Boards›Player Behavior

The Reporting system is flawed and easily abusable (and frankly so are its advocates)

Father Cleric·8/7/2019, 5:28:54 PM·2 votes·1,727 views

I want to say...

If you're being hyper toxic... then yeah you should prolly get punished. Banned? Dunno. I think just removing your chat function is enough and even emotes but whatever. Point is...

The reporting system is (read title).

The system is based around a "no tolerance" policy (which we can look to our American school systems to how well that is working out but I digress). For those who don't know...

A zero tolerance policy says that no matter the context you are at fault for reacting at the same level as the aggressor. Really it's a lazy excuse to not do a job properly but eh... fine.

In theory this sounds okay.

But 3 things that are very clear that create a really bad system...

  1. You can get flagged for ANYTHING negative sounding. I shit you not I have had a pall of mine who has never ever been toxic to anyone no matter the level of flame he's received was given the 12(? I cant remember the first levels punishment) for simply telling someone "Dude youre being a real dick for no reason to our (teammate). Fucking stop." He was completely innocent in that. Simply sticking up for his teammate being flamed for having a bad game. But because of zero tolerance policy... context doesn't matter therefore his good intention was punished. (Im keeping him unnamed simply because I don't want him dragged into any of this.)

  2. The system only views YOUR chats... not both party. This is a major issue because again... as before... context doesn't matter for your punishment. All that matters is you saying a mean word therefore you should be punished. So if you have a duo just harassing the hell out of you and you react at all by simply saying "Fuck off." BOOM! Guilty. Doesn't matter what they said.

  3. This next part... I do NOT condone AT ALL! I had a buddy make a smurf... and every game... spam reported the entire games players. You'd think after the first like... 4 games the system would notice this behavior on his part... NOPE! For 2 weeks straight every hour there would be 1 or 2 messages about "hey buddy gj you got someone in trouble!" To quote InternetHistorian; "Armed with a shotgun and a blindfold to wildly take out anyone blindly"

Now... I want to go ahead and point out the advocates for this system being "perfectly fine" and some of the most popular arguments you will see on this forum.

Firstly... the biggest argument.

"Just mute them and you wont get banned for flaming back."

So there's a plethora of reasons why this is just... a bad excuse. There have been a handful of games where my teammate and I have started flaming each other over a huge miscommunication. However, 5 minutes later we were cool with each other and strategizing our next move to try and win the match. Yes there are plenty of people who continue to be toxic asshats for the majority of the game nonstop... those I do mute after 10 minutes.

But you're telling me...

  1. To cut off complete communication from a teammate simply because we are arguing
  2. Human beings are incapable of resolving disagreements after a flame war against each other
  3. and the biggest one...

That you're saying hey just mute them so you don't get banned but...

YOU LITERALLY ARE ADMITTING HEY I CAN MUTE THE TOXIC JERK TOO AND JUST MOVE ON.

"The system works fine. If you report them back and they get banned too then its fair."

What? What on earth does this mean. I don't go "Yeah I may have be bleeding out but as long as the cops arrest my killer then my deaths fair."

The people who make similar arguments to these or these exact arguments...

are the ones who abuse the system the most. They love this system. The love the power abuse and being the Riot Police. This is why most of these players stay on the forums more than the actual game. They probably arent that great. Get flamed (which sucks but it's a GAME not your local job where you can't... mute your boss). Then cry to Riot because they wont say "yeah that guys a dick but maybe I too should improve somehow" and just sit on the forums and downvote anything that hits close to their favorite power abuse system.

"This sounds like a personal attack."

Nah just like yelling "Attack on Titan sucks" at TokyoCon and seeing how many fangirls pop there heads up in anger.

Anyway... this'll prolly get mass downvoted or whatever. You know who you are. [sg-ezreal]

Also, Riot has proven they're more interested in banning wrong think than actual trolls that int and game balance.

13 Comments

Zlera8/7/2019, 5:40:58 PM6 votes

The report system makes sense. One report flags a game, if you didnt do anything wrong (I.e. you didnt call people idiots, or just be toxic in general) then nothing happens, but if you call someone a "fucking r%%%%%" then you get a punishment. Context DOESN'T matter. You shouldn't be toxic, riot implemented many ways to mute people(s), be it /mute all. Clicking the mute button. Turning off allied and all chat. Usually the system mutes after multiple instances of toxicity (unless you call someone like "fucking ni***r" or the like).

AeroWaffle8/7/2019, 5:59:23 PM3 votes

Nothing is forcing you to mute anyone. The report system doesn't hinge on whether or not you muted someone, only what your own behavior was.

Mute people that you no longer want to see chat from. If you think the possibility of relevant teamwork related chat is a greater need than muting someone being a jerk then don't mute. I know that's what I do.

I only mute when its become completely clear that the chance is minuscule the player will have something relevant to say in chat.

The suggestion of muting someone to avoid landing in hot-water with the system is given with the presumption that you don't have the self-control to prevent yourself from entering a flame war when insulted.

Hotarµ8/7/2019, 6:13:28 PM2 votes

If you're being hyper toxic... then yeah you should prolly get punished. Banned? Dunno. I think just removing your chat function is enough and even emotes but whatever. Point is...

Riot does not do permanent chat restrictions or exponentially escalating chat restrictions for a reason. To quote the article directly:

"The observed behavior of those which were banned was that they used what little chat they had in game to harass and berate others. In other cases they decided to feed or play against their own team in order to prove a point."

A zero tolerance policy says that no matter the context you are at fault for reacting at the same level as the aggressor. Really it's a lazy excuse to not do a job properly but eh... fine.

No, it's a way to discourage negative behavior across the board and reinforce the basic principle that "two wrongs don't make a right." In addition to that, it has the added bonus of saving Riot (or any employer/company for that matter) hundreds of thousands of hours of work and millions of dollars as they don't have to have a dedicated team sorting through every single punishment.

Also, obligatory note, contrary to what some people believe you can defend yourself. The second you start stooping to the aggressor's level or letting the conversation detract from your focus on the game, that's when "defending yourself" becomes punishable.

You can get flagged for ANYTHING negative sounding. I shit you not I have had a pall of mine who has never ever been toxic to anyone no matter the level of flame he's received was given the 12(? I cant remember the first levels punishment) for simply telling someone "Dude youre being a real dick for no reason to our (teammate). Fucking stop." He was completely innocent in that. Simply sticking up for his teammate being flamed for having a bad game. But because of zero tolerance policy... context doesn't matter therefore his good intention was punished. (Im keeping him unnamed simply because I don't want him dragged into any of this.)

If your friend was punished for that alone (which I partially doubt to be honest) it's because it's not his place to mediate. You don't have to tell someone to straighten up and adhere to the rules, not only is that ineffective in most situations but the way he did it was also nonconstructive and rude, meaning he's indirectly breaking the rules and increasing the likelihood that the aggressor won't listen to him.

Also again, obligatory mention, the phrase "zero-tolerance" is incorrect for this point because players receive multiple chances through the steps of the punishment ladder and when starting out it usually takes more than 1 game to receive your first punishment. "Zero-tolerance" is for hate speech and the like.

The system only views YOUR chats... not both party. This is a major issue because again... as before... context doesn't matter for your punishment. All that matters is you saying a mean word therefore you should be punished. So if you have a duo just harassing the hell out of you and you react at all by simply saying "Fuck off." BOOM! Guilty. Doesn't matter what they said.

Yes, because ultimately your chat is the only one that matters.

As mentioned above, it's not your place to mediate or control a situation and doing so in a negative way is pointless as it contradicts the very nature of a system that punishes negative behavior. Saying things like "shut the fuck up" or "fuck off" is still negative regardless of who it's aimed at or who escalated the situation first. In short, two wrongs don't make a right. You have other people in the game to be mindful of (since all 5 or 10 players will rarely be at each other's throats) and you're also increasing the likelihood of increased negativity from those players by adding fuel to the fire.

This next part... I do NOT condone AT ALL! I had a buddy make a smurf... and every game... spam reported the entire games players. You'd think after the first like... 4 games the system would notice this behavior on his part... NOPE! For 2 weeks straight every hour there would be 1 or 2 messages about "hey buddy gj you got someone in trouble!" To quote InternetHistorian; "Armed with a shotgun and a blindfold to wildly take out anyone blindly"

Invalid reports don't do anything. Your friend going into games and spamming reports is ultimately irrelevant because it takes one report to trigger a game for automatic, unbiased review. Filing a report against someone who has not broken the rules will not give them a chance to receive punishment. If those players were punished, they were breaking the rules, plain and simple.

"Just mute them and you wont get banned for flaming back." So there's a plethora of reasons why this is just... a bad excuse.

And... what exactly are those reasons?

You're providing one anecdotal piece of evidence where you reconciled with a teammate. That doesn't mean that abstaining from muting a player will always result in that conclusion, 70%+ of the time that player is going to continually flame regardless of how you act or what you say.

But you're telling me...

  1. To cut off complete communication from a teammate simply because we are arguing
  1. Human beings are incapable of resolving disagreements after a flame war against each other
  1. and the biggest one...

That you're saying hey just mute them so you don't get banned but...

YOU LITERALLY ARE ADMITTING HEY I CAN MUTE THE TOXIC JERK TOO AND JUST MOVE ON.

1 - Muting players is (in my opinion/anecdotal experience) generally done to stop someone from getting tilted or bothered by what a toxic player is saying to them.

2 - Players usually mute when they feel someone is "too far gone." When someone on my team is toxic, I usually drop a quick "Hey, we got this." or "Just try and focus on csing, give it a bit of time and we can outscale them" or something along those lines. If someone continues to flame afterwards, they're usually beyond the point of salvation and it's easier to just mute them and focus on the game.

3 - Yes, I can mute someone, but that doesn't mean I don't want them held accountable for what they say. A mute button is not an excuse for racism, homophobia, inciting self-harm, or just generally being an asshole.

"The system works fine. If you report them back and they get banned too then its fair." What? What on earth does this mean. I don't go "Yeah I may have be bleeding out but as long as the cops arrest my killer then my deaths fair."

It means two things.

1 - The player in this example doesn't understand that being reported and subsequently punished means they were in the wrong as well.

2 - That negativity across the board is unacceptable, and people who act like jerks are held accountable.

The people who make similar arguments to these or these exact arguments... are the ones who abuse the system the most. They love this system. The love the power abuse and being the Riot Police. This is why most of these players stay on the forums more than the actual game.

Nope. Not a white knight/SJW/snowflake/beta or whatever other buzzwords you want to use, I play the game and play it frequently. I've got well over 10k games played across the years that I've been active and League is (usually) my go-to game.

I just think that people who act like assholes should be held accountable. I think people who respond to flame with more flame aren't helping the situation and don't understand the basic principles of rules.

But yeah, I guess because I have a different opinion, that must mean I love "power abuse" and being the "Riot police."

Anyway... this'll prolly get mass downvoted or whatever. You know who you are.

Just for the record, I don't downvote posts. Although you will most definitely get downvoted because you've got plenty of incorrect statements and a derogatory attitude to anyone who has a different opinion.

Also, Riot has proven they're more interested in banning wrong think than actual trolls that int and game balance.

There is no inbetween. Both types of players are punished.

You can be reported by someone completely unrelated to the argument. At first that sounds fine but it's really stupid because this means that someone being offended by something you didn't even say to them... you can be punished for.

You're still disrupting someone's concentration, breaking the rules, and acting as annoyance to the other players in the match.

You may be having an A to B conversation, but there are 8 other players in the game to be mindful of and respectful to.

Sky Cardis8/7/2019, 5:56:49 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Father Cleric,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8BeuP8U7,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-08-07T17:28:54.210+0000)snipped for room

Sad fact about all this? This will do nothing to fix the issue. Not saying you are wrong about the flawed system, but this will just get ignored. Rven if this thread did get traction on the forums, Riot won't notice it.

People who run companies and corporations are really...REALLY stupid people. Usually because the ones that inherent it are in charge and not the original founder(s). Money speaks, and only money speaks. SO if they are still making money they don't care. And when things start tanking (game platforms as a major example) will just shut down the game and 'cut their losses'.

So in short: A threat of them losing a lot of money will get them to take action. Losing a lot of money will cause a shutdown. Making money means no actions will be taken.

And investors are a whoooole different variable but wanted to keep it...somewhat simple.

Find a way to scare them into fixing the problems, before the 'scare' becomes the 'problem'.

EvilDustMan8/7/2019, 7:40:35 PM1 votes

Nah just like yelling "Attack on Titan sucks" at TokyoCon and seeing how many fangirls pop there heads up in anger.

This isn't a personal attack, but it is kind of being a dick for no reason.

Father Cleric8/7/2019, 5:32:20 PM1 votes

Oh I want to also point out... You can be reported by someone completely unrelated to the argument. At first that sounds fine but it's really stupid because this means that someone being offended by something you didn't even say to them... you can be punished for. Anyway thats all I have to say.

Kei1438/7/2019, 8:39:39 PM1 votes

Ummm.... the zero tolerance part of the system only punishes people for hate speech, homophobia, racism and encouragement of self harm. Those shouldn't be said regardless of situations.

The rest of the chat punishments are based on consistency x severity. You can make the arguement that the reform card only showed 1 game of unacceptable behavior, but that's more of a clarity problem as the reform card only shows people 1-5 recent games as examples of unacceptable behavior, doesn't mean players were punished for 1 game alone.

It is true that the system only looks at the reported player's chat, as that is the only thing that will matter when deciding whether or not that player should be punished. As the system punishes based on consistency x severity, a player can say the exact same things as another player within a game, but one will get punished and the other may not because the two players have a different behavioral history. Now if both players have the exact same history, they will be punished at the same time.

Finally, did you know that low level games are a giant pool of toxicity? Those whom got banned start a new account, don't learn from their old ways and continue to be toxic there. Reporting a consistent toxic player will obviously get you consistent results. It's like going into a casino but having the conclusion that the world is filled with gamblers. Well duh, you are in an environment that fosters that behavior.

But from your title, it seems like that you aren't interested in learning about how the system works. But hey, if you ever change your mind and want to listen to us, give us a shout here and we'll be glad to respond.

twidledidle8/7/2019, 5:45:06 PM1 votes

Hey man, i got L9'd in D4 promos 2-2 needed one more win and this game was looking good, i was winning mid, jungle and bot we popping off, and jax top lane was getting fed, jax ended up triple killing us and we lost the game, i told the guy hes a r%%%%% for giving up when his team was doing well and he should uninstall the game because he is a complete moron and a dickhead. Perma Banned :)

Shou Ryuu VII8/7/2019, 5:48:22 PM1 votes

They all say, "just /muteall" but they have yet to add the feature to do this automatically every game.