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@Riot - Toxic Players aren't the core issue, it's those that have no second thoughts to trolling

Śovereign·3/26/2016, 1:03:30 PM·42 votes·3,620 views

I don't think I've ever played any other MMO or multiplayer based game where so many players have absolutely no problem with outright deliberately destroying their team's chances of winning. There are two main factors that correlate to why this is more prevalent in League than anywhere else.

  • There is currently no real punishment for intentional feeding because the system is poor at detecting what is "intentional" and what is "bad play". This gives players more incentive to be dicks. I've checked on known intentional feeders that I have reported in the past only to find out their still in action ruining games nonstop.
  • Every League match matters in some way and this is especially true for ranked play. The fact remains that ranked play's largest flaw is the fact you're punished so heavily for circumstances that are out of your control such as someone feeding intentionally or afking, some people enjoy the feeling of power they have knowing that what they're doing will ruin their team's efforts to advance higher in the ladder.

Now back to the main topic, the reason why toxic players aren't the core issue is because this is the massive hole in your system. It allows people that enjoy trolling and just ruining someone's mood to bait people into reacting in the natural human way and then allows the trolls to report them and get them banned. So basically the system allows trolls to troll and punishes those that snap at the asshole for being a dick - While I know retaliation isn't the answer, it's sure as hell hard to not answer with that. I've had so many games where everyone just became toxic because one player was just ruining the whole game with his trolling, I don't think Riot understands that **trolling is worse because the mute function already allows you to deal with toxic players but there is no way for players to deal with some asshole that is running down mid lane with 6 boots. **

I recently conducted a little experiment where I personally interviewed 5 players that I had played with (not in the same match) that where toxic and I asked them a series of questions.

  • The first question i asked is "Why are you so toxic" - The responses I got were all along the lines of "In a last match I had a troll ruin my game" - Again I can't remember the exact responses but basically I found that these players were in a shitty mood because some asshole made them that way. I know many are going to say that they should just forget the past, but it doesn't matter how hard you forget the past the fact remains that if you're trying to play a game with the intention of having fun and that guy is taking that from you your mood is going to go downhill.

  • The second question I asked is "Why not just report the trolls?" - The response I got just took the words out of my mouth and it basically went "It won't do anything anyway".

So in summary toxic players are a production of those that are deliberately manipulating Riot's incomplete system to ruin as many games as possible. How many threads do we need of a player in Diamond Elo intentionally feeding with no items? How many support tickets must I open to report intentional feeders only to be met with the realization that they are playing almost a year later doing similar shit?

Anyways I just wanted to get something off my chest that I had been feeling for awhile, thank you for reading if you did decide to read the whole thing.

41 Comments

Hethalean3/26/2016, 1:23:14 PM6 votes

For starters, I understand how frustrating it can be to have an intentional feeder in your game. I don't play ranked, so I personally haven't been impacted by this. Mostly feeders in my game are poorly skilled players (like myself). That being said they do allow you to report a player for intentionally feeding. I'm not sure how robust of a system detection this is.

However, my only recommendation at this point is to keep on reporting trolls even if you feel like 'it will not do anything'. It's a difficult problem and it's hard to not feel like it is useless when reporting someone doesn't result in correction. It is hard to not succumb to feelings of defeat to be sure.

I'm sure that Riot knows something is wrong and is working on a solution. If not because Riot seems to take a hard stance against bad community behavior, that bad behavior is bad for $$ if it forces potential players out of the game. :D

Thanks for posting a thought out message.

DarkBillyBoy3/26/2016, 10:17:03 PM6 votes

Example 1 : intentionally losing reanked games for over a month (100+ ranked games. i lost track of him after 1.5 month) : http://prntscr.com/96oiu8 Example 2 : intentionally losing ranked games for over 2 weeks ( 45 ranked games ) : http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=K0eZa

Lyte post : http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/i5yNt3I5-upgrading-the-intentional-feeder-detection-system?comment=0066

YES LYTE YES THE SYSTEM WORKS !!! YES

EDIT : these cases are the most extreme that can get. we practically never see players like these. imagine what this means for the majority of trollers out there who troll occasionally (maybe 1/10 games, or once per month, and such) and when they do it, they dont even go 0/20/0 or afk whole game, but they troll in such a way so even if some1 was spectating him he wouldnt know if the guy is simply bronze 5 or intentionally trolling. But how can some1 playing like bronze 5 in gold+ ? x) This simply means, trollers do not get punished. end of story lyte.

0f04J0X1YO3/26/2016, 2:01:01 PM5 votes

Giving the game and average length of 30 minutes Ive got some math for people who think that trolls arent far more dangerous to the game than flamers.

If the game he trolls has no one in a series hes stolen at least 4 players time from them which is already 120 minutes. If anyone had a series hes now put them in a do or die situation, which will easily tilt alot of people. now lets assume someone was in that do or die game when they did this, that one player must now play at least 3 more games (1 to get back in 2 to win) to undo what hes done. 120+90=210 minutes Now lets say the unlikely happens and everyone was in a series. so 120+90+90+90+90 = 480 minutes or 8 hours of other peoples lives damaged by this guy who decided to be a problem.

You can still win games with a flamer, because as mad as they are they still want to win. Someone who wants to lose on the other hand is far more difficult to over come, its not impossible but the chances of doing so even when discussing just these two evils as options is far, far less likely. This is something that Riot should be spending far more attention on, but they wont. It takes effort.

General Esdeath 3/26/2016, 11:45:45 PM3 votes

No, clearly automated systems that can be easily fooled are better than having real players judge in tribunal and decide on what is "toxic" to this game and what isn't. Sure it can't detect feeding unless it sees a person walk under turret with no minions at level 1. Sure it can't see passive aggressive toxicity like a tahm eating a team mate and throwing them into the enemy. Sure it can't see troll picks and builds. But hey, at least it's not a bot right? Oh wait...

Lùmen3/27/2016, 12:06:23 PM2 votes

I watched a 1 trick pony gangplank streamer who had a troll yasuo who went 1\18 . he was sooo bad, he kept saying he was tilted and was acting so good and after he got reported, obviously enough.. not banned. this is the kinda stuff riot needs to pay attention to, not toxicity. (for once)

Darkslayer853/27/2016, 12:54:20 AM2 votes

They must be noobs if they feed with no items. Everyone knows you buy item 1326 item 3113 item 2053 item 3742 for maximum speed to quickly feed and kill themselves.

SuperGlide3/27/2016, 12:59:20 AM2 votes

I'm super confused by this topic, are you saying Riot shouldn't ban flamers because its not their fault? The problem of trolls and the problem of flamers are two separate issues. If the only time you flame is when you have a troll in your group, as long as you avoid certain buzzwords your pretty much entirely safe from getting punished. I've played the game for well over a year now and have never gotten a punishment, although I prolly should of for some of the things I've said. Its the people who flame at normal players for feeding even though they are trying or the players who scream at there whole team that get banned. The other problem Riot has to deal with is most of these toxic players will report a player for intentional feeding when the player is clearly trying, but just having a bad game. This bogs down the system and makes it harder to ID the real feeders.

Luca7153/26/2016, 11:01:03 PM2 votes

To solve toxicity you can simply perma mute People rather than ban them and force them to be toxic on another account. Reducing the number of trolls on this game will also reduce flamers so maybe feeders and trolls deserve a little more attention as the true stain of this community

SanKakU3/26/2016, 5:05:42 PM2 votes

People that intentionally feed and that kind of thing are the toxic players in my book. Their game play itself is toxic, so who cares how they type? Granted, sometimes their typing is toxic too, but for me personally that isn't the frustrating part of the experience of getting trolled as you call it. If anything, it just makes it easier to punish a player that is toxic in chat because they may admit to their trolling, whereas the worst toxic players won't admit to doing wrong and therefore get away with it for far longer.

TrueDjinn12/26/2017, 12:45:04 AM1 votes

trolling, intting and toxic baiting.should have hard punishment for it cause its the source of getting toxic,not because someone is flamming it means he is toxic.

for many years i have seen intting mid,trolls,premade trolls baiting solo players to flame and while they are making fun of him and the system don't find it as an aggressive action at all,now here is the problem,when this solo player starts to say back to them,he is banned immediately

USMC81C3/27/2016, 6:27:34 AM1 votes

New Riot punishment instead of bans toxic players only get to play Cassiopeia, Singed or Teemo

Jai Ho3/27/2016, 6:14:57 PM1 votes

I agree with you, it really takes out the fun in playing a game.

Ada Wong3/27/2016, 8:49:43 PM1 votes

The new champion selection is great, but lets talk about what it brings to the team.

1.) Trolls, people who intentionally throw a persons lane then argue

2.) Retards ( The Toxic Word) but I can be a bit more blunt about this here.

. Players who don't understand how to play so your team has zero tank, zero cc . You get players who do ADC top, teemo top, Quinn Top, players who do something every single game because they don't understand anything EX, Blitz, Alistar, or Natalus.

Why they do this they see a pro player do it so they are like im gonna do it and end up doing nothing because they are useless to the comp, worst of all they argue about it like a dummy and its proven in the actual game and they argue more eventually you can't argue with an idiot and have to /mute

3.) Elo Boosting, Yes thats right new champion select supports this just pay for ELO Boosting services play your own account to get carried out by ELO Boosters (Its legal as long as you are playing your own account and 4 others queue and they can see this from your own IP address they won't punish.

So yeah this about sums it up players who know how to play screwed over by Trolls, Idiots, and Retards in champion selection, sure you get the role you want its great, but then you get players who don't know how to play their role and fuck the entire team because they contribute nothing.

Lets look at this this way because I think its Funny someone recently taught me a bit of what (META Means) Most Effective Tactic Available so when your team sees a Akali Katarina mid and yet they don't take any CC at all, then the game gets thrown and they are Screaming in chat (Why are you Feeding) when the enemy team countered and you refused to take anything that contributes to the fight then you are the reason, another example is Yasuo with no team knock-ups around hi at all being played.

Do you ever wonder why a comp with these champions usually never worksNidalee Ezreal Lux Morgana MasterYi Yes it can win but something like this generally never works because you went Poke Comp and pretty fail at it too meanwhile the enemy team takes hard CC and just owns everyone going all in on fights they know they are going to win anyways.

Let alone what is really lame is when a Soraka carries the enemy team because no one can crowd control her and the only person who can hard carry is the Katarina on the enemy team yet she is the only counter and saves just for the kat to silence and its lost because she knows how to play and your support does nothing.

The Phoenix3/28/2016, 8:11:21 PM1 votes

i'd give u a chest but i'm punished ^_^

Linthe3/28/2016, 8:21:01 PM1 votes

Cool.. Actually a reasonably thought out and interesting post in this forum.

I agree with you about intentional feeding. In game it can be pretty obvious. But just looking at post game stats. Kinda hard.

And the Tribunal really SHOULD be brought back. Getting rid of it was a bad, BAD mistake. Human players CAN look at a series of games. I played a Lulu game over the weekend where we just got sCAnned by a Vayne giving up 2 double kills in a ff@20 game. But that was only one game.

And "trolling" is even harder to deal with than intentional feeding.. Just no way to handle it that I can think of. What to do about the guy who routinely bans champs that his teammates has in pick intent? The "excuse' will always be that the champ is op, doesnt want to face him etc..

Or anyone who ever picks Teemo.. WTH can you do about THAT??!!

Jaawn3/31/2016, 6:15:08 AM1 votes

Riot is already aware of how toxicity tends to spread (that is why it is called being "toxic" in the first place), but I think so far they have always had the stance that like "that's no excuse". They expect you to be reasonable and think to yourself "okay...I'm pissed...but if I troll this, it ruins the game for at least 4 other people and that's not fair".

Also, they have made some fairly recent improvements to the feeder detection stuff. I posted a thread (here) a couple months ago about an obvious feeder and they ended up being banned when someone at Riot looked into it. (Apparently, they already got flagged by one of the updates to the detection logic). If you see issues with it, they asked that you send in a ticket with screenshots so they can keep making it better. You should definitely do this if you run into intentional feeding and you think the system missed it.

Buldozer bre9/2/2016, 8:11:44 AM1 votes

RIOT IS THE CAUSE OF TOXICITY!!!!! RIOT ENCOURAGES TOXICITY. GOOD PLAYERS ARE BEING CONVERTED INTO TOXIC ONES BY PUTTING FEEDERS IN THEIR TEAM AND NOOBS. AND ON TOP OF THAT U (GOOD DECENT PLAYER) HAVE TO PLAY AS GOLD TEAM VS GOLD TEAM WHO HAS 2 PLATS IN IT. SO THE MATCHMAKING FUCKS THINGS UP AND IS THE CAUSE OF TOXICITY!!!!!! CHATS AND BANS WONT SOLVE ANYTHING!!! MATCHMAKING NEEDS TO BE ADJUSTED. NOT TO PLAY AS SOLO Q VS PREMADES, OR WITH BAD PLAYERS WHO BARELY KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME IN GOLD DIVISION, OR VS PLATS WHO SOMEHOW GET IN EVERY GOLD MATCH AND IMPACTING THE GAME SO MUCH, THAT U END UP LOSING NO MATTER WHAT!!!!