Idea for "toxic" players who are Ineligible to Receive Loot

serypwn··8 votes·1,748 views

So, I was recently chat restricted and after completing my restricted games I found out that I'm ineligible to receive awards. Now, while I feel the system is a bit too punishing I've been thinking about some ways for players that have gotten restrictions to not feel such a sting due to their past restrictions, I'm interested to hear about what you guys had in mind as well.

I was thinking some form of a "pool" in which the Chests and Key Fragments that you earned in game can get stored, that way you can still earn them but you don't have access to them until Riot has decided you have "reformed". This way those players who have been restricted previously now have a more tangible goal to work towards. One could argue that the privilege of getting the opportunity to earn the loot should be a large enough goal, and while I certainly think it is, some may find that even if they "reform" to earn loot again it may not even be worth it because it's only the opportunity to get something. Having those key fragments and chests waiting for you, but just beyond your reach would be a much better "carrot on a stick" for players that need an extra nudge to work towards being reformed.

I also think some kind of visual representation for the player to check their progress would work well, as players would be able to see that they're making process that Riot also sees, and not some vague idea of what being "reformed" takes. I think the honors system could have a great place in this, maybe setting some set value of honors needed (from players not on your friend's list, of course) for a re-evaluation of your behavior, or simply removing the restriction to Hextech entirely.

Anyway, I'm interested to read your thoughts on the matter, and hopefully we'll see more toxic players coming here and telling us how they were reformed and giving tips to those (such as myself) that still need to change some aspects of our behavior.

23 Comments

RedTao3 votes

I dont see them making a pool for you happening in the future. However, I do agree there needs to be some sort of progress report at perhaps 1 week intervals. Just something that lets you know you're going in the right way and maybe have a couple of snippits as what you did right and what you did wrong. This way it's not just up to you to figure out what's considered good behavior, but there's something giving you positive feed back so that it's not just some vague thing that even here in boards cant figure out.

Telephone Booth1 votes

{quoted}

I dont see them making a pool for you happening in the future. However, I do agree there needs to be some sort of progress report at perhaps 1 week intervals. Just something that lets you know you're going in the right way and maybe have a couple of snippits as what you did right and what you did wrong. This way it's not just up to you to figure out what's considered good behavior, but there's something giving you positive feed back so that it's not just some vague thing that even here in boards cant figure out.

I disagree entirely. Sorry, I'm not just trying to be an ass or Mr contrarian, it's just Wtf is wrong with people that they need to their hand held and shown how they've been a good boy and what they've done that's naughty. Being a decent human being is not riots responsibility. How do people not know right from wrong? What's the matter with parents today that kids don't know this stuff on their own?! God this riot world is sad. Common sense is rare here.

Troll for Trump3 votes

I have been untoxic for 3 months, and it's tedious to keep getting rubbed in for a chat restriction I got in December. Haven't even got a verb abuse warning.

Even worse is the black and white view of the Boards.

RedTao3 votes

The issue isn't so much common sense, it's just that the issue regarding toxicity was already solved years ago. People would rather put up with a toxic player for 40-60 minutes than press that button. Even worse, the players complaining about toxic players are those people who WILLINGLY subject themselves to the toxicity. The only reason to punish those toxic people is to cater to the lazy masochists who'd rather listen to said "toxic" players than press the mute button. Granted it's common sense not to be an a**, there are times where it's understandable. I have my own issue where I was banned for 2 weeks despite breaking nothing in the summoners code/code of conduct. Yet it was considered negative behavior. So I have my doubts that Riots version of "Being good" is the same as normal society's.

Unstoppable Monk3 votes

{quoted}

The issue isn't so much common sense, it's just that the issue regarding toxicity was already solved years ago. People would rather put up with a toxic player for 40-60 minutes than press that button. Even worse, the players complaining about toxic players are those people who WILLINGLY subject themselves to the toxicity. The only reason to punish those toxic people is to cater to the lazy masochists who'd rather listen to said "toxic" players than press the mute button. Granted it's common sense not to be an a**, there are times where it's understandable. I have my own issue where I was banned for 2 weeks despite breaking nothing in the summoners code/code of conduct. Yet it was considered negative behavior. So I have my doubts that Riots version of "Being good" is the same as normal society's.

Right, because people don't mute and report. I pity you for your perception of normal society.

You deserved the 2 week penalty. You're using masochists in a derogatory manner. Masochists are people too. (So are support players, coincidentally.)

RedTao4 votes

My issue isn't the people who mute. It's the people who DONT mute that are the issue. Toxic players are bad enough on their own, but when it's just in chat all you have to do is mute. It's not hard. Why is it so much harder to press the mute button than it is to press the report button?

Perhaps my view on normal society is different from yours. I was in the military community all my life so I dont know much of any other parts of society. I also see on the news that apperantly lots of the population of people in Baltimore are raiding, pillaging and looting stores in their own city. Is this "Normal" behavior to expect from the people who live there? Of course not. I've been to Germany, Japan and Korea in my first 18 years of being alive. All places, while culturally different, have the same basic values as to what is normal in regards to common sense. They all know that if you see st and you dont want it on you, you move to the side. Think of the st as "Toxicity" and the action of you moving to the side as using the mute button.

Now you, good sir, are one of these people I've been talking about in the tickets I've been sending Riot. You're one of those people who, rather than see the statement as it is, find put your own personal feeling into it and interpret it as something you should be offended by.

When I call people who seem to feel like they need to subject themselves to Negative/Toxic/Abusive behavior and DONT use the tools they have to REMOVE said behavior they dont WANT to have in the game, what better word is there to call them? You can't call them Martyrs because they're not suffering and dying for their beliefs. Other than that, there are no other words that come as close to describing them than being masochists. Now, that being said, like in any word, there are different ways in using them. Much like when %%% is used to describe the gay community, it has also been used to describe a bundle of sticks or someone/something annoying. When the black community use THEIR word, it can mean a close friend or a dumb person. Even in the military you can call a marine a jar-head and it would have more than one meaning. But we're subjected to being cussed out by more than our fair share of people in our line of work so it's nothing out of the ordinary to us (We also have to deal with some civilians as well. Those who think we're murderers, heartless monsters, sold our souls to the government. The list continues depending on who's talking) But do we call those people who don't know anything about us other than what they stereotype us?... Well, not to their face but even then we do what we can to keep face despite their ignorance.

When I use the word masochist, it's used for someone who subjects themselves to something that's not good for the AND doesn't get something from it other than getting upset. IF you're a legit masochist and you do your things for you amusement, kudos to you. That's your thing, you're not hurting anyone who's not interested (I hope. Not savvy with this kind of community) The people I'm addressing are the ones who WILLINGLY subjects themselves to comments (regardless if it's actually offensive to them or not) and CHOOSE to be offended for the duration of the game WITHOUT using the tools provided by Riot to REMOVE said toxicity from their sight. THOSE people traditionaly AGGREVATE the situation by VOLUNTARILY CHOOSING to keep the toxic speech continuing. Because, as common sense dictates, it takes TWO PEOPLE to have any sort of dialogue.

With that said I'm sorry if you, or someone you know, are a masochist in the traditional way. I don't know if I've ever met one in my life but I can tell you what the polls said in the military times about our opinion on the gay community, race and the different religions in the service. I don't care if you are. Now, the Buddhist side I've been working on follows up with I do care about YOU. Because I can understand you if you have that kind of hobby/lifestyle. It's not hard when you look at it AS IT IS instead of WHAT IT MIGHT BE. I could get into a rant about this but this reply is going to be long enough.

If someone is being toxic and you choose not to mute the person, instead choosing to keep the toxic conversation going, you have no rihgt to report the person when you yourself did nothing with the tools given to you to remove yourself from this influence. Especially so if you chose to talk to the person just to keep them talking. If you think in my logs I was toxic, my question to that is "What did they do to remove themselves from my 'toxicity'"? Did they mute me? No, otherwise they would have stopped talking to me. Did they keep talking to me just to keep getting the same answers I was already giving? Yes they did. 'Toxic' players are not the biggest issue. The people who encourage the toxic players while saying they dont want toxic players in the game are not only hypocrits, but are ENABLING the toxic players to keep up with their 'toxicity'.

You, however, need to stop reading between the lines (There's only a space there, no hidden messages) and just look at things as they are. You too focused on finding things to get offended over that you chose not to see the point I was trying to make.

Advanced Wolf1 votes

I wish everyone could see the world through eyes like yours. Well said.

RedTao1 votes

It's honestly not that hard. It took me a year to get to this point of view things like this but I had found someone to help me get there. If people wanted to see things from this point of view, just look up Hyon Gak Sunim on youtube and watch his talk about the Bloodstream Sutra. The entire talk (8 parts that take about 4 hours to complete) is just talking about seeing things as they are and the true nature of people. It took me a few goes to wrap my head around certain part but when it clicked, I had to wonder how silly I was when the reason I couldn't understand it was because I was over thinking it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmru_nIRf9Q&list=PL1x_N_tzeL8JX2e6hvNS3bv5n6w75E9CC

While Telephone Booth says people shouldn't be held by the hand to know better, Hyon Gak touches this subject that maybe only 1/million people can achieve this on their own. Everyone else just needs a teacher who has a taste of their true nature to show them. People who just recite quotes that other people say are not qualified to teach, because these people do not have voices of their own. (Sadly I see this in most of the Behavioral specialists Riot employs. They quote what was already written for them but have no voices of their own. Also why I think most of them are bots)

serypwn1 votes

Beautifully put.

Powder Toastable1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Telephone Booth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8TFMeoVE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-03-21T23:51:55.951+0000)

I disagree entirely. Sorry, I'm not just trying to be an ass or Mr contrarian, it's just Wtf is wrong with people that they need to their hand held and shown how they've been a good boy and what they've done that's naughty. Being a decent human being is not riots responsibility. How do people not know right from wrong? What's the matter with parents today that kids don't know this stuff on their own?! God this riot world is sad. Common sense is rare here.

The problem is ...I personally have not reformed at all. And personally when I call out feeders in ranked for being trash it's the damn truth and they need to hear it. More people should understand that you cannot go into ranked and feed and not expect back lash from the people who have not only mastered their champs bus also are + KDA ... I mean common. It's totally unfair to go into a game where you have an intention to win and get a "first time" or a "lag" or anything where they simply are not helping anyone.

Then they have the audacity to begin flaming my general chat which I use to say things like "Dragon in 30. prep ward" or "push top hard lee sin is bot 3v2 bot lane push top and mid" .... they say things like wahh wahh wahh it's anything but my fault.

So I say "sorry I do not speak 0/11 etc " ... no man, just plain no.

Borkahn2 votes

While I do agree that some should not be allowed to get ahold of loot for huge bans, those who had a restriction in previous season but are relatively clean since then or those who only had a one time chat restriction I don't think should be punished or at least not severely.

FirstManDying2 votes

Honestly, a punishment for toxic players could easily be "instead of someone in your party receiving an S, Someone in your party now much achieve an S+.

Mama Soraka2 votes

I'm not sure I agree that merely delaying the rewards is as an effective deterrent as completely locking people out. If the influx of "Banned from hextech loot" threads is anything to measure the effectiveness of the current system by, I'd say its working pretty well to help people realize what they've done is wrong and that wrong behaviors have consequences. Personally I feel like merely delaying the reward would result in situations where a summoner feels they can ignore punishments because they'll just get the loot eventually, right?

That said, I'm more than willing to see the pool idea implemented and be proven incorrect. Anything that increases the rate of reform or lowers toxicity in general is fine, even if I don't agree with it 100%.

serypwn2 votes

I personally don't see the current system as effective, because the threads on this topic that I read have people coming saying that they know what they did was wrong, and that they know they deserved the in-game chat restriction, but the ineligiblity for rewards is simply another punishment slapped on afterwards. People come here discouraged and upset with the system, and occasionally others will come to belittle those who will occasionally allow anger to overcome reason.

As far as people thinking they will get it eventually, while that can happen the length of "eventually" is determined by said player, not a pre-determined date, so if they get into that mind sent of eventually they will get it without any real effort to change, they will find that "eventually" will never come.

And thank you for being so open minded, I read your thread on the subject and found it very well written, I just think that whatever Riot is doing as far as punishment for toxicity needs to be fleshed out more, and that players need to be informed before they get slammed with ineligiblity, not after.

Mama Soraka1 votes

I agree that clarity on the issue has been poor, at best. Most people that aren't me or really into the PB&M boards didn't know that all summoners have that rating within the system and it made people think they were being punished twice when in reality they are only now beginning to see the consequences of being in poor standing.

I think it can only get better as new systems are introduced to help people figure out where the are in the reform process, since that should alleviate some of the frustration from the people that are actually willing to reform for reformation's sake, not just some shiny free trinkets.

Skias1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mauve Thunder,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8TFMeoVE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-03-22T03:07:05.624+0000)

I'm not sure I agree that merely delaying the rewards is as an effective deterrent as completely locking people out. If the influx of "Banned from hextech loot" threads is anything to measure the effectiveness of the current system by, I'd say its working pretty well to help people realize what they've done is wrong and that wrong behaviors have consequences. Personally I feel like merely delaying the reward would result in situations where a summoner feels they can ignore punishments because they'll just get the loot eventually, right?

That said, I'm more than willing to see the pool idea implemented and be proven incorrect. Anything that increases the rate of reform or lowers toxicity in general is fine, even if I don't agree with it 100%.

So, in your opinion, negative reinforced messages spamming players not currently under restriction is helping and not an irritant?

It seems to me from your posts that you had some grand idea of Riots intentions here instead of them simply not having a system in place to handle this issue.

Mama Soraka1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mauve Thunder,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8TFMeoVE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-03-22T18:32:49.774+0000)

I agree that clarity on the issue has been poor, at best. Most people that aren't me or really into the PB&M boards didn't know that all summoners have that rating within the system and it made people think they were being punished twice when in reality they are only now beginning to see the consequences of being in poor standing.

I think it can only get better as new systems are introduced to help people figure out where the are in the reform process, since that should alleviate some of the frustration from the people that are actually willing to reform for reformation's sake, not just some shiny free trinkets.

As stated in the FAQ for the Hextech launch the idea was always to lock out summoners that had been punished until they were reformed. Riot just did an extremely poor job of conveying when reformation has been achieved and what standards reformation is judged by, which has created this situation where people that are locked out don't know what to do to lift that lock.

FirstManDying1 votes

For me i let my little brother play. After a week of being gone i see that my account has been chat restricted for 20 games. This is all and well and i easily play off the punishment, however a couple months later and i see the new "Hex tech" update, and in it consists of only pain weather i win or lose a game i get a message saying "You are unable to receive rewards due to past behavioral issues." Remember I already did my punishment months ago and have been a very honorable player sense then. I don't think this punishment should be permanent or I may have to create an alt account to remove the message from my chat.

DataLock1 votes

And thats another thing. Alot of people who have gotten this passive restriction would rather just make a brand new account and start from there than deal with the constant reminder of what riot thinks of them.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

By your logic, establishments choosing to not put shoes on barefooted people instead of people trying to enter without shoes are the problem. Surely if they just ignored the people with the stinky shitty feet there would be no problems. But here in RITOTOWN, 'MERICA ---if your toxicity stinks up the place, you get banned.

I hope that looking at this example makes sense of why people who are toxic aren't allowed to play the game while people who are offended by them are able to play.

Tsen1 votes

{quoted}

I also think some kind of visual representation for the player to check their progress would work well, as players would be able to see that they're making process that Riot also sees, and not some vague idea of what being "reformed" takes. I think the honors system could have a great place in this, maybe setting some set value of honors needed (from players not on your friend's list, of course) for a re-evaluation of your behavior, or simply removing the restriction to Hextech entirely.

This, atm it's like they lock you up in a cellar without light. Players are unaware of what's going to happen to them other than that creepy feeling of big bro watching you. At least with some form of notification they could see themselves moving in the right direction.

Love Bots1 votes

I agree with your Idea OP, but only for first time offender (chat restricted player) only. Those who got temp-banned or worse shouldn't get loot like before.

DataLock1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Love Bots,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8TFMeoVE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-03-23T17:05:38.735+0000)

I agree with your Idea OP, but only for first time offender (chat restricted player) only. Those who got temp-banned or worse shouldn't get loot like before.

Except that sort of punishment only reinforces negative behavior. If someone really is wanting to change, and is making every attempt to do so, but has to constantly struggle under the reminder of the sort of person they were, it can quickly upset them to the point where they begin a backwards slide into that behavior.

We should reward people who are trying to change, not make it that much harder for them to do so.

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