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Suspension system is rather silly

Vyycan··2 votes·663 views

Honestly, this 14+ day suspension thing is far beyond what normally should be given to for someone being toxic. I've found that 5-10 day's works more than 14, as it generally just means you give up playing after a time, or make a smurf account and ruin the community some more.

Now before I get into why this should be changed, I already know 90% of you are going to go "You're toxic well deserved" when i'm 100% sure none of you actually play or in general actually formulate an opinion of your own, that being said, save it for another board.

Ad-hominem aside let's begin. First off this system needs to be changed, leave buster was a fine enough thing, great, but this new "Chat suspension" ruins the concept of playing a game. Now with being suspended in chat you're forced to wait for chances to speak, this can detriment your team hard. Yes, it slows down toxic people, but it also ruins a chance to actually coordinate properly. Then again, Riot's never been one to think before it acts. Onto the 14+ day suspension thing, that's absurd. I know most of you are used it, and haven't had a chance to play a game with a logical report/punishment system, but where I come from this isn't logical, at all. This generally makes it so that, once more, you give up and leave, regardless of how toxic you might have been or otherwise, it defeats the purpose of a punishment. 14 days is far too much, and after such a perma ban? Now that's just as silly.

In my honest opinion it should go like this

1 day Suspension 5 Days 10 Days 15 Days 30 Days Perma Ban.

This system would work far better than just chat banning people and forcing the team to work on a 4v5 with ping spams. It also eliminates some of the silly jumps that the ban system itself likes to push forward into. That being said, I find this system works better than what we have, but these are just opinions

I now await this toxic community to try and defeat this with grade 6 spelling and logic.

32 Comments

Colgate Gator11 votes

{quoted}

I now await this toxic community to try and defeat this with grade 6 spelling and logic.

You have convinced me you are a mature person who can be discuss things objectively. Riot please unban him.

Vyycan2 votes

:^) Yes my child find the one line that defeats the whole thing, your grade 6 logic is flowing into my brain.

Angrychickén3 votes

The ironic thing is that you missed a comma in your response.

I wouldn't so high and mighty about your intelligence.

ModPrandine5 votes

Yes chat restrictions hinder chat communications but it does that to encourage people to use the chat for actual relevant game stuff and not use it to rage and flame at others constantly. Doing that is what warranted a chat restriction in the first place.

For the 14day ban it's meant to serve as the final warning to get you to either shape up or ship out after the chat restrictions didnt work. For gameplay related offenses this is the first punishment received and serves the same purpose as mentioned earlier.

While one could argue that there should be an additional time ban before or after 14 days keep in mind that Riot has data that says the further along someone is in the penalty ladder the less likely they are to reform. Take from that what you will.

Vyycan1 votes

I will argue that the data shown didn't come from a reliable source of actual information, rather just a poll, which never proves anything. I want to argue this more but my brain hurts, as this community is honestly beyond saving in terms of both cogitative thought and free thinking.

Chermorg4 votes

A "poll"?

Riot can directly measure that data like so:

If (account A)=chat.restriction(10 games)

Notify if account A is punished again.

Likewise for every other punishment tier. Basically, by measuring how many of the people that reach a certain tier are punished again, Riot can directly gather data on people that reform at each tier.

How is that not a "reliable source of actual information", and especially how is that a poll?

Bettnachleger1 votes

If (account A)=chat.restriction(10 games)

Notify if account A is punished again.

That statemant doesn't make sense ;D It rather would be something like this:

If (chat.restriction(accountX))

Notify if account X is punished again.

But still, that doesn't make sense, because they can just query theire database.

ModPrandine3 votes

{quoted}

I will argue that the data shown didn't come from a reliable source of actual information, rather just a poll, which never proves anything. I want to argue this more but my brain hurts, as this community is honestly beyond saving in terms of both cogitative thought and free thinking.

I don't recall there ever being a poll on the subject, so please link me to it if you can. Also just fyi, insulting peoples intelligence is a quick way to show that you've lost the argument.

archerno12 votes

How did you "find out" that? Do you own a video game in which u used that system to reform your players?

Vyycan2 votes

Not sure what you mean, if you're referring to my idea of the ban it generally comes from how I deal with people on forum boards and otherwise chat systems, so far I've seen a few games utilize this system. Reforming players takes time, but bad matches are bad matches, and one person ruining people's experience and said person speaking out about it IE "Being toxic" shouldn't be as harshly criminalized as the other.

archerno13 votes

{quoted}

Not sure what you mean, if you're referring to my idea of the ban it generally comes from how I deal with people on forum boards and otherwise chat systems, so far I've seen a few games utilize this system. Reforming players takes time, but bad matches are bad matches, and one person ruining people's experience and said person speaking out about it IE "Being toxic" shouldn't be as harshly criminalized as the other.

You said

I've found that 5-10 day's works more than 14

Have u tested it on large population? How did u find out that?

Vyycan1 votes

I personally have not, but I've seen it work fine on other games. I am not in any position to test it, so I will simply use my own given knowledge of this.

Trying to give a good example here to defend this, what's the true point of a chat ban?

Great, you get into a game just fine, but not you cant communicate to your team, you're dead weight unless you're a solo carry, in which case you're already just a smurf. So that doesn't work.

Instead, just cut that out, ban you for a day or so, and let you come back when you've had a time to cool off. On a large population this would work just fine. I've seen it done.

archerno12 votes

{quoted}

I personally have not, but I've seen it work fine on other games. I am not in any position to test it, so I will simply use my own given knowledge of this.

Trying to give a good example here to defend this, what's the true point of a chat ban?

Great, you get into a game just fine, but not you cant communicate to your team, you're dead weight unless you're a solo carry, in which case you're already just a smurf. So that doesn't work.

Instead, just cut that out, ban you for a day or so, and let you come back when you've had a time to cool off. On a large population this would work just fine. I've seen it done.

WHat other games? Do those games have this huge population? How do you know it works there? Were u administrator? League had several different punishment systems. Current one is best so far. You keep saying "i have seen it". Can u provide any actual evidence? Cause if we go by "i have seen it, believe me" everyone can do it.

Vyycan1 votes

Do explain to me why the current one is the best so far? I've seen Smite use it fine, until that changed. Several forum groups use it, EVE used it, many other MMO's used it.

Please give me a decent explanation as to why you think this one is the current 'best one'

Also do try and use proper grammar.

archerno12 votes

{quoted}

Do explain to me why the current one is the best so far? I've seen Smite use it fine, until that changed. Several forum groups use it, EVE used it, many other MMO's used it.

Please give me a decent explanation as to why you think this one is the current 'best one'

Also do try and use proper grammar.

Because its effective system for fighting against toxic people. Mentioning someones grammar is sure way to show that you lost argument.

Vyycan2 votes

No true, your grammar is much to be desired and it's sometimes hard to understand you. That's just me giving some constructive criticism. Beyond that note, you've not actually provided me with a reason or example as to how the system Riot currently uses is any better than what I said, besides "It just works"

:^) I'm sure English isn't your first language but please, if you're going to reply to an English thread, do so with the same level of English as the other, if you can.

archerno12 votes

{quoted}

No true, your grammar is much to be desired and it's sometimes hard to understand you. That's just me giving some constructive criticism. Beyond that note, you've not actually provided me with a reason or example as to how the system Riot currently uses is any better than what I said, besides "It just works"

:^) I'm sure English isn't your first language but please, if you're going to reply to an English thread, do so with the same level of English as the other, if you can.

Nah, i will reply with any grammar i want. If you dont like it, well, its your problem. It works because every day you see toxic people whining here how they got banned and how they are "leaving this game" after posting their chat log which is full of toxicity, trying to blame it on "teammates playing bad" and stuff like that. Even if 1/10 people that get banned leave, its still worth.

Vyycan1 votes

Well, if that's your choice I will not pay much attention to you. Your statement also proves my point, infect it just solidifies it.

1/10 people leaving means your lose members of the community, who may or may not have been the problem.

9/10 people could have been the problem, IE, Feeding, being useless or all around just smurfing. So that 1 person who was upset about it, is not banned for voicing that he was upset. Now you lose a decent member of the community and are stuck with 9 others, which it looks like this forum is full of them, who simply go "Lmao you're toxic get bent kid uninstall the game"

Ad hominem sadly, but you seem to be one of them, at least by the way you're speaking and lack of understanding of the point I was trying to make, do read back what I posted and return to me when you have an argument to defend Riots report system, perhaps then we can actually talk about it, rather than whatever you've been saying.

archerno12 votes

{quoted}

Well, if that's your choice I will not pay much attention to you. Your statement also proves my point, infect it just solidifies it.

1/10 people leaving means your lose members of the community, who may or may not have been the problem.

9/10 people could have been the problem, IE, Feeding, being useless or all around just smurfing. So that 1 person who was upset about it, is not banned for voicing that he was upset. Now you lose a decent member of the community and are stuck with 9 others, which it looks like this forum is full of them, who simply go "Lmao you're toxic get bent kid uninstall the game"

Ad hominem sadly, but you seem to be one of them, at least by the way you're speaking and lack of understanding of the point I was trying to make, do read back what I posted and return to me when you have an argument to defend Riots report system, perhaps then we can actually talk about it, rather than whatever you've been saying.

They are unwanted members of community if they are consistently breaking rules. Its not a loss. Dont break the rules and everything will be fine. Its that simple. Or maybe its too complicated for you to understand due my poor grammar.

Vyycan1 votes

That's an opinion, not a fact, return to me with facts.

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

That's an opinion, not a fact, return to me with facts.

When you provide some facts i will.

Vyycan1 votes

I mean, I tried to an extent. But you didn't really bring anything to the table, besides opinions. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

I mean, I tried to an extent. But you didn't really bring anything to the table, besides opinions. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Your whole thread is based on opinions that you tried to camouflage. Instead of saying "in my opinion 5-10 days ban would be sufficient" you presented it as "i found out that 5-10 bans work better". And all of that is based on your experience from far inferior games like Smite or Eve or whatever MMO you were mentioning. League had a different system in the past where it first gave a lot of chat restrictions, then 7 days ban, then 14... and it never worked. People didnt start caring and didnt start paying attention to rules until Riot committed to perma bans. This is system thats used now and this is system that wont be changed. Those that dont like it are free to leave.

Chermorg4 votes

You brought a bunch of vague "i have experience" without ever providing evidence of your experience. You seem to keep conflating your opinions with experience.

I can guarantee you whatever experience/opinions/facts you think you have, the staff at Riot, and quite likely multiple people on these boards have more of.

Beas7ie1 votes

{quoted}

Because its effective system for fighting against toxic people. Mentioning someones grammar is sure way to show that you lost argument.

Neutral party here. I'm just gonna butt in and say that I, and many others can be much more difficult to persuade to your side if you use atrocious grammar and spelling.

EvilDustMan2 votes

{quoted}

I now await this toxic community to try and defeat this with grade 6 spelling and logic.

Complains about ad-hominem. I laughed.

Vyycan1 votes

The comments in this just go to show the community is both inept and sadly lost. Oh well.

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

So the gist I gather is you want to remove chat restrictions, and add two extra steps to the punishment progression. It seems somewhat reasonable but what would it really change? Here are points I argue for both cases.

Chat restrictions: As already mentioned, the idea is to make people think more carefully on how to use the chat bar. Basically a "Is this necessary to say?" idea. It is meant to try and reteach the proper way to use the chat. The current system does need maybe a slight change, but I'll discuss that more after the next bit.

Multi Ban: There are more steps in this system but one could also say it is less forgiving. The reason why is my first penalty is a 1 day/24 hour ban. Which means I can't so anything with the game unless I make/buy a new account. Course no guarantee they will. Then after that game I now get a longer and longer ban, each one of course being an opportunity to make or play a smurf. Then we hit 15 day and then a 30. Why do these two exist though? You are saying a 14 day is bad so why have 2 tiers with longer times? This is not meant to be a condescending question, but out of need of understanding why they are there.

Bad day: The current system, and yours I imagine, do not ban for a single bad day/game unless; 1. severity, or 2. Already have been punished and closer monitoring. I may be incorrect, basing my stuff off what have read, but even after a 10 game chat restrict; you still get multiple strikes before a 25 game chat restrict hits, once again may vary with severity. Same with 14 day to perma. I would maybe like to see more leeway between the final 2 steps.

Reform: Both offer chances at reform, one just forces you to take more breaks, unless you make a new account. Current one allows you to step down the punishment ladder after about 3 months of playing good games (not a magic number, may vary depending on how many games played at a time.). Unless I missed something would yours basically work the same way?

Vyycan1 votes

Sorry I didn't get back to you in time, been busy. But yes, you make a fair point. But the main hate for this system is the chat restriction thing.

The main problem I have with the system, is not so much the banning, regardless of how hard they hand out 14 day bans. But the main focus is the chat restriction.

This is mostly due to the fact it makes players, well, bad. Think of it like this, you get into a game, and you have the jungler on the map, you ping the map but have no idea how to tell them watch out without just spamming the pings, which, gets you ignored and muted because this community has the attention span of a nine year old goat with the flu.

Now, able to talk, it's far too late, the jungler came in, ganked, killed three of you because Lee Sin is broken beyond fizz, and now you get mass reported by a bunch of angry children who think because you didn't call missing enough times, or type in the chat, you're not the fault of our stars.

Now you sit there, having been mass reported, and because this system has the judgment skills of a pre teen on pop rocks, enjoy your 25 days of no talking. So what did this accomplish? Sure you can't "be toxic" (As if being a constructive criticizer on this game is labeled as toxic) but now what? You can't even defend your own pings, or call for help, you have a limited chat, which if anyone uses it, should use it all game to ping, talk, and coordinate, now all you can do is spam pings and hope you're not muted and reported.

This is a flawed system. This is why I said, just give the bans, rather than throw us into games with no voice, and hope the game goes well enough that they think you're reformed enough to talk again.

TrulyBland1 votes

In my honest opinion it should go like this 1 day Suspension 5 Days 10 Days 15 Days 30 Days Perma Ban.

It used to be 3-day, 7-day, 14-day. They removed the lower tiers because they had virtually no effect. The ones below 7 days are fairly obvious in this regard... if somebody only plays on the weekends, a 3-day or 5-day ban is as good as a 2-day ban. Either way: Bans over times lower than 14 days have been tested and they didn't work. It's the same thing as with permanent mutes... it sounds like a good idea on paper (which is why Riot tried it out in the first place), but it simply fails in practice.

Bans longer than 14 day bans have, strictly speaking, not been tried out, but with their findings on people trying to reform after being permabanned, I feel like that would probably be equally ineffective.

I disagree on removing chat bans. I was sceptical about them at first, but they ultimately don't limit chat too much, given that pings are a suitable replacement in most situations, and they sort of "directly" punish you while in-game for wasting the few messages you do get for flaming others.

Vyycan1 votes

Considering if you ping too much you'll get reported and called "Toxic" on the forums, seeing as this community has a hard on for calling anyone who criticizes their way of play a "toxic shithead"

And no, the chatban is not a good system, even Dota has a proper system for punishing people and it works fine, this only ruins normal games and tends to piss everyone off. Unlike most of this community I don't swallow anything the devs shove my down my throat and downvote anyone who has a different opinion on it.

Also the lower bans were during the Tribunal, which, was a good system, this new system literally just scans for words and you're banned if said word comes up, regardless of the context used

"This Leesin is fucking amazing" saying "Fucking" will get me banned or warned due to it, just because it was there, this game is so far out of date with the chat ban system and this automated system that it's starting to give me a headache. Maybe if they stopped ripping off other MOBA's they might be able to fix these easy to solve problems.

TrulyBland1 votes

Four paragraphs... and you haven't used a single actual argument. You've made claims, attacked strawmen, threw out some ad hominems and basically declared your own lack of understanding of how the system actually works.

Claims:

And no, the chatban is not a good system, even Dota has a proper system for punishing people and it works fine, this only ruins normal games and tends to piss everyone off

Strawman:

Considering if you ping too much you'll get reported and called "Toxic" on the forums, seeing as this community has a hard on for calling anyone who criticizes their way of play a "toxic shithead"

Strawman with ad hominem:

Unlike most of this community I don't swallow anything the devs shove my down my throat and downvote anyone who has a different opinion on it.

Misunderstanding the system (aka what you said here is simply false):

Also the lower bans were during the Tribunal, which, was a good system, this new system literally just scans for words and you're banned if said word comes up, regardless of the context used

"This Leesin is fucking amazing" saying "Fucking" will get me banned or warned due to it, just because it was there, this game is so far out of date with the chat ban system and this automated system that it's starting to give me a headache.

And ad hominem:

Maybe if they stopped ripping off other MOBA's they might be able to fix these easy to solve problems.

You've done nothing to actually address what I've said and have brought up no real points of your own. What exactly do you expect from this discussion/thread?

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