Riot: AFK's and Trolls Will Be Dealt With When?

Woodakoodashooda··15 votes·1,932 views

I don't want to be told, both teams have an equal chance of getting one.

I honestly don't because I am so far fed up with rage quitters and trolls appearing on EITHER team.

These players do NOT belong in league and we do NOT deserve LP loss over it.

Implement an actual system that rewards fair play already (not some honor system that gives us nothing more than champ shards and a pretty flower in loading) and stop with the excuses as to why this is okay!

This is not okay!

And it's been like this since League's launch and little has been done about it.

50 Comments

NocturnalSheild5 votes

Actually both teams dont have an equal chance.

The enemy team has a 20% MORE chance to have an afker or feeder as long as you yourself isnt one.

FredtheFruchtbar2 votes

You're missing his point. It doesn't matter if it was 80%, it's that it's happening (and has for a long time) and nothing appears to be done about it.

NocturnalSheild2 votes

And what should be done? Should riot start breeding psychic girls so they can build a minority report style future telling machine?

Because i see no other reason how riot could of known that person was going to afk or troll.

The have leaver buster AND people get banned for trolling.

So what more do you want. These are just people. Not divine beings.

General Esdeath 1 votes

I say hire a live team of people, similar to tribunal, but have them work at Riot and review cases of reports where red flags show up.

twchris135791 votes

Um... they already have that? Do you understand how many games of league are played every single day? The fact that it's free means anyone can make a new account. Even if every troll was banned the first game they did it, it won't make any impact on your experience since those people will just keep showing back up.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Actually it does for ranked, and if they have a team I think they need new/more people.

twchris135791 votes

It doesn't matter, you can buy accounts for a couple bucks from websites. And look at how many games happen every hour. Literally thousands, there is no way for riot to employ enough people to manually review every single game within minutes of it ending to prevent the trolls from getting into more games, it would bankrupt them.

The system is as good as it can be given the size and scale of this game. Trolls are punished rather quickly, the last inter I reported got banned after 2 more games and I got the notice saying thanks for the report, so the system works. I'm a support main so not only do I deal with all the same issues you raise but I have to deal with not being able to hard carry a game, so if my laners fail its almost certainly over no matter how mechanically good I am, a Karma with no AP items just can't 1v5 at 15 minutes when our inhib is falling.

The solution to reducing the trolling is to stop giving them attention. They thrive off it. Stop watching their streams, stop arguing with them on the forums, stop watching youtube videos of people who troll to get a reaction. If there isn't money or fame to be made by trolling alot of it will stop.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Account sellers and bots is another problem, easy to solve but Riot doesn't want to.

And I know how to deal with them, I just wish my mid laner would stop bitching about him in all chat and play [zombie-nunu-bummed]

twchris135791 votes

How is it easy to solve? Tell me how you would solve it right now and I'll tell you how they can get around your proposed solution.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Simple one, if someone is reported for botting by multiple people you put a CAPTCHA up for them after each game for a set period.

Here's an even simpler one. If someone is in a bots game, and they don't speak, just afk down the lane to auto the turret, dying again and again, it's a bot.

As for the newer bots that afk jungle, same thing. I'm positive 100% of these bot reports are real but Riot wants to play it safe and allow this to keep happening.

Best solution is to do what Korea does and link accounts to a SSN.

twchris135791 votes

So many flaws idk where to begin.

  1. A human input requirement isn't something that would detect bots, the bots simply would not start a game until the code is entered, which takes all of 5 seconds, sure it may slow down the speed that the accounts get leveled to 30 but it won't solve the problem at all, remember at $2 to $5 per account there is alot of money to be made and people will still easily make a full time job out of.
  2. Even a CAPTCHA isn't bot proof, I've already seen several programs that can scan the image presented and pick out the required key to pass the check which is why they keep evolving from numbers to questions to pick all the images that contain "X" in order to keep the bots at bay, but hackers will keep finding ways to circumvent security.
  3. You can't punish a pre level 30 player for farming in the jungle because there are legit players who don't know better. Remember there isn't a meta enforced by riot and a pre 30 player may be trying jungle paths or figuring out what camps do. You can't just assume that because someone is running around in the jungle that they are a bot, that's insane. My first few games trying jungle back when I started, I don't think I ganked even 1 time because I had no idea what I was doing.
  4. You can't link accounts to a SSN in America as SSN are kept secret by the government. Riot would have no way of knowing if a SSN you enter is legit or not, or if it even belongs to you without violating several privacy laws. Hell even the White House can't see peoples SSN who voted in the 2016 election. Identity theft is a major problem here in America, I was a victim of it myself. Giving a private company access to peoples SSNs for non tax related purposes is opening a pandoras box. Even as someone who runs a company myself I have no way of verifying someones SSN other than by seeing the actual card. I have to submit tax information to the IRS for my payroll assuming the card and number they gave me are legit and belong to them.

So yea, nothing you propose would solve anything. America isn't Korea and you can't compare the 2 and say "well Korea does this" and expect America to be able to do the same thing.

General Esdeath 1 votes
  1. Assuming they leave it on and don't look at it, this slows the process. You could take it to another step and have the account deleted if it isn't entered in X amount of time but I think that would hurt people who don't speak English.

  2. Hackers? Do you mean programmers? No solution is a 100% fix but if it fixes even 10% of the problem it's a good solution.

  3. But a human player wouldn't act the way they do. If you watch them, they have times where they just stand there doing nothing, times where they bug out (pathing usually gets interrupted), etc. Riot could also release a tutorial explaining how to jungle and avoid that problem.

  4. True.

twchris135791 votes

...

Deleting someones account for not entering a CAPTCHA within X time? Seriously... And when you walk away from your computer as it prompts you to enter it and forget about it, only to return later to see your account is gone, how would you react?

You are making assumptions here about the amount of benefit this will have, if bots produce 1000 level 30 accounts a day which would be easily doable through multiple VPNs all running on 1 server blade than reducing that by 10% still results in 900 accounts a day, thats still nearly 30,000 accounts a month. And looking at the number of accounts available for sale on those sites I'm sure I'm lowballing this number.

There is no way to actually have someone watch everyones actions in a game where they got reported. There are, according to the wiki, 27 million players on average daily, assuming those players only play 1 single game each that is 2.7 million matches per day. With only 86,400 seconds in a day that means there would need to be 31.25 matches reviewed every second in order to keep up with the demand. So lets assume Riot employes 500 people to just review matches, those 500 people would need to work 24/7 and would only have 16 seconds to review a match, barely enough time to read the report itself. 500 people being paid an average of $40,000 a year is 20 million dollars just to review games to combat trolls and bots. I think I've made the point here that there is no way for Riot to actually have a live person check every single report every single time, it would require too many people, cost too much money, and make a non noticeable difference once the bots are improved to make more random actions like humans. Remember a human will make random moves, bots should be predictable and methodical in their moves, I remember back in the days of Ragnarok online like 12 years ago that bots were already being able to bypass auto detection filters by using RNG to determine mouse inputs and pathing, and that was 12 freaking years ago.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Who walks away for an hour? And leaves League open?

twchris135791 votes

I have several times, ranked que times can take from 2-5 minutes during the night when I play and there have been a few times where I've got up and walked away to go get food or do something else and forgot I was in que. I know I'm not the only one whos done that.

Ahri Baka1 votes

You're talking as if having afk in the enemy team is ok how am I gonna enjoy a free win if the enemy has afk ?

GripaAviara1 votes

Actually, that's a statistical bullshit with 20%, and also, it's 25% if you want to take that path.

But statistically, the real chance is almost equal, because if you look at the data, the chance of 5 game troll is nigh 0 this means, 99.9% prob that at least 1 of the enemy players is not a troll

NocturnalSheild1 votes

What? It doesnt matter if all 5 players are troll???

Its simple math.

4 people are capable of trolling on your team. 5 people are capable of trolling on the enemy team.

Simple laws of averages states you will gain more benefit from trolling then you will loss.

Sort of like house advatages in casinos are only 8-20% based on the game and the still ALWAYS come out ahead.

GripaAviara1 votes

That's not how statistic work, what you describe is somewhat unrelated and also casino house advantages are a totally different thing.

You can start with this very facile explained video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R13BD8qKeTg

To put it simply the "25% chance of getting a troll is bigger on an opposite team" is only valid if every game would have a troll, which is not true

NocturnalSheild1 votes

False again.

Your over complicating this shit.

Theres more enemys therfore more chances to get a troll. Period. End of story.

I cant break it down any simpler than that.

Ignore the 20% 25% shit.

4 people vs 5 people <<<<<Focus on that... jesh.

GripaAviara2 votes

Amazing how people discard science.

False that what, did you study statistics? What are your counter arguments. That I over complicate that shiet? That's math, it's not always 2+2 and statistic is way complicated than 2+2

4 people vs 5 people - that's not how it works, stop spreading misinformation if you have 0 clues what you're talking about.

NocturnalSheild1 votes

Science?

Theres no science in this.

If you have 2 teams of 5.

1 team has a player with a 0% chance to troll (the player) and 4 players with a random unknown chance to troll.

The enemy team has 5 players with a random unknown chance to troll.

Its basically like haveing 1 person flip 4 coins and another person flipping 5 coins

The person with 5 coins will eventually land more heads then the person with 4 coins simply due to more variables existing.

I mean i cant explain it any simpler.

Why don't YOU explain to me how a person with 4 variables has a higher chance of a certain outcome then a person with 5 variables.

Plastic 5 ADC1 votes

200iq

NocturnalSheild1 votes

Lol.

I love how not a single diessenter has shown how 4 is more than 5.

SparklingLama2 votes

Riot doesn't care. More money they make the shittier their game gets.

KVbqbFsC8e2 votes

Can you tell me why we deserve to lose LP when our entire team feeds? AFKing is no different. It happens.

FredtheFruchtbar1 votes

I feel ya. Just had an afk troll ruin my last game.

Vathriel1 votes

While I do think there are things riot could do to improve this situation, such as handling LP losses for rage quitters better, and only punishing those in queue with the rage quitter (as opposed to granting the entire team a loss).

There are a couple things to think about:

  1. A repeat offence must happen. As you don't always know whether or not somebody simply had an urgent life issue, if their power cut out, etc.
  2. Riot is already doing a fairly good job of punishing repeat offenders. Just remember to report people who are obviously toxic afk's.
  3. And while getting an AFK is an equal chance for both teams, I'd just like to also point out that at least in my matches it's rather rare to get an AFK. (Yes I do know that anecdotal evidence is not the most reliable, it'd be cool to get some statistics from riot on the actual AFK #'s)
  4. It is possible to win a 4v5 in some situations, it's rare but I and many others have done it before so it's not a reason to give up.
  5. Blaming riot without presenting possible solutions doesn't make them anymore likely to take you serious.
  6. Riot knows these players don't belong on league, that's why they ban repeat offenders.

I know I'm not of a high MMR, but as somebody who does have experience with both being a developer, and talking to other developers, I understand that riot is already investigating what they can do. They do investigate players, they do investigate reports for repeat offenders. A player won't always get punished for doing something once for the simple reason that it's very difficult to prove whether or not they had an actual issue, not all AFKers are toxic.

It's very difficult to just "tell" if somebody is an AFKer when they sign up. They may get to level 30 without every afking, they may get through 2000 matches without an afk. The thing is I bet most of us have AFKed at least once, whether it was for some sort of problem or because for some reason we were tilted off the face of the earth. Banning one time offenders is not a good business strategy unless it's something incredibly more serious involving high toxicity. I know I myself have been reported by my team when a blizzard took out my power in the middle of a match.

Anyways that's just my two cents, and I hope we can have a civil discussion about how to better punish repeat offenders and be more forgiving to the teams of the AFKers.

I think some things that would potentially work, but may not for reasons I have not seen are:

-Only punishing the AFKer and their partner(s) if they have any. -Like you said, not punishing the team just because they got an AFKer, but to go beyond that I think it's important to only refund LP if the offender is a repeat offender, this way we avoid the problem of a teammate saying "This match was bad, and I fed, I'm going to AFK so the rest of you don't take an LP hit." -Offering better rewards to those who haven't AFKd all year. -Offering small rewards/incentives to those who were repeat AFKers but have reformed over some timespan. (taking them away if they offend again.)

Obviously there are problems with the things I mentioned, obviously it's not perfect. But unless we have a real discussion about this it's unlikely that anything of use will be done.

Thanks for maybe listening! [slayer-jinx-catface]

T4underbolt2 votes

They dont ban trolls. I was checking that for years. I even got the same inter zilean ruining my provisional game in s6 like he did in s5 and to many other players as well. Didnt get banned obviously. So thousand of other players, nicknames i saved. Riot just focus on toxicity regarding chat insults because this game is aimed at kids and casuals. Kids dont like being called names but they intend to troll the moment they dont like something so riot cant ban them for this since its their biggest revenue source.

Oxyrotten1 votes

{quoted}

They dont ban trolls. I was checking that for years. I even got the same inter zilean ruining my provisional game in s6 like he did in s5 and to many other players as well. Didnt get banned obviously. So thousand of other players, nicknames i saved. Riot just focus on toxicity regarding chat insults because this game is aimed at kids and casuals. Kids dont like being called names but they intend to troll the moment they dont like something so riot cant ban them for this since its their biggest revenue source.

I don't even think they ban toxic players. I have gotten like 2 responses from the ban system, and I am sure I have report thousands of players.

Case in point I had a super toxic 3 man premade a couple nights ago. Like super toxic, target banning our own team, non-stop toxic hate spam (almost wonder if it wasn't scripted because it just did not stop the entire game), all of them int'ed, refused to vote, troll picks, afk'ing, dc'ing, just everything they could do to tilt me (and another guy I wonder if was in the premade, he wasn't toxic but fed just as hard).

I reported them, and checked their history, just full of 0/10 20min games etc. So I have to imagine they were being reported multiple times, but nope just checked again and still playing.

T4underbolt1 votes

You can't do anything about that sadly. Riot doesnt care. Its past that point where even if veteran players and pros get upset and give up on the game, casuals, kids and new or bad players will keep the money coming to their pockets. So don't expect any changes that will balance the game or punish trolls for ruining games. In latest ask riot or whatever it was, they even laughed off the problems that players are constantly talking about in boards. That's because casuals and new players are more likely to believe that the company that runs the game is right, so if they make a joke of problems that veteran players are talking about, they will think this is not a problem. That's also a lot of riot fanboys come from lately. You can see them defend every single broken thing in this game.

NocturnalSheild1 votes

Aint no casuals on the forums let alone an ask riot...

Oxyrotten1 votes

{quoted}

You can't do anything about that sadly. Riot doesnt care. Its past that point where even if veteran players and pros get upset and give up on the game, casuals, kids and new or bad players will keep the money coming to their pockets. So don't expect any changes that will balance the game or punish trolls for ruining games. In latest ask riot or whatever it was, they even laughed off the problems that players are constantly talking about in boards. That's because casuals and new players are more likely to believe that the company that runs the game is right, so if they make a joke of problems that veteran players are talking about, they will think this is not a problem. That's also a lot of riot fanboys come from lately. You can see them defend every single broken thing in this game.

I know, it's been going downhill for years, I even drew some fancy conclusions as to why based on a timeline, but the fangirls tell me it's pointless speculation since it can never be proven. I am just waiting for the day I log in to see "Banned for abusing the reporting system". That will be my last day.

NocturnalSheild1 votes

Feeding isnt punished unless its common and massive.

Because trust me i play with actual bronze 5 players and they can go 0/15 actually trying as hard as they can.

Unless your sayung we should ban just for being bad?

Oxyrotten1 votes

{quoted}

Feeding isnt punished unless its common and massive.

Because trust me i play with actual bronze 5 players and they can go 0/15 actually trying as hard as they can.

Unless your sayung we should ban just for being bad?

I have no problem with feeding, I have a problem with intentional feeding. There is a very big difference I think your missing. We all feed from time to time, and we all die repeatedly from time to time (there's another big difference between feeding and dying fyi). That's fine and all, I hate it when someone only looks at kda without any context. I don't even care that much about being bad (low elo that is), I don't play competitively that much anymore.

But anyway back to the subject at hand (assemble suit and tie, and professional voice): WhAt?!? DId yOu eVEn rEaD WhaT I wRoTE?!?

Seriously though, what are you replying to?

NocturnalSheild1 votes

Lol how petty are you that you save the name of every person whos ever slighted you in leauge.

Also i call bullshit and say you dont do that.

Plus they ban trolls all the time.

Its just you people want them banned for a single game going 0/3.

T4underbolt1 votes

No not for a single 0/3. ITs not petty. Its the way to evaluate that system is not working. The guy dies once, blames supports, says i go troll and proceeds to steal our jungler camps and try to invade enemy jungle dying over and over. building 6 tears and sht. You see his match history and its every 2 games that he does shit like this. And thats only one example of trolls who keep playing without punishment.

NocturnalSheild1 votes

He could of gotten a day ban.

Im sorry bro you just dont know. I know for a fact they ban trolls. Because ive been playing this game since season 1.

GripaAviara1 votes

They banned trolls. When the tribunal was working and a year after when they tried some new system

T4underbolt1 votes

a day ban :D. Even if (and its a lie since they mostly played every game) what is a day ban? It should be insta 14 day bans and if it happens one more time after that insta perma. And as GripaViara said. Trolls were banned when tribunal was present. Now it either never happens or it does after 32423443 games sometimes.

NocturnalSheild1 votes

A 14 fucking day ban for a single troll game.

Are you insane?

Everyone has a bad day. To punish that hard for it is insane.

You have literally 0 empathy.

T4underbolt2 votes

Oh yeah. I have a bad day. Let me barge in into a shop and destroy few products and then just pay 50$ fine only. If you have bad day go to the gym. Dont ruin 4 people game because you have anger managment problems and need to act like 4 years old who didnt get a candy.

NocturnalSheild1 votes

Except making you "lose" 30 minutes of your time has literally nothing to do with actual property damage.

Need i remind you LEAUGE OF LEGENDS IS A GAMEEEEEE ITS A GAAAAMMMMMEEEEEEEE people play games to blow off steam.

They should be punished for trolling. They SHOULD NOT be punished for an off day.

I think riot punishes at 5% total games trolls.

Which means for someone with 5000 games played like me id have to troll for 250 games before i get punished (unless its extremely easy to tell im trolling then it will be 50 games or so)

I think a 5% error rate is fair.

T4underbolt1 votes

If its game only go troll in normals..have your day off in normals. Some people want to climb and have competitive game decided not by if you are trolling like piece of crap but by who is actually better. If its just a game there is no problem to go troll in normals for you. Gamemode shouldnt matter. Its not fair margin btw. Its game ruined for 2250 players by one player. But why do i expect logic from someone who support trolling and is probably one of them as well.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Trolling =/= a bad game

trolling is "I'm gonna int because I don't like you playing Yasuo" which deserves no empathy. Should I feel empathy for a guy who vandalizes my dads car just because my dad likes a different football team?

General Esdeath 1 votes

a 1 day ban isn't a thing.

Oxyrotten1 votes

{quoted}

Lol how petty are you that you save the name of every person whos ever slighted you in leauge.

Also i call bullshit and say you dont do that.

Plus they ban trolls all the time.

Its just you people want them banned for a single game going 0/3.

For what it's worth I call bs too, the number of people I have reported is certainly in the thousands and I would never bother saving their names, even if it was some sort of import database.

General Esdeath 1 votes

"how petty can you be to test Riot's system with your own research LOL"

Please tell me you're trolling us here. He's doing exactly what I do and many other researchers when they want to know if the system is working.

Xeronator1 votes

if u cant beat the trolls... might as well join then :)

EL HAMSTERO1 votes

when all the toxic people have been banned there will be much fewer reports. then it will be easy to pick out the trolls and riot can defeat them and finally have a clean game.

riot is working the long game

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