Riots banning system makes zero logical sense

açid··1 votes·3,607 views

So I've sadly been playing League of heroin for five years and I've finally been perma banned for the second time (second time wtf). For flaming other people who flame or for offending people that need to get over words on a screen (cyber bullying does not exist). However looking into it alot more than I should I realized that having a system that makes players more inclined to report and flame eachother for reporting and flaming eachother is toxic in general and that if you find someone else toxic or if you're legitimately getting offended somehow you're more than likely scapegoating and are toxic yourself.

Players that are legitimately not toxic don't harrass other players for their behavior as you agree with however in that case where they don't judge they also dont report other players for their behavior because they have no reason to (Its only destructive). The banning system actually does not assist the truly neutral player It just puts toxic players against eachother furthering the idea of a toxic community. A toxic player wants other players to get mad so they can report them and get them banned for it making the banning system a weapon for the toxic player. Banning a player doesnt even stop the player from playing league it just takes away their name, level, skins and champions (I WONDER WHY). Which only furthers the use of buying used accounts and therefor bot accounts which only get banned to create more.

A better solution to your "problem" would be to take players away from chat or even to take away ranked to enforce "breaks" on a player like the ones the person on the ticket form suggested I have. In my personal experience I entered a ranked game on a stressed out day died once, got flamed for it died again got called an inter and was told I'd be reported and then when I say something back to VERBALLY DEFEND MYSELF (Whats that?) I got called toxic and was told I had a mental problem. I didnt report anyone but I was most certainly reported and permabanned with my 2,500 hour account that I also spent $350 on. My fault yes but also Riots for convincing players to hate other players more by making up a fallacy about a toxic community that inclines players to blame eachother and inforcing rules on the grounds of said fallacy.

Keeping shit real shouldn't get you banned. and once again you only witness toxicity to the degree that you are being toxic yourself, banning players for being toxic only makes them come back more toxic because they basically had theyre money and time and lives stolen from them. My theory is that Riots goal is to convince a permabanned player that the ban was justified and that the player was wrong so that said player will spend more money on another account.

Becoming a less "toxic" player isnt about getting banned and coming back thinking you were wrong its about just playing the game and witnessing the positivity of the community around you not judge you for being mad at a videogame when its natural.

Ive never been permabanned and said wow I should learn my lesson however I have been toxic in a game and treated with positivity in response and said wow I'm being a fucking asshole. I hope you unban every permabanned account. Also you guys really ban T1 call him the most toxic player and then cast him saying he's changed? LMAO hes the same person. gg.

71 Comments

ModThe Djinn6 votes

Keeping shit real shouldn't get you banned.

There's a difference between "keeping shit real" and "being an ass about it."

The Former: "Hey dude -- seems like you're struggling into that match-up. You should play conservatively and give up farm if needed, 'cause you can't beat him in a fight."

The Latter: "Hey asshole. Stop fucking feeding Olaf. Were you in the back of the line when the brains were being handed out?"

Similarly, there's a difference between "defending yourself" and "being an ass about it."

açid2 votes

lmao whats the difference between defending yourself and being an ass about it

ModThe Djinn6 votes

{quoted}lmao whats the difference between defending yourself and being an ass about it

Examples of self defense:

  • I'm just having a rough game.
  • It's a match-up I'm not great at, and I'm doing well considering.
  • It seemed like the best option of the options I had available. It didn't work out, but I'm confident it was the best call I could have made.
  • I'll focus on my game. You focus on yours.
  • I'm still in the game. You're not making me play any better by telling me I'm losing.

Examples of being an ass:

  • Shut up. You're losing too.
  • Don't complain about me when you're 0/5.
  • I wouldn't be losing if you knew how to gank.
açid2 votes

Saying "I'm just having a rough game" to a person who is being "toxic" torwards you Is just understanding where they are coming from and if thats your legitament response reporting them would be contradictory. The only reason a player would be "toxic" is to get another player "toxic" for the sake of calling them the one thats "wrong" and to get them reported instead. when in reality all players are "wrong" for blaming their crappy games on others. When you take away the idea that verbally calling people names is genuinely offensive you take away the power of the verbal "offensiveness". Because shit talking is just a part of videogames and the point is to get someone else mad because its all actually a joke. Nobody has hard lasting feelings from "toxicity" but they do have hard feelings when an entire community is trying to call them "wrong" for responding in they're own way therefor they are stuck blaming others. Freedom of speech exist because words dont hurt people and if someone says they do they are lying, just playing victim and are trying to hide themselves. Not even 69% of players just say "It seemed like the best option of options I had available, Reported." They say "go fuck yourself reported lol."

ModPrandine1 votes

{quoted}

Saying "I'm just having a rough game" to a person who is being "toxic" torwards you Is just understanding where they are coming from and if thats your legitament response reporting them would be contradictory. The only reason a player would be "toxic" is to get another player "toxic" for the sake of calling them the one thats "wrong" and to get them reported instead. when in reality all players are "wrong" for blaming their crappy games on others. When you take away the idea that verbally calling people names is genuinely offensive you take away the power of the verbal "offensiveness". Because shit talking is just a part of videogames and the point is to get someone else mad because its all actually a joke. Nobody has hard lasting feelings from "toxicity" but they do have hard feelings when an entire community is trying to call them "wrong" for responding in they're own way therefor they are stuck blaming others. Freedom of speech exist because words dont hurt people and if someone says they do they are lying, just playing victim and are trying to hide themselves. Not even 69% of players just say "It seemed like the best option of options I had available, Reported." They say "go fuck yourself reported lol."

  1. There's a difference between trash talking and just talking like trash. Even in professional sports those who take it too far are given penalties such as fines and/or suspensions.
  2. Freedom of speech =/= freedom of speech consequences, only prevents the US government from creating speech limiting laws and it doesn't apply to privately owned establishments such as Riot Games.
  3. Words can and do hurt people, with the reasoning that they don't often use by those who want to upset others or say whatever they want accountability free. Yes the argument can be made that they only have as much power as one lets them and sometimes something needs to be said even if it upsets someone but nevertheless the point still stands. Why would you continue to say insults even after you were asked to stop regardless if it offended and/or upset someone or not?
açid1 votes

How do words hurt people

adv3rick1 votes

they are both examples of defending yourself, you cant be a passive pussy when some toxic ass hat is being a douche. You honestly have to be an asshole back to silence that troll, but also "I wouldnt be losing if you knew how to gank" this statement is true when enemy junglers are camping lanes and your own jungle is jacking off in a bush when you ask for ganks either through text or the ping system. Honestly i don't even believe that you yourself have played this game and know the types of people its filled with.

zPOOPz5 votes

May I ask you for a favor of re-editing your post with some paragraphs?

Arcade Lulu4 votes

Yeahh i ain't even gonna read that horrible wall of text

But, if you break the rules, you'll be punished. If you consistently break the rules, you'll be perma banned because riot doesn't want you to play their game anymore Pretty simple, huh, and makes a ton of sense

açid1 votes

reported for being toxic torwards my wall of text

VindicatorOFThey2 votes

He just said how the current system is handling the punishments.

Where is the toxic part that i did not see ?

KFCeytron3 votes

So, it has come to this: someone displayed misbehavior in a LoL match in flagrant disregard for the game's rules, ToS, EULA, and Summoner's Code. That's unfortunate, and I'm sorry you had to deal with it. If this misbehavior happened in chat (including emotes or ping) and they don't respond positively to a single, courteous, constructive request to focus on the game, your best option is to mute that player. Submit a report after the match. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by asking them to keep it down and then notifying library staff and moving to another area.

Do not respond with misbehavior of your own! If you do that, your teammates may mute and report you, and those reports would be valid. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by getting into a shouting match with them. Just because someone else started it doesn't justify you in continuing it. I'm sure you're familiar with the "s/he started it" trope, where two children get into an argument or fight and then try to claim innocence of any wrongdoing by claiming that they didn't instigate it. As any parent, teacher, or other supervisor of children will tell you, that excuse doesn't fly. When Dad is trying to drive you to Disneyland and your annoying brother starts making faces at you as he's previously been told not to, you should calmly ask him to stop, and then, if that doesn't work, calmly notify your parents of the problem. Making faces at him or shouting at him has never been a good way to get him to stop, and it makes you just as guilty of that as he.

Riot doesn't care who started it. Someone else's misbehavior does not justify your own.

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

  • Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest of the players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game.If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on.
  • Reports are a vital piece to the puzzle. If you are not sure of what sort of behavior is reportable take a look at the Reporting a Player FAQ

Your opinion of the rules is of zero relevance. When a cop stops you for going 40 in a 25 zone, you can claim "I think the limit should be 45 here" all you want. You're still getting a ticket. If a librarian asks you to keep your voice down while you use the facilities, shouting that libraries should be loud will simply get you escorted out. If you go to a friend's house who insists that you remove your shoes while you're in their home, "that's a stupid rule and I do what I want" will lose you a friend. If you are using someone else's services, facilities, equipment, etc., you abide by their rules or you deal with the consequences. If you think the rules should change, that is a completely different conversation (and I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for your chances at convincing Riot to change their rules to allow behavior like yours).

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

We work with the overall community and within our own company guidelines to identify what disruptive behavior is and what the consequences for those behaviors should be. We understand that it can be difficult to know where the line is, which is why we provide chat logs and we have a few tiers in the ban process in order to allow for you to learn and grow.

Riot's punishment system used to hand out stacking chat restrictions, such that consistently toxic players basically had a permanent chat restriction. Unfortunately, it turns out that such players used their few chat opportunities to be toxic, and, when they couldn't be as toxic as they wanted to, they resorted to committing non-chat offenses such as griefing (following someone around and taking their farm, using wall abilities to interfere with their play, etc.) or inting. The purpose of the punishment system is to eliminate rule-breaking, not make it worse. Thus, if a couple chat restrictions don't make any difference in a player's misbehavior, the system ramps up the punishments until the player is permabanned and thus unable to use that account to break any more rules ever again.

Riot used to give toxic players a long series of gradually-increasing suspensions. However, they found that players who got more than a few punishments would never stop misbehaving and receiving punishments. As the goal of the punishment system is to eliminate rule-breaking and Riot has absolutely no interest in coddling toxic players, the system was changed to eliminate this long tail of irredeemable players. Compared to the hundreds or even thousands of typical players who are bothered over dozens or hundreds of matches ruined by a toxic player, that one player's ability to annoy people merits no sympathy or concern. The preferred outcome of punishing a misbehaving player is reform: according to Riot's figures, most players who get one punishment never get another. However, when a player refuses to stop breaking the rules after a few warnings (punishments), they are removed from the game with a permaban because Riot no longer believes them capable of reform.

Did you find something in Riot's store allowing you to break the ToS? No, because such a service is not offered. Regardless of how much money you spend, you are required to follow the same rules as everyone else. If the IFS determines that you've been validly reported in violation of those rules, you'll be punished according to those rules. If you wanted to avoid a punishment, you should've followed the rules.

The ability to play on a new account doesn't negate the benefits of permabanning toxic players. If every single one of them did that, then it would at least be a minor punishment, taking away their unlocked skins, icons, champs, and so on. Any who don't do that are removed from the game and the problem is solved in at least those instances. Quite frankly, Riot and 99.994% of the playerbase (people without permabans, according to Riot's figures on this, which I see no reason to doubt) don't give one whit for how permabanned players feel about being ejected from the game for consistently appalling behavior. Most permabanned players stop playing the game. It's extremely rare for a permabanned player to be so oblivious and/or unbalanced that they accumulate multiple permabans on a series of accounts. Riot does not have the wherewithal to prevent that except when a highly-visible player (such as a popular streamer) engages in this behavior, in which case they may issue an ID ban (Riot employees manually ban any account that such a player is seen to use).

The money Riot gains from duplicate purchases on serial permabanned players' accounts pales in comparison to the many typical players driven away by toxic customers. It is not a conspiracy. Riot just doesn't want those toxic players to play the game anymore.

You are certainly allowed to defend yourself from toxic chat, which is accomplished by muting. This is a 100% effective method. Flaming back is a 0% effective method that also constitutes unacceptable behavior and thus opens you up to reports and punishments. Read about this in more detail here.

açid2 votes

Toxicity doesn't exist unless you engage in the toxic behavior yourself. Real men don't care about what others say but they'll argue for the sake of it and possibly report each other because theyre told to. If a persons shouting in a library and I dont like it I mute them(Leauge of Library's). If I want something to do I tell them theyre wrong and report them. Its the judgement of the behavior that gives said behavior the power to be "negative" Don't be sorry someone called me a scumfuck degenerate because I should just feel decent when I mute them/called them something back. Talking trash to other people in a videogame isn't supposed to be a personal thing nobody truely gets offended unless its "youre toxic. No you're toxic" Where Riot is ontop saying "Nope youre all toxic". My opinion of the rules does matter because I'm speaking on factual grounds. The only kind of player "toxicity" drives away is videogamedunkey thanks to the banning system. You cant say I'm completely wrong Its not a "conspiracy" its facts nice try tho nobodys yelling in librarys

Posui Gart4 votes

Real men don't care about what others say but they'll argue for the sake of it and possibly report each other because theyre told to. don't care about what others say they'll argue for the sake of it

Thats not how "don't care" work.

If I want something to do I tell them theyre wrong and report them.

Remove the "I tell them theyre wrong" part and you will be ok

Talking trash to other people in a videogame isn't supposed to be a personal thing nobody truely gets offended

I am not offended by someone trashtalking me. That doesn't mean I would like to play with that person again. So I will quietly report him after the game. And if he keeps flaming other players in other games, he will get banned/chat banned and won't be able to flame, which is just what is supposed to happen.

açid2 votes

reporting a person isn't telling them they are wrong? most players dont quit after being banned which doesnt stop them from being "toxic" they just take a break from ranked from grinding and become less "toxic" as an effect

Posui Gart4 votes

If a fucking permaban can't stop someone flaming, then whatever you typed to him in chat can't either.

açid1 votes

what if I say something positive? What if thats all that theres room for?

Baka Red2 votes

If a polite line or three doesn't work (and they usually don't), your only choice is to ignore the troll one way or the other. The easiest way is to mute him. After the match report him and hope that IFS deals with it. Now, since you have responded to the trolls with negativity and insults, IFS has punished you. That is because you have been negative and thrown insults, because you could not keep your cool. That is unfortunate, but that is how things go here.

In case you start a third account, you would do well to study IFS FAQ and learn this simple rule; if someone annoys you in league, mute him, don't talk to/with/about him, and report him after the match - still not talking to/with/about him. Also, don't be negative in the chat. Following these guilines your account will be safe and the bad person will hopefully be punished some day in future. Oh, and you have to play to win and never troll too, to keep your account safe.

On the other hand; chat can be safely used to talk about tactics, and it can be used for morale boosting.

açid1 votes

Cool but how does reporting a player solve the problem when the player can just come back? Also riot has never tried completely removing chat from a "toxic" player only muting said player. I believe the communities view of "toxic" players only makes them more "toxic" as everyones always trying to blame someone else

Baka Red1 votes

Well, it isn't much of a consolation (especially since it just happened to you) but they do lose the time and (potentially) money invested in the suspended account. They do lose the skins, icons and such too. Granted, they can get those back, but if they keep on trolling, they will lose them again. Try not to lose the third account, if you ever create one.

açid2 votes

Only 0.006% of players are "toxic" enough to result in a permaban. Riot's own statistic.

That means 99.994% of players are not "toxic"

p3tm4ster2 votes

Those statistics are a straight up lie. And a cursory glance of the threads about being banned will tell you that.

CharDeeMcDenniz2 votes

the boards here are the vocal minority

p3tm4ster1 votes

No, they actually aren't. Since they are on the main site of the game they are the vocal majority.

CharDeeMcDenniz2 votes

how? are you seriously saying that the majority of ALL league players come to bitch on the forums?

that's simply not the case, which makes all of us here, the minority in this context

açid3 votes

Only the ones that lose $350 due to "cyberbullying"

CharDeeMcDenniz2 votes

wtf are you talking about...make sense man

açid2 votes

What doesnt make sense to you?

CharDeeMcDenniz3 votes

basically everything you post

but besides that, everyone here is the minority, even those of us not bitching and moaning about deserved punishments. if you added up every single person who posts on the boards, positively or negatively, it would be a grain of sand of the beach. Hence we are the minority, all of us here

açid2 votes

Wtf are you talking about... make sense man

CharDeeMcDenniz2 votes

ok so you dont want a discussion, just trolling me. got it

see ya*[slayer-jinx-catface]*

açid2 votes

You werent discussing anything you we're just saying I was wrong without any actual argument I legit just said exactly what you said and you practically called yourself a troll. That emote is cringe

adv3rick1 votes

if you read the article above, he lost 350$ and is putting himself in the minority of people who are on this forum because he has a reason to discuss his situation

p3tm4ster1 votes

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If you think there's another place where most league players bitch than you're mistaken. Rito tries to have people believe that their reddit forums are where the majority goes, which is complete BS. 90% of the league players don't even know about their reddit. The only go on where it's the most obvious place to go, which is the forum on the main site(aka here).

CharDeeMcDenniz3 votes

{quoted}

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If you think there's another place where most league players bitch

im saying that the majority of league players dont bitch on any forum put all the active accounts from here and reddit and you'll still only have a tiny fraction of the overall playerbase.

p3tm4ster1 votes

Right but that's still the majority of the VOCAL player base, the ones who aren't vocal at all really don't count. Because there's no way to quantify that group.

adv3rick1 votes

dude you can't get a percentage at all without taking in the total amount of people. IE the VOCAL and NON VOCAL that's how majorities and percentages work, you take the whole amount of people and divide it into categories. please learn what a certain subject is before you talk about it.

Baka Red2 votes

No, it doesn't mean that. It means that (however inaccurate that statistic might be) that most people aren't toxic enough to get punished the four times it takes to receive permanent suspension. Many will learn from the first time they get punished, and only a few are so toxic, that they don't get the final warning: 14-day suspension tells that the next punishment will be the permanent suspension.

açid1 votes

so youre saying all players are on a scale from "toxic" to "nontoxic" making all players "toxic" and not "toxic" at the same time? or that you only get banned once if youre this "toxic" but if youre this "toxic" you get permabanned. Cause I'm pretty sure if players arent choosing to be toxic theyre just having bad games/days and have nothing to "learn".

Baka Red2 votes

Please check your math and don't put words in my mouth. Thank you. Have a nice life.

adv3rick1 votes

he didn't put words in your mouth dude you wrote it clearly and he is expanding on it.

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

Or simply not toxic enough to be permabanned.

Kei1433 votes

So why do you need to defend yourself when people are calling for reports?

All a report does is flag the system to review the game (in the category it was reported in), if the review found nothing wrong, the report will be tossed out.

Knowing that reports alone won't punish your account, there really is nothing needed to be defended. So just brush off those that are accusing you wrongfully. Infact, them threatening to report you counts as harassment against them if they kept that up, they would get punished.

açid1 votes

because sometimes you wanna say something back and talk shit in a videogame instead of getting someone banned and trying to feel good about it when you couldve just muted the person

Kei1432 votes

So ... you want to counter attack instead. Call it a counter attack then, not a defense.

With Riot's current rules, you can occasionally flame others. Just don't use the zero tolerance and don't do it often.

açid2 votes

its not about how often you do it its about how often you play the game because you can flame 1% of games and get banned simply for that 1% if its only 100 games youve played you probably wont get banned for flaming in one game however if youve played 1000 games and were toxic in 10 of them you're definitely getting banned. If you play 10,000 games and were toxic in 100 of them youre getting permabanned

Kei1431 votes

Half correct.

If the toxicity all happened within recent intervals (i.e high consistency), of course you'll get punished.

Using your example of 1% of games of 10,000 games. If you were toxic in 100 games of the most recent 200 games, that's 50% recent toxicity. Those 9,800 clean games help you not get punished in the first 100 games, but it's not going to save you after that.

On the contrary, if you were toxic in just 1 every 100 games, then your recent toxicity is still 1% and won't get punished.

Personal observation from these boards, if you it 20% recent toxicity, then you'll probably get punished. But don't hold me to account there. It's just a guess.

açid1 votes

But bans still stack up over time

Kei1431 votes

Punishment tiers also decrease over games played.

It takes an average player around 3 months of playtime to drop a punishment tier.

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