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I understand the ban but i have a couple of questions?

o GangPlank o·3/29/2018, 7:20:34 AM·3 votes·901 views

now first things first , lets get it out of the way , i was banned ... wow no way , toxic you deserved it , oh hell yeah i deserved it , i was being an ass

but id like a few of my questions to be answered and then i can rest peacefully

#1 was it just this game/match?

was i overly toxic in this game , or was it multiple games , id assume multiple games but why was this the breaking point ... was it the certain no-no word i used , and does the context in which its used at all come into play , was it the percentage of my team reporting me , what exactly lead to this , because i often duo , and my partner , while not toxic , has his own thoughts and opinions , which he tends to support giving me his view on the current events

#2 is toxic and bossy the same thing?

well is it? the question is pretty straight forward , if your doing bad , i dont have to be toxic towards you , but i certainly wont be nice , so avoiding any overly harsh language or profanity , could i still say the same things , but "nicer" , i say some rough things in the game , either to get a laugh or to get a point across , which of course usually gets me nowhere and frustrates my team mate(s) , but what if im right , what happens then ... what happens when all the harsh but true leadership falls on deaf ears , and it only aggravates my team

#3 how do dou's come into play?

i duo , you duo , he , she , we dou ... now if im reporting someone , my dou will often report them as well , of course for good reason , but is a dou reporting someone worth the same amount of reportage , does mmr come into play , skill level , time played , money spent ... that will come into play in the next question

#4 but what if they deserve it?

now no one deserves to be called names or have derogatory comments made towards them , but your build ... DAAAAWWWG THAT BUILD STANK , this goes back to the bossiness aspect as well , where do you draw the line , if im not directly putting you down , but if your build is directly influencing our teams ability to do ... things , am i allowed to say something? probably not what i said , but yeah , something polite and nice , but when that player is rude towards you , and then you look at the little items they have , and they fill you with rage from the depths of hades ... what then? what if theyre toxic , or feeding , or just playing below the skill level of the rest of your team , what if this player is costing you the game , because of the mistakes they consistently make throughout the game ... at that point , they are ruining my fun , and being nice to them is the least of my concern , understandable id hope

#5 toxicity feeds on toxicity

what happens when they start it , context sort of comes into play here , if a player is being rude towards me or my lovely lux support dou , whom im not laning with , because jungle main of course , but yknow some people have a hard time controlling their anger , and if you are going to allow the feeders , the trolls , the toxic players who never seem to get banned , to play the game , let alone the COMPETITIVE RANKED mode , its only fair if you allow people with anger management issues to play too ... but they can only go so far , and when someone starts flaming them or saying rude things , the floodgates unleash ... now this isnt me , but i just want opinions on that , is counter flame on the same level as regular flame?

#6 what is being done to prevent me from being toxic ... but not the way you think

now obviously , i shall repent for my actions , and after my 14 days are up (wow thats alot for a first offense ... i think) , i shall return , a better changed man ... but what got me to this point , remember those feeders i talked about , oh and the trolls , and the other toxic people that arent me , they turned me into this ... i was a happy young man 5 years ago , but league and its community filled me with angst and rage , when im trying my heart out , and im doing well , and i lose because of another player , that tends to get people a little angry , but when it happens over and over and over again after a couple hundred games it wears on you , you start to become ... toxic , i understand league is filled with thousands upon thousands of players , and not all of them are high elo gods , not all of them are bottom of the barrel trash that needs to stick to normals , but when those two start to cross ... in silver or gold item 3070 , it gets hard ... it gets really hard , its hard to just let it go , when im goddyring it in the jungle Udyr , and then my adc just keeps feeding and feeding and feeding , the match can and will become unwinnable sometimes , depending on team comp , skill level , item choices ... alot of those things arent up to me , i cant change those ... but what , what may i ask you , is being done to combat these overflow of matches , and i know we've all had them , that just infuriate you , but then you get another , and then another , and then another , all in the same night ... i dont want to win everygame , but when you cant even give me one good match a night , what can you do?

Final Words

now im not here to debate my ban , i totally deserved it , ive been becoming more and more toxic over the past year , and this is the wake up call , i do think that 14 days is rough for a first offense , but perhaps its because of one of the no-no words i used ... but again there is context to that , and if you were to tell me it doesnt matter id say bull , but this post is meant to provoke and start a few questions being asked , if you have any comments id love to see them , and even reply to them summoner 3

Good luck out there summoners , yours truly Gangplank

also sorry for the double post , but im putting this on two boards

23 Comments

Umbral Regent3/29/2018, 9:58:32 AM2 votes

I'm gonna try and address these as best I can;

was i overly toxic in this game , or was it multiple games , id assume multiple games but why was this the breaking point...

It's difficult to say without seeing your chat logs, but, both are possibilities. The IFS can punish someone flat-out if their behavior is bad enough, but, for the most part, I imagine it gives most players some leniency in their punishments.

Moreover, the IFS can log reports as valid without issuing a punishment, and so, over a course of several matches, it is likely that enough valid reports come in that the IFS decides to step in and issue a punishment.

...was it the certain no-no word i used, and does the context in which its used at all come into play, was it the percentage of my team reporting me...

It depends on what you mean by "no-no" word, but, given that you mention it was a ban, I can only assume that it's hate speech, in which case, yes. Hate speech can certainly lead straight into a punishment.

Hate speech is also one of those cases I mentioned earlier about the IFS punishing flat-out - Hate speech and encouragements of self-harm are considered zero-tolerance, and so the IFS punishes those immediately upon a report being validated.

Context is virtually never considered for hate speech, and I would also say that the same goes for insults in general. It doesn't really matter if you're saying "but you're my idiot" or "what's good my [insert expletive here]", hate speech is still hate speech, and insults, generally, are still insults.

That said, I've seen some instances where, given manual review, some instances of insults (but not hate speech) were given a pass by Rioters, though it often was followed with a stern warning.

Lastly; how many members of your team (or how many people in a given match, for that matter) report you does not matter. As Riot Tantram has mentioned, the coding for the IFS is basically "If number of reports is greater than zero, mark game for review".

Outside of potential information from Report Details, any report past the first is disregarded.

is toxic and bossy the same thing?

This is primarily subjective, but, in my opinion, being bossy and being toxic aren't the same thing, nor are they mutually exclusive. I personally think that the IFS will forgive some degree of sternness, but when getting a point across also involves getting aggravated to that end, there's certainly bound to be trouble.

I think, honestly, the best takeaway should be this; if you have something you want to say, try and say it as cleanly and concisely as possible, and try to avoid repetition or pressing the matter. Say it once or twice, but definitely no more than three times. If they ignore you that long, you'll just have to resolve to do the best you can.

how do dou's come into play?

I think this (alongside the other stuff mentioned in this paragraph) can be best summed up with two words: They don't.

Reports aren't affected by party size, MMR, skill level (which is kinda the same thing as MMR?), time played, or money spent. If someone is reported, they are reviewed, and if they broke the rules, they're punished. That's kinda just that.

but what if they deserve it?

This question of yours is kind of two-fold, from what I can see - I'll address the easiest part first.

In general, when it comes to people who are intentionally feeding or trolling, if they're doing things directly to harm your team's chances of winning - they deserve to be punished. But, that punishment is not ours, as players, to issue. We can only report the player and trust the IFS to handle them. Worse comes to worst, or if we want a little extra security, we could file a Support Ticket, but they won't tell us of the player's punishment or account status, for privacy reasons.

As for the other part...If someone is playing sub-optimally, or look like their build could use improvements, there's two things that aught to be known:

First, try to be as tactful as possible when approaching the issue. Constructive feedback would certainly be difficult, but at the very least you can avoid destructive criticism. Don't mince words, but don't attack their build or their ideas, either; outline that you find it odd, and, if they ask for advice or improvements, feel very free to guide them.

Second, know that, when they're halfway through the match and they've already bought some odd items, it's much too late for them to go back on it and buy something else. You can suggest they buy something else in future matches, but that's about all you can do.

toxicity feeds on toxicity

Let's hypothetically say that you're not with your duo partner, and just one person decides to start flaming you. Your team as a whole now has to deal with one flamer. Then, you start retaliating. Now, three other people at the very least have to deal with two people on their team in-fighting. Not a great situation to be in.

For this reason, reports and punishments don't take other player's chat into context - there's no "who started it", just "who participated in it".

As for where anger management issues are concerned, that is ultimately just something you'll have to learn to work with. It's generally advisable to avoid using the chat if you know you're angry, and there are numerous ways to vent and purge that anger that don't involve negative chat.

If you need help with anger management stuff, feel free to ask about it. A good lump-some of people on the boards would likely throw in their two cents, and I'd be more than willing to offer mine.

what is being done to prevent me from being toxic ... but not the way you think

I think the biggest issue here is self-moderation. It's difficult to deal with consecutive losses for no good reason - and, trust me, I know the feeling. I'm only a week into playing Flex 3's, and it's hell. But, ultimately, playing more and more matches after the first or second or third have gone poorly is only putting yourself at further risk of lashing out or exploding.

Would that Riot had a magic bullet for those avoidable losses for us, but sadly it's just not possible. So, it's on us as players to prevent a bad situation from getting worse for is - moreover, it's our job to make sure we're not continuing playing well past the point where our nerve is lost. It's difficult to put the game down and take a break, but, taking breaks is the best way to prevent ourselves from losing it.

I guess, though, that it might be worthwhile for Riot to make a informational video on de-stressing and the like? I know they recently had a blog post about it, but I'm not sure if that suffices. Either way, it sort of comes down to us to manage ourselves.

So, I hope that answers as much as possible. I'm glad to hear that you understand your punishment and are going to reform from it, though I'm also sorry to hear that it was an escalated punishment. Just be very careful from hereout - your next punishment for a good while is probably going to be a permanent ban.

o brigid o3/29/2018, 7:54:55 PM1 votes
  1. It's almost never "just this match" unless you do something like use slurs and other hate speech, encourage self harm, or make death threats. when you get reported (valid reports), if it isn't zero-tolerance behavior, it all just sorta builds up on your account. if/when you get your first punishments they come with warnings that further negative behavior will yield harsher punishments.
  2. I assume a shot calling role in pretty much every game with every team full of strangers. Telling them what to do isn't toxic... i.e. "JGL dead. Baron now." or "Top keep pushing." "Jgl grab rift herald for top" or "let's invade"... But being a bitch if/when they don't listen to you is.
  3. 1 report = 9 reports. Just 1 report flags a game for review. If multiple reports are filed, they still only trigger one review. Multiple reviews would be redundant and yield the same results as 1 review.
  4. If someone doesn't know what they are doing/building something fucked up/experimenting... there is nothing wrong with letting a player know why their build is ineffective. But there's a difference between, "your build is trash wtf are you doing" and "yasuo, nothing in your kit scales with ap so you really shouldn't be building a morellonomicon. infinity edge will give you better burst."
  5. context doesn't matter. it doesn't come into play. just because someone else is being toxic doesn't mean you aren't still expected to keep your cool. no one forces you to react to toxic players in an inflammatory way. you can't put out flames with more flames.
  6. again, we choose how we respond to situations. it's no one's job to babysit us and hold our hands to make sure we don't turn into a bunch of ragey assholes. it's not Riot's job. they're providing a service, they have a pretty clear code of conduct. it's not on them to manipulate you into behaving, but it is on them to remove you if you don't behave.
HalcyonDweller3/30/2018, 12:14:17 AM1 votes

https://i.imgur.com/6RsVpEZ.png

YerroFever3/30/2018, 11:55:36 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=o GangPlank o,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=B9Jvs4ad,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-03-29T07:20:34.309+0000)

now first things first , lets get it out of the way , i was banned ... wow no way , toxic you deserved it , oh hell yeah i deserved it , i was being an ass

but id like a few of my questions to be answered and then i can rest peacefully

#1 was it just this game/match?

was i overly toxic in this game , or was it multiple games , id assume multiple games but why was this the breaking point ... was it the certain no-no word i used , and does the context in which its used at all come into play , was it the percentage of my team reporting me , what exactly lead to this , because i often duo , and my partner , while not toxic , has his own thoughts and opinions , which he tends to support giving me his view on the current events

This is something only you can answer. Did you have chat restrictions and then a temp ban and then a permaban? If so, that means you were toxic in multiple games and not just one.

Outside of cheating/scripting/botting/purchasing accounts/sharing accounts, people don't really get permabanned with just one game in their whole history of punishments. There usually is a history of multiple games that got punished in the past.

#2 is toxic and bossy the same thing?

well is it? the question is pretty straight forward , if your doing bad , i dont have to be toxic towards you , but i certainly wont be nice , so avoiding any overly harsh language or profanity , could i still say the same things , but "nicer" , i say some rough things in the game , either to get a laugh or to get a point across , which of course usually gets me nowhere and frustrates my team mate(s) , but what if im right , what happens then ... what happens when all the harsh but true leadership falls on deaf ears , and it only aggravates my team

Toxic and bossy aren't the same thing. You can be bossy but not toxic and you can be bossy and toxic. It's really a matter of how you phrase things. You can be very polite and say something like "we need wards on baron and dragon and behind the pits so we know if they're going to try and steal" vs "you fucking noob dumb asses don't know we need wards on objectives and where people hide to steal?!? Uninstall shit for brains bronzies."

Both messages are for the purpose of instructing people to have proper vision on the map, one is toxic while the other isn't.

#3 how do dou's come into play?

i duo , you duo , he , she , we dou ... now if im reporting someone , my dou will often report them as well , of course for good reason , but is a dou reporting someone worth the same amount of reportage , does mmr come into play , skill level , time played , money spent ... that will come into play in the next question

Reporting triggers a review. 1 report or 9 reports, doesn't matter. The IFS will review the game regardless of how many people report. People have tried to claim that pre-mades are the reason someone gets banned but when they post the chat logs, their text is usually awful and horrible.

Tantram has stated that the code is boolean.

#4 but what if they deserve it?

now no one deserves to be called names or have derogatory comments made towards them , but your build ... DAAAAWWWG THAT BUILD STANK , this goes back to the bossiness aspect as well , where do you draw the line , if im not directly putting you down , but if your build is directly influencing our teams ability to do ... things , am i allowed to say something? probably not what i said , but yeah , something polite and nice , but when that player is rude towards you , and then you look at the little items they have , and they fill you with rage from the depths of hades ... what then? what if theyre toxic , or feeding , or just playing below the skill level of the rest of your team , what if this player is costing you the game , because of the mistakes they consistently make throughout the game ... at that point , they are ruining my fun , and being nice to them is the least of my concern , understandable id hope

You can suggest that a player get item X because it'll help but don't call a person or their build trash or troll. Another thing to say is "we need a X" and if that's an ADC item, they'll usually get the hint.

#5 toxicity feeds on toxicity

what happens when they start it , context sort of comes into play here , if a player is being rude towards me or my lovely lux support dou , whom im not laning with , because jungle main of course , but yknow some people have a hard time controlling their anger , and if you are going to allow the feeders , the trolls , the toxic players who never seem to get banned , to play the game , let alone the COMPETITIVE RANKED mode , its only fair if you allow people with anger management issues to play too ... but they can only go so far , and when someone starts flaming them or saying rude things , the floodgates unleash ... now this isnt me , but i just want opinions on that , is counter flame on the same level as regular flame?

Yes, counter flame is the same as initiating flame. You are judged on your behavior. You flame, you get punished. Doesn't matter why you flamed. The best thing to do is mute, report after game, and move on to your next game.

#6 what is being done to prevent me from being toxic ... but not the way you think

now obviously , i shall repent for my actions , and after my 14 days are up (wow thats alot for a first offense ... i think) , i shall return , a better changed man ... but what got me to this point , remember those feeders i talked about , oh and the trolls , and the other toxic people that arent me , they turned me into this ... i was a happy young man 5 years ago , but league and its community filled me with angst and rage , when im trying my heart out , and im doing well , and i lose because of another player , that tends to get people a little angry , but when it happens over and over and over again after a couple hundred games it wears on you , you start to become ... toxic , i understand league is filled with thousands upon thousands of players , and not all of them are high elo gods , not all of them are bottom of the barrel trash that needs to stick to normals , but when those two start to cross ... in silver or gold item 3070 , it gets hard ... it gets really hard , its hard to just let it go , when im goddyring it in the jungle Udyr , and then my adc just keeps feeding and feeding and feeding , the match can and will become unwinnable sometimes , depending on team comp , skill level , item choices ... alot of those things arent up to me , i cant change those ... but what , what may i ask you , is being done to combat these overflow of matches , and i know we've all had them , that just infuriate you , but then you get another , and then another , and then another , all in the same night ... i dont want to win everygame , but when you cant even give me one good match a night , what can you do?

You are being given chances to reform. Riot is giving you notice that your behavior is toxic and that you have to want to be better and not be toxic. Riot can't prevent you from being toxic because Riot can't control you. What Riot can control is to what extent can your toxicity affect others. For example, if you are spewing toxic words in chat, players can mute you to prevent seeing more toxicity. If you are spamming pings to make people's ears bleed, then they can mute your pings.

Riot can't cure your toxicity because how you handle situations is out of Riot's control. If you want to flame and be a dick to people, Riot can't stop you from doing it, but Riot can help shield people after someone has been a dick to them.

You have to learn how to deal with adversity and take responsibility for your actions. No one is obligated to coddle you through life and make sure you experience nothing but rainbows and sunshine. That's not how life is. You are going to run into bad situations and you have to learn to deal with conflict and negative situations constructively. If you cannot, then Riot will permaban you and that is on you.

Riot has no duty to make you into an upstanding member of the human race and be your therapist. It is your duty to work on yourself and find outside counseling if you need it to become an upstanding member of the human race.

Take responsibility for your own actions and stop trying to blame others for how you act.

Final Words

now im not here to debate my ban , i totally deserved it , ive been becoming more and more toxic over the past year , and this is the wake up call , i do think that 14 days is rough for a first offense , but perhaps its because of one of the no-no words i used ... but again there is context to that , and if you were to tell me it doesnt matter id say bull , but this post is meant to provoke and start a few questions being asked , if you have any comments id love to see them , and even reply to them summoner 3

Good luck out there summoners , yours truly Gangplank

also sorry for the double post , but im putting this on two boards