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I think this is the best way to get rid of toxic players

Thorguy··10 votes·2,064 views

So, I was talking to riot support through a support ticket, and we were talking about how to truly get rid of toxic players. We came to the idea to give permanent chat bans over perm account bans. of course this would apply to certain cases, ex: if a player just dc's a lot or has an int list this wouldn't apply because it wouldn't make a change. They would just get mad and troll. For simple toxic player's a perm chat ban would truly help a lot more. When a player gets banned, often the first thing they do is make another account and continue to harass other players. I don't think there is a ip ban, so infinite accounts could be made. it's an endless cycle and doesn't really help too much. With just a permchat ban, they just have to deal with what the situation is, but can still play, and of course if they get reported for trolling ingame they could get their account banned. During the past few months I have just seen the community acting so bad, I can hardly get in a game without some guy just trying to ruin other peoples days, rather if it is intentional or they are just having a bad day themselves. I think this reform would help the community a lot. If you agree please try to get this out, it only takes a second of your time and who knows? maybe in a year this game will have a completely different community.

41 Comments

Krazyninja0245 votes

I feel as this would be a huge positive change to the LoL community. Let's get one thing straight, League has a toxic community, and it's gonna stay that way for a long time. By giving Permachat bans instead of Permanent account bans it could greatly reduce the toxicity in the community by making the toxic players have to deal with the situation in a different way than just taking it out on fellow teamates and/or opponents. So I would greatly appreciate this change to League, as I have been on the receiving end of a toxic players rampage.

Deep Terror Nami5 votes

They used to do this, but it didn't really work out. Players would rack up hundreds or thousands of chat restrictions (effectively having it permanently). Riot's policy is one of reform, and if the punishment doesn't get any worse but they also don't mind it then they have no incentive to improve.

Am I saying the 4-tier punishment system cannot be improved in regards to chat offenses? Not at all, I think there are definitely ways to promote reform without doling out too harsh penalties. If I had any input, I might say an extra step or two of temporary account bans for minor chat offenses only could do a lot of good, but it must also be accompanied by a method of educating the player on what they are doing wrong.

Kürama2 votes

I got it!!!!!

  • 10 game chat restriction
  • 25 game chat restriction
  • 50 game chat restriction
  • 2 week ban
  • 1 month ban
  • Permanent ban
  • IP ban
  • Hardware ban
TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

What does a hardware ban do?

Kürama1 votes

Bans the hardware of the device. Basically, the player wouldn't be able to utilize that particular device to play anymore.

Thorguy2 votes

Ip bans don't really work, unless u want toxic guy's younger brother, older brother, sister, dad, mom, and grandma to be banned

Spicy Rice1 votes

Pretty much this.

Ip bans are stupid.

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

Or he could restart his router and get a new IP nowadays. We don't live in 2005 where IPs are static.

NightmareAmazoX4 votes

#bringbacktyler1

Thorguy1 votes

yee

Thorguy2 votes

Please, if you don't agree tell me why.

Cyndercat1 votes

I cant see this having as positive an effect as you anticipate. These people are still going to have the same attitude whether they can speak or not. I can see them just taking their anger out another way. If they cant rage in chat they will just start trolling or spam pinging their teammates. I dont have any faith in the automated system to deal with these behaviors consistently anymore so I think it would result in an overall worse situation on the whole.

Only the threat of never being able to play league again would give them enough incentive to not rage if they had the chance.

The reason I think this is because players dont value the ability to chat highly enough to be motivated to change their behavior. I could be wrong ofc and I do want to see more improvements to the punishment system, but they need to fix how the system detects behavior and consistently apply punishments first.

Thorguy1 votes

Honestly doubt just because they are chat banned they would troll. Wouldn't they just do it banned or not?

Spicy Rice1 votes

Not necessarily. I know a lot of my friends use chat to vent frustration. When that doesn't work, they troll just to feel some relief.

I personally feel that having increasing ban times (1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 2 months, etc) would be better than what we have.

If you add that along with telling players how much they've spent on their account, it might work as a deterrent

nerak232 votes

Please, if you don't agree tell me why.

There are many reasons why a permanent chat ban Does Not really work.

One thing comes to mind in either case, (perma ban or perma chat ban) In both cases players can and have used other ways to disrupt game and the boards :)

Last time I checked 'chat-banned' players still have a # of comments they can make, I have seen many players abuse and record this. Sorry Just ban those people who blatantly break the rules and figure out how to moderate them sooner on new accounts and start over. Do it quick and Do it loud on this section and every where players can see it....so others understand they can't do the same and get away with it.

Very hard to do but not impossible :) I'd be very interested in your messages to Riot support that you spoke of in OS... Can you post them???

Of course, please delete the name of the person you talked to.

nerak232 votes

I think the best medium is to ban toxic players from chatting rather than account bans. They still get to play the game but don't have their medium to vent at teammates or opponents.

Except this does Not work.. If You break the rules, deal with it.

Stop trying to advocate for a way to come back ! The Rules are very clear! If you break them then you get punished. No Different then Real Life !

Everyone need to stop BULLING others and accept that Rules are Rules, when you get out IRL, You will learn the hard way, so learn it now...People speak out and tell everyone...NO More picking on others even in defense! Any one who may know me understands I will never stand for this and it is time others speak out!

Thorguy1 votes

That literally solves nothing, can you read? we aren't trying to give ppl another chance, we are getting the community less toxic, It's not better for them to get banned instead of muted because the community will literally be the same. Not sure why you brought the topic or irl and you have to learn life skills, you kinda sound dumb.

Dn561 votes

This is true. I sincerely believe in this perspective on how League of Legends should be like. Of course they would have to also add a way to get reformed so that they don't use they're lack of communication as an excuse to cause more trouble. Otherwise I fully agree. Add a way to get sincerely reformed so they might have something to look forward to if they stay good on chat ban.

Alpha Samsuni1 votes

^ I believe Riot tried the perma chat ban and found that the toxic players resorted to other means like inting or spamming pings instead of flaming.

Dn561 votes

I know this. I'm saying they need to find a way out of the perma chat so that the toxic players could have something to try and earn by being a good player again.

Alpha Samsuni1 votes

ye I wasn't really responding to you, but rather adding but yea

Thorguy1 votes

not in the same topic, but I also think their should be a ping mute or a limit or some restriction, also I usually don't see a lot of toxic people just troll, they are usually just mad and trying to win, even so having a guy that can int and harass is even worse.

PlanetWarwick1 votes

No. it couldn't help since a bad game as singed and a singed trolling is the same

Thorguy1 votes

what

PlanetWarwick1 votes

singed dies alot no matter what

Only Play Darius1 votes

I don't think they want to do this because they don't want one team to have a disadvantage over the other because some of their players can't communicate

Cavemantero2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=759RVdJN,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-12-17T07:25:16.363+0000)

I don't think they want to do this because they don't want one team to have a disadvantage over the other because some of their players can't communicate

Its more of an advantage to NOT communicate with a toxic player. They can still use pings and the like. Any coordinated team is going to use voice chat.

Only Play Darius1 votes

Macro level strategies, like "You guys wait at baron, i'm going to splitpush bot and start it if you see them come for me" cannot really be communicated through pings, you need chat. Not everyone wants to get on voice chat

Cavemantero1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=759RVdJN,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2016-12-18T04:18:12.370+0000)

Macro level strategies, like "You guys wait at baron, i'm going to splitpush bot and start it if you see them come for me" cannot really be communicated through pings, you need chat. Not everyone wants to get on voice chat

Except if a toxi is the leader making that call then you lost anyways. They should be able to see chat but not be able to chat.

Thorguy1 votes

You don't need to tell other players how to play, they will catch on. If ur toxic, you wouldn't be helping anything either.

nerak231 votes

Ip bans don't really work, unless u want toxic guy's younger brother, older brother, sister, dad, mom, and grandma to be banned

LOL Yeah Go with that ;)

Thorguy1 votes

Yee

Z Statistic1 votes

I would recommend a Stoicism approach to dealing with toxicity. I have seen what happens when a community is policed too much; it becomes bland and stale because all the people who make it lively quit and the people who agree to the conditions are boring as shit. League is not quite there yet, but it is closer than last year.

Reputation is usually a good system, but because of the scope of the playerbase, Riot would have to be creative.

Personally, I think giving an instant, in-game notification that someone has muted or blocked you might help a bit. If Lyte's stats are correct, the overwhelming majority of negative behavior is just someone acting out of character for whatever reason and they are normally good individuals. Thus, notifying these people the second they are muted may give them a nice smack to say, "you're being a douche; stop it."

For reputation, perhaps you have a stat that 'heals' every day and reports bring it down. When queueing with people, you can see some color codings that are essentially badges of shame or even honor. Perhaps games played without getting reported (bonus for consecutive) would also be good with more weight on them.

Honestly, I think the best thing that Riot can do is to stop babying the community and treat its players like adults. 90% of them are in college after all. If it is incredibly easy to depersonalize to allow you to be more direct, aggressive, and assertive over the internet, then it should also be easy to depersonalize and shrug off insults. NPC insults at you don't bother you, right? Why should a human's? Some NPCs can REALLY berate you in games. Despite Riot's intentions, this babying has allowed, not prevented, a bunch of the report-wielding idiocy I see in games. It is a form of power because at some level, people are afraid of being banned for their words that are more or less harmless.

I bet if Riot lied and didn't change their policies on behavior but merely said that they would no longer be policing and instead not even consider reports that the player did not use mute or try to deal with like an adult personally, the community would change for the positive. People would stop being as afraid and people would start using the mute button instead of threatening reports.

Cavemantero1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Z Statistic,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=759RVdJN,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-12-18T04:26:28.574+0000)

I would recommend a Stoicism approach to dealing with toxicity. I have seen what happens when a community is policed too much; it becomes bland and stale because all the people who make it lively quit and the people who agree to the conditions are boring as shit. League is not quite there yet, but it is closer than last year.

Reputation is usually a good system, but because of the scope of the playerbase, Riot would have to be creative.

Personally, I think giving an instant, in-game notification that someone has muted or blocked you might help a bit. If Lyte's stats are correct, the overwhelming majority of negative behavior is just someone acting out of character for whatever reason and they are normally good individuals. Thus, notifying these people the second they are muted may give them a nice smack to say, "you're being a douche; stop it."

For reputation, perhaps you have a stat that 'heals' every day and reports bring it down. When queueing with people, you can see some color codings that are essentially badges of shame or even honor. Perhaps games played without getting reported (bonus for consecutive) would also be good with more weight on them.

Honestly, I think the best thing that Riot can do is to stop babying the community and treat its players like adults. 90% of them are in college after all. If it is incredibly easy to depersonalize to allow you to be more direct, aggressive, and assertive over the internet, then it should also be easy to depersonalize and shrug off insults. NPC insults at you don't bother you, right? Why should a human's? Some NPCs can REALLY berate you in games. Despite Riot's intentions, this babying has allowed, not prevented, a bunch of the report-wielding idiocy I see in games. It is a form of power because at some level, people are afraid of being banned for their words that are more or less harmless.

I bet if Riot lied and didn't change their policies on behavior but merely said that they would no longer be policing and instead not even consider reports that the player did not use mute or try to deal with like an adult personally, the community would change for the positive. People would stop being as afraid and people would start using the mute button instead of threatening reports.

Except a lot of people who play this game AREN'T adults. Parenting isn't riots job. Dealing with toxic players is because they cost riot money. When enough players get sick of it they leave which means less money. Its simple. I think the best medium is to ban toxic players from chatting rather than account bans. They still get to play the game but don't have their medium to vent at teammates or opponents.

Z Statistic1 votes

If it were about money, Riot would be doing a LOT of things we shit on EA and Nintendo for. They are not concerned with maximizing profit. They are concerned with fun and principles. So, in that spirit, exactly. Riot isn't your mom and dad. They aren't going to hold your hand. Therefore, they should just make the mean person disappear.

I mean, this is like saying TF2 should be a RTS because all the people who like SC2 more than TF2 will gravitate to the next expansion instead of buy hats.

People are going to leave or stay regardless of who you try to keep or keep out. The question is not how do you minimize these numbers. It is what kind of community do you wish to foster. Riot should be fostering a community that doesn't worry about offending people because people don't give a shit but they don't tolerate cheaters and want that yapping idiot to shut up so they can play. The latter is already in place, but the former is not.

nerak231 votes

I would recommend a Stoicism approach to dealing with toxicity. I have seen what happens when a community is policed too much; it becomes bland and stale because all the people who make it lively quit and the people who agree to the conditions are boring as shit. League is not quite there yet, but it is closer than last year.

Are you pissed of about something?

Please, give Us a break the only way to create a good system is to punish quick and cut the nasty crap from starting in the first place!

Zelorxon1 votes

I expected nothing less by when a league player and a rioter put their brains together.

GamblerOfLives1 votes

it's stupid:)..perma chat bans, are really frustrating to deal with..u can't even play the game:|..feels so bad, when u can't interact with other people. And, the player will eventually quit the game.

I would do something else....temporarily bans, a few months or something..and u also, need to prove yourself worthy:)..

swordofsun1 votes

People who are going to be toxic are going to be toxic. If they can't fix their behavior then they don't deserve to play with everyone else.

Could there perhaps be one or two more steps before a permban? Maybe. But Riot is already giving people 4 chances to not be toxic.

For all that people say Riot is babying the community it's the opposite really. They've laid out the ruless and the punishment for breaking said rules and then expect people to demonstrate some maturity. Follow the rules or face the concequences, it's not hard.

nerak231 votes

you kinda sound dumb.

Thanks for the insult, I didn't go out to insult you;)

2 things, why not post your conversations with the Riot staff Annoyingly of course ? I'm sure a lot of us would be interested. !

.............. And, a permanently banned player already had a chance with a chat ban, The player Can choose to ban themselves ( IE: pull out the enter key or rebind), simply not say things that are against the TOS , Not hit That enter key to begin with, and can do a lot to not get to the point of "permanent" bans.

Why would a company go backwards and reverse punishments ? It would make Riot seem week and unsure of what they are doing....No, don't change the rules is MHO

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