An idea for handling abusive players

ComeOnAndSlamJam·4/7/2016, 3:29:02 PM·1 votes·587 views

If we can get an API endpoint for blocking trolls/feeders/abusive users, and have Riot make it impossible to be matched with someone you've blocked, users can develop a crowdsourced block list.

I'd keep the project in Git, it'd be open source and transparent. It'd likely take the form of a web app.

Hit the app, login to it, and suddenly you've removed thousands of trolls from your pool of possible matches.

The best part for Riot would be that community maintainership of it means they don't have to do anything other than provide an API endpoint to handle blocking.

10 Comments

MasterSomething4/7/2016, 3:38:03 PM3 votes

The main reason this is not implemented is because of Challenger. No, I'm not joking. There are so few people in Challenger, that if everyone blocked each other the queue would take ages and pair them with Diamond players instead of other Challengers.

Zombiemaster4/7/2016, 5:16:20 PM3 votes

This is something that Riot is very likely to never do due to one big reason: matchmaking. I know someone mentioned how it would affect Challenger, but this is different.

Let's say that you have 30 people on your block list and you cannot be matched with these 30 people, so matchmaking tries to find someone that isn't one of these 30 people. Easy enough, right? Well, it finds one person, and let's say that this person also has 30 people on their block list that they can't be matched with. So now matchmaking has to find someone that isn't on your block list as well as not being on the second person's block list, and with every new person matchmaking finds, that person's block list adds to the number of players that cannot be added to your team. Not to mention that matchmaking has to do this for two teams while also trying to keep the teams somewhat balanced skill wise. This would result in significantly longer queue times as well a decent chance of unbalanced matches.

Sure, with only a few people on your block list, this may not seem like a big deal, and to be honest it probably wouldn't be. However, the system very likely wouldn't accomplish what you would want it to; you would need a high number of people on your block list to do that, and that's when things start becoming a big problem for matchmaking.

entitledplayer4/7/2016, 4:30:11 PM2 votes

{quoted}

If we can get an API endpoint for blocking trolls/feeders/abusive users, and have Riot make it impossible to be matched with someone you've blocked, users can develop a crowdsourced block list.

I'd keep the project in Git, it'd be open source and transparent. It'd likely take the form of a web app.

Hit the app, login to it, and suddenly you've removed thousands of trolls from your pool of possible matches.

This will not work for several reasons.

First one is the obvious matchmaking problem -- That's self-explanatory.

Secondly, there's the apparent issue of thinking a player who doesn't play with another player based on blocking that player somehow gets to have functional control over the other in a way that affects the rate and accuracy of the system matching them with a player of the same ELo just because they've blocked one of the involved people;

Just because you and a player you disagree with have a altercation does not constitute that you have to and need to mute/block them -- If you're capable of reasoning, you'll figure out if the thing you had a problem over was actually worth the time of going to this extra effort, and fi either of you were overreacting and focused on the wrong details in question.

Which shorthand is as simple as saying:

Just because you and Little Bilby Badass don't like each other doesn't mean both of you cannot act mature put aside your differences and learn to communicate and cooperate to play the game; This is especially true in any case where either side believes any intellectual disagreement somehow evaluates out to having to mute a person because one or more of you are salty and don't get over your own ego.

Thirdly, muting a played doesn't automatically establish guilt onto any player -- This is true of the report function, thus it rings to for the block/mute function:

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=unobngtr,comment-id=00000000000000010001000200000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-04-05T18:00:32.861+0000)

(..)

A report flags a game for review. They do not establish guilt. The game is then reviewed for harassment, feeding, etc. This is why 'troll reporting' or 'gang reporting' do not work. False or inaccurate reports are thrown out.

You cannot ever be punished for saying nothing .. unless of course it's for something gameplay related like feeding, afking or cheating. But, you can never be punished for offensive language, hate speech or verbal abuse if you said nothing.

Thus, just because YOU muted/blocked them and think they are a troll doesn't affirm in the positive something you don't have the manpower to prove -- since it's more than likely your action was done in a place of annoyance that was instigated by you both, or solely you, because it was easier to just lay blame elsewhere.

The best part for Riot would be that community maintainership of it means they don't have to do anything other than provide an API endpoint to handle blocking.

Just as proven with the Tribunal system of the past, the playerbase cannot be trusted as a crowd-sourced pool of information without setting the rule and standards of what each and every player defines as negative behavior markers for a algorithm to define as " trolling, flaming, harassment" and every other marker for a system of this nature.

And considering that you can go to the PB&M frontpage and see thread after thread of players throwing shade back and forth, if not being directly antagonistic -- We as the playerbase at large cannot be trusted to do that, because we're too fickle and hang loose with morals -- Thus it'd be on Riot to define these algorithm markers.

But to classify any part of the playerbase as 'confirmed trolls/flamers' defeats the ultimate purpose of the punishment system, as well as reformation -- That a player is more than, and can be more than just their mistakes in the eyes of the community.

A system like this that you're proposing is nothing more than an automatic scarlet letter that once placed makes it open season on anyone and every player given one -- Since those who are on the list must be confirmed trolls because if they weren't, they wouldn't be on the list, right?

^This is the logical reasoning of something that would institute more excessive discrimination against those users for no other reason than because an overtly entitled player who believe they should get the ability to not have to be more mature and learn how to communicate wouldn't have to play with that one person whom they reported because they think/believe they're a troll, when they have no justification or place to pass judgement past personal reason in the heat of the moment.

It would never work, and I for one would vehemently demand it be removed on base principle that it would do more harm and the logical ends of no feasible good.

Honestly, this idea is a Lotus-Eater: Something that tells them everything is okay and fine, because the "problem" ones aren't there -- despite the fact that your definition of 'problem players' are radically different from that of Riot Games as a company as of the employees whose job it is to be bipartisan and impartial to all, especially the toxic playerbase who'd refuse to make thee effort to reform since the Scarlet Letter would make it futile;

Because a system like this would do nothing but give them no hope that they will forever be judged because some entitled player thought that a mana-dependant jungler MUST give middle blue because they demanded it, despite the fact that they are dead and behind;
Or a ADC who kept getting himself killed using this to get away from that support who literally warned them 4 times in 2 minutes that they were being camped and to stay under turret, after getting full vision of bottom lane to fully confirm for a fact that 4 people were camping bottom for a 4v2 turret diveplay.

I literally could go on with my examples and point, but the basepoint and answer I'm presenting for my opinion is simple:

No, because this system isn't a system that's conducive of a positive mental attitude and environment, and is a way for players to get around the human experience of learning to be mature and communicate with players by being anti-social and putting anyone that they disagree with and think less of on a living document that serves no other purpose than being a shitlist.