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A better way to encourge better behavoir in ranked

Troxic··1 votes·276 views

You all know I don't agree with punishing people for what they type. I think it doesn't change anything, or people, and no one would simply quit league just because toxic players don't get punished. This is evident because you run into toxic players daily. YOU KNOW you will be chatted to by someone toxic or offensive nearly every day. Yet, do you quit the game? Of course not.

And, in the end, that's all I should have to say to prove that punishment for what you say in chat has no value in the game or effects how many people will play it.

But since you guys feel a deep need to do SOMETHING (intentions are what matters right, not results), how about the game dings toxic players based on reports and chat context, and players are slowly sifted to being matched with people who are close to their toxicity level. Meaning, if you want to be toxic and don't care about other people saying rude or offensive things, then you can play ranked with those who are also the same way, but if i you want to be rewarded by being able to play with players who are less toxic, well, keep up the good work and you will be matched more and more with less toxic players as the toxic players are matches up with toxic players.

How about that? Does that satisfy the need you have to take corrective action while still not actually banning or restricting players for what they type in the game?

4 Comments

RallerenP4 votes

I think it doesn't change anything, or people, and no one would simply quit league just because toxic players don't get punished.

What a horrible assumption. Tons of people have already quit because of toxicity and removing the punishments will definently make the community more toxic.

And, in the end, that's all I should have to say to prove that punishment for what you say in chat has no value in the game or effects how many people will play it.

It's really not. It's in no way a convincing argument. A convincing argument would require you to prove to me that the current punishment system doesn't reduce toxicity. You would have to prove to me that without a punishment system players wouldn't just be screaming at eachother the whole time and it wouldn't be a horrible experience. Because that's what i've seen from most other unmoderated communities.

But since you guys feel a deep need to do SOMETHING (intentions are what matters right, not results), how about the game dings toxic players based on reports and chat context, and players are slowly sifted to being matched with people who are close to their toxicity level. Meaning, if you want to be toxic and don't care about other people saying rude or offensive things, then you can play ranked with those who are also the same way, but if i you want to be rewarded by being able to play with players who are less toxic, well, keep up the good work and you will be matched more and more with less toxic players as the toxic players are matches up with toxic players.

What you're proposing is a "prisoners island" concept. Riot has explained why it doesn't work with 2 reasons stated, and ethical one and a technical one.

  • It's a horrible experience for anyone trying to climb out of prisoners island, one nearly impossible. Toxicity fuels toxicity and as such anyone looking to reform will have an INCREDIBLY hard time. It doesn't solve the problem. Instead punishments that gradually increases are much more effective at getting people to reform. Infact most people never get punished again after recieving a 10-game punishment.

  • The queues would be EXTREMELY unhealthy. Matchmaking is hard enough as it is, having to match players based on behaviour would make it even more unbalanced. Queue times would be longer for everyone, matches would be more unbalanced.

https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/01/ask-riot-banished-to-prisoners-island/

How about that? Does that satisfy the need you have to take corrective action while still not actually banning or restricting players for what they type in the game?

So no, it doesn't. It would make my (and everyone elses) League experience MUCH worse.

Troxic1 votes

"What a horrible assumption. Tons of people have already quit because of toxicity and removing the punishments will definently make the community more toxic"

How many? Where are your numbers? How many of those people were going to quit regardless and just use toxicity as an excuse. You are the one making a huge assumption

"It's really not. It's in no way a convincing argument. A convincing argument would require you to prove to me that the current punishment system doesn't reduce toxicity. You would have to prove to me that without a punishment system players wouldn't just be screaming at eachother the whole time and it wouldn't be a horrible experience. Because that's what i've seen from most other unmoderated communities"

That is ridiculous. That would be like passing a law, and then putting the burden of proof ont he people to prove the law does't help, instead of proving it helps first. You thinking is severely backwards, and it calls into question anything you say from this point on.

Furthermore, I experience toxic players every day in league. So what? I can mute them, or grow up and ignore them.

Okay so prisoner island is a bad idea. So lets just not have that and not have chat bans or punishments for whats said in chat. The focus should be on what makes people act toxic, which is a game that frequently has feeders, trolls, boosted morons, and balanced in a way where if Draven gets 2 early kills, its GG

TrulyBland2 votes

So... noone would ever quit the game because of toxicity because everybody that hasn't quit yet is currently still playing it? Does that really sound like a logic argument to you? I know plenty of people who started playing less and less because they were no longer able to enjoy it, until they finally did quit. Those people did quit because of toxicity, and even before they quit, toxicity made them play less (and needless to say, made them less inclined to spend money on the game).

Anyway, the idea of prisoner's island is as old as Riot's punishment system, and while admittedly their stance on a lot of things have changed over time, it never changed in regards to this specific idea.

Can't find the actual original post right now, but a quote of said post, which covers the big reasons: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2117711

Well, in discussions we commonly refer to this as the Prisoner's Island idea--basically, all the negative toxic players get lumped together on their own island and get matchmade with each other.

This would definitely not be usable in Ranked because it would split the ladder into two demographics and no longer be about the best players.

In Normal Modes... there's a lot of potential discussion points that are just difficult to predict. For example, we know that toxic players tend to experience more toxicity because their teammates or opponents reciprocate their toxicity--that means on Prisoner's Island, the average game is going to be horrendously toxic to the point that the players might just quit (or create smurfs and wreck havoc on low level players).

Secondly, what happens when someone on Prisoner's Island invites a friend that is new to the game? The new player experiences Prisoner's Island and never wants to play again.

There's actually quite a few more issues, it's a pretty interesting topic around the offices.

Just a small sidenote: That post was original by Lyte, somebody with a doctor in cognitive neuroscience. That might not make him infallible, but it certainly implies that he knows what he's talking about.

Edit for more recent info by Riot: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/01/ask-riot-banished-to-prisoners-island/

Prisoner’s island design doesn’t work for League for two major reasons:

Reason One: We believe in a real shot at reform for unsportsmanlike players [...] Reason Two: Prisoner’s island is a truly awful experience for the “prisoners” in more ways than one [...]

(I removed the in-depth answers to keep the post a bit shorter)

Troxic1 votes

Okay, so no prisoner island.

"So... noone would ever quit the game because of toxicity because everybody that hasn't quit yet is currently still playing it? Does that really sound like a logic argument to you?"

First of all, you don't have numbers. You don't know how many people were going to quit regardless and used toxicity for an reason. You also don't know how many of them quit and then come back. Most players deal with toxic players every day they play. If that was a reason to quit, then there would be a whole bunch of people always quitting.

I think if you were to poll every player who plays ranked and ask them what they REALLY care about more, what people say in chat would not be as important to what players DO in the game. The feeding, the trolling, the playing stupid and getting picked off repeatedly being out of position etc causes way more frustration leads to players being "toxic".

The problem is the game itself. You won't fix human behavoir. I have 6 accounts in case I get banned on one of them for going off on an idiot. Which, when something happens where our ADC is at bot lane farming while we lose mid and the nexus, and the game, is entirely appropriate. That player should be ripped and called whatever name anyone feels i appropriate to express their outrage.

Because the reality is, when a player queues up ranked to play like shit or play bad on purpose, he his basically saying that 4 other peoples time has no value as long as he thinks its funny, and that he has decided for 4 other people what value they should or shouldn't place on a given activity. That is unbelievably more rude and inconsiderate than any amount of words in chat could ever be.

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