Boards›Player Behavior

Looking for clarification from a Mod on how all punishments are equal

Zodex·10/16/2018, 2:41:06 PM·1 votes·1,938 views

So full disclosure, I was given a chat restriction a couple days ago. This especially sucks, because I went through the entire season (roughly 800 games) without any punishment, and I honestly don't believe my punishment was justly deserved for the games mentioned (one game I was abrasive in trying to lead team to a win, but got 2 honors for it in the end. The other I was being berated by my team because my support was passively trolling me in game). Regardless, I was punished for not muting players and arguing back with them. In the end, a simple warning would have been enough to steer me back on the right path.

Obviously I lose my season rewards as a result here. And this is where my problem is. I agree with the fact that if you get punished and continue your poor behavior, you should not get rewards. However, I have a huge problem with the fact that I have zero chance to earn my rewards back based on the timing of the punishment. Someone who gets chat restricted in April and someone who gets chat restricted in October are NOT punished equally. Both commit the same offense, but because someone gets chat restricted in April, they have the time to redeem their honor level and still earn rewards. A person chat restricted in October has zero chance for redemption, and is guaranteed to lose season rewards.

My question is, how is this equal punishment? If I am guaranteed to lose my rewards for being chat restricted in the final hour of the season, then why isn't every person chat restricted throughout the entire season also guaranteed to lose rewards?

Let me put it in another perspective. 2 criminals both rob the same bank, one in April, one in October. They both steal $100,000. They are both charged with the exact same crime, by the same judge. The criminal who robs the bank in April is sentenced to 10 years with parole. The criminal who robs the bank in October is sentenced to 10 years without parole. Exact same crime committed, but are these the same sentences? One criminal is given the opportunity for redemption, the other is not.

I know that is an extreme comparison, but it illustrates my point. Just because I am chat restricted in October does not mean I should lose my chance at redemption. It also doesn't mean I should just be off the hook for that either. I should be placed at Honor level 1 for the next season, placing my rewards for the following season on the line if I don't improve. To me, that is what would be fair.

32 Comments

DrCyanide10/16/2018, 3:03:18 PM8 votes

I think your bank robbing analogy needs some correction.

  • Both robbers take the same amount.
  • Both charged with the same crime.
  • Both sentenced to 10 years in jail.
  • One Both get a chance at parole.
  • Due to the timing of their paroles, one will be able to attend a work Christmas party while the other will still be in jail.

People who get punished at the end of the season have always run the risk of not getting end of season rewards. The only difference this time around is not having a fixed date of "if I'm punished after this point I can't get the reward." It's far more dependent on your ability to play in a positive manner and earn Honors than ever before.

Voldymort10/16/2018, 3:01:48 PM5 votes

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/0a/0a2b76fd6d6ef6b4fe0abbff1b45d0469e4baad1f8576f08798b81cc6b1e4fb7.jpg

Umbral Regent10/16/2018, 3:05:44 PM5 votes

Someone who gets chat restricted in April and someone who gets chat restricted in October are NOT punished equally. Both commit the same offense, but because someone gets chat restricted in April, they have the time to redeem their honor level and still earn rewards. A person chat restricted in October has zero chance for redemption, and is guaranteed to lose season rewards.

This is assuming that both players reform and do so at the same rate. If a player reforms after getting punished in April, and doesn't get punished again, then they would have proven their reform and justly earned their end of season rewards. The player in October does not, by and large, have any less an opportunity to show reform.

(I've heard that it can take just a matter of weeks to reclimb a whole Honor Level, and with 4~ weeks left 'til season's end, I'd reckon that those who show resounding reform could certainly make it back in time.)

You're ignoring something that's kind of a lesser-known fact about the Honor System; your progress can be slowed or halted by valid reports. If you display negativity that doesn't warrant immediate punishment - passive-aggressive remarks, defeatist behavior, report rallying, unsportsmanlike conduct, etc. - reports made against you will still impact your Honor progress.

Now, let's look back at those players again; Let's maintain the assumption that both players are progressing at the same exact rate, but change one small parameter. Both players are also being low-key negative, and, while not getting punished, are not progressing quickly, if at all.

If that behavior persists throughout the season, then it is wholly possible for a player punished in April to not reclimb to Honor 2 before Season's end - and, yes, there have definitely been cases where players behave negatively enough to just be locked in Honor 1~ for way longer than most people would.

And, before you continue on that, in either case, four weeks doesn't seem realistic to regain Honor Level 2 - let me also remind you that prior to Honor 2.0, having an active punishment around a given date (Season's end, generally) would also result in the forfeiture of end-of-season rewards. So it's not like the scenario of "player punished earlier in the year can still get rewards/player punished later in the year can't" is actually even remotely new.

The big difference being that, with Honor Level involved, the rules around reward eligibility aren't arbitrary, players who get punished near the latter half of the year can still reclimb and earn their rewards back, and players punished earlier in the year can effectively screw themselves out of getting rewards if they don't shape up.

Let me put it in another perspective. 2 criminals both rob the same bank, one in April, one in October. They both steal $100,000. They are both charged with the exact same crime, by the same judge. The criminal who robs the bank in April is sentenced to 10 years with parole. The criminal who robs the bank in October is sentenced to 10 years without parole. Exact same crime committed, but are these the same sentences? One criminal is given the opportunity for redemption, the other is not.

See, this doesn't actually illustrate your point well, because you're deciding that the October case arbitrarily does not get parole. Parole in this case should be analogous to Honor Level 2, not end of season rewards, and on top of that, we're talking about a dynamic system while using fixed parameters. Your only variables in this case is the date of the offense and whether or not the criminal in question gets parole.

In League, it is much different, as you have several variables to account for. You have Type of offense, Date of offense, and Post-punishment behavior, to name three noteworthy ones. With that in mind, your comparison falls pretty flat.

Just because I am chat restricted in October does not mean I should lose my chance at redemption.

You don't lose your chance at redemption. You lose eligibility for end-of-season rewards. You can still redeem yourself, just that the timing of your redemption is probably going to be too late for you to get Ranked rewards.

I should be placed at Honor level 1 for the next season, placing my rewards for the following season on the line if I don't improve. To me, that is what would be fair.

But would you feel the immediate impact of your behavior if you didn't have to worry about it until next year? Because it would be far too easy to simply reclimb to Honor Level 2 from 1 at the start of a new season, when you don't have end-of-season rewards to worry about.

Though, of course that would be fair to you - you would be postponing your punishment. But, punishments are not fair. And they are felt when they are given, not a year after the fact.

ModThe Djinn10/16/2018, 3:19:37 PM3 votes

I mean, I can't speak for Riot, but this is my perspective:

The punishments are equal. The timing is just worse for you. It's the same way that hate speech earns a 14-day ban, which could make you miss a limited event or not based solely on when you get punished. The timing isn't the fault of the system.

DongerStruck10/16/2018, 2:54:17 PM2 votes

[deleted]

Faneseeker10/16/2018, 5:46:42 PM1 votes

Did you keep your cool for 800 games just to lose it in 1? I don't believe that. What led you to this is a trail of reports of players discomforted by your "Style". I could be wrong, in which case sucks dude you lost it in the end. IN THE END.

Telephone Booth10/17/2018, 12:31:36 AM1 votes

I don't really care about all that other fluff shit you said, but I do have to say; it is a bit weird that just the time of year you get punished affects whether you get rewards or not. Why did they do it like that? Is it like an incentive to keep people acting civil because usually end of season is when the toxicity ramps up because of desperate people trying to rank up? Its just an odd concept to make it matter more in the closing months of a season. I do hate the wording you chose though. "All punishments are equal"? Where'd you hear that? So sick of hearing about equality lol.