Flame vs Opinion You Disagree With

ofart·6/11/2016, 12:42:24 PM·15 votes·2,044 views

I've gotten reported for telling my jungler that he should have helped me push after my laner was forced back from a gank (and I pinged to push as well) because it would reset the wave and let me back faster so I won't miss CS while also making them miss CS. There was no insult or anything passive aggressive. Likewise, I've been accused of flaming for saying that the jungler should focus the mid Vel'Koz shoving me under turret without flash or ult. instead of going for the Gnar who has escapes and summoners as well as less carry potential. Again, no disrespect, just good advice imo based on the game state.

I haven't actually been punished yet but I think it's worrying and rather pathetic that people report just if you give advice or they disagree with you. There's a big difference between flaming and defending an opinion or giving feedback to hopefully have the team adapt and win the game.

35 Comments

AraMoOse6/11/2016, 1:13:09 PM7 votes

Of course I can't see how you tell your jungler he should have ganked for you, but I can say the following:

It is not impossible that you are being a bit too rude and entitled when you say this.
Most people will interpret this kind of comment as a way for you to deny your own part in the situation (not incorrectly in my opinion).
Most people will channel their irritation at this kind of criticism by dismissing you as a whiner.
It is highly likely that the person will then help you even less out of irritation.
It is not the jungler's job to win your lane for you anyways.

In light of all these things, It is almost never a productive approach to blame other people and will likely cause a climate of negativity in your team, which is counter productive. It's really not worth your time and not worth the risk of receiving a report. Take it on the chin and keep doing your best to win.

I hope this was helpful.

ofart6/11/2016, 1:38:31 PM6 votes

I was not rude as I stated. I gave the facts and good advice. It wasn't even whining. Your post feels almost like something someone copy pastes in response to similar threads.

Number 5 is just completely silly and has nothing to do with the post. It could almost be a meme at this point given how frequently it's misused. I main jg and I know what a jg's job is. It varies on the jungler but the main idea is to apply map pressure where it's most likely to yield a reward while also farming as efficiently as possible. Map pressure doesn't even have to be a gank. It could be counterganking, counterjungling, warding well, etc. To say that the jungler should focus the overextended and squishy Vel'Koz with no summoners over a tanky Gnar with escapes as well as summoners isn't whining or asking the jg to win the lane for me. It's just intelligent play exploiting the game state and the weaknesses in a champion's kit.

Your comments are almost as bad as the people who report others for daring to give them advice and suggesting a strategy that fits the game. You're lumping what I wrote into the "blames others" "negative" "thinks jg should win lane for him" nonsense. It feels as if you either didn't read the post at all or failed to comprehend it and it baffles me as to why you'd even bother to respond in that case. Offering advice, while usually in light of something that went suboptimally, falls in neither of those categories. First of all, blaming people isn't even some great crime and any sort of advice indirectly assumes some blame for whoever failed to follow it. That isn't what the problem is and obviously people are always to blame for something since no one's playing perfectly. The issue is when the blaming part is emphasized over the solution. For example, instead of saying, "you should have helped me push the wave when my laner's forced back from the gank and I have no mana or ward coverage" someone who is blaming others unfairly and focusing on the blame aspect would type "it's your fault that I missed the next wave and now he has a cs lead." This isn't a productive comment. As far as negative, again any sort of communication other than "we did everything perfectly" can be misconstrued as negative. I consider negativity as an unrealistically dark assessment focusing on the emotional state rather than reality and improvement. For example "gg Twitch got first blood, game's over" falls into negative. "we're down 3 inhibitors and have no objectives so we should probably ff" is not negative. It is simply a logical opinion. Blaming the jungler and thinking it's their responsibility to win lane would likely produce comments like "wow, jg can't gank and I'm behind" when their jungler is providing good pressure elsewhere or securing objectives and the enemy laner of said person is mobile like a LB. It's even sillier when comments like that are made for a lane that was simply 1v1 the entire game.

woelmuis6/11/2016, 10:01:20 PM3 votes

{quoted} Number 5 is just _completely silly _and has nothing to do with the post.

_Your comments are almost as bad as _

You're _lumping _what I wrote into the "blames others" "negative" "thinks jg should win lane for him" nonsense.

_First of all, blaming people isn't even some great crime _and any sort of advice indirectly assumes some blame for whoever failed to follow it.

I can see why people see your "advice" as flame. You are very aggressive in your reply. Something you see as "not rude", may in fact be very rude to others.

71883083DEL16/11/2016, 9:37:09 PM2 votes

You were telling him how to do his job, not doing your own thing. This could have tilted the jungler potentially, and thrown his game off. You should let him do his job, and you yours.

ltmetal6/11/2016, 4:28:45 PM2 votes

Strangers on the internet are almost never open to advice, and you shouldn't ever expect to teach something to one. I recommend that you phrase your suggestions as favors. Say something like "please gank" instead of "you should gank my lane because his flash is down". Even though you convey less information, I've had more success with manners than dissertation.

Deviantdev6/11/2016, 10:52:24 PM2 votes

People will always find time to be offended regardless of opinion.

Pr0Meister6/15/2016, 2:56:01 PM1 votes

To be fair, I am just a S3 cause I dont have a lot of time to tryhard in Ranked due to RL and my mechanical skills are somewhat lacking. But I have played LoL since season 2 and I dare say I 'get' how the game should be played. When to push, when to recall, watching timers for objectives, when to start and when to contest etc. The works.

But I've noticed that the majority of players flat out refuse to listen to genuine, neutral advice and assume you are raging. To be fair, I do have my rage moments, can't say I am a saint in thsi regard. But even real advice, which is meant to help the player and the team as a whole is ignored out of turn. Even if my higher division friends from Plat or Dia are giving it. I am talking about stuff like "jungler, drake is in 30s dont go gank top now" and "top don't try to 1v1 X he is 2 kills and a 2 items ahead, you have no chance by the numbers". Things I see as common sense are interpreted as if you wish a plague on both their houses.

People need to grow up, sit down and learn to admit when they are wrong and to listen to teammates who genuinely know better. A fact is a fact, and I fully agree with the OP: we will NOT climb unless we sit down, shut up, do what's best for the team and learn to take good advice when it's given (and I personally learn to land skillshots consistently)