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Permabanned five minutes after game ended, 1 game referenced.

cp dubspol··6 votes·4,689 views

Okay, I get it, I said some mean stuff. But when I get banned because three other toxic people on my team are flaming me and I flame back I feel like there should be some sort of punishment for them as well. How can a permaban on my four year old account be handed out five minutes after the game? I know I shouldn't talk like that in chat but at least watch the game to understand where I'm coming from. It seems to me that just my personal chat log was read and a permanent ban was dolled out right there. When my team is turning on me because I didn't gank their lanes or didn't ult karthus, and we start arguing, I'd like it if the whole situation was looked over, the state of the game, the rest of the players toxicity in the lobby, before instantly dropping the ban hammer on me. any communication other than a little pre-written speech about toxicity in league that I can't appeal to. For all the person who banned my account knows they could've been inting(not saying they were, but 4/11 and 5/12 in a 30 minute game is more than a death every three minutes) and I'd have every right to flame them, but they wouldn't know, they didn't watch the game. Also, a permaban because of one or even two games seems inane to me, especially with how toxic games can get, if you're the one out of the five toxic players that everyone disagrees with, thats four reports on you and only one on each of them. Whats the point of even reporting at that point? I don't beat them, they don't get banned, and why would I even want them to? so I just go next, forget about it, people blame junglers its nothing new, but not anymore.

68 Comments

KFCeytron4 votes

So, it has come to this: someone displayed misbehavior in a LoL match in flagrant disregard for the game's rules, ToS, EULA, and Summoner's Code. That's unfortunate, and I'm sorry you had to deal with it. If this misbehavior happened in chat (including emotes or ping) and they don't respond positively to a single, courteous, constructive request to focus on the game, your best option is to mute that player. Submit a report after the match. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by asking them to keep it down and then notifying library staff and moving to another area.

Do not respond with misbehavior of your own! If you do that, your teammates may mute and report you, and those reports would be valid. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by getting into a shouting match with them. Just because someone else started it doesn't justify you in continuing it. I'm sure you're familiar with the "s/he started it" trope, where two children get into an argument or fight and then try to claim innocence of any wrongdoing by claiming that they didn't instigate it. As any parent, teacher, or other supervisor of children will tell you, that excuse doesn't fly. When Dad is trying to drive you to Disneyland and your annoying brother starts making faces at you as he's previously been told not to, you should calmly ask him to stop, and then, if that doesn't work, calmly notify your parents of the problem. Making faces at him or shouting at him has never been a good way to get him to stop, and it makes you just as guilty of that as he.

Riot doesn't care who started it. Someone else's misbehavior does not justify your own.

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

  • Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest of the players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game.If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on.
  • Reports are a vital piece to the puzzle. If you are not sure of what sort of behavior is reportable take a look at the Reporting a Player FAQ

In a perfect and just world, everyone who deserved a punishment would get one. In reality, it is possible for some punishable behavior to go unpunished. First, punishments in LoL can only occur after a valid report. Second, punishments take into account the consistency and severity of the punished player's misbehavior: if two players in a match break the same rule in the same way, one who consistently misbehaves in this way might get a punishment while the other who almost never does so gets away without a punishment (this time). At the end of the day, though, all this does is explain how differences in player behavior over many games can produce different results for equivalent behavior within a single game. It doesn't excuse poor behavior. One person having a rare bad day doesn't give a consistently toxic player the right to join in. The only behavior that matters in your punishment is your own... and a good thing, too: how would you feel if you behaved yourself but got punished anyway just because all your teammates were spectacularly friendly, communicative, and positive?

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

We can not discuss other players’ actions with you but you can always report them at end of game and mute them when in game. There is no excuse for raging back or responding to people trying to get you to tilt. You are the only one responsible for your actions and your words which is what we are trying to address with these bans.

The only chat messages included in your chat log are your own for a single, extremely good reason: they are the only ones taken into account for your punishment, because they're the only ones in your control. The things other players said and did in your match might produce in you an impulse to do certain things that may include breaking LoL's rules, but your behavior is your own, and you are responsible for it. If you really think about it, this is a good thing. If a toxic player's goading could exempt you from punishment for your flaming them, calling for reports, etc., then it would logically go the other way as well, resulting in punishments for players who didn't necessarily break any rules but weren't quite as friendly and positive as their teammates. Can you imagine a world where "didn't participate in the dance party and ignored all of our jokes" was a valid report that could get someone suspended for two weeks? We don't want that situation anymore than we want "called our support a braindead waste of space" to be considered an invalid report just because, say, the support was telling their team to harm themselves while they merrily ran it down mid.

You weren't punished for misbehaving in one game. You were punished for misbehaving in one more game, in a consistent pattern of negative behavior that breaks the game's rules. Additionally, the reform card doesn't always show all the logs that led to your punishment: it randomly selects up to several logs. You might see three logs, but you also might see as few as one, even for players whose punishment stems not from a small number of egregious infractions but rather from dozens of instances of mild toxicity. The purpose of the reform card is to tell you how to reform, so it shows you an example of the behavior that prompted your punishment and explains that such behavior is inappropriate and should be avoided if you want to maintain an account in good standing.

Usually, one transgression by itself wouldn't be enough to bring such a punishment to an otherwise clean account, but the IFS works on an escalating punishment system. Breaking a minor rule, like engaging the team in useless arguments, has a minor punishment: a chat restriction. Breaking that same rule over and over again, however, doesn't prompt an endless series of chat restrictions. The severity of the punishment ramps up over time, because the goal is to eliminate the punished player's willingness to break the game's rules. If two chat restrictions don't stop the useless arguments, the system will increase the punishment to a 14-day suspension and deliver a very clear message that the continued rule-breaking is becoming a serious issue and any further instances will result in a permaban. Again, the point is to put a stop to this misbehavior. If a player is more interested in repeatedly breaking the rules than in maintaining access to their account, they'll lose access to their account.

Of course, it's possible to break major rules, like cheating, threatening people, or using chat for hate speech, and skip punishment tiers so that a clean account ends up with a 14-day suspension or even a permaban.

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

PUNISHMENTS GENERALLY FOLLOW A BASIC ESCALATION PATH:

  • First Offense: 10 Game Chat Restriction
  • Second Offense: 25 Game Chat Restriction
  • Third Offense: Two Week Suspension
  • Fourth Offense: Permanent Suspension

However, it is possible to skip to a Two Week or Permanent suspension based on the severity of the behavior in the game. Excessive negative behavior can result in a Two-Week or Permanent suspension at any time without having a chat restriction on the account.

[{quoted}](name=cp dubspol,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-19T06:50:02.961+0000)

and I'd have every right to flame them

You never have that "right." It is always against the rules, it's never justified, and it's never acceptable.

cp dubspol1 votes

{quoted}

So, it has come to this: someone displayed misbehavior in a LoL match in flagrant disregard for the game's rules, ToS, EULA, and Summoner's Code. That's unfortunate, and I'm sorry you had to deal with it. If this misbehavior happened in chat (including emotes or ping) and they don't respond positively to a single, courteous, constructive request to focus on the game, your best option is to mute that player. Submit a report after the match. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by asking them to keep it down and then notifying library staff and moving to another area.

Do not respond with misbehavior of your own! If you do that, your teammates may mute and report you, and those reports would be valid. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by getting into a shouting match with them. Just because someone else started it doesn't justify you in continuing it. I'm sure you're familiar with the "s/he started it" trope, where two children get into an argument or fight and then try to claim innocence of any wrongdoing by claiming that they didn't instigate it. As any parent, teacher, or other supervisor of children will tell you, that excuse doesn't fly. When Dad is trying to drive you to Disneyland and your annoying brother starts making faces at you as he's previously been told not to, you should calmly ask him to stop, and then, if that doesn't work, calmly notify your parents of the problem. Making faces at him or shouting at him has never been a good way to get him to stop, and it makes you just as guilty of that as he.

Riot doesn't care who started it. Someone else's misbehavior does not justify your own.

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

In a perfect and just world, everyone who deserved a punishment would get one. In reality, it is possible for some punishable behavior to go unpunished. First, punishments in LoL can only occur after a valid report. Second, punishments take into account the consistency and severity of the punished player's misbehavior: if two players in a match break the same rule in the same way, one who consistently misbehaves in this way might get a punishment while the other who almost never does so gets away without a punishment (this time). At the end of the day, though, all this does is explain how differences in player behavior over many games can produce different results for equivalent behavior within a single game. It doesn't excuse poor behavior. One person having a rare bad day doesn't give a consistently toxic player the right to join in. The only behavior that matters in your punishment is your own... and a good thing, too: how would you feel if you behaved yourself but got punished anyway just because all your teammates were spectacularly friendly, communicative, and positive?

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

The only chat messages included in your chat log are your own for a single, extremely good reason: they are the only ones taken into account for your punishment, because they're the only ones in your control. The things other players said and did in your match might produce in you an impulse to do certain things that may include breaking LoL's rules, but your behavior is your own, and you are responsible for it. If you really think about it, this is a good thing. If a toxic player's goading could exempt you from punishment for your flaming them, calling for reports, etc., then it would logically go the other way as well, resulting in punishments for players who didn't necessarily break any rules but weren't quite as friendly and positive as their teammates. Can you imagine a world where "didn't participate in the dance party and ignored all of our jokes" was a valid report that could get someone suspended for two weeks? We don't want that situation anymore than we want "called our support a braindead waste of space" to be considered an invalid report just because, say, the support was telling their team to harm themselves while they merrily ran it down mid.

You weren't punished for misbehaving in one game. You were punished for misbehaving in one more game, in a consistent pattern of negative behavior that breaks the game's rules. Additionally, the reform card doesn't always show all the logs that led to your punishment: it randomly selects up to several logs. You might see three logs, but you also might see as few as one, even for players whose punishment stems not from a small number of egregious infractions but rather from dozens of instances of mild toxicity. The purpose of the reform card is to tell you how to reform, so it shows you an example of the behavior that prompted your punishment and explains that such behavior is inappropriate and should be avoided if you want to maintain an account in good standing.

Usually, one transgression by itself wouldn't be enough to bring such a punishment to an otherwise clean account, but the IFS works on an escalating punishment system. Breaking a minor rule, like engaging the team in useless arguments, has a minor punishment: a chat restriction. Breaking that same rule over and over again, however, doesn't prompt an endless series of chat restrictions. The severity of the punishment ramps up over time, because the goal is to eliminate the punished player's willingness to break the game's rules. If two chat restrictions don't stop the useless arguments, the system will increase the punishment to a 14-day suspension and deliver a very clear message that the continued rule-breaking is becoming a serious issue and any further instances will result in a permaban. Again, the point is to put a stop to this misbehavior. If a player is more interested in repeatedly breaking the rules than in maintaining access to their account, they'll lose access to their account.

Of course, it's possible to break major rules, like cheating, threatening people, or using chat for hate speech, and skip punishment tiers so that a clean account ends up with a 14-day suspension or even a permaban.

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

You never have that "right." It is always against the rules, it's never justified, and it's never acceptable.

In my entire time I have never recieved a chat restriction, and this is my second punishment from riot, the first being a two week suspension. My two transgressions were only in chat, there seems to be no sensible lead up to this. Not trying to be rude, thank you for replying so quickly to my post.

KFCeytron4 votes

[{quoted}](name=cp dubspol,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:22:29.161+0000)

In my entire time I have never recieved a chat restriction, and this is my second punishment from riot, the first being a two week suspension. My two transgressions were only in chat, there seems to be no sensible lead up to this. Not trying to be rude, thank you for replying so quickly to my post.

Like I said before:

However, it is possible to skip to a Two Week or Permanent suspension based on the severity of the behavior in the game. Excessive negative behavior can result in a Two-Week or Permanent suspension at any time without having a chat restriction on the account.

When you get a 14-day suspension, the reform card tells you in no uncertain terms that the next punishment - even for a minor infraction - is a permaban.

cp dubspol1 votes

{quoted}

Like I said before:

When you get a 14-day suspension, the reform card tells you in no uncertain terms that the next punishment - even for a minor infraction - is a permaban.

depression I dont even remember what I said to get the two week, It was just some dumb chat thing though im pretty sure, is there any way to go back and see?

KFCeytron3 votes

[{quoted}](name=cp dubspol,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:38:16.441+0000)

depression I dont even remember what I said to get the two week, It was just some dumb chat thing though im pretty sure, is there any way to go back and see?

Riot probably has a record. Submit a support ticket.

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

cp dubspol1 votes

{quoted}

Riot probably has a record. Submit a support ticket.

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

I submitted a ticket thank you for the advice friend.

DOUBLE TAPPED E2 votes

This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by asking them to keep it down and then notifying library staff and moving to another area.

Except the noisy person is not just being noisy, they're standing right behind you turning the pages of the book you're reading and breaking off the tip of your pencil everytime you sharpen it, and when you don't respond to that they start poking you in the side of the head until you get up and knock all their front teeth out.

KFCeytron2 votes

[{quoted}](name=caffeine abuser,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:53:50.775+0000)

Except the noisy person is not just being noisy, they're standing right behind you turning the pages of the book you're reading and breaking off the tip of your pencil everytime you sharpen it, and when you don't respond to that they start poking you in the side of the head until you get up and knock all their front teeth out.

Why is notifying staff and moving to another area not a viable response to that? Why is assault a viable response to that?

"Excuse me, why did you slay my five-year-old daughter on our first trip to the library?" "She was turning the pages of my book." "Oh, I see. That's a good justification."

DOUBLE TAPPED E1 votes

Well in the example I gave, it wasn't until they started poking the side of my head that I got up.

It's not assault, it's self defense. You just have to count the pokes "1, 2, 3" and now you are being assaulted and have a right to defend yourself with as much force as is necessary to stop them from continuing with their actions.

KFCeytron2 votes

[{quoted}](name=caffeine abuser,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T20:49:09.564+0000)

Well in the example I gave, it wasn't until they started poking the side of my head that I got up.

It's not assault, it's self defense. You just have to count the pokes "1, 2, 3" and now you are being assaulted and have a right to defend yourself with as much force as is necessary to stop them from continuing with their actions.

  1. How did you come to the conclusion that exactly three pokes constitutes assault?
  2. How do you think "knock all their front teeth out" is an appropriate self defense from three pokes? Such a response would be assault. Doing this IRL would get one thrown into prison very quickly and not let out quickly.
  3. There is no way to "assault" someone in LoL through chat or gameplay.
  4. If you don't like someone's chat, you can defend yourself by muting them. Adding your own unpleasant chat doesn't help and isn't self defense.
  5. Beating someone to a pulp because they're poking you in a library is a ton more force than necessary to stop them from continuing with their actions, especially when you didn't need to use force at all and could've simply notified library staff and moved to a different location.
  6. Self defense is just that: defending yourself. Its only purpose is to stop you from being hurt. Anything beyond that is not self defense. "Self defense" is not an excuse to flip your shit and be violent.

Maybe cut down on that caffeine a bit, hm?

DOUBLE TAPPED E4 votes

I feel that as a company, if they make something like this:

https://tilttypes.riotgames.com/en-us/p/2

...and don't exercise at least some small amount of understanding when it comes to situations where someone is under attack from teammates and retaliates, they are just blowing smoke up our asses.

It's obvious from this page that Riot KNOWS some people feel an inescapable, deep-rooted, psychologically-driven compulsion to defend themselves from what are perceived to be personal attacks, so there should be at least some small consideration of the circumstances surrounding situations like this.

I KNOW it's against all these rules and blah blah blah, that's why I mute all, because I don't want to lose my account. But why do I have to lose the primary communication channel with my team just because some people can't take as well as they dish out?

Can't go AFK too cool off, going AFK is against the rules. Can't leave the game, leaving the game is against the rules. Can't fight fire with fire, flaming is against the rules. **The rules are biased against a portion of the community large enough that an entire page was made to describe us. **Refusing to communicate is against the rules too, technically, but FORTUNATELY that one isn't enforced, or there would not be a single "barbarian" playing this game.

Subdue5 votes

[{quoted}](name=caffeine abuser,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:08:17.754+0000)

I feel that as a company, if they make something like this:

https://tilttypes.riotgames.com/en-us/p/2

...and don't exercise at least some small amount of understanding when it comes to situations where someone is under attack from teammates and retaliates, they are just blowing smoke up our asses.

What do you consider a "small amount of understanding?" As it is, the system is VERY lenient. You don't have to be nice or communicative. You only have to be neutral and you'll never receive a penalty. And furthermore, because it takes into account frequency and severity, occasional outbursts where you go on tilt won't get you penalized either, unless your outburst is very severe, including racial slurs, calls to self harm, and other zero tolerance behavior. So, to recap, you don't have to be nice, and you can even be an asshat once in a while, and you'll never get punished. To get punished you either have to be severely toxic in a few games, or consistently toxic in many many games.

DOUBLE TAPPED E1 votes

Re-read, I made a lengthy edit.

DOUBLE TAPPED E3 votes

Also I made it to punishment tier 2 (honor 0, 25 game restriction) from a grand total of 5 matches over the 7 years I've played this game where I was being flamed in NORMALS for underperforming on a champion I DON'T PLAY, and I tried to defend myself but was continuously harassed to the point of exploding in a fit of rage. "Oh you can't do that! You are hurting the feelings of those players who are calling you trash and garbage and telling you to uninstall because you should have been aborted, they are such gentle little lambs who never did anything to deserve it, how dare you, you monster!"

Where's the consideration for my perspective? Why don't my feelings matter?

Karunamon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=caffeine abuser,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:21:34.363+0000)

Also I made it to punishment tier 2 (honor 0, 25 game restriction) from a grand total of 5 matches over the 7 years I've played this game where I was being flamed in NORMALS for underperforming on a champion I DON'T PLAY, and I tried to defend myself but was continuously harassed to the point of exploding in a fit of rage. "Oh you can't do that! You are hurting the feelings of those players who are calling you trash and garbage and telling you to uninstall because you should have been aborted, they are such gentle little lambs who never did anything to deserve it, how dare you, you monster!"

Where's the consideration for my perspective? Why don't my feelings matter?

The feelings (and stats) of your team matter more at the end of the day. And you can talk about poor mental all you want, but toxicity has a provable negatve impact on winrates.

Lokiijuice1 votes

Lol what but in this example the team is just as bad . So defending yourself is wrong in the case that the other people on your team are all of the same mind? Majority wins? If the conversation was unproductive and spiteful it makes more sense to get a chat ban. Imo.

Karunamon3 votes

{quoted}

Lol what but in this example the team is just as bad . So defending yourself is wrong in the case that the other people on your team are all of the same mind? Majority wins? If the conversation was unproductive and spiteful it makes more sense to get a chat ban. Imo.

There is no "defending yourself" against words. You either stop the words from coming, or you contribute to the problem.

Lokiijuice1 votes

??? You are silly. I got more to add but I’m not gunna bother :)

Subdue4 votes

[{quoted}](name=caffeine abuser,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:16:11.396+0000)

Re-read, I made a lengthy edit.

Like I said, the consideration is in the leniency. Once in a while someone will say something that really pisses you off, and you may give into the compulsion to argue back at them. You don't get penalized for doing this ONCE IN A WHILE, unless your idea of arguing back is throwing around slurs or advocating self harm. However, if it happens all the time, you absolutely deserve a penalty, because you're contributing to a bad experience not just for yourself and the person you're arguing with, but for everyone who has to listen to your bitching and moaning.

cp dubspol5 votes

{quoted}

What do you consider a "small amount of understanding?" As it is, the system is VERY lenient. You don't have to be nice or communicative. You only have to be neutral and you'll never receive a penalty. And furthermore, because it takes into account frequency and severity, occasional outbursts where you go on tilt won't get you penalized either, unless your outburst is very severe, including racial slurs, calls to self harm, and other zero tolerance behavior. So, to recap, you don't have to be nice, and you can even be an asshat once in a while, and you'll never get punished. To get punished you either have to be severely toxic in a few games, or consistently toxic in many many games.

I would beg to differ, this is the only my second instance of punishment from riot in my four year runtime, other than that ive been obedient to the rules. Riot knows their game is tilting and aggravating at times, so more indepth analysis of a game where you decide the fate of a long running account would be appreciated.

Subdue3 votes

[{quoted}](name=cp dubspol,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:20:10.182+0000)

I would beg to differ, this is the only my second instance of punishment from riot in my four year runtime, other than that ive been obedient to the rules. Riot knows their game is tilting and aggravating at times, so more indepth analysis of a game where you decide the fate of a long running account would be appreciated.

You didn't post the logs so there's no way to verify. However, just because you haven't been penalized does not mean you've "been obedient to the rules." Like I said, the system is VERY lenient and weighs both frequency and severity of toxicity. You can be neutral most of the time, and occasionally an asshole, and never receive a punishment. That doesn't mean you haven't been breaking the rules, you just haven't been breaking them enough to receive a punishment. You can submit a ticket and they'll tell you how many times you've been validly reported.

cp dubspol1 votes

{quoted}

You didn't post the logs so there's no way to verify. However, just because you haven't been penalized does not mean you've "been obedient to the rules." Like I said, the system is VERY lenient and weighs both frequency and severity of toxicity. You can be neutral most of the time, and occasionally an asshole, and never receive a punishment. That doesn't mean you haven't been breaking the rules, you just haven't been breaking them enough to receive a punishment. You can submit a ticket and they'll tell you how many times you've been validly reported.

I understand, but no chat restrictions at all? I've never afk'd or inted im pretty sure, everything ive done has been chat based, so I guess I just don't understand why I havent got a chat restriction but a 2 week suspension and permaban are on the table

Subdue3 votes

[{quoted}](name=cp dubspol,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:29:21.968+0000)

I understand, but no chat restrictions at all? I've never afk'd or inted im pretty sure, everything ive done has been chat based, so I guess I just don't understand why I havent got a chat restriction but a 2 week suspension and permaban are on the table

Post your logs. And yes, that word is one of the zero tolerance phrases.

cp dubspol1 votes

{quoted}

Post your logs. And yes, that word is one of the zero tolerance phrases.

Game 1 In-Game cp dubspol: she saw annie cp dubspol: no cp dubspol: mana cp dubspol: needed cp dubspol: blue cp dubspol: asshole cp dubspol: nope cp dubspol: wouldnt matter anyway cp dubspol: 1 ww ult doesnt do anything there cp dubspol: i wouldnt have the rest of my kit cp dubspol: go cp dubspol: to cp dubspol: drag cp dubspol: you cp dubspol: r%%%%%s cp dubspol: glad we could not get the pick top and not get the tower mid cp dubspol: so we could not get the drag cp dubspol: titanic cp dubspol: tank item cp dubspol: wits end cp dubspol: tank item cp dubspol: shut up cp dubspol: nope cp dubspol: 4v3 cp dubspol: fiddle suicide cp dubspol: i was cp dubspol: gave up cp dubspol: when noone cam cp dubspol: then they get it for free cp dubspol: lol cp dubspol: you are all trolls cp dubspol: how? cp dubspol: zzz cp dubspol: yeah cp dubspol: 5v3 cp dubspol: what you want cp dubspol: you really think we win a fight at this point cp dubspol: ???? cp dubspol: yeah we win fights cp dubspol: for sure cp dubspol: you guys are genius cp dubspol: im not 4/7 cp dubspol: oh 4/8 cp dubspol: bot dead cant contest cp dubspol: its not only my job to get dragb cp dubspol: bot priority is most important cp dubspol: i just have smite cp dubspol: i can steal it cp dubspol: nice cp dubspol: that what you want? cp dubspol: there you go friend cp dubspol: oh yeah cp dubspol: living is really important cp dubspol: glad to see 5/10 fiddle flaming me for dying cp dubspol: good idea cp dubspol: you're so smart cp dubspol: you know a hell of a lot about that cp dubspol: why do you think i didnt gank yoiu cp dubspol: ur useless cp dubspol: 4/10 Post-Game cp dubspol: blame the jg cp dubspol: when you cant play cp dubspol: whatev cp dubspol: classic

Its kinda hard to

Niggel Wessom2 votes

I hate the chatting needs to be friendly rules as someone who likes to talk trash, but I honestly dont know how you can look at these logs and wonder why you got a penalty lol

cp dubspol1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Niggel Wessom,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=00020000000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:40:44.812+0000)

I hate the chatting needs to be friendly rules as someone who likes to talk trash, but I honestly dont know how you can look at these logs and wonder why you got a penalty lol

I would totally understand a chat restriction here, and I did have a 14 day suspension on my account from before for something else I said in chat, but both occasions were riot told me I was doing something wrong were both for chat things, Im not an inter, im not an afker, my only infractions were in chat

Niggel Wessom1 votes

Didnt you say you had a 2 week ban already? Isnt perma after 2 week ban

shunpo script7 votes

I know for a fact this comment will be downvoted to oblivion, but only because people don't like it, not because it's false:

It's easier to ban based on chat offenses. The evidence is there, and it's even simple enough to automate. It saves them money and they can show some figures saying "look at all the accounts that were banned for toxic behavior we sure are doing a good job, right everyone?" But we all know it's not true. The only games I can even remember where I was flamed are the ones that were in my logs when I got punished for retaliating, being flamed is not something that should stick with you, and for most people I'm guessing it doesn't.

Inting? Griefing? Throwing a game because you're mad? Those stick with me. I remember every single time someone has run it down, or soft-inted a game with their little "oops I didn't realize such and such oh man sorry guys" but they keep doing it over and over and it's pretty obvious they aren't an IDIOT.

Those are hard to punish, those require manual reviews, which means writing paychecks, which means a hit to the bottom line, which means the corporate liaison for the player behavior department gets a stern talking-to from management! Oh the tragedy!

Like I said, you all won't like this, and you'll cast your little reddit shame point on it, but you know it's true, and nothing you do will ever change that it's true.

Tele II1 votes

[{quoted}](name=shunpo script,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=000200000001000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:36:05.428+0000)

I know for a fact this comment will be downvoted to oblivion, but only because people don't like it, not because it's false:

It's easier to ban based on chat offenses. The evidence is there, and it's even simple enough to automate. It saves them money and they can show some figures saying "look at all the accounts that were banned for toxic behavior we sure are doing a good job, right everyone?" But we all know it's not true. The only games I can even remember where I was flamed are the ones that were in my logs when I got punished for retaliating, being flamed is not something that should stick with you, and for most people I'm guessing it doesn't.

Inting? Griefing? Throwing a game because you're mad? Those stick with me. I remember every single time someone has run it down, or soft-inted a game with their little "oops I didn't realize such and such oh man sorry guys" but they keep doing it over and over and it's pretty obvious they aren't an IDIOT.

Those are hard to punish, those require manual reviews, which means writing paychecks, which means a hit to the bottom line, which means the corporate liaison for the player behavior department gets a stern talking-to from management! Oh the tragedy!

Like I said, you all won't like this, and you'll cast your little reddit shame point on it, but you know it's true, and nothing you do will ever change that it's true.

Why would thaat be downvoted to oblivion? Youre being pragramatic about it. Thats what people respect. Its the brainwashed kids that spew bullshit hyperbolic exaggerations that get downvoted. Youre just spewing truth xD

Lokiijuice1 votes

Exactly what he’s saying is regardless of their leniency, if you don’t get a chat ban or some other warning how would you know that you’re being toxic enough . Because guidelines on toxicity are pretty vague and in most cases people don’t receive repercussions so how are you supposed to know where the line is and when you’ve crossed it.

Niggel Wessom3 votes

No you definitely have to be nice. Speaking as someone who has been chat restricted on multiple accounts you should just be nice or not type.

cp dubspol3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Niggel Wessom,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:37:30.176+0000)

No you definitely have to be nice. Speaking as someone who has been chat restricted on multiple accounts you should just be nice or not type.

wish I got a chat restriction ;-;

Subdue6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Niggel Wessom,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:37:30.176+0000)

No you definitely have to be nice. Speaking as someone who has been chat restricted on multiple accounts you should just be nice or not type.

Speaking as someone who has had an account in good standing with 0 penalties across thousands of games since Season 1, you do not have to be nice. You have to be neutral, and you can slip up and be a jerk once in a while without receiving a penalty.

Lokiijuice1 votes

My boyfriend just got permabanned for defending me from someone trying to flame me (cause I’m bad at the game) and he didn’t use severe cursing, slurs, or homophobia. Also had only ever had one two week ban before this no warnings. ? It makes no sense as a fiction when most people can be as mean as they want no problem but if you happen to get “caught” the one time you speak up, you’re done.

Subdue4 votes

{quoted}

My boyfriend just got permabanned for defending me from someone trying to flame me (cause I’m bad at the game) and he didn’t use severe cursing, slurs, or homophobia. Also had only ever had one two week ban before this no warnings. ? It makes no sense as a fiction when most people can be as mean as they want no problem but if you happen to get “caught” the one time you speak up, you’re done.

If he got a 2 week ban without any chat restrictions, he was either severely toxic in a few games, or he said a zero tolerance word/phrase. This automatically bumps you penalty level to 3, with 4 being the permanent ban. At penalty level 3, even very light toxicity can push you over the edge.

This is how the system is currently setup. While I agree that zero tolerance phrases should be penalized, and I believe that penalties should escalate for repeat offenders, I think this unique interaction between a ZT penalties and the penalty levels should be fixed, and I had a pretty lengthy post about it from a year ago.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/xAAcRMo4-the-incompatibility-of-zero-tolerance-with-the-tiered-penalty-system

Lokiijuice1 votes

Ok, I can understand if you say it that way. I said this in another reply but it doesn’t make a lotta sense for it to jump to extreme decisions so quickly especially with little to no warning. And when the game literally breeds “toxic” culture (an intentionally tilting game plus competitive banter) plus the fact that a lot of people really are repeat offenders but nothing happens just really has me questioning their algorithm. Like I said, I’m bad at the game which sucks and I’m always trying to do a little better, but cause of that I get flamed constantly and mercilessly (cause I rlly suck). I do report when it’s bad but it’s never resulted in anything (cause from what I understand when someone suffers a penalty you get a notification of a successful report or something). I know it also depends on if that person is a frequent filter but most cases for me, people get heated pretty quick which tells me it’s a regular thing for them. I’m just really questioning their algorithm for dealing with this cause it seems like a lot of people are running into this same problem. Riot is playing two extremes of being really lenient and not “catching” ppl due to volume I guess but then also they go to really extreme conclusions based on just a few instances. I’m gunna read the thingy now too I just wanted to comment first I just got out of the bread factory :)

Lokiijuice1 votes

Edit: I just read the thingy and you put exactly what I want into words!! The way penalties are currently set up is just no bueno and is honestly as productive as the flaming itself lol.(it’s not productive or a solid solution to the problem!!) Ps my auto correct has a mind of its own

Literal IRL Tree3 votes

I'm not nice and I have 7000 games with never a chat ban or normal ban aside from my internet cutting out a lot back in season 4 and getting 2 week'd when they still did that. I talk a decent amount and its rarely just positive stuff its normally banter lol.

Lokiijuice1 votes

This is exactly what I’m saying about people who tilt and get toxic all the time but nothing happens. Not that I want u to get banned cause I know people get upset and fired up, that’s normal

The system is just very flawed. Imo.

Tele II1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Niggel Wessom,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:37:30.176+0000)

No you definitely have to be nice. Speaking as someone who has been chat restricted on multiple accounts you should just be nice or not type.

No. You just said yourself "or not type". Thats neutral. You have to NOT be negative, thats all. Positive, neutral, thats fine. Dont have to be nice EVER to avoid punishment in this game.

Niggel Wessom1 votes

If you use chat you have to be nice. Period. Not typing is not using chat lol. So you are either nice or you're not allowed to use chat. "Aw man unlucky dude dont worry we can come back :)" I said to my 0 and 9 adc

Tele II1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Niggel Wessom,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=00020000000200040000,timestamp=2019-09-20T17:04:12.431+0000)

If you use chat you have to be nice. Period. Not typing is not using chat lol. So you are either nice or you're not allowed to use chat. "Aw man unlucky dude dont worry we can come back :)" I said to my 0 and 9 adc

You dont though. I mainly use chat for exclamations like "fuck" and "god dammit". Those arent nice. They're not mean either. Theyre neutral. You can use the chat in a neutral way, you never HAVE TO be nice. NEVER. It is not a requirement. And I've never had a punishment. (in game, i have had my main account permabanned on the forums though lol)

Niggel Wessom1 votes

I got perma for sayin exact same stuff lmao guess u got lucky I deadass skipped the multiple day bans and went straight to the big one haha

Tele II1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Niggel Wessom,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=0002000000020004000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-21T18:19:04.416+0000)

I got perma for sayin exact same stuff lmao guess u got lucky I deadass skipped the multiple day bans and went straight to the big one haha

For saying the exact same stuff, PLUS other stuff that i dont say.

Silent Gravity4 votes

You have a few misconceptions on how the system works. I'll try to see if I can help.

[{quoted}](name=cp dubspol,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-19T06:50:02.961+0000)

Okay, I get it, I said some mean stuff.

Well, essentially that means that the punishment was warranted. You signed an agreement with Riot about how you would act while accessing their servers.

But when I get banned because three other toxic people on my team are flaming me and I flame back I feel like there should be some sort of punishment for them as well.

Everyone is responsible for their own behavior. If you think they were breaking their agreement with Riot, the correct response is to report them. Someone's behavior is only examined if they are reported. If no one reports them, Riot will act as if no one was bothered by their behavior. At the end of your post you seem to indicate that you don't report people and don't want them to be punished.

How can a permaban on my four year old account be handed out five minutes after the game?

The IFS is fairly quick.

I know I shouldn't talk like that in chat but at least watch the game to understand where I'm coming from.

Your agreement was with Riot, not with the other players in your game. They are unable to modify the contract you signed. Their actions don't have any impact on how you are allowed to behave.

It seems to me that just my personal chat log was read and a permanent ban was dolled out right there.

Yes. When issuing punishments to an account, only the actions of the account have any bearing.

When my team is turning on me because I didn't gank their lanes or didn't ult karthus, and we start arguing, I'd like it if the whole situation was looked over, the state of the game, the rest of the players toxicity in the lobby, before instantly dropping the ban hammer on me.

If you find it difficult to argue without breaking the contract you signed, I'd suggest not arguing. But, again, other peoples' actions are unable to modify the contract between you and Riot.

any communication other than a little pre-written speech about toxicity in league that I can't appeal to.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you asking for the ability to appeal the judgement? You may do so with a support ticket. But, valid punishments are not overturned, so based on your opening statement, I'd not waste my time. If, instead, you're asking for the statement on toxicity to appeal to your worldview, the time to have that discussion would be before you click "I agree".

For all the person who banned my account knows

Interrupting the sentance here. The IFS is automated.

they could've been inting(not saying they were, but 4/11 and 5/12 in a 30 minute game is more than a death every three minutes) and I'd have every right to flame them,

Once again, other peoples' actions cannot modify the contract you signed with Riot. You do not have the right to flame people. You signed that away when you created your account.

but they wouldn't know, they didn't watch the game.

The IFS checks what a reported player did. It doesn't check things that are not reported.

Also, a permaban because of one or even two games seems inane to me,

Yes. That would be inane, generally speaking. That's why there is a four step punishment ladder that everyone has to go through before earning a permanent ban. The only way to skip that would be to troll, int, use hate speech, or urge self-harm.

especially with how toxic games can get,

Once again, you signed an agreement with Riot, not with the other players. Other peoples' actions are not a reason to break your agreement. If you think that someone else is breaking their agreement, report them.

if you're the one out of the five toxic players that everyone disagrees with, thats four reports on you and only one on each of them.

The IFS checks a player's actions if there is any number of reports greater than 0. 1 report is exactly the same as 9 reports.

Whats the point of even reporting at that point?

It's a report? If you want someone's behavior to be checked, that's what the report is for. Yeah?

I don't beat them, they don't get banned,

Reports don't cancel each other out. The IFS can check the actions of every player, in every game, if they are reported. It relies on reports to trigger rather than checking everything because at the scale of League, that would be a significant investment in electricity and processing time.

and why would I even want them to?

Well, if their behavior annoyed you, having them receive a punishment would probably help them modify their behavior so that they are unlikely to annoy you or other patrons in the future. Also, you earlier wanted them punished alongside you. So, I'll turn the question back to you. Why did you want them punished?

so I just go next, forget about it, people blame junglers its nothing new, but not anymore.

That's a good attitude to have. But, I suggest applying it earlier. Flip that switch when they first start flaming you. If you have a difficult time controlling yourself, I suggest muting at the first sign of them annoying you.

Subdue3 votes

Yea, your log does show toxicity, and as you were warned when you had your 14 day ban, any toxicity results in a permanent ban. I do agree with you getting escalated to a 14 day ban for a zero tolerance phrase shouldn't immediately put your account in permaban risk for normal behavior. That said, the word you used is a zero tolerance phrase, and what you should have done after your 14 day ban was research what exactly would qualify to get you permanently banned.

I made a post about this a year ago, but unfortunately nothing has changed in that regard.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/xAAcRMo4-the-incompatibility-of-zero-tolerance-with-the-tiered-penalty-system?show=flat&page=6

cp dubspol1 votes

{quoted}

Yea, your log does show toxicity, and as you were warned when you had your 14 day ban, any toxicity results in a permanent ban. I do agree with you getting escalated to a 14 day ban for a zero tolerance phrase shouldn't immediately put your account in permaban risk for normal behavior. That said, the word you used is a zero tolerance phrase, and what you should have done after your 14 day ban was research what exactly would qualify to get you permanently banned.

I made a post about this a year ago, but unfortunately nothing has changed in that regard.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/xAAcRMo4-the-incompatibility-of-zero-tolerance-with-the-tiered-penalty-system?show=flat&page=6

Thank you for understanding, I want to look into the 14 day suspension more in depth with someone from riot, since I no longer have the logs for the game that got me that ban, but it was a game with friends, and I was reported by a friend jokingly, although I did say some things at him in the league chat, jokingly.

BladeSteel1 votes

If you haven't had any chat restrictions before the 14 day ban, and you said hate speech or wished harm to people, they won't reverse the 14 day ban, even if it was with friends. There is no way to prove you said it as a joke, or that your friend reported you as a joke that Riot will accept. You can try, but most likely you won't get either ban reversed.

If you want to joke around with friends, do so in voice chat or on discord, not in league chat.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

league has a zero tolerance policy for certain words or phrases. if you expressed some form of prejudice or social injustice then your account was likely permanently banned for that reason.

or if you wished some form of severe inhumane or unethical act to happen to someone.

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