Bringing back Player Tribunal

dontspinbutwin·5/20/2019, 10:20:06 PM·2 votes·2,682 views

Player Tribunal was dropped essentially because players abused the system and trolled. However, I now want to propose this idea:

Bring the Tribunal back, but only players who are honor level 5 can review cases. The case is given to 3 players, and majority ruling determines that player's fate. If a player is in constant minority when judging (aka they're trolling), then they will no longer be asked to review cases. Players who review cases can get a minor reward, like maybe 100 orange essence: nothing too big, but enough to give incentive to review cases.

This is a blueprint of the idea, but it should work better than it has in the past, as those who r lvl 5 honor are more well behaved then the majority of players, and in the odd case where someone slips through the cracks, there are others who can make that individual stand out.

I just think it sucks when a player is unrightfully punished because the bot detected something that was taken out of context, while the bot ignores phrases used for bot dodging (like different languages or inting).

Thoughts?

12 Comments

Umbral Regent5/20/2019, 10:47:56 PM8 votes

Player Tribunal was dropped essentially because players abused the system and trolled.

That was only part of the problem, and it was abused because there was a reward incentive tied to unanimous case votes. The other problem that the Tribunal had was that it was very slow to get punishments out, and wound up with a backlog of reports to file through - as well as players getting punished for misbehavior from months ago.

Bring the Tribunal back, but only players who are honor level 5 can review cases.

This...Is already not a great idea. The Honor Level climb is supposed to be a year-long thing, and IIRC, even people who play frequently would take around 7~ months to get to Honor Level 5. If Honor Level 5 was a prerequisite to Tribunal participation, then the Tribunal would only really be active for around 5~ months; from August 'til January, when Honor Level resets.

That leaves a whole lot of time for the Tribunal to be completely unused, and ironically, would lead to the issue of having a backlog of reports and punishments being dealt way, way, way later than they should've been.

The case is given to 3 players, and majority ruling determines that player's fate. If a player is in constant minority when judging (aka they're trolling), then they will no longer be asked to review cases.

Three reviewers doesn't really sound all that fair, to be honest. With only four possible outcomes (3/0, 2/1, 1/2, 0/3), you may as well call punishments a coin-toss. And the last thing you want with a system is for punishments to basically boil down to a coin-toss. You need a larger pool of reviewers if you're going to punish players based off a majority vote.

And that brings up an issue; speed vs. accuracy. More reviewers means that a verdict will likely be more accurate (there will be less likelihood that the punishment just swings to one side, as it would with three reviewers), but it would take longer as there would be more people needing to review the behavior. On the other hand, less reviewers means that verdicts can come out quicker, but it also results in less accuracy because the punishments are being decided by all of three people voting "yes" or "no".

Additionally, punishing reviewers for being in the consistent minority has some issues, especially when coupled with the low per-case number of reviewers; outside of unanimous votes, someone is going to be in the minority in a case; how many times is that going to happen before they get penalized? And how does their being in the minority somehow determine that they're trolling? If a punishment only needs two votes to pass, then the minority vote shouldn't eventually be omitted from the system - 'cause, as mentioned earlier, there are really only four outcomes.

You can't determine trolling just by someone being in the consistent minority; you can't tell if they're deliberately voting differently "for the lols" or if they're actually seeing something that other people aren't. Attempting to determine trolling/misbehavior solely by someone coming up in the minority vote frequently would just be arbitrary. That'd be like judging trolls by KDA alone; every non-kill-focused Support would become a troll by that logic.

Players who review cases can get a minor reward, like maybe 100 orange essence: nothing too big, but enough to give incentive to review cases.

I would not call Orange Essence a minor reward. Blue Essence, yes, but Orange Essence - which can be used to unlock all sorts of cosmetic Shards for free? No.

And, again, this brings up the issue mentioned earlier; people tended to troll and abuse the Tribunal when there was a reward attached to it. And if people just spam-voted "punish" when rewarded with Influence Points (Blue Essence) for successfully passing a judgement, how bad do you think it'd get if they were rewarded with something more valuable (Orange Essence) just for participating?

...as those who r lvl 5 honor are more well behaved then the majority of players...

I'd say this assessment is a bit too idealistic of the Honor System. Like Champion Mastery, Honor Level doesn't actually equate to what it's supposed to represent all that accurately. Just as Champion Mastery is more literally a player's time playing that Champion and their ability to get a couple S ranks as them, Honor Level is more indicative of a player's ability to play League without getting punished or validating reports.

I just think it sucks when a player is unrightfully punished because the bot detected something that was taken out of context...

I would like to see an example or two of this, because by and large, the IFS is pretty damn accurate about judging chat behavior.

GatekeeperTDS5/20/2019, 11:26:17 PM3 votes

Oh, are you one of those dudes who thinks he wouldn't have been punished if his case happened back in the Tribunal days? Boy would you be in for a shock - those of us who participated overwhelmingly voted to punish toxicity.

Guess what - we even did so despite viewing the entire chat log. Turns out it doesn't matter who started it or who was worse - we didn't want the negativity in our games.

You're much better off with the IFS.

Zombie Gerbil5/20/2019, 10:46:22 PM2 votes

No. That system is outdated and didn't help the community. And good thing they will never bring that crap back. The IFS now is far better than that old thing.

Kei1435/21/2019, 11:27:42 AM1 votes

The verbal punishment bot has a 99.9% accuracy on correct punishments.

Those that normally claim unrightful punishment just don't understand how the system works and don't understand what they did wrong.

mærk5/20/2019, 10:27:40 PM1 votes

It was stated before I believe if it was brought back, people will abuse their powers, not majority but some will do so and then cause errors in the tribunal and then Riot will have to 'spend' more time and money to readjust those appeals and claims, blahblahblah, big corporate thingy, blahblah.

It was nice to have players volunteer and read the reports of players but then again it's more money investment Riot will have to do, they can leave everything be automated and have the errors they have now but make more money because money isn't invested into the tribunals OR invest the money and have less money to money with.

I do miss it though. Was rewarding, ideally Honor 3 or above can be tribunal jurors but even now I have trouble trying to play a few games a day/week to barely be able to hit Honor 4/5 as prior Honor System.

General Matty5/22/2019, 11:08:35 AM1 votes

no lol.

Gorderkiller5/20/2019, 10:48:30 PM1 votes

so now 3 people who work up to honors 5 could still be trolls and get people permanently banned

oh yeah it works already :(

Shadowbyte5/21/2019, 3:58:22 AM1 votes

This version of this system has shown to be effective in CS:GO (called overwatch) where players higher then a certain elo can review cases and determine if someone is hacking or griefing and gives the reviewer a little bit of xp as thanks. This can easily be fitted to league games, why riot hasn't done this I have no idea