Instigators vs. Reactors

TargetTech·Dec 2, 2017·1 votes·593 views

I've seen a ton of flaming and toxicity lately and it seems to be getting worse during the pre-season. It seems like even when people mute other players they get reported for grieving and giving up or not working with the team. On the other hand when they don't mute people they finally tilt and respond and get reported for being toxic. Should the people who instigate the reaction be punished or should the person who reacts? Should it be both? Should Riot actually take reports seriously and stop letting a computer with a horribly made algorithm decide punishments?

16 Comments

ModUlanopoDec 2, 20176 votes

Should Riot actually take reports seriously and stop letting a computer with a horribly made algorithm decide punishments?

That's an awfully loaded question and starts with some sketchy assumptions, though I can see how someone who had been a "reactor" might have a different perspective.

The reason Riot looks just as closely at "reactors" is because both "reactors" and "instigators" make life miserable for everyone else.

Has No TeamDec 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's an awfully loaded question and starts with some sketchy assumptions, though I can see how someone who had been a "reactor" might have a different perspective.

The reason Riot looks just as closely at "reactors" is because both "reactors" and "instigators" make life miserable for everyone else.

Yeah but so does the IFS which doesn't catch things the tribunal did.

ModUlanopoDec 2, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Contra XIII,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EXEJnafW,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-12-02T05:34:00.154+0000)

Yeah but so does the IFS which doesn't catch things the tribunal did.

The IFS makes people's lives miserable? I'm afraid you're going to have to explain that to me.

MindspeakerDec 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The IFS makes people's lives miserable? I'm afraid you're going to have to explain that to me.

^^^ agreed^^^ ... also saying "part of my fun is being about to be a jerk " is not an acceptable answer

Has No TeamDec 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The IFS makes people's lives miserable? I'm afraid you're going to have to explain that to me.

Well as far as league is concerned it does. It allows so many types of troll to go undetected for so long where as the manual peer review was something where people could catch the context of things. People on the team could type in what the person was doing to troll and over three games you could have three whole teams in the chat confirming the actions of a player. You could as a community pardon or punish different types of behavior and decide if 30 deaths was a "bad game" or feeding.

It just felt like in that system at least that when you had some bad games with some terrible trolls that you could go do some tribunal cases and whether they made you laugh or immediately hit "punish" that you had some direct contribution to impacting the community. It gave the player a more transparent look in to the system's workings and what is being done to clean up the community. In the current system all you sometimes get is a small pop up stating a recently reported player was punished and that is not even promised to show for you in or out of a certain time frame. It feels like the trolls are allowed to run more rampant owing to a lack of the previous transparency we had.

Basically this system feels like it's making league miserable because it doesn't show anyone the workings or results. The system we had before at least gave the player a feel for how things were being handled and it was even nice that you had a justice accuracy rating that showed you were in line with how the community viewed behaviors . So yeah having taken part of the tribunal i can say with certainty that the quality of being in the community feels much worse with this current iteration of player behavior modification.

Edit: Also you don't have to point out so called improvements in rule enforcement and all that. I'm talking about transparency which is different. Transparency that let the player know the system is working which let them see and take an active role in it's process. Right now being part of the community feels awful without being able to get those looks in to behavior evaluation.

TargetTechDec 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's an awfully loaded question and starts with some sketchy assumptions, though I can see how someone who had been a "reactor" might have a different perspective.

The reason Riot looks just as closely at "reactors" is because both "reactors" and "instigators" make life miserable for everyone else.

The reason for this thread was to see what everyone thought. Without "Instigators" there would be no "Reactors" to make the game miserable for everyone.

zPOOPzDec 2, 20172 votes

when people mute other players they get reported for grieving and giving up or not working with the team

Report all they want. Nothing will happen to people who mute other players. "Refusing to communicate" doesn't exist

Magical PlayerDec 2, 20171 votes

Unless you're reported 10's of thousands of times and the IFS doesn't understand why it gets a manual review aka support singed/nunu

zPOOPzDec 2, 20171 votes

and the manual review will pan out nothing...

TargetTechDec 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Report all they want. Nothing will happen to people who mute other players. "Refusing to communicate" doesn't exist

They still get reported for giving up. I got reported for not working with my team and "giving up" and support suspended my old account for it

zPOOPzDec 2, 20171 votes

Unless you actually DID gave up in that game, I really doubt that's the reason you got suspended for. As long as you are playing and make an effort to try to win, you cannot be punished for not talking in chat...

MindspeakerDec 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Unless you actually DID gave up in that game, I really doubt that's the reason you got suspended for. As long as you are playing and make an effort to try to win, you cannot be punished for not talking in chat...

I agree.... I have been playing ranked for years I have rarely said anything for more often than not play non meta stuff, and have never once have I even got a warning so I also really don't believe what you said happened for the reason you stated.

when people mute other players they get reported for grieving and giving up or not working with the team

It does not matter if 1000000000000 players report you falsely nothing will happen.

Riot Tantram (NA) - 2 years ago

A report flags a game for review. They do not establish guilt. The game is then reviewed for harassment, feeding, etc. This is why 'troll reporting' or 'gang reporting' do not work. False or inaccurate reports are thrown out.

You cannot ever be punished for saying nothing . unless of course it's for something gameplay related like feeding, afking or cheating. But, you can never be punished for offensive language, hate speech or verbal abuse if you said nothing.

See that highlight line ....sort of kills your statement right there.

MindspeakerDec 2, 20172 votes

op Both instigator and reactor should be equally punished,

If someone intentionally feeds/ afk etc and you flame them for it

you deserve to be punishing just as much as they do.

If someone calls you every name in the book and makes up some new ones -- and you respond

you deserve to be punished just as much as they do.

If someone simply isn't answering your pings , chat or playing the way you think they should and you "call them out"

You deserve to be punished

It does not matter "why" you did it ...the fact is you did . That's the only think that matters in the above cases.

No matter what game mode your in certain things just are not allowed reacting to anything you dont like in game is one of the things not allowed,

In other words you ( according to Riots behavioral policy) have no right to

be verbally abusive/ verbally offesive
react or "defend yourself" against others being verbally abusive
chastise those legitimately breaking the rules
Chastise those who you don't agree with
complain about anything
Rant about any personal grievance in the game
giving any type of negative commentary regarding whats happening in the game

Doing any of the above can lead to various punishments including permaban's

So here is the lessons you should take from this on the mature and civilized way to handle things which will also ensure you are following Riots behavioral guidelines

So yes if someone is saying the most vile insults to you ever spoken,

the proper action according to Riot is mute and report without any response including " report x or i'm muting you"

If any amount of people are breaking every game play rule in the book

The proper action according to Riot is ignore them don't respond with anything -- even "report x"

yes you might lose a match and some lP if in ranked its still just a video game and not a serious life or death situation if you do.

and really---

Which is the best coarse of action if you don't want to be punished given Riots current policy?

1 Not reacting or responding in any way shape or form and losing a match and some Lp ...which really has no "real value" and can eventually be replaced

2 Reacting, "defending yourself", "sarcastic " responses, chastising rule breakers or simply just complaining about think you don't like in game and risking losing your entire account that does have monetary value?

The safest option is in other words if you cant say anything positive ..without being sarcastic about it .. don't say anything at all.

If you pick option 2 its inevitable that you will eventually end up perma banned

This Is Your DadDec 2, 20171 votes

Honestly, in a perfect world the instigator would receive the punishment. However, one thing I've learned about humanity is that it is twisted. It's not a matter of who did what, but rather, how you appear to others. That's why many innocent people have been wrongly convicted of crimes, why black people were slaves and why we try to make enemies out of stereotypes instead of people. You have to play the game. Smile, accept the unacceptable, beat them at the game. And when you do, you can enjoy their suffering. Politics. That's all it is. What will appear to be lawful. That's why so many criminals that infiltrate the corporate ladder replace their illegal and immoral actions with laws that justify those actions. That's why technically a man can sue an elderly lady for her entire property over a minor clerical error of 13 cents instead of 31 cents and get everything she owns handed to him legally. When people start thinking in absolutes, criminals can thrive. You basically have to adapt to being a walking target at all times. Don't trust anyone. Most people are sick and twisted because our society of capitalism demands it. In order to succeed you must trample others. Not my ideal world, but it's one I've adapted to. I can have a good heart, but I can't do anyone any favors.

FalkentyneDec 2, 20171 votes

I don't agree with many things you say, Anti-Teemo, how you always defend Riot's broken and seriously flawed system, but I can't do anything but agree with this post you made, fully.

This Is Your DadDec 2, 20171 votes

The times I do defend it are especially prevalent when a guy is hurling profanity and making an enemy out of everyone before he even tries to make his case. You don't call someone a slur and then somehow expect them to help you. It's just not logical. I haven't been punished by the system in quite some time, which is why I believe it does work. Maybe not good against feeders, but there have been times that I've tried to play and just had a really bad game, only to be accused of feeding on purpose. So I try to keep my opinions in line with the purpose of coexistence. In order to not be swallowed by the herd, we must run with the herd, and if we seek to change our path, we must first guide the herd or risk being trampled under the weight of the preordained way of thinking. I'm a generally nice person, but there are times when I am a jerk. To claim to be a saint would be ridiculous, but controlling my behavior has led to a greater sense of pride in myself. People who feed want to get under your skin. People who rage want you to rage back. To deny them is to bore them. Bored people will leave you alone.