Boards›Player Behavior

Total waste of time to try to punish players for toxic behavior--it wont change anything.

DonnieDarkin··3 votes·921 views

I think its all stupid. If you want to flame someone, they can mute you. If they want to trash talk you after the match, you can leave the lobby. All that happens is that people find more creative ways to word their trash talking and flaming so as not to throw up red flags--the spirit of what they are saying is still there. Lets stop wasting time with trying to fix peoples behavior. It will always be at the same level no matter what you do. Whether you punish it or not. Ban someone, they play on a different account. Punish people for certain "bad" words, they just use different words. Trying to change human nature is a colossally retarded effort. Especially when you put 5 people in a game with strangers where you can often feel powerless. Of course people are going to get angry. WTF did Riot expect? There is a reason this is the most toxic game community--its human nature, and its exasperated by the VERY NATURE of the game.

When you fuck with someones time, they are going to get pissed off. This is never ever going to change as long as people are people. When things are out of a persons control they will get frustrated. This is never ever going to change as long as people are people. What? So you think people should be more mature? If you think that punishment in this game is going to fix severe character flaws that are deeply rooted in other things, you have no concept of reality or human nature.

Or, is it to protect minors who play the game and protect them from verbal abuse? If you think that with todays technology and the access kids have to it that doing anything in this game will make even a DENT in their exposure to every and anything, again, you are living in a fantasy world.

Its mind boggling that I feel like I am the only one who says this kind of thing.

36 Comments

ModThe Djinn9 votes

{quoted}its human nature...

Source? Because if this statement is true, then I should be accosted, flamed, and insulted for not doing something perfectly at work, for walking down the street, for ordering the "wrong" thing at a restaurant, and many other similar situations.

It IS a common side effect of anonymity on the internet, but, in general, the community HAS improved. Sure, the most toxic of players do indeed persist in their toxicity, and you're unlikely to stop it no matter what you do.

That's no reason to EMBRACE it though. Heck -- there will always be murderers, racists, thieves, and other undesirable members of a functioning society, but that's no reason to go "well, we can't be rid of them -- may as well just say it's fine and remove all associated social penalties."

If you think that punishment in this game is going to fix severe character flaws that are deeply rooted in other things, you have no concept of reality or human nature.

The goal of the system is only to ENCOURAGE reform -- Riot doesn't think it can somehow fix the personality or habits of players. It merely gives them a notice that they need to find some way to reform THEMSELVES, or they'll continue to be punished (and eventually banned).

If someone doesn't reform? Then the system removes them.

Are there better ways? Possibly. But embracing toxicity isn't one of them.

SecondAirbane1 votes

they definitely will get players to reform by banning their accounts and never giving them back sarcasm

TrulyBland3 votes

Probably should have read that more carefully:

If someone doesn't reform? Then the system removes them.

Most permabans have always been issued to people Riot deemed either unwilling or incapable of reforming. There are countless examples of people making new accounts and getting permabanned yet again, and Riot even did an experiment way back where they encouraged people to make new accounts with the prospect of getting their old accounts back if they get to lvl 30 without getting punished again... and close to 100% of them failed.

So these days, if you are hit by a permaban, Riot doesn't really care anymore about reforming you. At that point they essentially just try to discourage you from playing their game.

SecondAirbane1 votes

unless you're like me and go making tons of accounts and destroy low levels games get indef banned and do it some more

was talking as your point of view btw i've also been banned perma once i have no problem creating another account and getting placed silver and climbing again there

also it was level 20 not 30

TrulyBland1 votes

Are you aware of what the term "discourage" means? It doesn't mean 100% fool proof prevent anybody from ever doing something.

As a side note: Low level accounts are typically treated more harshly in terms of punishment, if they have been identified as smurfs. So while you have no problem getting placed silver again, a lot of people do actually, simply from the fact that they don't make it to level 30 without getting permabanned yet again.

SecondAirbane1 votes

lmao i went a whole year without being toxic then i int

and i'm already at strike 3 whats your excuse?

TrulyBland3 votes

So, you went a whole year without being toxic... how does that not lead to lower toxicity?

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

they definitely will get players to reform by banning their accounts and never giving them back sarcasm

Players who end up permanently banned are those Riot believes have been given warnings that they need to reform and have failed to act, or had behavior so toxic that they needed to be removed from the community. Riot's official policy is that once permanently banned a player is to longer welcome in the League community.

SecondAirbane1 votes

does that mean you're no longer welcome?

you were banned 5 times

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

does that mean you're no longer welcome?

you were banned 5 times

...I'm frankly confused as to where you got that idea from? I've never even had a chat restriction in seven years of playing League. But okay. :)

SecondAirbane1 votes

wait you're saying after 7 years you've only been silver and unranked?

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

wait you're saying after 7 years you've only been silver and unranked?

Well, aside from the gold I got in 2014. But yeah.

I don't play ranked much, as I prefer a more casual atmosphere in pretty much all of my games. I don't think there's been a season where I've played more than 20-odd ranked games. I also have friends who are worse at the game than me who I enjoy playing ranked with on the few occasions that I do play it, which doesn't help you gain ranks.

What of it? Not everyone is driven by seeing that MMR rise -- I COULD one-trick my two or three best champions through ranked and see where I actually end up, but that isn't how I enjoy League: I'd rather experiment with playing every champion, every position, and just have fun playing casually with my friends.

Or maybe I'm just a Silver player. Who knows? I really don't care one way or another.

I am sort of puzzled by why you brought either statement up though -- I don't know where you got that I was banned 5 times, or why you've decided to attempt to bring my my ranking out of the blue, but hey. Whatever you find amusing. :)

DonnieDarkin1 votes

"Source? Because if this statement is true, then I should be accosted, flamed, and insulted for not doing something perfectly at work, for walking down the street, for ordering the "wrong" thing at a restaurant, and many other similar situations."

Sigh. Really dude? Your examples have nothing to with what I am talking about. A better example would be a co worker flaming you for fucking him on a group project that he tried his best on but you didn't care or try, and now his personal reputation with the company is damaged. If it was reversed, you would be pissed becauuuuuuuse, its something that is out of your control. And humans react to things out of their control emotionally, usually anger or sadness.

Do you need a source to prove that cheating on a lover causes heartache or jealousy? Human nature is quite obvious and observable. How dare you come on to my post and try to knit pick it by asking for sources. Of all the stupid things I expected people to post in response, this takes the cake.

You clearly did not grasp my point. Good day.

All of the noobs3 votes

Oh my!

I adore how you mention & compare human nature to LoL. Wonder what was going through your mind writing this thread.

After reading this I get the feeling you're either;

  • Sick & tired of people flaming/- without getting penalties?.
  • Someone who might have been penalized recently.
  • A wierd desire to flame/ be toxic towards others without any sort of risk.

Toxicity & flaming will always be a part of LoL, it's unavoidable. Matches lasts for quite a while with "no escape", you're supposed to co-op with 4 other players, some are more special than others. The majority feels "competitive" & engaged, so obviously its a recipe of disaster when certain players gets matched with others.

Technically, when you bring such an idea you'll need to add a solution/ fix to reason. You can't just barge through the door and yell " Urrddurrr I don't agree with the system" and leave expecting us to even consider your thoughts.

I've tried my best to be reasonable seeing this case through multiple perspectives,** but this is quite of a mess. **

Could you please explain the part of the post about you not agreeing with Riot banning/ restricting players? Because if it is so that you're sick of flamers/ toxicity and think banning/ penalizing players isn't making any difference... That rather removing the rules/ penalties (which you're saying by stating that there's no point in "controlling" players, that it's solving nothing) is going to improve our community then im sorry to say that you're messed up.

There's been multiple threads explaining how their first penalizing/ bann changed them. It gives us a reason to believe its actually helping the community, slowly but sure.

Personally, I doubt its to protect minors. It's to keep our community healthy as possible. I hope there's no suprise for you that there's flamers in all age groups (hint hint).

Please don't act smart by adding human nature into this, especially when its obvious you're not thinking logical. It makes your whole thread... less serious.

SecondAirbane1 votes

the only 1's that are special are plat and higher if you arent you have a reason to be flamed

All of the noobs1 votes

http://i.imgur.com/WYR3Jj7.gif"

DonnieDarkin1 votes

"Technically, when you bring such an idea you'll need to add a solution/ fix to reason. You can't just barge through the door and yell " Urrddurrr I don't agree with the system" and leave expecting us to even consider your thoughts"

The solution was implied---do nothing about it. Just let it be.

"Could you please explain the part of the post about you not agreeing with Riot banning/ restricting players? Because if it is so that you're sick of flamers/ toxicity and think banning/ penalizing players isn't making any difference... That rather removing the rules/ penalties (which you're saying by stating that there's no point in "controlling" players, that it's solving nothing) is going to improve our community then im sorry to say that you're messed up."

Sure thing pal. Punishing or not punishing wont improve or worsen how people behave when it comes to chat.

Its cute how you try to undercut my post by trying to marginalize me, suggesting I am not logical, coupled with your obnoxiously arrogant tone.

If you need a place to try to sound smart and make yourself feel better than other people, you picked the wrong post.

All of the noobs1 votes

Sure thing pal. Punishing or not punishing wont improve or worsen how people behave when it comes to chat.

As i mentioned bellow, your theory doesnt make sense as there's multiple players who write their story how they're willing to reform/ change due to their first penalty. I'm adding a link to one of them, please read it as it's quite well written. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/yEzG2Bj2-dear-lol-community-dont-become-a-dick-like-me

**Let's be serious: ** The only reason you're making this post is because you want a reason to flame & be disgusting towards those who's toxic, without you risking your account. By removing all rules against toxicity/ flaming in LoL you're giving every player the rights to flame.

If there was no rule, a majority of "healthy players" would become a victim of toxicity instead of being a educated player and mute the certain player(s). Your idea promotes a violent chat.

Its cute how you try to undercut my post by trying to marginalize me, suggesting I am not logical, coupled with your obnoxiously arrogant tone.

First of all, you're promoting such attitude so please dont even try me. Besides, your theory is mind blown. Its a REASON your post currently have a score of 17 negative votes. Your comment section is disagreeing.

I tried to do the grand favour of making you realize how mind blown your way of thinking are in a neutral manner. If you disagree, then again- you're promoting a free speech without limits. It could've been way worse and yet you find me " obnoxiously arrogant ".

Mabye you should be happy theres rules. If there was no rules, I & others could've been really honest with you about your way of thinking.

If you need a place to try to sound smart and make yourself feel better than other people, you picked the wrong post.

Let me make this very... very clear for you. When you post your OPINIONS on a forum you **HAVE **to expect AND RESPECT people DISAGREEING with your thoughts. if you're too sensetive, that you cant handle people with other thoughts, then forums is not the place for you to be. Come back when you have thicker skin.

DonnieDarkin1 votes

A couple of examples from a game with 10s of MILLIONS of players means nothing. Furthermore, its just talk. You don't know how they are behaving in the game, just because they say the right things here on the boards. So that's a huge assumption to try to use that as some kind of evidence.

Let me make something very very clear for you: I don't HAVE to do anything when it comes to respecting anyone opinion on anything.

I am not the sensitive one here, snowflake. I am the one saying that everyone should learn to just handle people.

You still haven't proven to me that punishments actually improve behavior. As I originally stated, the root cause of those behaviors run far too deep to think you are going to make any significant impact on enough players for it to make any difference.

Nice try though kid. Go find a different post to try to make yourself sound superior on. You are so far out of your league intellectually, you are barely worth my time responding to.

YerroFever2 votes

I don't like to think it's human nature to be mean and horrible to everyone else.

I want to believe being mean and horrible to others is a poor coping mechanism that is learned and can be unlearned.

DonnieDarkin1 votes

Well than you have ignored all of human history and easily observable facts.

People act civilized because they know they need to for society to function. But that doesn't mean when push comes to shove they aren't nasty and selfish.

Unfortunately, you are probably going to find this out first hand when our monetary system collapses.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

There is a winner and a loser in every game. By your logic 1 team always wastes time, and in that sense, if you win a game and then lose the next game, you wasted double the time. Public relations buddy. You are on a team and rely on them to win a game. Why start harming your own team?

KORGtuners1 votes

You are on a team and rely on them to win a game. Why start harming your own team?

The starter is often overlooked.

"First time in ranked guys! Woot!"

"F off!"

"Why so toxic?"

We know that most negativity in game comes from a misstep, not a commitment to ruining games for people.

http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/01/ask-riot-banished-to-prisoners-island/

Metallmeister1 votes

[deleted]

SecondAirbane1 votes

riot turned tyler1's stream into a boring piece of shit area for all the haters

Metallmeister1 votes

[deleted]

SecondAirbane1 votes

god finally been waiting for his stream to get entertaining again ever since greek got in there it turned to dogshit

AeroWaffle6 votes

I don't think you understand what will happen if Riot were to lift the on-sight ban for tyler.

It's likely the next punishment of any kind would re-apply the on-sight ban and they'll throw away any consideration of ever lifting it again.

So he won't be allowed to go back to being an asshole in his games.

DonnieDarkin1 votes

Thats a huage assumption. You are correlating 2 things. Riot punishment and his change of behavior. However, you have no idea what steps he may have taken in his personal life, or events that occurred, that had nothing to with Riot. Unless he specifically said he was reformed soley because of Riot punishments?

howareyouthisbad1 votes

Flame can be muted. Inters,shitters,trollers,garbage players, losers are the issue

DoWG Whisper1 votes

Oh, but punishing toxic players does help. Why should someone have to mute his team just because they are more focused on flaming than to win?

DonnieDarkin1 votes

How does it help? You think someone who gets that emotionally invested is just going to stop playing the game forever because of restrictions or even a perma-ban? Wrong. They will be back.

EvilDustMan1 votes

No, it's not about removing people who are offensive, it's about removing annoying yappy dogs.

CØulrophobia1 votes

Can i just say that people are crying about a computergame? Why would you be insulted by anything said by creepy little kid behind a nickname like EvilOverlord203 or IMainRiven666? There is a mute button. Use it.

Colgate Gator1 votes

You see, that's kind of the thing.

Sure, Riot hopes the punishments and such will help people change, not because they have been taught their ways were wrong, but so they learn that behavior isn't accepted here, that's all. If everything else fails, they simply are disposed of.

DonnieDarkin1 votes

They aren't. If the game gets them that worked up, you think they are just going to leave and never come back on a different account? Fantasies dude.

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