/0 so why does the enemy mid get blue twice and I get nothing?" or "Cait stop inting, rest of the team is winning."

S0kaX2 votes

Hahahaha, no. If your post would be true I would be perma banned.

Tr1ckster31 votes

You have about 30 total games played in the past 2 weeks and 12 ranked games total, I have 230 ranked game since the start of the new year and 550 since the start of the new season. I'm not sure how "toxic" you're being, but your margins are very small. If you played 100+ ranked games a week and even slip once every 10 games, and by slipping I don't mean flaming, I mean saying something that's not 100% positive, you'll get punished soon enough.

S0kaX1 votes

You're either a kid or a troll, either way your post is just wrong. If my friend that plays at least 5 games a day and spams "report x" is not banned then it means you did say some really bad things to get banned

Tr1ckster31 votes

I'm neither, but thanks for the insult. Here's a screenshot of one of the games I got punished for a few months ago: http://imgur.com/a/zd9u6

Go ahead and tell me what's "really bad" about it? The punishment system just seems to pick up on words like "banned", "flame" "no gank" etc and punish you for it. And if you play 10+ games a day it's eventually going to find some unless you don't talk at all.

S0kaX2 votes

It's one of the games, it is not bad (although you can hide a part) but there are other games that banned you.

Tr1ckster31 votes

You say it's not bad but the system considered it bad enough to be a part of the punishment, and the other games weren't by any means worse. It's the fact that that is now considered equally as punishable as wishing people cancer and telling people to drink bleach that confuses me, hence me questioning the banning algorithm. :)

S0kaX2 votes

Show me the games then we can talk about fairness.

Tr1ckster31 votes

It's the only screenshot I took since it was the most absurd. Even without the others it was still included in the 3 games that were provided, which means it was deemed as "inflammatory", which is what I'm trying to focus on.

S0kaX1 votes

It might be an error for that game appearing, but the rest of the games may be enough anyway without that game you showed anyway.

Tr1ckster31 votes

Pretty sure it wasn't an error since, as I said, the other games weren't really worse. Even if it was an error it shows how easily this system can give out wrong judgments.

S0kaX1 votes

1 error good games in 5 doesn't man it's a wrong judgement

Bettnachleger1 votes

What about the pre / after game chat?

Anomander1 votes

That game I am pretty sure Shyvana reported you for harassing her about ganks constantly and blaming her for your death because she was clearing jungle.

However that is not enough to get a punishment. It takes either extreme toxic behavior or a consistent behavior.

Without showing us the other two games you are concealing the truth of your punishment.

Tr1ckster31 votes

I was not harassing anyone, my team was flaming me for not doing well mid and I said "I asked for gank, can't do much else." I was just defending myself by trying to explain that I had done everything I could 1v1.

Unless you mean the "Can I get some help mid?" which was me just asking nicely after my first death.

Astôlfo2 votes

Stop complaining.

Tr1ckster31 votes

If something seems unfair you bring attention to it. :)

Horse Grenades1 votes

Copy and paste the chat logs you got from the email

Tr1ckster31 votes

Didn't get an email, just had 3 game logs pop up in client.

Magical Player1 votes

If you believe you are right, call in riot tantrum or whoever does the super clarifying aspect nowadays Also submit a support ticket asking for clearer reasoning on your punishment

Copy paste logs, rather than screenshotting also, report thread as incorrect board, it may garner the attention faster of admins :D to help resolve the dilemma

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