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(Follow up 2) So Tantram leaves one irrelevant comment and that's it, case closed?

mah1foo·3/13/2018, 10:43:47 AM·25 votes·7,044 views

Beg my pardon if the title comes out rude, but I'm honestly sick of this.

First the mandatory background explanation though:

  1. I was punished earlier for trying to defend a rather innocent victim who was being verbally harassed by his teammates and even one of my teammates too.
  2. Later Riot support confirmed that the punishment was correct and apparently I "spammed" too much.
  3. After the thread blew up, Riot Tantram left a comment that honestly doesn't answer anything relating the actual issue, and never answered any further comments again.

So, let's tackle into the Tantram's comment, and how it relates to the whole issue and the two other threads:

> I'd have given you a chat restriction if I was hand reviewing this case (which is what the system gave you). > > The top laner said 'open top' and gives up on the team, which is not ok. Then they say to report top for giving up. Even if they got their attitude together and continued to play, of course a statement like that is going to tilt the team. Then you go on a tirade of chat (64 lines in game) .. and 42 lines in post-game where you stick around to call them morons and wish bans upon them. > > Arguing with teammates is not the purpose of chat. I would have muted you after a few comments. It would have been impossible to coordinate with the team over your chatter.

There's quite a lot of discussion about it already on the previous thread, but here are some of the things I'd like to focus on. Please read them all to get a general idea, don't just reply on the first two or three.

  1. He still doesn't answer why he would've given me a chat restriction, as someone points out in the replies, the sentence should continue: "I'd have given you a chat restriction if I was hand reviewing this case, BECAUSE...". Maybe it's because of the after game lobby that he would've punished me, but more on that in point #6.
  2. He mentions the enemy top laner (Darius) saying "open top" and hints at it being good enough reason for his team to tilt. Yet he completely ignores the fact that his team was not helping Darius even when I was taking his second tier turret, does that not justify Darius tilting too then?
  3. The Darius never even actually opened top (other than backing off from turret or I'd dive him), he kept up in farm and did his best to not feed me more. I know this is a little far fetched, but as far as any of us are concerned, it might have been his tactic to fool me into thinking he's not trying, so he can surprise me.
  4. How is the top laner's words related to my punishment or the support team saying I was punished for talking too much?
  5. He talks about me "going on a tirade of chat", a total of 106 lines of text during the game and post-game lobby. I know that's a lot, but I'm a very fast typist on a keyboard, and even if I wasn't, since when is talking a lot against the summoner's code? It would be a different thing if I afked while typing, but 99% of my typing was done during rotations, farming, etc. Like I said I'm a fast typist, I don't need to sit afk in base to type.
  6. He says that I called the enemies morons in the post-game lobby. This is likely true. However, it is completely irrelevant and just a decoy to de-escalate the actual thread. Riot support team never mentioned this in their original reply, they further investigated my punishment and came into the conclusion that the punishment was correct for the reason of me spamming the in-game chat. Whether I was toxic after the game or not doesn't affect the fact that support team didn't take that into account, yet handed out the punishment. This is the issue I was originally trying to tackle. I do not care for my personal punishment, it was merely a 10 game chat restriction, but I do care for the Riot's apparent policy that defending a victim by "talking a lot" is considered a bannable offense.
  7. He says that he would've muted me after a few comments. And he is free to do so, as is anyone else. But that doesn't mean it should be punishable to talk a lot, as long as there's nothing breaking the summoner's code I should be allowed to talk. I wasn't spamming, I was arguing, and relatively politely may I add.
  8. He says it would've been "impossible" to coordinate with the team over my chatter. Someone calculated that I said about one message every 30 seconds, I find it hard to believe that clutters the chat so much that it's impossible to coordinate. Not to mention there are pings that further assist coordinating. And hadn't he already muted me anyways?

And now I want you to forget all 8 points I just made. They're all irrelevant. Those are the minor flaws I was able to come up with by analysing his comment. The major flaws are what you don't see from the comment. The real flaws is what he is ignoring. He never tackled either of the main points of my threads:

  1. It seems to be Riot's stand that you should not stand up for the victims of verbal abuse to show them that they're not alone, not even if you do it rather politely, but instead you should close your eyes and let them be bullied.
  2. You can get banned for talking a lot even if you never break the summoner's code.

He may have shown I flamed someone. He may have let me know that he would've muted me. But he never tackled the real issue. Riot's policy on the issue is absolute madness. And if a further investigation of my comments concluded that talking a lot should be punished, then the system is straight out broken too. And now I'm even more baffled, their way of handling this thing seems to be "leave one comment that defames him as a flamer, and people will forget all the points he's made". This is absurd. There are literally hundreds of comments of people saying that they agree with me that you are supposed to stand up for the weak and the victims of cyber bullying, and now it's all discredited by saying "oh but he flamed someone once". That's not how this works. We want answers.

145 Comments

RiotRiot Tantram3/14/2018, 6:35:12 PM31 votes

You are obviously unhappy with my assessment, as well as unhappy with the Player Support assessment. You've created multiple threads on the manner.

Your story doesn't really add up to what I watched in replay, and the chat logs I pulled.

What I saw was you cause the enemy player to tilt, who then started to intentionally feed you. They ran past you and into minions many times. This obviously caused frustration on the enemy team. In my viewing of the replay .. your chat was used more to frustrate the enemy team than it was to defend a player being bullied. It was akin to :

person : hey that guy punched me (they did) you : no he didn't you : nobody punched you you : if someone punched you you'd know it you : you don't know what a punch is you : you're a bunch of morons who didn't get punched you : i hope you go to jail for accusing someone of punching you x 100+

I gave you my interpretation of things. PSS gave you their interpretation of things. You are more than welcome to open another support ticket and get someone else to look at it if you feel so strongly about it.

It's a chat restriction. The purpose of a chat restriction is to limit your chat so others aren't exposed to so much of your chat, and for you to better understand using chat effectively. I feel the penalty assigned is fitting in this case.

I'm just one person, who saw your post, and watched the replay. Player support tickets are the correct process if you want to appeal your penalty.

colonel cranc3/13/2018, 11:05:31 AM18 votes

cant tell if you are genuinely worried about defending someone and try to justify your case or if you just fish for attention at this point

Ready 2 B Blamed3/13/2018, 1:23:58 PM16 votes
  1. He still doesn't answer why he would've given me a chat restriction.

He doesn't say why because you know why. You've given the information and he analyzed and stated that 'based off this information, I would give you a chat restriction'. Re-stating what you already know would be insulting your intelligence; which, seems like he shouldn't have respected quite that much.

  1. He mentions the enemy top laner (Darius) saying "open top" and hints at it being good enough reason for his team to tilt. Yet he completely ignores the fact that his team was not helping Darius even when I was taking his second tier turret, does that not justify Darius tilting too then?

They're likely dealing with each player case-by-case as you should assume by now. Here, it isn't about the enemy team it's about how you acted poorly in this situation and how you broke TOS. Stop trying to make it about the other people who they've acknowledged acted poorly as well and let the criticism against YOU sink in because ultimately that's what is more important for you as an individual. And yes, players tilt when a player on the team acts negatively. This is something that's always been prevalent in the game.

  1. The Darius never even actually opened top (other than backing off from turret or I'd dive him), he kept up in farm and did his best to not feed me more. I know this is a little far fetched, but as far as any of us are concerned, it might have been his tactic to fool me into thinking he's not trying, so he can surprise me.

'Far fetched' is, first of all, an understatement. Second of all, 'far fetched' does not mean "Hey! This is somewhat, maybe a possible outcome. Therefore, we should assume and act like that's the case rather than the scenario that is, like, 99% more likely". No! Assume the far, FAR more likely case! It's like saying that the person who's aiming a gun at your head is aiming to shoot the wall because, hey, it's a very small minute possibility, so... I don't need to dodge, right?

  1. How is the top laner's words related to my punishment or the support team saying I was punished for talking too much?

It's not. He never stated as such. Your punishment is a result of your own actions and reactions to what you encountered.

  1. He talks about me "going on a tirade of chat", a total of 106 lines of text during the game and post-game lobby. I know that's a lot, but I'm a very fast typist on a keyboard, and even if I wasn't, since when is talking a lot against the summoner's code? It would be a different thing if I afked while typing, but 99% of my typing was done during rotations, farming, etc. Like I said I'm a fast typist, I don't need to sit afk in base to type.

This is the most common excuse for someone that wants to believe he can type while playing the game but, in the end of the day, it's a stupid excuse for a reason. You don't understand the game on a deeper level for this reason. Or at least, this is one prevalent reason why you're so bad at it. Everyone who plays League types fast. This isn't a special skill. Fuck! It'd be special if you couldn't type fast. What you need to sink into your brain is that: typing about something unrelated to the game keeps you from thinking about the game. It puts you in disadvantages that high elo players specifically avoid by only typing very key information that they're able to communicate with a minimal amount of words.

  1. He says that I called the enemies morons in the post-game lobby. This is likely true. However, it is completely irrelevant and just a decoy to de-escalate the actual thread. Riot support team never mentioned this in their original reply, they further investigated my punishment and came into the conclusion that the punishment was correct for the reason of me spamming the in-game chat. Whether I was toxic after the game or not doesn't affect the fact that support team didn't take that into account, yet handed out the punishment. This is the issue I was originally trying to tackle. I do not care for my personal punishment.

Don't say "likely" as if there's a possibility that you didn't say it. You FUCKING said it! Riot has the evidence! Holy shit, you're seriously trying to save your own ass SO hard! It's unbelievable! Just own your fucking mistakes! Don't sit there and toss it on the side with phrases like "AH yeah that.. LIKELY happened but that's w/e". No! You knowingly broke TOS and withheld information from the post-game lobby because you wanted to accentuate your moral compass rather than your behavior that was the result of your punishment which, in my opinion, was VERY soft by Riot. You're a fucking snake and you're trying to sink yourself further down a rabbit hole by saying "Oh I don't care for my personal punishment" YOU FUCKING DO! You've been trying to defend yourself and had the audacity to claim that you do NOT deserve punishment over and over! Suddenly, it's even MORE about you shoving your moral compass. I don't even think Riot remotely stated that what you did was even a bannable offense but shit I'd give you a banhammer harder than Bjergsen dumpstered Svenskeren in this weeks' LCS game!

  1. He says that he would've muted me after a few comments. And he is free to do so, as is anyone else. But that doesn't mean it should be punishable to talk a lot, as long as there's nothing breaking the summoner's code I should be allowed to talk. I wasn't spamming, I was arguing, and relatively politely may I add.

Imagine walking into a library and coming across someone who you disagree with. And you just start talking aloud about the things you disagree with; completely ignorant of any respect for anyone inside. And you're both just stating the same points over and over and over in a fruitless argument that neither of you are gonna win no matter how many times you state the same thing! It IS spamming. You're clogging up a chat that so many people look at. You make yourself unavailable to communicate with because your lack of attention to the game and insistence in arguing forces players to mute you because you are making the situation uncomfortable for everyone in the game. Not only that, but you insist on wasting time talking about something that you'll never be able to fix and ignore things you could be focusing on in the game. And you can come up with any silly excuse like "Oh! I was 10/2" or "i'm a fast typist" that shows why you have no understanding of the game and why you'll never be good.

  1. He says it would've been "impossible" to coordinate with the team over my chatter. Someone calculated that I said about one message every 30 seconds, I find it hard to believe that clutters the chat so much that it's impossible to coordinate. Not to mention there are pings that further assist coordinating. And hadn't he already muted me anyways?

Every 30 seconds!??! 30 seconds! How do you not see how that clutters the chat?!?!? That's insane! That's a new level of lacking self-awareness. If we divided the total game time by 2 that would mean you typed for approximately 13 minutes! That's 13 minutes of you focusing on something completely unrelated to the game! 13 minutes of people forced to put up with your propaganda! I'm... Baffled. I'm honestly so... scared of how ignorant you are of yourself. It's something that's going to be a prevalent battle in your life and it worries me that you cannot overcome that. At least, judging by this it's.. shocking you've gone this far without it being told to you directly. You spent almost HALF the game typing! Look at those words and process them. Analyze yourself!

And now I want you to forget all 8 points I just made. They're all irrelevant. Those are the minor flaws I was able to come up with by analysing his comment. The major flaws are what you don't see from the comment. The real flaws is what he is ignoring. He never tackled either of the main points of my threads:

  1. It seems to be Riot's stand that you should not stand up for the victims of verbal abuse to show them that they're not alone, not even if you do it rather politely, but instead you should close your eyes and let them be bullied.

No, you forced propaganda on players that did not want any of it. Riot repeatedly stated that enforcing the mute button is a function that helps alleviate that pressure. Even if the Darius chose to willingly ignore that function; it is on him and him alone.

  1. You can get banned for talking a lot even if you never break the summoner's code.

You can get punished for spamming.

He may have shown I flamed someone. But he never tackled the real issue. Riot's policy on the issue is absolute madness. And if a further investigation of my comments concluded that talking a lot should be punished, then the system is straight out broken too. And now I'm even more baffled, their way of handling this thing seems to be "leave one comment that defames him as a flamer, and people will forget all the points he's made". This is absurd. That's not how this works. We want answers.

Do you want them to tell you that they're punishing bullies? Because that much should be assumed. They acknowledged that they were bullies so what more do you want? You all are getting punished for the right reasons. And don't say that you are 'defamed' as a flamer. Don't say you flamed 'once'. YOU ARE A FLAMER! You're the kind of person who takes money from someone who robbed a bank and says: "Oh I didn't steal it-someone gave it to me. I did rob a bank before but you shouldn't condemn me for using stolen cash because this isn't the money I stole."