Question: Why don't extremely toxic players just get perma-chat restricted instead of permabanned?

CyberBalt·2/12/2017, 3:32:49 AM·3 votes·1,230 views

Just a random thought I had. It seems odd that being a jerk in chat has the same final consequence as intentional feeding (which is much worse) or something similar. I think the main argument against this is that the toxic players would resort to being negative in-game (by feeding). But if they do that, why not then just ban them the normal way?

I'm sure that I'm not the first to ask this, so I'd like to know the reasoning.

18 Comments

Deep Terror Nami2/12/2017, 3:42:39 AM7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=q7NYtdkw,comment-id=0003000100010000000100020001,timestamp=2016-03-09T01:58:12.412+0000)

When we permanently ban players we want them to spend their time elsewhere. Permanent bans are reserved for players who were either extremely toxic (hate speech etc.) or refused to improve after numerous warnings.

Chat restrictions are our way of helping players realize their behavior is not acceptable, and shielding their behaviors from other players while allowing them a chance to improve.

This is why we provide chat logs and information about why we punished them. We aren't looking for ways to keep extremely toxic players in the community, which is why we do not issue permanent chat restrictions.

If a player wants to hide their chat on screen and communicate with pings, they are of course welcome to do it. That is them recognizing they have an issue and attempting to fix it.

Zielmann2/12/2017, 3:56:45 AM4 votes

In that past, chat toxicity was actually handled by a system of ever-increasing amounts of chat-restricted games. It could start off as low as just a few games, but as people continued to cause problems, they would earn more and more restrictions to where you could consider them effectively permanently chat restricted (some players worked up to a few hundred games of restrictions). Here's the announcement post from when they stopped that and moved to the system we have today: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Boqd81O0-upcoming-upgrades-to-chat-restrictions

One of the main points that transfers over is where players who were restricted still were toxic with their few lines they were allowed to use during games. For those people, it really didn't gain the other people stuck in game with the toxic person any real help at all. From there, you could argue on why not just revoke their chat privileges entirely, which is a valid jump. In the person is still causing problems when restricted, get rid of even the limited chat use they do have. But this is where I feel the argument you stated comes in. If players are so bent on ruining the game for others, they're going to find a way. I strongly believe this. Rather than causing problems in chat, they'll be the ones who start to spam ping on top of you when you make a mistake. They'll follow you in the jungle and steal your farm (or if they're the jungler, go take all your lane farm/exp). Maybe they avoid the team and AFK farm. They might also up and decide to intentionally feed.

And to your point, yes, you could still catch these people when they do these things. The question is what you gain or lose in doing so. For the most part, you're just letting a known problem player continue to ruin games while you wait for their other behaviors to get them banned. Unfortunately, in-game actions like these are often more difficult to detect, which generally means they're slower to detect. So it doesn't really make sense to keep them around for that time.

As the system is now, a very small portion of people even get to a permanent ban. They just get a lot of publicity here on the boards as a vocal minority when they come in here claiming their permanent bans were unfair or trying to defend their actions. Truth is, most people learn their lesson from the very first time they get a chat restriction, and never get a punishment beyond that. And many players who don't get it after the first punishment, will reform after the second one. After you've filtered through 3 tiers of punishments already, very very few players who continue to cause problems will ever reform.

But beyond all that is one of Riot's core philosophies around the permanent bans. When they issue one, they're basically telling the person to go somewhere else. They don't want them here in the community anymore. While there's not really a way to enforce that an individual never play the game again (they can make all the new accounts they want), Riot truly doesn't want them here if they're going to keep acting the way they were.

Lauchmelder2/12/2017, 3:38:06 AM2 votes

Because perma chatrestricted players found ways to grief regardless. They started inting, and trolling

themachamp2/13/2017, 12:16:03 PM1 votes

Perma-banning players makes riot more money...plain and simple.

DrCyanide2/12/2017, 3:49:08 AM1 votes

If they're actually perma-muted I think there'd be more problems. You'd get situations where people would join the lobby and say "Yo! <permamuted player>! I'm going to swap roles with you, OK?" (or something similar) to take advantage of them not being able to talk back.

MissingKayo2/12/2017, 3:45:52 AM1 votes

They don't deserve to play.

woodvsmurph2/12/2017, 9:31:49 AM1 votes

because they would and do find other ways to make life hell for their teammates. like

run it down mid int in lane steal someone else's champ in champ select because they pick before them steal someone else's role (2 top, 2 jungle, 2 mid, ...) stalk others around and steal their cs last second stalk others around and screw up their last-hitting without even getting the cs themselves these are just some of the ways people can be a complete donkey to others even if muted