@RIOT, Why 'Report Calling / Lobbying for mass reports' should NOT be a thing
#Alternative title: "I'm going to make your brain hurt in under 1000 words" or,
#"This horse will be continually beaten until Riot gives the community a more definitive answer"
##Let me posit this to you
If I'm told report calling is not punishable unless used intentionally to harass others, but I unintentionally use it to harass others, am I then liable to be punished for using it to harass others?
[zombie-brand-mindblown]
##We know that the system knows the difference between a "false report" and a "real report" as it pertains to the player being flagged/reported; If it's a false report nothing happens to the player. If it's a real report, the player is flagged/punished. ##But do we know that the system knows the difference between an "intentional false report" and an "unintentional false report" as it pertains to the player(s) lobbying the report(s)?
Let's say we're looking at the algorithm code for how a report is handled in the system.
Report validation algorithm (aka Very shitty 'code')
Report filed against PlayerX {
Verify if Report = valid {
If Report = valid,
Then Punish PlayerX; } else {
If Report = invalid,
Then Discard Report; }
}
This defines how a report and the result against "PlayerX" is handled. Either PlayerX is guilty, in which case he's punished, or he's not guilty, in which case the report is discarded. For the sake of simplicity, we understand the system has a way of figuring out if PlayerX was actually a bad boy or not, perhaps based on his past account punishments for similar report incidents, etc. ##What is not clearly defined is the how the system handles the intent of the player making the report call.
Report validation algorithm v2 (aka Very shitty 'code' v2)
PlayerY filed Report against PlayerX {
Verify if PlayerY(Report) = valid; {
If Report = valid,
Then Punish PlayerX; } else {
If Report = invalid,
Discard Report; }
The Second half we know nothing about
Then {
Define PlayerY(Intent); {
When Intent = Toxic[yes],
Then Punish PlayerY; } else {
When Intent = Toxic[no],
End; }
}
[slayer-pantheon-rainbows]
I'm pretty sure i'm missing a } somewhere in there but whatever. You should be able to get the gist of it. Now imagine "PlayerY" making these reports on a regular basis. Some are real reports and some are false reports; is there a limit to the number of (unintentional) false reports? What happens to PlayerY say, after, 20 false reports and 10 real reports? Or 30:5? Or 100:1?
What about the player who's on the receiving end of PlayerY's (unintentional) false reports?
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If PlayerY isn't punished for making unintentionally false report calls, are we supposed to just accept that other person gets unintentionally harassed?
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If PlayerY is punished for making unintentionally false report calls, are we supposed to just accept that punishment for the innocent PlayerY?
What about player/game collateral?
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What if PlayersA, B, and C start harassing/griefing/focusing on the person being report called on? Sure they're liable for punishment (verbal abuse), but the damaging side-effects of the report calling is already done.
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What if those other players start believing report calling is a valid tool, and start doing it themselves in future games? What if they assume their own accounts might be in jeopardy if someone report calls them?
##"B b but Mr. B. Bonobo, report calling never done hurt no ones, and it makes me feel guuuuud!"
[slayer-jinx-unamused]
Here's why you are wrong. It does affect others.
- Falsely 'report call' innocent players of wrongdoing If unintentional, innocent player then: A. Feels harassed B. Is bullied by other players C. Becomes angry and/or frustrated D. Loses focus on his/her game E. Feels the need to defend self F. Some or All of the above If intentional, then in addition to the above, the player 'report calling': A. May be punished for harassment (if counter-reported) B. Creates negative game environment C. Shifts focus of others to "guilty" party D. Escalates chat to toxic levels E. All of the Above
- Purposefully 'report call' guilty players of wrongdoing Tends to result in the guilty player: A. Escalating their toxicity in chat B. Escalating their game trolling (int feeding/going afk/etc) C. Harassing the 'report call' player D. Harassing other players that also 'report call' E. Shifting focus of other players from the game F. All of the Above
Not to forget, if 'report calling' punishments are conditional in this fashion, what happens to the player who unintentionally harasses innocent players with 'report calling' on a regular basis?
Either way, none of these scenarios result in a positive game experience when someone uses chat to lobby mass reports. Since you only need one report to count, there is no reason to ever let report calling be acceptable, conditional or otherwise.
#I will now drop the mic quote Riot employees
[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]
##"Outdated/Incorrect" Riot Position
RH1. Riot Husker: "Calling for others to report a player is a punishable offense. It is a form of bullying and as such is against the summoner code."
Corroborates RT1, RT2, RT3.
RH2. Riot Husker: "Don't feel pressured in to doing something by your team mates asking you to report a player. It's all recorded and all counts. "
Corroborates RT1, RT6, RT7
##"New/Clarified" Riot Position
RK1. Riot NaKyle: "[. . .] whether or not we dish out penalties to players who ask for reports. Just to be super clear, we don't. If a player used asking for reports as a leaping off point for actual harassment, that's when we'd blow the whistle."
This statement is poorly worded and creates more confusion and vagueness. There are two halves to this statement.
First half: "We do not punish players that ask for reports"; Second half: "We punish players that ask for reports if there is also 'actual harassment'" (Contradictions RH1, RH2, RK2, RK3, RT5).
RK2. Riot NaKyle: "Report calling is often a minor negative thing, but say there's a spectrum of chat where 1 is hyper-friendly, 5 is neutral, and 10 is literal death threats,** this is like a 6**."
If Report calling is "often a 'minor negative thing' and 'like a 6' on a scale of Super Nice to I will end your life", why is it still acceptable behavior? Six is above 'Neutral', according to Riot NaKyle; so you can be toxic/harass others as long as its almost neutrally harassing them?
RK3. Riot NaKyle: "Husker's post mischaracterizes the severity of report calling by equating it with outright flaming and bullying. Report calling is bad but its not that bad (by what the community tells us through reports)". If you're looking to make an impact on the community, the absolute best thing you can do is submit earnest, thorough reports when you see some shit you don't want in your game.
So the community says that Report calling is OK, but Report calling + chat toxicity is BAD (Contradiction: RT4, RT5). Report calling is "bad but not that bad"; strange, I don't remember ever reporting someone for "I only want a little bit of this bad behavior in my games". Pretty sure if I reported someone for something, it's because I don't want any of it in my games, period.
##The original "gospel" and why we believed the way we did
RT1. Riot Tantram: "Multiple reports do NOT increase the likelihood of flagging a game for review. One report is all it takes. There is no benefit to asking for others to report a player."
A big problem and source of this confusing "report calling" mess, is that your "average joe" player doesn't know this information. Riot needs to beef up / update their knowledge base and how they release Player Behavior press releases to the community at large. Maybe adding a nice, big "Support" menu link in the game client itself is a good place to start.
RT2. Riot Tantram: "Asking for reports serves no purposeother than to tell the person you are reporting that you are reporting. It's an "I'm telling on you" comment."
He seems to get it here, but then he contradicts himself (RT3) after Riot NaKyle made the update.
RT3. Riot Tantram: "But, asking for reports CAN be a way of harassing players. In that case, the system can detect that you are using it as a means of harassment. A single 'report xx' isn't going to cause a penalty. But calling someone a feeder for having a poor game, telling people to report them for int'ing, etc .. is all going to be considered negative."
Self contradictory / Unclear / vague information. So asking for reports "can be a tool to harass others" and the system "detects that you're using it that way", really? An amalgam of code can decipher human intention? Show me, please.
It sounds good with the first half, but when you put it together with the second half of the statement, you begin to realize the 'system' isn't that capable (hint, no A.I. system can yet discern human intent with any meaningful accuracy). ##This is the IMPORTANT CLAUSE: ". . . calling someone a feeder for having a poor game, telling people to report them for int'ing, etc .. is all going to be considered negative."
What it means: You can say "report PlayerX" and not get punished, but if you say something like "report PlayerX for trolling/int feeding" and they're not actually trolling/int feeding, it is then considered negative and you can be punished. ##But what if you believe PlayerX is actually int feeding, and the system thinks otherwise?
The system doesn't care what you believe or what your intentions are; if you lobby reports against a player and the system checks that player and says "nope, he's innocent", then you can get punished, even though you had good intentions and genuinely believed them to be breaking the rules.
[zombie-brand-clap]
RT4. Riot Tantram: "Riot doesn't define what is acceptable/unacceptable. It is the player base that decides that. Our systems learn from our players. Just like how players taught the system that GGEZ is pretty BM, players also taught the system that 'report xxx for int'ing' when they are not, is also negative."
This backs up my analysis above in RT3. If you call for reports on someone you think is in the wrong, but the system doesn't agree with you, you are liable to be wrongly penalized for it.
RT5. Riot Tantram: "Asking for reports is considered harassment by the community. You were harassing the jungler, asking for people to report them when they were doing nothing wrong. Having a bad game is not reportable. Asking to report someone for having a bad game, is reportable."
So report calling is harassment, and it's also just a little harassment (RK2, RK3); so a little harassment is ACCEPTABLE, except when a little harassment is paired up with a lot of harassment?
Even though according to Riot -- "real harassment" such as death threats and hate speech is much less common?
[zombie-brand-facepalm]
##Why not just make Report Calling plain and simple harassment and disallow it altogether? The reason why they won't: Because according to Riot NaKyle, "report call" harassment is a 'miniscule issue' not worth their time. But oh yea, it's very possible you could be banned for falsely report calling others even out of ignorance of the system, or by your own misguided beliefs.
##Riot, you need to inform your entire player base that calling for reports serves no functional purpose and because of this fact, the pure act of calling for reports more often than not results in a negative game environment for everyone involved. It's part of your job as a company to make sure your customers have up to date and easily accessible information on how your punishment system works.
Right now, you make half-assed threads in the forums -- where only a minor percentage of the playerbase visits -- outlining "updates" to the IFS system/Player Behavioral rules, while average players continue to rampantly run around ignorant of how said systems and rules actually function.
You rely on third party sources (websites) to copy and relay your "press releases", while your support database contains extremely outdated, vague, or completely incorrect information(SA).
[zombie-nunu-bummed]
##If you want to reduce or eliminate a majority of the harassment, toxicity and help bring clarity to your community at large then:
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Focus on integrating your Summoner Code guidelines, Knowledge Database, and Community Relations information into the League Client itself**.
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Have a specific Riot staff member be dedicated only to community PR, and let this employee handle all press releases that pertain to issues of player behavior, et al. Make sure these player behavior press releases are directly added to the client first, and then to the forums second.
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Update your reform cards to outline the specific behavioral issues that player faces; especially if you are just issuing a chat restriction for a 'minor offense'. Hyperlink the offending words/phrases or behavior directly to the relevant Support Database article or Summoner Code article.
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Revamp/overhaul the Summoner Code page to reflect the latest in player behavior rules/guidelines, and add a little bit more specificity to topic. Add photos to each topic.
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Revamp/overhaul the Support Database articles to reflect the latest information, and make sure it is accurate information.
##On the subject of 'report weight' / 'report value'
SA. Support Article INSTANT FEEDBACK SYSTEM FAQ: "WILL MY ACCOUNT GET PUNISHED FOR BEING REPORTED WHEN I DID NOTHING WRONG? This is unlikely, as reports are only one piece of the puzzle. While they are important to bringing games to our attention the system still gauges the behavior in game before punishments are issued. Also, players who consistently make false reports against others diminishes the value of that player's report and renders them meaningless."
Incorrect/Outdated information. Directly contradicts RT6 and RT7 below.
RT6. Riot Tantram: "Reports do not lose value based upon the number of times you report players."
RT7. Riot Tantram: "As long as you are making a valid report, it counts. Your reports don't stop being factored in if they don't punish a player."
#TL;DR (In summary): While 'report calling' is always a form of harassment -- under the current position, the level of harassment from report calling is (according to Riot) not 'worthy' enough to issue penalties unless there is obvious and noticeable abuse and/or additional toxicity involved with the report calling.
I believe this stance to be unacceptable and dangerous to the community, because of how the IFS system interprets those reports. Instead of making 'report calling' conditionally punishable (i.e. it's OK to do it unless you also do 'xx'); report calling should fall until the category of always receiving a penalty. Riot also needs to make everyone aware that report calling serves no functional purpose within the system -- you only need one report in order to flag someone.
By adhering to the previously believed standard of "report calling = punishable", it will: A) remove any incentives some may have to try abuse the system without being caught; B) decrease the chances of some being unjustly punished from (unintentionally) falsely reporting innocent players; C) reduce/stop innocent players from being harassed; D) bring everyone onto the same 'page' concerning report calling and remove all doubts and confusion as to "when is report calling acceptable", because it will always be unacceptable.
##Congrats if you made it all the way to the end (and read all of it)! You get my deepest appreciation and thanks for taking the time to read these concerns that I, and many others (perhaps even yourself) have.
[slayer-jinx-catface]
