Name and shame should be allowed

Soul Dealer·8/14/2019, 12:57:19 AM·4 votes·2,105 views

If riot won’t take action against trolls then we need to be able to warn people about them so if someone gets into a game with that person they can dodge and not have to deal with said person. The mods have always been against this idea but have yet to gives us a legitimate reason to not allow this. Their so called “witch hunting” is actually a good thing as players that troll and ruin games should be publicly known so people can avoid them at all costs. The only other option is riot actually does something meaningful about this issue but that does not seem to be happening anytime soon.

62 Comments

ModThe Djinn8/14/2019, 1:34:54 AM9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soul Dealer,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=6GdJy3LV,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-08-14T00:57:19.254+0000)The mods have always been against this idea but have yet to gives us a legitimate reason to not allow this.

We've given a legitimate reason you happen to disagree with:

Their so called “witch hunting” is actually a good thing as players that troll and ruin games should be publicly known so people can avoid them at all costs.

You think it's a good thing. We (and our experience with seeing it happen on the boards -- both justified and unjustified) believe it isn't. The rule will not be changing at this time.

rujitra8/14/2019, 1:19:07 AM6 votes

Need I Photoshop an image that makes you look like you're doing something wrong to prove to you how this could be abused? Would take 5 minutes top, and you wouldn't be able to tell that it's altered or fake.

GatekeeperTDS8/14/2019, 1:02:27 AM5 votes

Here is my copypasta reply to you from the other thread, since you had to turn this into your own epic idea.

No, it is not basically the same at all. This is a video game. This is not real life. If you have an issue with a player, Riot has a way for you to have yourself heard, which is by reporting after game or filling out a support ticket. Because, guess what, nobody on a forum knows if you're telling the truth about what happened or not. And even if the accused person did what you said they did, Riot has decided that reform is what they want from players, not public humiliation on their own forums.

You, by all means, can create a forum of your own with your own rules where people can have all the witch hunts they want.

EDIT: Here's my other reply from that thread that needs to be copypastad.

How exactly is naming and shaming a single person on the board going to prevent you from playing games with them.

Do you have any grasp of exactly how small of a chance you have at running into any one single player?

Nik Nikerson8/14/2019, 1:18:48 AM4 votes

The irony here is that you're exactly the sort of player that's being protected by this policy.

TrulyBland8/14/2019, 1:10:01 PM4 votes

If your only argument for witch hunts is essentially that real witches deserve to be hunted, you have understood neither what the problem with historical witch hunts was, nor what the problem with metaphorical witch hunts nowadays is.

  • The evidence against the witch is mostly very circumstantial and can't be verified by the general public.
  • Only the witch-hunting party is able to present any evidence.
  • And despite both those points, the burden of proof is essentially placed on the "witch". If she can't prove her innocence, she is guilty in the eyes of the public (or historically: guilty in the eyes of the public and the authority).

Even if one believes that a troll deserves to be publicly shamed (which is an understandable but still debatable point of view) the problem at its core is that it's impossible to verify in all but very few fringe cases whether somebody actually is a troll. It's not about protecting witches/trolls, it's about protecting people from being (in some cases maliciously) accused of being witches/trolls and being subjected not to a fair trial but to the equivalent of a lynch mob.

There is a reason why somebody's guilt is not decided by the general public (and as a small sidenote: even the concept of a jury deciding over somebody's guilt is pretty weird in countries without them)

Now you could ask "but what about the really obvious cases?" The first problem with that is that it's difficult to really draw a line there. A lot of people come to these forums being completely convinced that their case is very obvious, even when it is not. Apart from the negative effects that can have, this also makes moderating super hard: Those people can believably claim that they thought it was obvious, so it's not even really possible to punish those people for what may very well have been a malicious attempt to tarnish somebody's reputation. It also makes it much more difficult for mods to even judge whether a thread should be deleted in the first place, which will inevitably result in inconsistent decisions by mods.

The second problem is that the chance that a particular individual runs into a troll (low-ish chance), that they have happened to read about on the forums (really low chance) and that was one of the few verifiable trolls (extremely low chance) is so abysmal that the benefit for any individual person in those cases is virtually non-existent. The chance that somebody runs into a troll that they "heard about" on the forums, supplied with some circumstantial evidence, on the other hand, is… well... still low. But it's significantly higher than the previous chance. But those cases will beyond any doubt include people who are actually not trolls, which ultimately results in a negative effect on both parties, as everybody involved has their queue time increased without any valid reason. Worse still: The chance that an individual runs into a "troll" they read about on the forums is significantly lower than the chance of that "troll" running into somebody who has heard about them.

So the benefit that people can make an actually well-informed decision to dodge a verifiable troll is extremely low, while there is the low - but realistic - chance that both the target and the readers of a thread are being inconvenienced by somebody who - best case - was holding a grudge, or - worst case - had malicious intent.

So, now that somebody has given you a legitimate reason not to allow this… Is that really worth it to you?

CharDeeMcDenniz8/14/2019, 1:14:41 AM3 votes

absolutely not

Savage the King8/14/2019, 2:50:34 AM1 votes

What I have to give to this OP's argumentation is, while I would not agree with name & shame, negative players are present on a consistent basis (there seems to be little reduction in occurrence of toxic in-game behavior) and we have no means of knowing whether the reports we give produce results, proof No. 1 is that there is a consistent occurrence of toxic in-game behavior. Even tickets seem of no use, and the last time I wrote a ticket for some extreme behavior (2 tickets in 6 years I think I'm being moderate), this blitzcrank bot telling me "we got your stuff into the system". Talk about feeling powerless. Why does there seem to be always as much toxic behavior? Does the system work at all? I would be tempted to answer "no".