Everyone who defends the "combat against toxicity". How do you explain this?

Salty Mc Feed·1/12/2020, 9:39:38 PM·4 votes·2,461 views

https://i.imgur.com/5PzqOUN.jpg

"We are really trying to improve the community and make it more inclusive, we are the good guys, NO we don't advocate for a hypersensitive attitude, people who say that are just "tOxIc". This isn't a witch hunt, that creates more social conflicts than it solves. We are not creating an environment where players unlearn normal social interaction and get triggered by the smallest stuff such as a ping or a completely neutral question or comment. Reporting people that make you feel "uncomfortable" is perfectly reasonable, it doesn't reduce the quality of communication or even teamplay to the lowest possible common denominator."

You really believe that? I hope not.

But I really have to wonder what went through Riots head when they DECIDED to write such a "tip". I'd love to know the reasoning behind this.

33 Comments

Umbral Regent1/12/2020, 9:57:26 PM12 votes

It's a reasonable enough piece of advice. I think you're dramatically overstating just what being made uncomfortable entails. If I was in a football/soccer/whatever team, and one of my teammates started making crude, vulgar comments, I'd of course report them to the coach. That's not "unlearning social interaction".

But then, you're not actually talking about stuff that'd conceivably make someone uncomfortable.

...get triggered by the smallest stuff such as a ping or a completely neutral question or comment.

You're strawmanning to make it look like anyone who reports someone is a hypersensitive snowflake who can't handle social interaction. And by that alone, I can tell you're not honestly looking at the tip as the advice it is, but an excuse to insult and demean people who would rather toxicity not be a part of League.

And hey, if you don't like how League handles toxicity or encourages players to report those who make the game worse for them, (ignoring the fact that what makes someone uncomfortable may not inherently be punishable) then you are absolutely free to go find another game that holds the kind of lax behavioral standards or concern for their playerbase you want.

ModPeriscope1/12/2020, 9:52:52 PM8 votes

What are you quoting from? Those lines don’t sound vaguely familiar, despite sounding like they’re from Riot.

Seems like a reasonable tip. It indicates that Riot uses reports, and indicates to new players what to do if they come across a negative player.

Modi1/12/2020, 10:16:00 PM7 votes

We are not creating an environment where players unlearn normal social interaction and get triggered by the smallest stuff such as a ping or a completely neutral question or comment.

Stopped reading at this point. Normal social interaction doesn't involve disparaging teammates when they are struggling or making mistakes.

Naymliss1/12/2020, 9:46:59 PM6 votes

What's the harm in that tip? If something that makes someone "uncomfortable" is something trivial, then the player who got reported won't get punished. However, if they're actually doing something it encourages players to report them instead of bickering for minutes on end.

ModUlanopo1/13/2020, 1:33:54 AM5 votes

creating an environment where players unlearn normal social interaction

I have a feeling you're making an Argument from Stoicism, which is the idea that people - especially men - should adopt an unfeeling and indifferent attitude to most provocations and aggressions. If you want to live your life that way, far be it from me to try and convince you otherwise, just know that as a philosophy Stoicism tends to be especially unhealthy because it teaches people their feelings are wrong and need to be suppressed, rather than understood and worked through.

With respect to League, it is perfectly acceptable to be angry or frustrated at other players. What's not okay is lashing out at them. The correct response, as always, is MUTE, REPORT AND MOVE ON.

Leaf on Bush1/12/2020, 9:44:49 PM3 votes

That noob Lee Sin who missed 2 Q's in a row lost us the game and losing makes me very uncomfortable... so i guess I report that player?

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Doombot1/12/2020, 9:49:09 PM2 votes

People who downvote here but don't actually come out and give their opinion are probably the same who frequently abuse the reports for completely ridiculous reasons, such as "my support asked me to not just afk farm in lane and help with trading, so toxic, report report, I can't handle anything so I need to drag everyone down to my level".

Nightsky Pirate1/13/2020, 1:48:57 AM2 votes

I'm not sure how bad it is, while I think there are people who are carelessly reporting, I believe the system is also designed to handle false reports with decent efficacy. Who knows how much the learning system has adjusted to incorporate all those reports, all the finger pointing? I'm sure even a machine would be skewed toward sensitivity over time.

It appears that the system is more sensitive with folks who have suffered a punishment, but I suspect part of it is that the machine has erroneously identified some behaviors of each individual who has been toxic. I'm not sure, but I think the system personalizes each user's terms in relative toxicity values- using the same terms in repeated games that you happen to be reported in will increase that term's toxicity value- but moreso for that individual than in general.

I think. I can say with certainty that repeated use of toxic words or phrases by the same individual propels them faster along the punishment track. The purpose of that is to identify unwillingness to reform. I sure would like to see the code myself.

So... is this tip bad? No. The advice is encouraging the use of the report feature, which IS important to the feature's successful use. Overuse of it is a separate issue. If anything, I'd ask that another tip be introduced that suggests the user be thoughtful about the belligerent's guilt rather than just slapping anyone they don't like with a report.

Lauchmelder1/13/2020, 9:46:14 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Salty Mc Feed,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=AQhagFdB,comment-id=,timestamp=2020-01-12T21:39:38.493+0000) Reporting people that make you feel "uncomfortable" is perfectly reasonable, it doesn't reduce the quality of communication or even teamplay to the lowest possible common denominator."

You really believe that? I hope not.

I generally don't care about what a random types to me on the internet.

Will I report you? If you annoy me enough sure. Does that mean I feel offended (or anything for that matter)? No. Your account (and subsequently you) don't mean anything to me. You could wish death upon everybody I know and I wouldn't care. Your words are nothing but hot air to me.

At the end of the day we're playing a game. If you feel the need to insult me or anyone else when it doesn't go your way then I feel the need to give the IFS a chance to remove you from the game completely. It's one thing to be annoyed at your teammates, it's a completely different thing to cry about it like a baby (and yes, that's how toxic idiots sound to me)

XJ999999999999991/12/2020, 9:46:27 PM1 votes

by uncomfortable, it means through social interaction. harassing, saying your real life name trying to creep you out, etc. You are getting the context of the tip wrong.

might as well remind players. cant report people after the game for things while waiting 5 mins for a 15 min ff game.

TrulyBland1/13/2020, 2:47:14 AM1 votes

The way I read it, this tip is meant for the kind of people who end up complaining about being banned for "defending themselves". Is someone making you uncomfortable? Report them. That is the singular way that Riot expects you to handle that situation.

And assuming that is how it is meant to be read, then that tip is absolutely needed. Perhaps it could be worded a tad better, but I honestly don't see a way to improve it.

Edit: This seems about the best improvement I can think of.

[{quoted}](name=Nightsky Pirate,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=AQhagFdB,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2020-01-13T01:48:57.264+0000)

If anything, I'd ask that another tip be introduced that suggests the user be thoughtful about the belligerent's guilt rather than just slapping anyone they don't like with a report.

Inkling Commando1/13/2020, 3:08:33 AM1 votes

it should be removed because it never fucking works. hundreds of reports are filed each day and of those hundreds of files maybe 1 or 2 actually get a notification back stating a player was dealt with. another dozen are backfired causing the reporter and not the reported to be punished. and the rest are left in the dark.