Boards›Player Behavior

Let's fathom a better player buster system

FuntaC·1/31/2016, 6:48:43 PM·1 votes·750 views

First the rules,

  1. It should be accurate.
  2. It should meet general expectations.
  3. It should enhance the enjoyment of the game for all valued players.

Aren't we getting to the point where we can majority agree that negative account actions based upon chat logs is unreliable? It lacks context. It lack full comprehension of the situation or past predicaments. It lacks proper evaluation of player and language. It lacks so many more things that are needed to adequately asses a claim of harm.

The best and only trustworthy solution is to leave it up to players to mute. One argument is that damage was already done. That argument ignores the responsibilities of people in society: to not be so emotionally fragile, honestly, and to exert one's personal power to manage social exposure. For this reason, players should have more control over chat. That would be enough of a fix.

That leaves us with the real problem of social gaming - those that grief. We'll just use griefing as the catchall of ineffective play. There only needs to be one report option, and that is to tag a player for griefing. Why? Because a good player buster system already has the data needed to identify a griefer without a player report. Player reports would simply remove false positives; a game where a team of friends are harassing each other for fun, for example. This is the depth of what we will fathom in the new system.

HOW THE SYSTEM WILL KNOW A GRIEFER

This is what people replying to this thread can add - ways the system might recognize a griefer automatically. What follows are my ideas. I would like to read yours as well.

-- standing in spawn for X time -- standing still and using no abilities while being attacked -- a gold ranked adc Caitlyn not using an ult or a bush trap for the first 10m -- wandering without engaging the enemy for X time -- engaging the enemy repeatedly without minimally effective use of skills -- engaging a turret without minimally effective use of skill -- engaging a turret and failing X attempts per X time -- consistently waiting to engage in a team fight to only land a last hit

Can you see how easily this stuff could be tracked using data streamed or logged? We could literally build an algorithm right here in this thread. Everyone add your own indicator of player griefing.

7 Comments

Lonely Flame1/31/2016, 8:14:54 PM3 votes

{quoted}

First the rules,

  1. It should be accurate.

The current system is extremely accurate.

  1. It should meet general expectations.

It is. Just because trolls and verbal abuse still exist doesn't mean an effort isn't being made to get rid of it.

  1. It should enhance the enjoyment of the game for all valued players.

It does. It removes players who are regularly destroying the fun of other players.

Aren't we getting to the point where we can majority agree that negative account actions based upon chat logs is unreliable? It lacks context. It lack full comprehension of the situation or past predicaments. It lacks proper evaluation of player and language. It lacks so many more things that are needed to adequately asses a claim of harm.

You're right. The player reporting them does. I player won't get reported for swearing if they say "I fucking suck" after they miss a kill or fail at something. A player will get reported if someone else fails and they say "you fucking suck". One is frustration and venting their own personal failure. The second is also frustration, but abuse of another player.

That said, someone being a troll doesn't automatically allow you to disobay the rules. Some guy feeding? Doesn't give you the right to abuse them. Sure it's frustrating to deal with, but you give them exactly what they want, and they don't care how angry you get.

The best and only trustworthy solution is to leave it up to players to mute. One argument is that damage was already done. That argument ignores the responsibilities of people in society: to not be so emotionally fragile, honestly, and to exert one's personal power to manage social exposure. For this reason, players should have more control over chat. That would be enough of a fix.

No. Mute is a band-aid. Mute is so that you don't have to deal with the verbal abuse of a player until the end of your current game. In the real life concept, you walk away from someone who is spewing abuse. Sure, you can argue with them for a bit, but if you would rather not have to deal with this person, you can leave. You can't leave the situation in League. You can only make it a bit better until the end of game, where you can report the player and potentially get them banned. At the same time, would you say that a 'responsible person in society' would speak the way verbal abuses do to random strangers? If you see a guy at the store yelling at an employee and belitting them and telling them to kill themselves, would you want to interact with that person?

That leaves us with the real problem of social gaming - those that grief. We'll just use griefing as the catchall of ineffective play. There only needs to be one report option, and that is to tag a player for griefing. Why? Because a good player buster system already has the data needed to identify a griefer without a player report. Player reports would simply remove false positives; a game where a team of friends are harassing each other for fun, for example. This is the depth of what we will fathom in the new system.

That's what the current system is already doing. It is recording text. It is tracking K/D/A ratios. It. Tracks. Everything. And by having multiple options of reporting, Riot can respond differently. For example, a verbal abuse report will net you a chat ban, but an intentionally feeding report will most likely get you temp banned.

HOW THE SYSTEM WILL KNOW A GRIEFER

This is what people replying to this thread can add - ways the system might recognize a griefer automatically. What follows are my ideas. I would like to read yours as well.

-- standing in spawn for X time

Current system does this

-- standing still and using no abilities while being attacked

Current system does this

-- a gold ranked adc Caitlyn not using an ult or a bush trap for the first 10m

This isn't reportable

-- wandering without engaging the enemy for X time

This isn't reportable

-- engaging the enemy repeatedly without minimally effective use of skills

That is why 'intentionally feeding' reports already exist

-- engaging a turret without minimally effective use of skill

That is why 'intentionally feeding' reports already exist

-- engaging a turret and failing X attempts per X time

This isn't reportable. Context is needed

-- consistently waiting to engage in a team fight to only land a last hit

This isn't reportable. Context is needed

Can you see how easily this stuff could be tracked using data streamed or logged? We could literally build an algorithm right here in this thread. Everyone add your own indicator of player griefing.

...Do you have any idea what you're asking? You want to track the data of every single gameplay element in the game and to assess automatically. That's not 'easy' that's incredibly complex. That would take months, if not potential years to ensure everything functions properly. If a single thing were to screw up, everything screws up.

nerak231/31/2016, 7:10:17 PM2 votes

The best and only trustworthy solution is to leave it up to players to mute. One argument is that damage was already done. That argument ignores the responsibilities of people in society: to not be so emotionally fragile, honestly, and to exert one's personal power to manage social exposure. For this reason, players should have more control over chat. That would be enough of a fix.

Don't agree with you, I feel like people shouldn't be so emotionally fragile that they feel the need to be a jerk in the first place. Why do people try to turn it around? Positive players who are offended by being needlessly harassed are Not the problem it's those who can't help but say nasty things.

JRobin311/31/2016, 8:08:58 PM2 votes

"for all valued players" "We'll just use griefing as the catchall of ineffective play" "without minimally effective use of skills"

The problem is the view that additional punishments should be meted out to players who under perform in a game. The proper punishment for players that under perform is that they lose games! Sure players will complain about the players that they can't carry. But making it a reportable offense for being unskilled was removed for a reason: it doesn't lead to any meaningful social reform. You want players to feel worried that if they miss their skill shots, then they can be punished in ways besides MMR and LP loss? wtf man, wtf