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Anyone else noticing this trend?

Surefire23··7 votes·1,544 views

I have read countless comments and posts about bans/restrictions/trolls/griefers/inters/flamers etc, and one piece of advice seems to continually pop up as the #1 tip for avoiding punishment in this game; do not chat, ever.

Is this really the direction RIOT wants this game to move towards? Communication between teammates is essential to victory, and that makes sense as it is a team-oriented game. So how does the advice of "/muteall if you want to climb" help create better players, games, and a community overall? I realize the advent of the ping system greatly reduces the need for actual verbal communication between strangers, but the concept of not verbally communicating at all being the actual best piece of advice to avoiding punishment in a team games seems ridiculous to me. And please don't give me the argument of "oh well if you give struggling players advice in a kind and positive manner you will be okay" because I have proven that to be false more often than not. Giving any advice trying to be as friendly as possible will, about 8 times out of 10, lead to that struggling player getting upset, feeling criticized, consequently resent you for it and then report you. If they have friends queued with them you can most likely bet they are gonna report you too, and knowing the IFS system it will flag you as having made criticisms and deem the report valid.

I have played LoL since beta, received each and every honorable/sportsmanlike player reward, summoner icon, ribbon, etc. Climbed from honor 2 to honor 5 in about 8 weeks during s7. Here I am in s8 sitting at dishonorable because I constantly get flamed and then reported over saying things like "plz try not to feed" or "your champ pick is weak in that matchup". Obviously these small reports are not enough on their own, but coupled with the occasional "silver player" comment I make when extremely frustrated after a string of losing teams or when someone is flaming me to an inhuman degree (all caps flame, all game long. it happens) and you can be that is enough to keep me below honor 2 INDEFINITELY due to this magnificent honor system RIOT has developed.

Also P.S. RIOT, one of your "did you know" tips before game is horribly misleading. It states something along the lines of "competitive BS'ing is fine, but hate speech is not". Can you please define this so called acceptable "competitive BS'ing" and provide me with an example so that I may engage in such forms of banter without being validly reportable?

23 Comments

AeroWaffle8 votes

The advice, "do not use chat" as the singular way to avoid bans comes from people who want to spread the false message that the system will ban for anything.

If you can't use chat responsibly, sure, don't use chat. As the adage goes, "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all". But people are perfectly capable of using the chat without insulting other players.

laugh0Rcry2 votes

Advice for starts. Second, you're partially correct in the sense that talking about anything that is not hateful and is irrelevant from game likely won't get you banned. However, realistically speaking this would also imply that it isn't anything worth communicating in the first place.

In address to the rest of your reply, I'm glad you brought up the term "false message". People give that "do not use chat" advice and make that claim because it is true in the confines that i outlined above in this reply.

AeroWaffle5 votes

Thx for pointing out a misspelling, but I had already corrected it far before you posted.

And I didn't say talking about things that irrelevant from the game. I said that people are perfectly capable of using chat without insulting other players. Tactical discussions falls in that category as well.

laugh0Rcry2 votes

So I understood what you said. Moving forward what I and other enlightened players are trying to get across is, that the "tactical discussions" that you mentioned almost unfailingly can be interpreted as criticism even if the criticism isn't explicitly stated or meant at all. This alone can result in restriction with enough reports. Just because you don't get reported and penalized in every scenario that these "tactical discussions" doesn't mean that the potential isn't there every time nor the inevitable instance where it does get reported.

AeroWaffle6 votes

Moving forward what I and other enlightened players are trying to get across is, that the "tactical discussions" that you mentioned almost unfailingly can be interpreted as criticism even if the criticism isn't explicitly stated or meant at all.

Really?

You believe that chat such as, "Should we do baron?", "Can I swap lanes, he's stacking MR/Armor.", "Otw to gank after I get red, try to clear wards"

will get someone banned?

There is plenty of chat that many people believe are "tactical" but are actually irrelevant at best and semi-insulting. Things like, "Stop dying", "Our jungler never ganks", "you're 1/8/3", "can't you hit a hook?", and so on.

Pointing out negative things that the player is already aware of does not help and just come across as insulting.

laugh0Rcry2 votes

Literal: "should we do baron?" Potential interpretation that could lead to restrict: (There is a problem with your objective priority / jungle control.)

Literal: "Can i swap lanes, he's stacking MR/Armor." Potential interpretation that could lead to restrict: ( I don't think anyone else can carry the game, so it will end if I specifically fall behind.)

Literal: "Otw to gank after I get red, try to clear wards" Potential interpretation that could lead to restrict: (You're being outperformed in your match up/lane; You have poor vision control. )

**Will **someone get banned? Your guess is as good as mine. COULD they get banned? Undoubtedly.

Depending on who you are matching with these comments can also cost you the game.

Thousands of games experience with the vision comment alone.

AeroWaffle4 votes

In no way, shape, or form would these lead to a restrict. The interpretations that you gave are not only completely unreasonable but also unrealistic.

It's also irrelevant.

Even if all other players somehow interpret (if you can call it that) "Otw to gank after I get red, try to clear wards" as "You're being outperformed in your match up/lane; You have poor vision control. " and report them for it the player will still not be punished.

Cynikul3 votes

{quoted}

Literal: "should we do baron?" Potential interpretation that could lead to restrict: (There is a problem with your objective priority / jungle control.)

Literal: "Can i swap lanes, he's stacking MR/Armor." Potential interpretation that could lead to restrict: ( I don't think anyone else can carry the game, so it will end if I specifically fall behind.)

Literal: "Otw to gank after I get red, try to clear wards" Potential interpretation that could lead to restrict: (You're being outperformed in your match up/lane; You have poor vision control. )

**Will **someone get banned? Your guess is as good as mine. COULD they get banned? Undoubtedly.

Depending on who you are matching with these comments can also cost you the game.

Thousands of games experience with the vision comment alone.

Yikes...

Ok so this person went the exact opposite extreme, holy hell.

Quote I like in this scenario is, "Take the advice you need, leave the rest". Which basically boils down to one point he had or the idea of it; don't disrespect or be toxic, treat others the way you'd want to be treated. 9/10 times if you take a passive tone and use words like "we should" or refer to yourself, your teamates will usually follow and respect it. I think the advice to "mute" as an answer to some of the people that post in here is DIRECTLY for them and not the other 95% of the player base because its quite clear that the few toxic players don't have the restraint to "chat responsibly".

To think that - that advice is targeted at everyone is absurd- it's just for those that literally cannot help themselves.

BeatzBoyFTW3 votes

I've read thousands of punished threads' chat logs, none of them are as sensitive as you described. It's ridiculous.

Surefire232 votes

{quoted}

So I understood what you said. Moving forward what I and other enlightened players are trying to get across is, that the "tactical discussions" that you mentioned almost unfailingly can be interpreted as criticism even if the criticism isn't explicitly stated or meant at all. This alone can result in restriction with enough reports. Just because you don't get reported and penalized in every scenario that these "tactical discussions" doesn't mean that the potential isn't there every time nor the inevitable instance where it does get reported.

THIS is the essence of my arguement. AeroWaffle if you think people won't report you for anything, you're wrong more often than not. I have been reported for saying literally nothing the entire game and using only pings (not spam) to communicate because someone said I was refusing to communicate with the team. Also been reported for saying "glhf" at the start of a game and "gg" at the end of the game. Do I think these reports amounted directly to a punishment? No. Do I think these reports negatively impacted my succeptibility to future reports? Yes. People will report you for anything if they feel like it, and enough of those kinds of people in a row can easily land you a restriction at the very least.

Chermorg7 votes

No, they can't. You can be reported by all 9 other players in every single game you play but if you do not misbehave you will not be punished.

Punishments are based on behavior. Not on reports. If you are not behaving poorly, you won't get punished. None of the things aero mentioned would result in a punishment no matter how you spin it.

You do not get punished for nothing and anything. You get punished for behaving negatively or abusively.

Surefire232 votes

{quoted}

No, they can't. You can be reported by all 9 other players in every single game you play but if you do not misbehave you will not be punished.

Punishments are based on behavior. Not on reports. If you are not behaving poorly, you won't get punished. None of the things aero mentioned would result in a punishment no matter how you spin it.

You do not get punished for nothing and anything. You get punished for behaving negatively or abusively.

You can claim that it won't result in a punishment all you want, but I guarantee the IFS will slow your honor gain to a grinding halt for being reported so much by so many players. Isn't that a form of punishment in and of itself? Also would you please contact your superiors and form a suitable response to my question concerning "competitive BS'ing". RIOT explicity stated that "competitive BS'ing is fine", but I can find no clear definitions or examples from RIOT of what consititutes "competitive BS'ing" or how it is in any way different from being toxic. Please clarify or rectify this statement.

AeroWaffle5 votes

but I guarantee the IFS will slow your honor gain to a grinding halt for being reported so much by so many players.

Under what basis do you make this guarantee?

CooL Ice Tea2 votes

Source: Dude trust me.

Cynikul3 votes

{quoted}

You can claim that it won't result in a punishment all you want, but I guarantee the IFS will slow your honor gain to a grinding halt for being reported so much by so many players. Isn't that a form of punishment in and of itself? Also would you please contact your superiors and form a suitable response to my question concerning "competitive BS'ing". RIOT explicity stated that "competitive BS'ing is fine", but I can find no clear definitions or examples from RIOT of what consititutes "competitive BS'ing" or how it is in any way different from being toxic. Please clarify or rectify this statement.

Why is this getting downvoted? I think thats a reasonable assertion and honestly a good clarifying question.

Umbral Regent1 votes

The "Competitive BS'ing" question may be a good one, since quite a lot of people seem to not know the line between BM and bad behavior, but the other part he has (about reports affecting Honor regardless of punishment) is just plain friggin' wrong.

Being falsely reported will not affect Honor progress. Your Honor progress will only slow if you are actually breaking the rules.

It's completely unreasonable to assume that excessive reports = actual honor damage. If that were the case, what would the point in Honor be, if it were so easily thrown away by people reporting, forget whether or not they're accurate or if you're actually doing anything.

As for the Competitive BS'ing thing, here's what I know:

When Riot says "competitive BS'ing is okay", they mean light, playful jabs at the enemy team and light trash talk. Stuff like taunting/teasing enemies for narrowly missing their ult or using a bunch of ults on you (bonus points if you survive), sarcastically thanking them for leashing Dragon/Baron when you steal it out from under them, etc.

But, because there are some people out there who don't know the difference between competitive BS'ing and being an asshole, it's unsteady ground to try and tread. Whenever I BM my enemies, I always ask myself in my head - "Is this overdoing it? Is this more of an insult than a jab? Can I phrase it any better?"

If a snarky jab can survive three seconds of those mental re-evaluations, then it might be allowed. And I emphasize might.

The only other thing that I can think of that'd play into BM'ing is frequency - you really don't want to make more than two of the same jab. Hell, you don't even want to make more than one of the same jab. It's okay to tease the Ezreal about narrowly missing his Trueshot Barrage once or twice, but six or seven times is definitely overboard.

Toxicate133 votes

Riot doesn't know what tilt and anger are. They think their game is perfect and no one tilts or gets mad at their game. And if anyone does, they get banned.

laugh0Rcry3 votes

Quite literally you have to not use comms in this game to avoid restrictions. It's beyond pathetic. You can also type until your fingers fall off, Riot hasn't cared for quite a while now and aren't likely to start until it affects the profits.

Imperial Pandaa3 votes

Really? Cause I use comms all the time and don't get punished.

MUSHROOM MIDGET3 votes

it is absolutely nuts how easy it is to get punished for chat in this game

Rank1YasuoBanner2 votes

The suggestion to /mutall may not necessarily be the best option, but it is certainly the easiest and most efficient considering the low amount of effort it takes. I agree that this being the case is a problem, but it is not necessarily Riot's fault and I honestly don't think there's anything they can do about it. The core of the problem is that the majority of that playerbase is excessively touchy. You simply cannot say anything that could possibly be taken as a suggestion that somebody did something that wasn't good. If your support gets back to lane before you and tries to 1v2 and dies, you cannot say "Hey let's just play safe and try to farm" because there is a very good chance he is going to get upset by that comment. It also doesn't help that usually instead of that the adc will say "wow gg useless feeding support ff at 15 open mid plz next" but the fact remains that most players will react poorly even if something is worded politely and constructively. This is why I say it is not necessarily Riot's fault. The general attitude of the playerbase is very bad. This has led to Riot being excessively strict where chat is concerned. I also don't really think that this is because they want to put a stranglehold on chat, but rather because otherwise it is difficult to know where to draw the line. But that's really just a guess. Either way it has been getting steadily worse over the years.

Icantcreateasumm1 votes

interesting idea

Surefire231 votes

Still no response on the "competitive BS'ing" question. Clarification please RIOT, I feel like it really shouldn't be all that hard to explain this statement you explicitly made. So far all the interpretations assume a great deal of speculation/personal opinion so I would really like someone connected to RIOT to give an official explanantion please. This is a statement made by RIOT directly, being shown in loading screens every day. Clarify. Please.

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