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With the Nunu "Support" Debate going on I decided to talk about what is "Meta" and "Trolling"

Skorch··4 votes·2,175 views

To understand "The Meta" we must understand "Standard Lanes"

Standard Lanes: Solo Top (Usually somewhere between a tank/fighter) Solo Jungler (Usually either an assassin or a bruiser/diver) Solo Mid (Usually either a Mage or Assassin) ADC Bot (Almost always a Marksman) Support Bot (Either a Utility/CC Mage or a CC Tank [and recently burst mages])

Meta: Following the standard lanes, with current known good picks, or champions you are really confident on.

Off-Meta: Following the standard lanes, with either currently bad picks, or a strange champion for that position but may still work.

Trolling: Not following standard lanes, or picking a champion that CAN NOT work in the lane you take them... without proper co-operation from teammates.

Essentially if its DRASTICALLY different, but your teammates are fine with it its not trolling. But in the Nunu "Supports" case he WAS trolling.

Apparently he basically told his ADC "Take a safe pick im taking smite and counter jungling" and didnt hear objections. It was also the only support strat he did. THIS IS TROLLING AS HIS TEAMMATES DIDNT WANT NON-STANDARD LANES. Thus putting them at a disadvantage, ESPECIALLY if the ADC isnt used and isnt prepared to 1v2.

However say i duod with a friend who went Top. And i get into game and say: "Hey I have a plan. Im duoing with this top, hes going Darius, and im going Blitzcrank. ADC can you pick a safe champion so we can 2v1 top, get first turret, then I'll roam? Jungle you shouldnt really have to worry about top unless you want that First turret gold too, and can you help out our ADC as much as you can?" And if they agree we went non-standard lanes without trolling.

The Nunu example WAS him trolling, although he may have not meant to, he ended up forcing his teammates into a severely off-meta to the point of being troll tactic and as people say, "Held his team hostage"

21 Comments

Breaku4 votes

By your logic, the first players to take adc out of midlane and into botlane should have been considered trolls

Skorch1 votes

Was Mid duo back then? if not then there was still the 1/1/1/2 lane that people knew, just off meta picks (i started in season 4 so i cant say i was there if there WAS duo mid)

And on top of that how do you know those people didnt coordinate with their team? It most likely started (or at least got popularized) By the pros who DEFINITELY coordinated with their team and were prepared for it.

Nothing is a troll if your team agrees, i highly doubt the first bot lane adcs all told their team "I am going bot lane and 1 person is coming with me or im inting"

Breaku3 votes

No, mid was solo.

A majority of games didn't have a jungler, so it was usually 2/1/2

Skorch1 votes

Then the lanes were still Standard meaning according to my descriptions it would be considered "Off-Meta" but not "Troll"

deathgod53 votes

I have been playing long enough to tell you that no, this came with rage. You got alot of players who went bot lane adc and got into huge fights(it would be considered high level trolling by a lot of people). People inted and called you a noob if you went adc on the botlane, because you were obviously trying to lose. the same thing happend if you went off meta and jungled with a champ that wasn't considered viable.

The same thing happend with support annie on the bot lane and even evelynn overall. It is the idea that the meta is supposed to be a certain thing that everybody had to agree with that usually held people back from trying new and awesome things.

The reason they didn't get banned was because, no matter how much I hate to admit it, the tribunal stopped the false report bans around off meta picks. You can say about that old system what you wanted, but when the roaming singed or nunu came by on this system, they checked what their scores and participation levels were like and if they weren't bad, they were pronounced innocent.

Meta is what people consider viable, Off meta is what people consider not viable, trolling is what people do when they intentionally try to lose. Support roaming nunu is off meta.

Skorch4 votes

But he wasnt support roaming nunu. He SAID he was, but (not me someone who told me he checked the guys twitch as he was linking) he apparently just went second jungle, told his ADC to pick a safe ADC, and either dodged or bullied his team when they didnt agree with his strat.

I have done my fair share of off meta picks, and as long as i cooperate with my team, and dont feed my ass off. I usually dont get flamed.

And with the ADC bot is troll thing, and even though i wasnt there. There are shitty people who think off meta things are troll, and report off meta things. But i bet those ADCs didnt get punished, at least not harshly. Trolls get punished. And the Nunu and Singed cases (according to my posts descriptions) were troll.

FighterA2362 votes

Trolling is: In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.[wiki]

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion. [urban dictionary].

Troll pick is a pick that wants to make ANGRY his teammates. That's it, Sherlock.

Oleandervine1 votes

The current meta is the 1/1/2+1 Jungle. Anything that isn't this format, is by definition off-meta. So 2/1/2, or 1/2/2, or 1/1/1+2 Jungle, or any other format is off-meta and not trolling. Trolling is deliberate attempts to ruin the game for people. This includes verbal abuse, intentionally feeding, and assisting the enemy team. This does not include an off meta format, nor does it include your ADC getting pissed off because he has to farm under the tower while your Nunu kills all the dragons for your team to benefit from.

Skorch1 votes

He had a 50% report rate from not only adcs but other people on his team too... I think he is doing SOMETHING wrong, that is a lot of angry people.

I personally have done a lot of off-meta things, and usually i dont get reported for them. I try to explain what im doing and be polite. AND I ALSO DONT FORCE IT.

Aptest1 votes

I'll write more later when i am home. I do not accept your idea of what trolling is. trolling is playing with the explicit intent of making your allies annoyed and/or angry and/or upset. if the intent is not to annoy your allies but rather to do do something differently than it is not trolling even if they are annoyed as a consequence.

I.E,

going top with the support and power farming the lane = not trolling. sueciding to the enemy tower and giving the enemy lane a bunch of kills = trolling.

Skorch2 votes

I would say you are intending to piss off you allys if you get into a game and say. "Im doing something different, deal with it" Its kind of a dick move, not being "innovative"

Aptest1 votes

{quoted}

I would say you are intending to piss off you allys if you get into a game and say. "Im doing something different, deal with it" Its kind of a dick move, not being "innovative"

but then there's basically no way out. the guy who's doing top lane soraka in my game: he's either being a dick for talking, or being a douch for not communicating beforehand.

there's no outs with your approach, so it will always boil down to "you're always guilty, and if(once) the reports pile up there's always a justified reason to ban you". obviously that's a wrong approach.

Skorch2 votes

There is a way to be off-meta without just saying "Deal with it."

Aptest1 votes

{quoted}

There is a way to be off-meta without just saying "Deal with it."

how? please don't say "convince your team" this is assumed to be an impossibility.

Skorch1 votes

You dont even have to convince your team, just explain it. And if its something like soraka top that only affects you lane then thats fine. But in this situation he was trying to enforce OTHER PEOPLES picks not just his.

Aptest1 votes

In what way is he attempting to force other people's picks?

Skorch1 votes

Who would give his team "recommended picks" but the issue with it is it isnt really a recommendation. Since the ADC IS 1v2ing his off meta pick is DIRECTLY affecting what that other person has to pick. If they dont pick something safe they are screwed.

Aptest1 votes

Why is that a problem ? Why is this punishable ?

I mean it's the same as when the jungle and mid both go assassins and someone says "top tank" or "sup tank" in chat. it's the same as when there's a yasuo on your team so you know you've got to gank his lane 24/7. this is a team game and people have to (= are forced) to adapt to each other's picks or suffer some consequence. that is not a toxic issue that needs to be resolved that is a core property of the game.

Aptest1 votes

how is he trying to force other people's picks?

please differentiate: the adc having to go with cait over jinx because the sup is going to be absent is not the sup trying to force the adc to not play jinx.

I feel you are conflating intent with effect. just because someone is impacted by you, it does not mean you are doing something deliberately to harm them.

Poske1 votes

I reached master tier with yasuo ADC XD Being a midlane main

Whats meta?

Not but seriously people think that I am trolling 50% of time when I go yas BOT

SO fk you all meta sheeples who have 0 game knowledge

Tyren2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7MEZy0ss,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-02-28T15:20:59.318+0000)

I reached master tier with yasuo ADC XD Being a midlane main

Whats meta?

Not but seriously people think that I am trolling 50% of time when I go yas BOT

SO fk you all meta sheeples who have 0 game knowledge

Playing champs in different roles, I think is good for the game. For example Nautilus was a jungler, then went to the support role, then now he's a top pick pick for top lane right behind Maokai .

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