Boards›Player Behavior

Permabanned five minutes after game ended, 1 game referenced.

cp dubspol·9/19/2019, 6:50:02 AM·6 votes·4,689 views

Okay, I get it, I said some mean stuff. But when I get banned because three other toxic people on my team are flaming me and I flame back I feel like there should be some sort of punishment for them as well. How can a permaban on my four year old account be handed out five minutes after the game? I know I shouldn't talk like that in chat but at least watch the game to understand where I'm coming from. It seems to me that just my personal chat log was read and a permanent ban was dolled out right there. When my team is turning on me because I didn't gank their lanes or didn't ult karthus, and we start arguing, I'd like it if the whole situation was looked over, the state of the game, the rest of the players toxicity in the lobby, before instantly dropping the ban hammer on me. any communication other than a little pre-written speech about toxicity in league that I can't appeal to. For all the person who banned my account knows they could've been inting(not saying they were, but 4/11 and 5/12 in a 30 minute game is more than a death every three minutes) and I'd have every right to flame them, but they wouldn't know, they didn't watch the game. Also, a permaban because of one or even two games seems inane to me, especially with how toxic games can get, if you're the one out of the five toxic players that everyone disagrees with, thats four reports on you and only one on each of them. Whats the point of even reporting at that point? I don't beat them, they don't get banned, and why would I even want them to? so I just go next, forget about it, people blame junglers its nothing new, but not anymore.

68 Comments

KFCeytron9/19/2019, 7:04:18 AM4 votes

So, it has come to this: someone displayed misbehavior in a LoL match in flagrant disregard for the game's rules, ToS, EULA, and Summoner's Code. That's unfortunate, and I'm sorry you had to deal with it. If this misbehavior happened in chat (including emotes or ping) and they don't respond positively to a single, courteous, constructive request to focus on the game, your best option is to mute that player. Submit a report after the match. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by asking them to keep it down and then notifying library staff and moving to another area.

Do not respond with misbehavior of your own! If you do that, your teammates may mute and report you, and those reports would be valid. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by getting into a shouting match with them. Just because someone else started it doesn't justify you in continuing it. I'm sure you're familiar with the "s/he started it" trope, where two children get into an argument or fight and then try to claim innocence of any wrongdoing by claiming that they didn't instigate it. As any parent, teacher, or other supervisor of children will tell you, that excuse doesn't fly. When Dad is trying to drive you to Disneyland and your annoying brother starts making faces at you as he's previously been told not to, you should calmly ask him to stop, and then, if that doesn't work, calmly notify your parents of the problem. Making faces at him or shouting at him has never been a good way to get him to stop, and it makes you just as guilty of that as he.

Riot doesn't care who started it. Someone else's misbehavior does not justify your own.

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

  • Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest of the players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game.If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on.
  • Reports are a vital piece to the puzzle. If you are not sure of what sort of behavior is reportable take a look at the Reporting a Player FAQ

In a perfect and just world, everyone who deserved a punishment would get one. In reality, it is possible for some punishable behavior to go unpunished. First, punishments in LoL can only occur after a valid report. Second, punishments take into account the consistency and severity of the punished player's misbehavior: if two players in a match break the same rule in the same way, one who consistently misbehaves in this way might get a punishment while the other who almost never does so gets away without a punishment (this time). At the end of the day, though, all this does is explain how differences in player behavior over many games can produce different results for equivalent behavior within a single game. It doesn't excuse poor behavior. One person having a rare bad day doesn't give a consistently toxic player the right to join in. The only behavior that matters in your punishment is your own... and a good thing, too: how would you feel if you behaved yourself but got punished anyway just because all your teammates were spectacularly friendly, communicative, and positive?

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

We can not discuss other players’ actions with you but you can always report them at end of game and mute them when in game. There is no excuse for raging back or responding to people trying to get you to tilt. You are the only one responsible for your actions and your words which is what we are trying to address with these bans.

The only chat messages included in your chat log are your own for a single, extremely good reason: they are the only ones taken into account for your punishment, because they're the only ones in your control. The things other players said and did in your match might produce in you an impulse to do certain things that may include breaking LoL's rules, but your behavior is your own, and you are responsible for it. If you really think about it, this is a good thing. If a toxic player's goading could exempt you from punishment for your flaming them, calling for reports, etc., then it would logically go the other way as well, resulting in punishments for players who didn't necessarily break any rules but weren't quite as friendly and positive as their teammates. Can you imagine a world where "didn't participate in the dance party and ignored all of our jokes" was a valid report that could get someone suspended for two weeks? We don't want that situation anymore than we want "called our support a braindead waste of space" to be considered an invalid report just because, say, the support was telling their team to harm themselves while they merrily ran it down mid.

You weren't punished for misbehaving in one game. You were punished for misbehaving in one more game, in a consistent pattern of negative behavior that breaks the game's rules. Additionally, the reform card doesn't always show all the logs that led to your punishment: it randomly selects up to several logs. You might see three logs, but you also might see as few as one, even for players whose punishment stems not from a small number of egregious infractions but rather from dozens of instances of mild toxicity. The purpose of the reform card is to tell you how to reform, so it shows you an example of the behavior that prompted your punishment and explains that such behavior is inappropriate and should be avoided if you want to maintain an account in good standing.

Usually, one transgression by itself wouldn't be enough to bring such a punishment to an otherwise clean account, but the IFS works on an escalating punishment system. Breaking a minor rule, like engaging the team in useless arguments, has a minor punishment: a chat restriction. Breaking that same rule over and over again, however, doesn't prompt an endless series of chat restrictions. The severity of the punishment ramps up over time, because the goal is to eliminate the punished player's willingness to break the game's rules. If two chat restrictions don't stop the useless arguments, the system will increase the punishment to a 14-day suspension and deliver a very clear message that the continued rule-breaking is becoming a serious issue and any further instances will result in a permaban. Again, the point is to put a stop to this misbehavior. If a player is more interested in repeatedly breaking the rules than in maintaining access to their account, they'll lose access to their account.

Of course, it's possible to break major rules, like cheating, threatening people, or using chat for hate speech, and skip punishment tiers so that a clean account ends up with a 14-day suspension or even a permaban.

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

PUNISHMENTS GENERALLY FOLLOW A BASIC ESCALATION PATH:

  • First Offense: 10 Game Chat Restriction
  • Second Offense: 25 Game Chat Restriction
  • Third Offense: Two Week Suspension
  • Fourth Offense: Permanent Suspension

However, it is possible to skip to a Two Week or Permanent suspension based on the severity of the behavior in the game. Excessive negative behavior can result in a Two-Week or Permanent suspension at any time without having a chat restriction on the account.

[{quoted}](name=cp dubspol,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-19T06:50:02.961+0000)

and I'd have every right to flame them

You never have that "right." It is always against the rules, it's never justified, and it's never acceptable.

DOUBLE TAPPED E9/19/2019, 7:08:17 AM4 votes

I feel that as a company, if they make something like this:

https://tilttypes.riotgames.com/en-us/p/2

...and don't exercise at least some small amount of understanding when it comes to situations where someone is under attack from teammates and retaliates, they are just blowing smoke up our asses.

It's obvious from this page that Riot KNOWS some people feel an inescapable, deep-rooted, psychologically-driven compulsion to defend themselves from what are perceived to be personal attacks, so there should be at least some small consideration of the circumstances surrounding situations like this.

I KNOW it's against all these rules and blah blah blah, that's why I mute all, because I don't want to lose my account. But why do I have to lose the primary communication channel with my team just because some people can't take as well as they dish out?

Can't go AFK too cool off, going AFK is against the rules. Can't leave the game, leaving the game is against the rules. Can't fight fire with fire, flaming is against the rules. **The rules are biased against a portion of the community large enough that an entire page was made to describe us. **Refusing to communicate is against the rules too, technically, but FORTUNATELY that one isn't enforced, or there would not be a single "barbarian" playing this game.

Silent Gravity9/19/2019, 7:47:45 AM4 votes

You have a few misconceptions on how the system works. I'll try to see if I can help.

[{quoted}](name=cp dubspol,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-19T06:50:02.961+0000)

Okay, I get it, I said some mean stuff.

Well, essentially that means that the punishment was warranted. You signed an agreement with Riot about how you would act while accessing their servers.

But when I get banned because three other toxic people on my team are flaming me and I flame back I feel like there should be some sort of punishment for them as well.

Everyone is responsible for their own behavior. If you think they were breaking their agreement with Riot, the correct response is to report them. Someone's behavior is only examined if they are reported. If no one reports them, Riot will act as if no one was bothered by their behavior. At the end of your post you seem to indicate that you don't report people and don't want them to be punished.

How can a permaban on my four year old account be handed out five minutes after the game?

The IFS is fairly quick.

I know I shouldn't talk like that in chat but at least watch the game to understand where I'm coming from.

Your agreement was with Riot, not with the other players in your game. They are unable to modify the contract you signed. Their actions don't have any impact on how you are allowed to behave.

It seems to me that just my personal chat log was read and a permanent ban was dolled out right there.

Yes. When issuing punishments to an account, only the actions of the account have any bearing.

When my team is turning on me because I didn't gank their lanes or didn't ult karthus, and we start arguing, I'd like it if the whole situation was looked over, the state of the game, the rest of the players toxicity in the lobby, before instantly dropping the ban hammer on me.

If you find it difficult to argue without breaking the contract you signed, I'd suggest not arguing. But, again, other peoples' actions are unable to modify the contract between you and Riot.

any communication other than a little pre-written speech about toxicity in league that I can't appeal to.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you asking for the ability to appeal the judgement? You may do so with a support ticket. But, valid punishments are not overturned, so based on your opening statement, I'd not waste my time. If, instead, you're asking for the statement on toxicity to appeal to your worldview, the time to have that discussion would be before you click "I agree".

For all the person who banned my account knows

Interrupting the sentance here. The IFS is automated.

they could've been inting(not saying they were, but 4/11 and 5/12 in a 30 minute game is more than a death every three minutes) and I'd have every right to flame them,

Once again, other peoples' actions cannot modify the contract you signed with Riot. You do not have the right to flame people. You signed that away when you created your account.

but they wouldn't know, they didn't watch the game.

The IFS checks what a reported player did. It doesn't check things that are not reported.

Also, a permaban because of one or even two games seems inane to me,

Yes. That would be inane, generally speaking. That's why there is a four step punishment ladder that everyone has to go through before earning a permanent ban. The only way to skip that would be to troll, int, use hate speech, or urge self-harm.

especially with how toxic games can get,

Once again, you signed an agreement with Riot, not with the other players. Other peoples' actions are not a reason to break your agreement. If you think that someone else is breaking their agreement, report them.

if you're the one out of the five toxic players that everyone disagrees with, thats four reports on you and only one on each of them.

The IFS checks a player's actions if there is any number of reports greater than 0. 1 report is exactly the same as 9 reports.

Whats the point of even reporting at that point?

It's a report? If you want someone's behavior to be checked, that's what the report is for. Yeah?

I don't beat them, they don't get banned,

Reports don't cancel each other out. The IFS can check the actions of every player, in every game, if they are reported. It relies on reports to trigger rather than checking everything because at the scale of League, that would be a significant investment in electricity and processing time.

and why would I even want them to?

Well, if their behavior annoyed you, having them receive a punishment would probably help them modify their behavior so that they are unlikely to annoy you or other patrons in the future. Also, you earlier wanted them punished alongside you. So, I'll turn the question back to you. Why did you want them punished?

so I just go next, forget about it, people blame junglers its nothing new, but not anymore.

That's a good attitude to have. But, I suggest applying it earlier. Flip that switch when they first start flaming you. If you have a difficult time controlling yourself, I suggest muting at the first sign of them annoying you.

Subdue9/19/2019, 7:43:24 AM3 votes

Yea, your log does show toxicity, and as you were warned when you had your 14 day ban, any toxicity results in a permanent ban. I do agree with you getting escalated to a 14 day ban for a zero tolerance phrase shouldn't immediately put your account in permaban risk for normal behavior. That said, the word you used is a zero tolerance phrase, and what you should have done after your 14 day ban was research what exactly would qualify to get you permanently banned.

I made a post about this a year ago, but unfortunately nothing has changed in that regard.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/xAAcRMo4-the-incompatibility-of-zero-tolerance-with-the-tiered-penalty-system?show=flat&page=6

BLACK REALM GOD9/19/2019, 7:00:09 AM1 votes

league has a zero tolerance policy for certain words or phrases. if you expressed some form of prejudice or social injustice then your account was likely permanently banned for that reason.

or if you wished some form of severe inhumane or unethical act to happen to someone.