Permanent Bans for toxic players should be no more

MrCaucasian·1/21/2020, 5:39:08 AM·3 votes·2,717 views

I have been banned for being extremely toxic and I completely understand why. However, I have spent around 6 years playing this game and investing over $600 into it and I got permanently banned. I feel like there should be a different consequence to people being permanently banned for toxicity. Toxic players should just get permanently chat banned instead of permanently banned because they would be able to play the game that they love without ruining other players' experiences. Then if someone acted out by running it down mid they deserve to get banned, but for the players that can not stop typing on their keyboard and flaming other people there should be some other type of consequence that does not delete everything that you have done in the specific account forever. So much of my gaming life was in that account and it honestly does hurt to have it gone because this has always been my main game that I have always played.

27 Comments

MagicFlyingLlama1/21/2020, 5:46:53 AM12 votes

You can stop. you chose not to.

Nothing of value was lost.

rujitra1/21/2020, 5:53:30 AM6 votes

You still don't get it - making it clear that you needed a permanent ban before you'd even try to understand. The primary problem is NOT the chat, it's the attitude that chat represents. This attitude that it is ever okay for you to ruin games for others when you're frustrated, that is the true problem. Your lack of self control in preventing this sort of lashing out at teammates - that is the true problem.

Are either of those limited to chat? No. When you're frustrated, and you deliberately choose to argue/tilt instead of moving on and playing the game well - a "permanent chat ban" would not prevent that sort of behavior. Not to mention when you may "accidentally" die a couple times because you really don't think this Udyr deserves to win (or whatever). Does a chat ban stop that? Nope.

It may seem to you like these two behaviors are, well, completely unrelated. They aren't. They both stem from people who ruin the game for others to make themselves feel better - be that arguing/flaming/abusing others in chat, or be that intentionally feeding deaths - The vast majority of people who do one will have partaken in the other. They are both symptoms of this attitude problem that you don't have to control your urges and follow the rules.

So no, Riot isn't going to give you this chat ban, which would be highly likely to result in you just so happening to "lose" more games (when in reality you're causing them to be lost), or having "computer issues" for a few minutes in the middle of the game, or whatever. You can claim all you want that you wouldn't do that - but remember, you claimed when you created your account that you understood and would follow the rules - but you couldn't control yourself. Given your track record which does not demonstrate you can be "trusted" to control yourself and obey the rules, why would Riot trust you with continued access to their services in any way that you could cause negative experiences for other players?

XAltinaOrionX1/21/2020, 7:10:06 AM5 votes

Well this kid is still younger than me how sad. I've spent way more than that on my main account which is long gone. Close to 3000$

Basically I now muted the kids that are too immature and keep pinging me end of story. I as well blocked every child trying to flame me and who keep int.

NO LPQ or Chat restrictions on this account, so i can safely climb soon.

AeroWaffle1/21/2020, 5:46:08 AM4 votes

Riot already tried only chat punishments for poor chat behavior in the past. Copying a response I made recently because it's about the same subject;

{quoted}

Spotting game related poor behavior is a lot harder due to Riot not wanting to ban people for simply playing poorly with no malice.

Riot tried endless stacking chat restrictions for chat related poor behavior. To the point where some people were running around with hundreds or even thousands of games before they were out of chat restriction (effectively endless chat restrict).

Riot found that such people often just resorted to game methods of poor behavior when they couldn't do it through chat. The problem isn't the chat at that point. Once it's clear that the player doesn't want to behave no matter how many times they're told not to, blocking one outlet is just going to result in them finding a different outlet.

So why bother going through that extra step if the player is just going to continue to behave poorly but in a way that's harder to catch and hold them accountable?

If you want to turn off your own chat you have that option already. Turn off team-chat in your options. If someone doesn't have the self-control to keep that option off despite the risk to their account then I doubt they would have the self-control to prevent themselves from behaving poorly when chat is blocked forcefully.

So in the end, while in a perfect world Riot would be able to quickly spot those that resorted to game-related methods of poor behavior when their chat was blocked and actually ban them, that's a pipe dream.

Griefing is simply harder to spot reliably without getting innocent people caught in the crossfire and thus it's much less likely to be punished. So Riot wouldn't really be solving the problem by chat banning players if all it resulted in was players griefing when they couldn't chat.

d4rkshock1/21/2020, 9:51:12 AM4 votes

There isnt any favoritism. You can stop. Nobody wants to play with anti-Semitic white supremacists who use l9 levels of death threats and personal attacks. If you cant stop doing this then you cant play the game.

Modi1/21/2020, 6:14:20 PM4 votes

players that choose to not stop typing on their keyboard and flaming other people

Fixed it for you.

It is not a "can not" situation. This is a "choose to not" situation.

Umbral Regent1/21/2020, 2:08:02 PM4 votes

Toxic players should just get permanently chat banned instead of permanently banned because they would be able to play the game that they love without ruining other players' experiences.

As others have pointed out, Riot has previously tried what amounted to permanent chat bans, and it didn't work. People under larger-scale restrictions resorted to trolling and intentional feeding, and that was with even a small amount of allotted chat to use. Removing chat outright would doubtless create a similar spike in gameplay misbehavior.

Additionally, people who repeatedly break the rules need to have more serious repercussions to show that they can't just get away with breaking the rules over and over and over ad nauseum. That's why Riot employs permabans; toxic players need to be hammered down if they think they're free to break the rules however they want whenever they want. It's a strict and impactful punishment reserved for the worst offenders or consistent repeat offenders.

Beyond that, I want to break something down in the above snipped sentence;

Toxic players should...be able to play the game that they love without ruining other players' experiences.

If a player is toxic and deliberately ignoring the rules, they don't love the game. If you love the game, it'd be expected that you'd observe the rules instead of breaking them to the point that Riot has to kick you out.

And, on top of that, if a player is toxic, ruining other players' experiences is the point of them being toxic. They have the option to not flame or harass or troll or whatever else, but they do, and it's because they want to ruin other people's experiences.

Toxic behavior is an entirely voluntary thing, and if someone loves the game, they'd be mindful to actually obey the rules so that they can keep playing, and not detract from others' experiences.

Then if someone acted out by running it down mid they deserve to get banned...

You say that like it's that easy. If the past bears repeating, permanent chat bans would result in a sizeable uptick in trolling and intentional feeding - so, to use the Riot Tantram quote KFCeytron brought up;

"...would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat?"

...but for the players that can not stop typing on their keyboard and flaming other people there should be some other type of consequence that does not delete everything that you have done in the specific account forever.

Again; Flaming and other toxic behavior is entirely voluntary. Every player has the option to simply not flame and not harass other people. If they do that over and over and over again, with complete disregard for the rules and the warnings and the punishments they get for doing so, especially the one that explicitly says the next punishment for any misbehavior will be a permanent ban, then honestly, do they really deserve to keep the account?

They don't care about the rules, they don't care about other players, and most of all, they don't care about the game. You could tell them that if they flame even once you'd nuke their account to oblivion, and they'd probably turn right around and flame in the next match just to spite you.

Toxic players are not welcome in League of Legends, and getting an account permanently banned means you'd have to have ignored a lot of perfectly explicit warnings that your behavior was not okay and that further punishments were going to get harsher and harsher.

So much of my gaming life was in that account and it honestly does hurt to have it gone because this has always been my main game that I have always played.

Hate to say it, but, you really should've thought of that before the permanent ban, when you were told that your account was on very thin ice. The warning that came with the 14-day ban couldn't have possibly been more explicit about what was at stake.

Tele II1/21/2020, 11:02:25 PM3 votes

I disagree. You said it hurt. Thats the goal. Fear the permaban. How do you avoid permaban? Follow the rules.

Noodle Wacker1/21/2020, 6:59:30 AM2 votes

Can't handle a team game go back to single player games. Not anyone's fault you open your mouth in chat and started flamming people. All of that is on you. Doesn't matter if you "spent years" and "spent $600" on the game. That's not an excuse to be a jerk. Be supportive, be friendly, being something your team can play with and not hate because of your own poor behavior.

KFCeytron1/21/2020, 6:03:21 AM2 votes

Did you find something in Riot's store allowing you to break the ToS? No, because such a service is not offered. Regardless of how much money you spend, you are required to follow the same rules as everyone else. If the IFS determines that you've been validly reported in violation of those rules, you'll be punished according to those rules. If you wanted to avoid a punishment, you should've followed the rules.

Riot's punishment system used to hand out stacking chat restrictions, such that consistently toxic players basically had a permanent chat restriction. Unfortunately, it turns out that such players used their few chat opportunities to be toxic, and, when they couldn't be as toxic as they wanted to, they resorted to committing non-chat offenses such as griefing (following someone around and taking their farm, using wall abilities to interfere with their play, etc.) or inting. The purpose of the punishment system is to eliminate rule-breaking, not make it worse. Thus, if a couple chat restrictions don't make any difference in a player's misbehavior, the system ramps up the punishments until the player is permabanned and thus unable to use that account to break any more rules ever again.

According to Riot Tantram:

It really breaks down into two categories.

1.) Helping players reform 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost.

We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely.

We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it.

We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling.

The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS.

So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat?

ElnyrJhodo1/21/2020, 5:42:13 AM2 votes

Riot doesn't give a fuck about the frustrated playerbase getting inted by those they protect.

Be nice. Be positive. Go play another game.

Ph03n1xb1rd1/21/2020, 12:10:33 PM1 votes

Toxic players should just get permanently chat banned instead of permanently banned

According to Rito permanently muted players turn into mindless zombies with the sole purpose to ruin the game for everyone else, and that's why they do not do this.

BTW just make a new acc and don't spend a cent on the game!