Automated punishment system is a joke

CurlyBastard·Dec 3, 2019·2 votes·2,233 views

You've probably heard countless people complain about how they got banned over 'innocent' comments such as I HOPE YOU END UP EATING A PINEAPPLE PIZZA and worse. However, what happened to me is that I've seen myself being toxic as hell on my smurf (now level 25 or sth). I literally use that account to vent my frustrations. I expected it to get banned within weeks. I'm pretty sure if Tribunal was around that account would have been banned countless times by now. However, I always avoid the trigger words and people around me don't. This is crucial because:

The account is still doing well and I've got a lot of IFS informing me that people around me were punished for their toxic behavior (I always report tho). Meanwhile my account is intact and climbing in honor ranks even though I disgust myself with my behavior lol. The automated system looks like a really bad computer science project. It only detects keywords but sucks at recognizing them oftentimes (example: the k word where you replace 'S' with a '5').

Idk, looks like my toxic account will even make it to 30 so I'll have to stop venting there XD

13 Comments

Umbral RegentDec 3, 20195 votes

I think you're working off of two big misconceptions here;

That the IFS is an entirely automated, autonomous system that surveys and punishes without any input required;
That the IFS works solely off of "trigger words" and that simply by avoiding said trigger words, you can avoid punishment.

Neither of these two statements are true.

The IFS, while being an automated system, is not always autonomously active 100% of the time. Despite "automated system" being the nomenclature, it does require an initial input in order to function; that initial input, of course, being a report.

If you haven't been punished despite flaming a lot on that account (however frequently or infrequently you play on that account), it is probable that you simply aren't being reported for one reason or another. The IFS needs a report to trigger a review and subsequent punishment, as a report is really the only way that someone can indicate to the system "this player was bugging me and might have been breaking the rules".

So, barring all other possible details, that is the most likely reason (even if it is unlikely) that you're not getting punished on that alt account. No report = no review = no action.

As for the misconception about trigger words;

A lot of people have this idea that the IFS simply scans chat for specific trigger words/keywords that constitute misbehavior; "garbage", "feed", "idiot", "trash", "uninstall", etc., and, while it does have some such functionality, that's reserved for zero-tolerance chat - hate speech and encouragements of self-harm. Stuff where the actual content of misbehavior is in such a small breadth that a keyword search would actually feasibly function.

The reality of it is, the IFS is built to actually read people's chat logs and determine what they were saying. It's a machine-learning system, and a substantially complex one at that. You can read any number of posts here on Player Behavior and you'll see many an example of low-key toxicity that uses zero "trigger words" getting punished.

So, no; the IFS doesn't work exclusively off of trigger words, and avoiding "trigger words" isn't actually going to help you avoid punishment. Toxicity isn't confined to some set-specific words, and you can be punished for being toxic without using those words.

CurlyBastardDec 3, 20191 votes

So basically you said it's not automated system's fault but it's players who won't report you.

Nothing's gonna come out of that. If you're gonna assume things then we have nothing to talk about. The AI behind this system isn't an optional measure to deal with toxic players.

Instead of killing toxicity, this way of punishing lets players learn how to be toxic with no consequences. Take off your blindfold.

Trust me, I know how the bot is supposed to work and I know a thing or two about how AI itself works. I'll just tell you that toxicity isn't a logically-oriented decision that AI can make. Why? It's not a logical decision at all but rather a moral one - has this person crossed the line and ruined other players' experience.

Umbral RegentDec 3, 20192 votes

So basically you said it's not automated system's fault but it's players who won't report you.

Yes. As far as all of the details you've given go (and those details are sparse and vague, mind), that's the most logical conclusion.

You are toxic on your smurf account, but somehow haven't been punished. If you're toxic, then a review would have found you as such and you would have been punished by now; ergo, the review process isn't being started, meaning that players aren't reporting you.

Nothing's gonna come out of that. If you're gonna assume things then we have nothing to talk about.

I'm not assuming, though. Riot has stated that the IFS doesn't work off of trigger words...

This is not how the system works. It is not a keyword based system. It also isn't that black and white. It is a machine learning system that learns from the community what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. It doesn't just say, 'they said a word on a list, they get punished.'

And Riot Tantram has also shared a snippet of code from the IFS program that pretty easily proves that no reports = no review. It's not directly speaking to that fact, (the comment instead being a response to claims of mass-reports) but nevertheless still proves my point.

It's actually really simple.

if (reports > 0) { review(); }

A simple If statement checking the value of the reports variable for a number greater than 0 to call the review function; in other words, no report = no review, 1 report = review, 4 reports = review, 9 reports = review...Etc.

Trust me, I know how the bot is supposed to work and I know a thing or two about how AI itself works.

Do tell. I'd like to see how the bot is supposed to work, especially seeing as your understanding of it contradicts official Riot statements. And do make sure to provide evidence, because I'm not about to take your assumptions of the system at face value.

CurlyBastardDec 3, 20191 votes

[deleted]

Umbral RegentDec 3, 20192 votes

Ugh I see that you didn't spare a second to stop and actually read what I've written so let me get started:

People were calling me out and were spamming "report report report", idk I'd say they went on to report me afterwards. But okay, maybe a dog that barks doesn't bite.

Me saying that you assume things was regarding the previous paragraph - you ASSUMED that I wasn't reported and justified the bot by that sole assumption.

And...I'm supposed to know that that was your point without you saying it...How?

All you said was:

So basically you said it's not automated system's fault but it's players who won't report you.

Nothing's gonna come out of that. If you're gonna assume things then we have nothing to talk about. The AI behind this system isn't an optional measure to deal with toxic players.

And nowhere in your post or your comments before now was there any mention of players "calling you out" or saying that they were going to report you. And I did point out that your post lacked much in the way of real, workable details;

Yes. As far as all of the details you've given go (and those details are sparse and vague, mind), that's the most logical conclusion.

So, yeah. Of course I'm going to make an assumption based off of all the known information. If my assumption is wrong, you are at fault for not giving complete information. It's not my fault you forgot to mention that.

When I said I know how bot's supposed to work I was relating to the fact that I'm aware that bot doesn't have a simple search-for-a-trigger-word-and-issue-a-punishment algorithm. I said that I know it's more than that.

If you know that it's not a trigger-word based system, why say anything of the sort in your OP? And if you're going to clarify that you understand as much, why not simply say "okay, I know it's not a trigger-word system"? When you just say "trust me, I know how it's supposed to work", that doesn't tell me that we're actually on the same page.

All that tells me is that you think you know the system where I don't. And it doesn't help that it's coupled with the vague "you're just assuming" part above.

There's a level of miscommunication going on here that, frankly, is making it impossible to have a real discussion. You're leaving out information, making contradictory statements, and then blaming me for not understanding your vague statements.

To that end, I'm just gonna bow out. Next time, if you want to discuss something, please put all of the information forward, and make sure you're clearly stating your points.

Ashe mage ADDec 3, 20193 votes

I used to avoid trigger words as well but that's outdated. Who the fk needs chat anymore? Like seriously, I pity some of you toxic fks, you wanna vent sometimes and no one even got chat turned on xD That's so evil. It's perfect.

CurlyBastardDec 3, 20192 votes

Oh trust me, they've had their chats on and that's why IFS kicked in so many times. Now that's pure evil..

Ashe mage ADDec 3, 20191 votes

I said sometimes. Also I'm playing consistently around the top 20%-15% of the player base on several accounts which is like high gold-low plat ranges. At these elos it made no difference if I had chat on half the time cuz the others wouldn't. You're playing at around the top 6% range, do they really have chat on as much on your main as well?

CurlyBastardDec 3, 20191 votes

Well Idk, people tend to tilt easily in high plat - low dia elo.. I haven't played rankeds for like 3 months, college happened and I couldn't finish my climb to diamond, rip. Either way I used to talk a lot in chat before and it was mostly calls and stuff. However if you slip in chat its unforgivable and I have to admit I had my slips because people sometimes just don't wanna listen.

That's why I mostly rely on pings as you cannot get punished for ping raining lol..

After I have learned that you can disable chat I turn it off whenever I see that I'm losing my cool and then I resort to pings only. It has improved my game focus exponentially not gon' lie..

Ashe mage ADDec 3, 20191 votes

3 months ago? Idk, that's about when I 1st realized they added the ability to disable ally chat lol. I've no idea when it actually became a thing. I'd say even more people started using it since then if I were to guess.