Give us a chance to get our accounts back

SnugglePuggle94·May 17, 2018·4 votes·2,565 views

I made a thread about a month ago, on why I felt the punishment system is too harsh, and trying to get Riot to incorporate another try at giving people a chance at earning their perma banned accounts back.

I don't want to delve into all of it again as it was a long post, so I'll leave it here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/apd4Tpc3-long-post-i-just-hope-someone-will-listen

Please Riot. Give us a chance again. I'll be your guinea pig, if you let me.

57 Comments

Umbral RegentMay 17, 201811 votes

There's no way Riot's going to introduce any method for permabanned players to try and recover their account. They've already tried something similar in the past, and it had an abysmally low success rate. 95% of the players Riot hand-picked and deemed "most likely to succeed" failed.

Beyond that, the permanent ban is supposed to be a punishment, and when someone gets a permaban, that's a sign that they genuinely didn't care about the rules, and Riot had to put their foot down. The point of the permaban is for Riot to get the message across that they will not tolerate people breaking the rules, and the consequence for doing so is appropriately harsh.

If Riot just allowed people to recover their accounts after a permanent ban, then the punishment would lose all of its impact and have no reason to exist in the first place. Why worry about losing your account when you can just play "nice guy" for a while and get it back?

The permanent ban is the absolute end of the road for an account. And, permanent means permanent. There's no way to get it back, and I don't see Riot implementing one in the near or far future, simply because of how easily such an option would be abused and how quickly toxic players would start ruining more games.

Besides, how many chances do you really need to understand that you should be following the rules? Riot feels like three minimum (or one at absolute minimum) works best. How many chances do you need? Four? Five? IMO, one chance is enough.

Shukr4nMay 17, 20182 votes

actually permaban is not a punishment.

permaban is the act of isolating and kicking a unwanted ~~player~~ guest from the community

Umbral RegentMay 17, 20183 votes

Those aren't mutually exclusive concepts. Kicking someone out can be (and in this case, is) a punishment.

So, the permaban is both the act of kicking someone out of the community, and a punishment.

Shukr4nMay 17, 20181 votes

well, maybe u are right, but to me punishment is something that improve you and add you some insight and experience

permaban avoid you. let you go. doesnt want to add you anything because lost interest in you.

ModThe DjinnMay 17, 20189 votes

{quoted}well, maybe u are right, but to me punishment is something that improve you and add you some insight and experience

I think you're conflating "punishment" (the act of a negative repercussion for doing something) with "opportunity to learn and/or grow." The two can be related, but are not necessarily related. In this case the early, non-permanent punishments provide an opportunity to reflect and change, but the final, permanent one is the punishment that says "well, you had your chances, and you learned nothing. Get out." At that point it's just a punishment.

Shukr4nMay 17, 20181 votes

well u go to jail for 1day/sojme years to reform.

u go in jail forever to be removed from society

ModThe DjinnMay 17, 20187 votes

{quoted}well u go to jail for 1day/sojme years to reform.

And the permanent ban is Riot's equivalent of the life sentence, yes. Because you've already been in League's equivalent of jail many times, and shown that it didn't help you turn things around.

Shukr4nMay 18, 20181 votes

Warlord RhinarkMay 18, 20181 votes

I think permaban is more akin to death sentence than life sentence.

SnugglePuggle94May 17, 20183 votes

Nope. Just nope.

There are always chances that people will reform, they just need to be given a chance to show it.

Umbral RegentMay 17, 20185 votes

...they just need to be given a chance to show it.

They are given a chance to show it. They're given a chance at the 10-game chat restriction, they're given a chance at the 25-game chat restriction, and they're given one last chance at the 14-day ban.

The Permaban is what comes when you waste all your chances to reform.

ModPrandineMay 17, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8EWlyP6v,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2018-05-17T20:56:45.600+0000)

They are given a chance to show it. They're given a chance at the 10-game chat restriction, they're given a chance at the 25-game chat restriction, and they're given one last chance at the 14-day ban.

The Permaban is what comes when you waste all your chances to reform.

To add onto this the line has to be drawn somewhere. If you keep giving people chance after chance after chance then they'll have no incentive to reform and change their behavior for the better. 3 chances should be more than enough to reform, and if it's not then that's their problem, not ours.

SnugglePuggle94May 17, 20183 votes

Those aren't enough chances at all. It's way too harsh of a system and needs reformed.** It IS your problem.**

ModPrandineMay 17, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Those aren't enough chances at all. It's way too harsh of a system and needs reformed.** It IS your problem.**

It's important to remember that people can get additional chances if they prove that they reformed and are able to get their account back in good standing. I failed to mention that partly because the 3 chances with the two chat restrictions and the 2-week ban are generally the standard amount of chances people get if they continue to act up. How many chances would be enough for you? And don't say "enough is never enough" or "infinite chances". To quote Grunkle Stan from Gravity Falls: "if you always give people what they want they'll walk all over you."

SnugglePuggle94May 17, 20183 votes

Just one more chance is enough for me. The amount it is now is not enough.

ModPrandineMay 17, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Just one more chance is enough for me. The amount it is now is not enough.

Let's just say for a moment that you do get an additional chance: what's to stop you from asking for more and more and more while still claiming that it's not enough? Honestly, and I mean no offense by this, but your entire argument sounds like one a little kid would make after getting their favorite toy taken away as punishment for blowing the multiple chances they were given to behave. How? Because it basically boils down to "well it's not enough chances for me, therefore the system is broken and flawed and needs to be changed."

Also for what it's worth Riot did try giving people more than at least 3 chances both back in the Tribunal and infinite chat restrictions days. For allot of people it simply wasn't enough and they continued to act up despite the many chances they got. The IFS was made with data and feedback from those two programs, and it was decided that at least 3 chances is the absolute minimum number one should get under normal circumstances (1 under extremes) before being removed from the game. Plus look at it this way: at least Riot gives people the chance to reform, as most other companies out there would just simply ban their players outright with no shot at redemption.

I understand that you feel it would take only one more chance for you to behave properly, but for Riot, based on the information and history they have with doing those kinds of things, it's just not a feasible risk that they're willing to take, hence why their policy is to not reduce or remove punishments that were not given out in error.

SnugglePuggle94May 17, 20182 votes

I was banned way after the Tribunal.

My argument is not childish. I will show them that I can be a success if they give me the chance.

AeroWaffleMay 17, 20184 votes

Why didn't you change on the punishments previous to the perma-ban?

SnugglePuggle94May 18, 20182 votes

Like I said in my previous post, I was going through a time where my head wasn't on straight, I was led by my anger more than anything and I didn't get better in time to realize what I had done.

AeroWaffleMay 18, 20184 votes

As others have stated, Riot tried to let people who are perma'ed prove that they turned a new leaf. It failed, miserably.

It is not worth the time and effort for the small fraction of a fraction of perma'ed players that would actually behave themselves once they get their account back.

The perma is given when Riot thinks it's unlikely that you'll ever behave yourself, since you continued to behave poorly even after several punishments.

Your current behavior keeps your current account safe, but has no influence on your previous account.

SnugglePuggle94May 18, 20182 votes

I didn't start playing til way after that happened.

And yes it is worth a try to do it again and see what can happen.

And their needs to be more chances before that perma.

AeroWaffleMay 18, 20184 votes

And yes it is worth a try to do it again and see what can happen.

No. It isn't. You've given zero reason for me to believe otherwise. While we have a previous attempt to show that it isn't worth the effort.

And their needs to be more chances before that perma.

No, there doesn't. If you don't realize your behavior is out of line on the 14-day punishment line and you continue to behave poorly I see no problem having the account taken away.

AeroWaffleMay 18, 20184 votes

Believe what you want but it's wrong.

Your opinions are not fact. Sorry.

AeroWaffleMay 18, 20185 votes

{quoted}

I know it's a fact.

Bye!

The only facts here is that you've been perma-banned previously for poor behavior and believe people should have yet another chance. You have yet to provide any sort of supporting argument of why it would be a good idea to give people yet another chance when faced with previous precedent that it would be a bad idea.

Riot has shot down the suggestion on multiple occasions and this will likely be no different. The community had its shot with the level 20 challenge and all it proved was that most of the people who are perma-banned will not behave themselves no matter what's at risk. They can't give you your one last chance without giving all accounts that "one last chance", and as previously indicated, was much more trouble than it was worth and had a horrible success rate.

SnugglePuggle94May 18, 20182 votes

Its all in my previous post I linked in the beginning, and yes my stuff is fact.

I came into the game after the level 20 challenge. I want my second chance and I believe there will be a better success rate. It's not that much trouble at all.

I'm done talking to you.

ModPrandineMay 17, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I was banned way after the Tribunal.

My argument is not childish. I will show them that I can be a success if they give me the chance.

You said and I quote:

{quoted}

Just one more chance is enough for me. The amount it is now is not enough.

You also said in a reply to someone else and I quote:

{quoted}

Nope, I haven't. It's not enough.

Before that you kept arguing how people didn't have enough chances to reform, then in your reply to me and someone else you said that it wasn't enough chances for you. This tells me and other people that you only think the system is broken because Riot didn't give you a bunch more chances to reform/ruin more games like you wanted to and you don't like it. It went from being about other people to instead just being about you, hence why I called your argument childish, because it's very similar if not exactly the same as one a child would make after getting their favorite toy taken away for frequent misbehavior. Also, if I'm being quite honest here, it's also the kind of argument I've made myself in my younger foolish years.

At the end of the day Riot is a business, and it's already a blessing that they give as many chances as they do now considering that this game is a free to play game. Why should they give a boatload of chances to or change the system based on the whims of a few disgruntled players who will most likely never be satisfied until they get everything handed to them on a silver platter and then some?

If you're reformed then great, you can prove that by never getting your second account permabanned for misbehavior. Other people have done it and so can you if you really put your mind to it and stop looking for excuses as to why Riot should treat you like a (dare I say it) special snowflake*.

*That is probably one of the only times that you will ever hear me refer to someone like that and one of the very few times that I feel that it's actually accurate.

SnugglePuggle94May 18, 20182 votes

Why do you think I'm making these threads? It's because the people and I didn't and don't have enough chances.

And I don't intentionally plan to ruin games. My argument isn't childish. Maybe you need to read my previous post that I linked because 1- my account was banned, that's what I'm fighting for, and 2- I'm also fighting for others that also can be a success. I poured my heart into that post. I am a human being. Don't call me childish or my argument childish again please.

I want my original account back, and I will keep fighting for it.

And wtf. Wow. That is...reporting you. That is offensive and inaccurate, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

ModPrandineMay 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Why do you think I'm making these threads? It's because the people and I didn't and don't have enough chances.

Again, let's just say for a moment that you do get an additional chance: what's to stop you from asking for more and more and more while still claiming that it's not enough if you do get punished again? Where do you even draw the line at in that case? Please answer both questions if you can.

And I don't intentionally plan to ruin games. My argument isn't childish. Maybe you need to read my previous post that I linked because 1- my account was banned, that's what I'm fighting for, and 2- I'm also fighting for others that also can be a success. I poured my heart into that post. I am a human being. Don't call me childish or my argument childish again please.

I understand that, but I also understand that many people in that thread also gave you legitimate answers and reasons as to why it's unfeasible, just as people have done here in this thread as well also. From the Tribunal FAQ:

Why can’t you give permanent banned players a second chance? You will receive a better player. Actually, this is the unfortunate problem. Allowing permanently banned players another chance is an extremely damaging cost. Do you know what the success rate of the Level 20 Challenge was? 5%. Do you know that for each person, they clearly outlined the toxic behaviors and had 1 on 1 conversations with the players to try to improve their behavior? These are players that were hand-picked by Player Support staff because they felt the pleas from these players were genuine. The success rate was still 5%.

Do you know how many games on average these players played? 100 games / month. When a permanently banned player fails to reform, they are creating miserable experiences for hundreds, maybe thousands of players a month. That's not a cheap cost or a low risk and we cannot consciously justify that, for the sake of the rest of our players.

You can disagree and argue all you want but the fact remains that it's just not gonna happen.

I want my original account back, and I will keep fighting for it.

Hate to break it to you but that will never happen. Punishments are never overturned unless they were applied in error, which you've already admitted in your other thread was deserved.

And wtf. Wow. That is...reporting you. That is offensive and inaccurate, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Perhaps, but I'd argue that's it's even more offensive and inaccurate to claim that your opinion is fact and that the opinions and facts of others are not simply because you disagree with them.

SnugglePuggle94May 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Again, let's just say for a moment that you do get an additional chance: what's to stop you from asking for more and more and more while still claiming that it's not enough if you do get punished again? Where do you even draw the line at in that case? Please answer both questions if you can.

Because I won't let that happen. I have controlled myself and my anger which was the problem last year.

I understand that, but I also understand that many people in that thread also gave you legitimate answers and reasons as to why it's unfeasible, just as people have done here in this thread as well also. From the Tribunal FAQ: Actually, this is the unfortunate problem. Allowing permanently banned players another chance is an extremely damaging cost. Do you know what the success rate of the Level 20 Challenge was? 5%. Do you know that for each person, they clearly outlined the toxic behaviors and had 1 on 1 conversations with the players to try to improve their behavior? These are players that were hand-picked by Player Support staff because they felt the pleas from these players were genuine. The success rate was still 5%.

I don't care. I didn't get the chance because that challenge ended way before I started playin. And it's worth the cost to try again to see what the rate can be again.

You can disagree and argue all you want but the fact remains that it's just not gonna happen.

LOL. You don't know that, but I know it will happen if I keep trying.

Hate to break it to you but that will never happen. Punishments are never overturned unless they were applied in error, which you've already admitted in your other thread was deserved.

There's always a chance for everything, and I am known for sticking up for what I want and going after it. My father can even agree with that.

Perhaps, but I'd argue that's it's even more offensive and inaccurate to claim that your opinion is fact and that the opinions and facts of others are not simply because you disagree with them.

That is not offensive one bit, and what I have said are facts. The other people are wrong, simple as that. And calling me a snowflake, is downright against the Board rules and is completely offensive and harassive, which I don't know how you haven't been caught or have it edited by now because I've reported it many times. I might just have to go to your superior then.

ModPrandineMay 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because I won't let that happen. I have controlled myself and my anger which was the problem last year.

If you've improved since then then great, but you're still not getting your account back. Get over it.

I don't care. I didn't get the chance because that challenge ended way before I started playin. And it's worth the cost to try again to see what the rate can be again.

Back then there were far less players than there are now, and trying to do it again in this day and age simply will not work. I think Kei143 summed it up best so go look at their post for more information.

LOL. You don't know that, but I know it will happen if I keep trying.

I'll tell you what you told me: You don't know that for sure.

There's always a chance for everything, and I am known for sticking up for what I want and going after it. My father can even agree with that.

For some things yes, but for things like this when you've already been given the information and reasonings as to why it won't work when it was already tried, no. Sometimes it's better to just cut your losses and move on if you know what I mean.

That is not offensive one bit, and what I have said are facts. The other people are wrong, simple as that. And calling me a snowflake, is downright against the Board rules and is completely offensive and harassive, which I don't know how you haven't been caught or have it edited by now because I've reported it many times. I might just have to go to your superior then.

By offensive I meant that it's offensive in the sense to just disregard other peoples comments and basically go "lalalalalala, I'm not listening" while also claiming that your opinions are facts just because you don't like or agree with them and the points that they're making in terms of having a discussion about something. You seem to think that you are always right and that everyone else is wrong but it doesn't work that way. That may not have been your intention but that's what your posts in this thread come off as, at least to me anyways. To quote Wizard101 Central user Magus Zeppers:

I try to be "civil". And I respect your opinion when stated in a reasonable fashion (not necessarily a rant screaming im gonna quit). Understand that its a two way street.

You yourself lashed out regarding "educated" responses. This in itself shows a lack of respect to others, simply because they did not agree with you.

K A R M A

As far as my post is concerned I apologize if it offended you but if you want to take it up with the other mods then please feel free to come to the Moderation Discord server or Discuss the Boards to talk about it.

SnugglePuggle94May 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

If you've improved since then then great, but you're still not getting your account back. Get over it.

No, I'm not getting over it.

Back then there were far less players than there are now, and trying to do it again in this day and age simply will not work. I think Kei143 summed it up best so go look at their post for more information.

I know it can work.

I'll tell you what you told me: You don't know that for sure.

Never know unless you try.

For some things yes, but for things like this when you've already been given the information and reasonings as to why it won't work when it was already tried, no. Sometimes it's better to just cut your losses and move on if you know what I mean.

Nope. It's always worth a try.

By offensive I meant that it's offensive in the sense to just disregard other peoples comments and basically go "lalalalalala, I'm not listening" while also claiming that your opinions are facts just because you don't like or agree with them and the points that they're making in terms of having a discussion about something. You seem to think that you are always right and that everyone else is wrong but it doesn't work that way. That may not have been your intention but that's what your posts in this thread come off as, at least to me anyways. To quote Wizard101 Central user Magus Zeppers:

I listened. I just know they are wrong, and nothing was offensive besides your comments. I don't think that way either. And hell no, I am nothing like what that user says.

Understand that its a two way street.

As far as my post is concerned I apologize if it offended you but if you want to take it up with the other mods then please feel free to come to the Moderation Discord server or Discuss the Boards to talk about it.

You verbally harassed me, downgraded my post and my comments, and continually attacked my comments with no real reason, just like Chermorg did on my other thread. I think you need to learn the concept of thinking before you speak.

I will not stand for this. If you continue doing any of these things, I will downvote, report, ignore you and just report all of it to your superior. GOOD BYE.

SnugglePuggle94May 17, 20183 votes

That's not enough, and no they haven't been given the chance to show it.

Umbral RegentMay 17, 20183 votes

It's plenty enough. You can argue all you want about how people should be given more chances, but at the end of the day, that'll be your opinion. Riot, who gets the final say on everything in the game, has decided their punishment system already. They've found that the current system (three punishments then a ban) is the best option that's currently available.

When you get a punishment (permaban notwithstanding), you are absolutely given a chance to show that you can reform. You're still allowed to play the game after serving out your sentence - and, in the first two punishment tiers, even during your sentence.

If the matches you play after (or, where applicable, during) your punishment aren't your chances to show your reform, then, I dunno what to say, 'cause at that point you're not even presenting rational arguments.

And how many chances does a person really need to learn to play by the rules? Most people don't even need one chance, and don't ever get so much as a chat restriction. Riot has decided that three chances is enough - if you fail to learn after increasingly severe punishments, then you're not going to learn period. And if you can't be bothered to play by the rules (after three separate punishments and warnings), then Riot can't be bothered to have you playing their game.

You can argue that the system is wrong, that people "need more chances", that people don't get to show their reform until you're blue in the face, but the system isn't going to change. Especially not the way permanent bans are handled.

SnugglePuggle94May 17, 20183 votes

Nope. All wrong.

Their system is not enough, and I will keep pushing for it to be changed.

Final statement, period.

Umbral RegentMay 17, 20183 votes

Suit yourself, it'll be a vainglory effort on your part. Since it's clear there's no more discussion to be had here, I'm going to leave with these two things:

If you come to the boards and just shut everyone out with your "nope, you're wrong, Riot's wrong, everyone's wrong, I'm right" mentality, you may as well not come to the boards at all. This is a place for discussions, and if you're not willing to have one, your posts are likely to get locked.
If you seriously believe Riot's punishment system is so flawed, so wrong, etc. - don't play their game. Like I said, they've already decided their rules, and it hasn't changed for years now, and it doesn't look like it's going to change anywhere in the near future. Don't like it? Don't play.

SnugglePuggle94May 17, 20183 votes

I already explained and counter argued these points in my previous post, I'm not repeating them again.
If you want to see a change, then work to have that happen, and I believe it will.

Shukr4nMay 17, 20189 votes

and what was difficult to comprehend last time about justified permaban are never lifted?

Hextech OwIMay 17, 20185 votes

The "chance" was the 14 days ban.

SnugglePuggle94May 17, 20182 votes

Nope, that's not enough.

Hextech OwIMay 18, 20183 votes

If a 2 week ban isn't enough for you to understand that you shouldn't be toxic, maybe the issue comes from you.

SnugglePuggle94May 18, 20182 votes

It's not enough for me or for anyone else. There needs to be more between the 2 week and the perma.

The issue is not from me.

KZ EngelMay 17, 20184 votes

you already get multiple chances

chat restrict: second chance 14day ban: third chance

there is no way to skip 14day without cheating. you've had a second chance.

SnugglePuggle94May 17, 20183 votes

Nope, I haven't. It's not enough.

XidphelMay 18, 20183 votes

You had 2 chat restricts and a 14-day ban. That's 3 chances to improve your behavior. Those were enough.

SnugglePuggle94May 18, 20181 votes

No. Those aren't enough chances at all.

XidphelMay 18, 20181 votes

Then work on your attitude before playing this game.

Verbally AbusingMay 17, 20183 votes

If you toxic you should be banned

MordiusMay 19, 20182 votes

Community is too toxic, no one will support this untill all the toxic people downvoting the thread are finally permabanned.

Just gotta wait it out. Eventually enough people will be permabanned or have quit the game. When Riot starts losing money, they will start caring, but sadly it will be too late for them by then.

NemeBroMay 22, 20182 votes

Remember lads, there is legitimately no argument against this thread now that Riot has proven to be hypocritical and given Tyler1 his account back. Permabans are permanent! ... unless you're a famous streamer LOL!