Boards›Player Behavior

One of the Easiest Ways to Turn Games Around

Totally Not Jinx·1/6/2019, 6:51:23 PM·31 votes·15,752 views

It starts with accountability.

I get it, it's frustrating when your teammates aren't doing well. But believe it or not, a more productive answer to '[Champion] why are you feeding' or any similar sentiment is 'How can I help [lane, champion] do better?'

I will admit, I am not the best at playing this game. Many of us aren't. But a solid mindset that even professionals will tell you, is to make sure you realise that you can only control yourself.

Bot lane behind for x reasons? See if there's an opportunity to help them. If not, snowball another lane. Don't be an ass to them. Jungle full of death? Ward safely, avoid chasing kills through there, and communicate your needs.

There is a reason that pings exist; to communicate effectively in a minimal amount of time.

I will admit, I am not immune to letting frustration out in-game. It took me a long time to learn that doing so is problematic, and only makes my life worse. So even if I'm tilted, I will do my best despite being angry at my team to figure out what I can do.

Dying a lot? Focus on playing back and staying safe. Vision down? Place wards any safe place I can.

Yelling at your teammates, or even questioning their decisions after the fact, sets you up for failure. It's a team game, but for some reason (especially below Gold from my experience) there's this unfortunate mentality that you're the only one who matters. Granted, there are several design elements in the game that make this perception valid. But, since the players can't control Riot, we have to start with someone. And that's ourselves.

56 Comments

nightwraith king1/6/2019, 7:56:57 PM9 votes

In no way is flaming a good thing but just to add a counter point, Blaming myself when my team mates lose a 3v1 when I was taking an objective or in another lane is not going to make me a better player it is just going to ruin the game for me. So while you should not blame others for your mistakes don't blame yourself for other people's mistakes. Overall remember if that some people are only seeing League as a game to have fun in and not a do or die situation. (Also don't purposely play poorly unless you are on a team with all bots because you will be ruining the game for someone). Other wise this post is great.

woodvsmurph1/7/2019, 1:27:21 AM3 votes

Accountability also needs to involve making sure people hold up their end of the bargain. I'm in gold elo. That might not impress a lot of people, but I worked hard to get here and I deserve teammates who have a decent attitude, are willing to put the team first, and who have the intelligence and skill of a gold player.

We can all have bad games, but there's a difference between a player having a bad game and one who just decided that because they aren't winning lane or even just aren't SOLO carrying the game, they are going to turn off their brain and not try. They aren't having fun because they're not the star/solo queue hero this match? They decide to intentionally ruin any chance their team has of winning, and grief while baiting newer players on their team into following them and ending the game as fast as possible by either getting your team to ff or losing.

The system, board, and mods/others in authority on boards all excuse such play unless it's old Tyler1 level blatantly obvious and spam reported by all 9 others in the game though.

If you are regularly losing perfectly winnable games because your teammates are doing this crap in over half your games - in gold elo mind you - and you almost never encounter it happening on your opponents' team then there is an issue. Matchmaking is unfavorably biased against you. And moreover, such players should not be allowed to play ranked and ruin everyone else's games just because they aren't carrying or winning lane - that doesn't give them the right to grief and ensure their team has 0 chance to win. All those things you listed: play safe, ward, help a different lane, be positive, etc... I try to do them and ask no more than that type of play from my teammate win or lose. And when all I experience game in and game out is griefing, flame, blame, harassment, and false accusations of "toxic" nothing gets done about it.

I'll be the first to admit that I have said a few things over the past 2 seasons which went too far and which I wish I had never said. That however is NOT the issue I'd discuss today. THAT issue is the fact that griefing is ignored AND this is true even when it is paired with other perpetual toxic behavior: spam pinging legitimate item build and flaming player for their build

_spam ping someone's tp or ult when it wouldn't have made a difference or came available seconds AFTER a fight

flame someone for not bailing you out when you repeatedly make a stupid decision they warned you NOT to do and pinged you not to do

flame teammate for splitpushing when they can deal with enemy's attempts to stop them... such as 2v1 or 3v1... and refuse to do anything useful while teammate is pulling several enemies to their lane and giving you massive 4 man advantage (4v3, 4v2, etc.) elsewhere if you'd only take it; and if you STILL can't win, why are you forcing fight you can't win and then blame splitpusher for it?...and then go and do next point on list immediately after

go splitpush when you aren't equipped to deal with enemy answers to said push over and over (once is maybe just a mistake) at team's expense, flame team when you and/or they pay the price

act like kda or damage to champs is the only thing that matters in the game

and 100 other examples that I won't bother listing_

This stuff all gets ignored and/or excused in game. On boards, players and even mods respond with criticism towards the person pointing this stuff out rather than... yeah the system should probably be improved. "git gud" "you're just kda shaming" or "if you were good, you'd carry harder than they throw" or "you're being toxic" etc. etc.

So if someone - and rightfully so - is punished for calling a teammate an "idiot" or for telling them to "stop acting like a dumbass" then why the biased result of such a player facing that while another person can tell someone to "suck my *#A7" (paraphrasing last word) and nothing happens? Or someone play the opposite of how you suggest when losing or behind, grief away any chance their team has of making a comeback, harass their teammate(s) in game for asking them nicely to play how you suggest (safe, ward, etc.), AND say and ping hurtful, insulting, and/or toxic comments for much of the game and they are NOT punished? How is that possible? I can assure you it happens. All too often. And this is what I've been fighting the last 2 years or so to try to get changed.

Griefing mentality, give up and ensure your team can't come back because you don't like X about this match, under-the-radar toxicity/flame or harassment... it's all going unchecked and unpunished. And when a player goes to the boards hoping to have someone see common sense and galvanize some reform, they're met with more of the same. And when mods and others step in? They're attacking the OP and defending the toxic griefer and the broken system. That needs to change. You can't tell one person to control their actions and words perfectly while defending and making excuses for another person who is harassing the other one all game and doing everything in their power to make the game unwinnable. For one, it's poor business practice and invites only the most patient and saintly of people who (also) don't care about winning at all and the most toxic and vile of trolls and griefers to take over the population of a game which will inevitably lead to it's demise. More importantly though is that it goes against everything you should be standing for - protecting innocents, defending an honest player's right to have an enjoyable victory or loss, doing what is right, and improving the boards and the game. It's time to stop making excuses and start fighting for what's right. Just as you said... the above expectations you listed are realistic expectations for players even if they're losing lane or behind in a match as a team. To not even attempt such things or to flame and accuse someone of being toxic for laying out such advice in a positive, encouraging way should not be tolerated any more. Mistakes are mistakes and honest players learn from them, but people repeating the same bad decision(s) all game long are clearly not learning from them and are therefore not honest players truly trying to win and help their team. Let's stop lumping griefers in with honest players, sullying the name of honest players, and giving griefers a free pass.

ı Sona ı1/6/2019, 11:00:30 PM3 votes

You are not wrong.

One of the leading faults that lies in players is their ability to adjust, they try to play the game the same way even if the game may call for a different tactic. a A top laner who likes to 1 v 1 the enemy but keeps dying in the fight needs to learn to just focus on farming. A Mid laner who keeps getting ganked needs to learn to stop pushing so hard, not blaming the lack of ganks.

Etc. Etc.

The Highest Noon1/7/2019, 5:26:11 PM3 votes

TBH I feel that none of this would matter if Riot would fix it's matchmaking.

Well, not so much "fix" as much as improve it. It feels like every game I'm being grouped with half a team who should be playing intermediate bots. That is something that I feel leads to the most toxicity and flaming in this game, moreso than just general tilting from losses or such.

If the matchmaking system took into account your lane, role (ADC, Support, Mage, Tank, etc), and stats depending on the role (minions/minute, k/da, damage healed/dealt/taken, vision score, etc) then the health of this community would probably improve.

Besides all that, having been playing this game for going on 7 years now, the first five of which were full of boards constantly drilling the idea of "It's not them, it's you" into my head...at this point, if I'm still having the same damn complaints, it's probably not me. It feels even worse when you do give advice as respectable as possible yet you're on teams with players who only care about doing things their way.

Ungrateful Thug1/8/2019, 1:33:37 AM2 votes

I've never seen an instance where someone played better after being flamed (not criticized, but FLAMED). At best they stay the course and nothing changes, at worst they become pissed off and afk or start intentionally griefing. Chances are if they are playing like shit, they already know it, even if they don't outwardly acknowledge it.

Even if I dislike what someone is doing, I say nothing. Because nobody wants hear some random asshole cry in chat about how they should have dodged x skill shot. or how they should have used Exhaust sooner.

If you really feel like you need to request that someone do something differently, there are literally hundreds of ways to ask them in a way that isn't going to take some shitty, accusatory tone. There are ways to get your message across without pissing people off.

Inkling Commando1/6/2019, 8:24:24 PM2 votes

you make a valid point Not Jinx. in almost every game I see people are flaming each other, being toxic, making demands, crying to the enemy team to report someone, and overall making the game worse. I mean no offense to the players who play this game mode, but I blame ranked. they expect everyone to know what the hell they are doing and to win and will do anything they can to either ensure they win or to ensure the teammates who are doing terrible never play again. and even in norms people play to win not to have fun. I wasn't around for the old days but I bet the old days were like this too. there probably hasn't been any point where people play for fun. and long as there is a surrender button people will either play to win or cry and surrender.

Jeoster1/6/2019, 11:05:49 PM2 votes

It's not even as much people feeding, the same people will also refuse to surrender a game they lost and basically hold you hostage. This both frustrates you for the next game and ruins your time for the current one, and leaving isn't an option. And to be honest, If I where to be a bit of a devil's advocate, letting out the bile that the other player has been responsible for can be liberating, obviously it's not going to make you win, but some things are just lost anyway, so you might as well let them have it. Of course do it in ways that won't get you banned.

PS: I am not advocating flaming, but the nature of the game is such that it promotes it at least in some situations and complete pacifism isn't good either nor is it going you to feel better nor is it in fact going to make you magically win a game that is too far gone either.

IOffMeta GtOvrIt1/7/2019, 7:43:33 PM1 votes

Guys the vast majority of league players aren't going to be able to solo carry most games. There are millions of players and the last time I checked the average league player was .... Silver 5? Most of these guys in youtube videos are well above average and though they can make it sound so simple variables and executing those concepts are pretty difficult for most of us.

Dukues1/7/2019, 10:56:07 PM1 votes

Can't really turn a game around when it ends at 20 mins off one "mistake". ........ This advice was way better back when this was actually a strategy game and not League of brainless one shots.

DespicableCee1/7/2019, 11:54:43 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Totally Not Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3cbgqLQP,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-06T18:51:23.721+0000)

It starts with accountability.

I get it, it's frustrating when your teammates aren't doing well. But believe it or not, a more productive answer to '[Champion] why are you feeding' or any similar sentiment is 'How can I help [lane, champion] do better?'

I will admit, I am not the best at playing this game. Many of us aren't. But a solid mindset that even professionals will tell you, is to make sure you realise that you can only control yourself.

Bot lane behind for x reasons? See if there's an opportunity to help them. If not, snowball another lane. Don't be an ass to them. Jungle full of death? Ward safely, avoid chasing kills through there, and communicate your needs.

There is a reason that pings exist; to communicate effectively in a minimal amount of time.

I will admit, I am not immune to letting frustration out in-game. It took me a long time to learn that doing so is problematic, and only makes my life worse. So even if I'm tilted, I will do my best despite being angry at my team to figure out what I can do.

Dying a lot? Focus on playing back and staying safe. Vision down? Place wards any safe place I can.

Yelling at your teammates, or even questioning their decisions after the fact, sets you up for failure. It's a team game, but for some reason (especially below Gold from my experience) there's this unfortunate mentality that you're the only one who matters. Granted, there are several design elements in the game that make this perception valid. But, since the players can't control Riot, we have to start with someone. And that's ourselves.

Answer me this question. I got permanently banned from being frustrated of playing this game. For me Its sickening to watch people not understanding the basics like you mentioned. You mentioned dying a lot primarly because you can argue people dont play that role. As a result 4 other people have to suffer because of this. Where do we draw the line at yelling at our teammates, expectations? A lot of players from my experience are very selfish individual picking master yi , yasuo etc instead of looking at what the team needs. I get angry because people can just go to rank with zero CARE and think its ok to screw other people over. If we complain or just tilt we get punished but not that action that led to it. I want to play a good game just want your opinion on my vent. Its hard to address accountability when others won't even meet you half way and just keep feeding and farming. Its just practice to them and blame its "preseason".

Ferrinova1/8/2019, 2:43:52 AM1 votes

I had a bad team and i was asking if they needed any help and they said not from a noob lol. thanks for the advise it really helps.

woodvsmurph1/14/2019, 1:44:27 AM1 votes

So when my team can't win a 5v5 because the enemy team is way too ahead and I've confirmed this by trying to help them so instead I...

Splitpush 1v3 and give my team what SHOULD be an easy 4v2 except they refuse to work with me and int and throw the game over and over while acting like it's my fault for splitting? I'm the bad guy? They're just having a bad game? I should ask what I can do to help them? I should just get good and 1v5? Yeah... all very realistic answers lol. I mean RTO (challenger renekton main) barely won a 3v5 recently with one of his teammates being far better than the average gold elo player - and that's a challenger smurfing in gold with teammates that were at least willing to work with him.

So basically, you'd need to be a diamond or higher smurfing in iron elo to pull that sort of thing off... anything less and you are just screwed. And some games are unwinnable like that. Everyone should run into one here or there thanks to rng or matchmaking, people having bad games, etc. But if you're running into that kind of game in something like 3 out of every 5 games... there's an issue.

Nice thought... and I agree with what you've said to an extent, but there are extremes like I've mentioned where the above thinking does not apply. It is instead a complete failure of both matchmaking and the punishment reform system. The former because such players might honestly be having a bad game and simply don't understand anything other than aram after laning phase... but then they shouldn't BE in an elo where that's common knowlege and all-but-required to climb to anywhere near said elo. The latter because if they actually do know and they are simply REFUSING to work with their team even when their team adapts to them multiple times to try to help them, then they are making a clear effort to LOSE the game on purpose. If it's once or twice a mistake... we all have those - it's a bad game. But when it's many many times over the whole course of a game, when better approaches are offered as options and the player simply refuses to try any of them, and when they are doing plays they clearly know from SEVERAL previous failures doing the exact same play they are doing again that a play is BAD and WILL NOT WORK GUARANTEED... that player is griefing and/or inting. And THAT kind of play needs to stop being excused. It's not having a bad game... it's inting/griefing and it is just as toxic MORE TOXIC than most things said in chat which get punished. Chat can be muted. Intentional feeding, griefing, soft inting cannot.

If I "accidentally" trip and punch you where the sun doesn't shine, it's an accident. But if I keep doing that every time I run into you, yet I can run an obstacle course with numerous things all designed to trip me at various heights from toe level to ceiling height and can do that over and over without falling once throughout the same time period as I am magically constantly tripping and punching you, then it's obviously not an "accident" that I"m punching you. Once would be an accident, twice is suspicious, three or more times? You're definitely doing something about it and everyone else from the office will have your back. But somehow in game to suggest the same thing about intentionally feeding or griefing players is... toxic. So I guess you standing up for yourself at the office if someone were to do that to you would also be... toxic. Funny how most of you would excuse the behavior in one setting and get mad at the guy being punched "where the sun doesn't shine" over and over again for accusing the other of doing it on purpose, but if done in a real life setting at some office, we'd all be on the side of the guy getting punched.

Me yet again fruitlessly pointing out the flawed logic of Riot, mods and such, and the boards players who constantly downvote because omg we have to defend someone who's essentially punching their teammate... over and over again. Downvote the toxic jerk who thinks just cuz he's being punched 8, 9, 10, or more times by a teammate in the same match and in the same spot and always "accidentally" that it's not an accident. How can he not see it's an accident? So here's to another 8+ downvotes and another half dozen dumb replies by boards members. Drink up... and protect your

Jeoster1/6/2019, 11:27:36 PM1 votes

Leavebuster would mean like 20 minutes waiting for que for 5 games, that means 1 hour and 10 minutes of waiting, even the worst of lost games aren't going to last that much from the point they have been pretty much decided. Hence, If you don't want that, it's still more practical to stick around even if you are just suiciding into the enemy team. Besides, the much more common case of surrenders not working are the 3 yes 2 no and even in early stages the 4 yes 1 no where in fact 1 person is forcing 4 in a game that should they leave they may or may not get leave buster.

As for your hostage comment: Lol.

This Is Your Dad1/7/2019, 2:58:31 AM1 votes

I always thought the easiest way to turn a game around was to flip my monitor upside down. Good to know there are better ways.

Padoµch1/7/2019, 1:20:29 PM1 votes

Yelling at your teammates, or even questioning their decisions after the fact, sets you up for failure.

There is a sadly big difference when you are playing in low Silver, and in higher elo. When my bott lane goes 2/9 in the early game, then they group mid, we cannot really stop them. In that moment the toxicity rises to the stratosphere. The higher elo you get, the more toxicity you come across. Its because you may be playing well, but when someone screws up 2 times, you are punished, with virtually no chance of comeback.

ZaFishbone1/7/2019, 2:16:55 PM1 votes

Nobody is going to listen to you, you know. People are just going to continue doing the same mistakes all game, not once trying to change their play style, and only flaming their better teammates for not babysitting them. Do you know why people complain about damage so much these days? It's because now their mistakes are taxed much more harshly than before, when they could get away with the dumbest thing imaginable.

Brain Errör 4041/7/2019, 4:53:06 PM1 votes

This is the mentality I've since adopted getting back into league. However, I can only let out huge sighs playing this game every time I see my teammates get slapped around. Some times, them playing poorly makes me take bigger risks, which, if they don't pay off, ends up with me playing more poorly. Of course, that's still on me. But even with accountability, it won't help you win a game if your team isn't up to par.

All in all, still a good read.

sphinxthelion71/7/2019, 6:33:59 PM1 votes

Why not fix the bad matchmaking and ridiculous MMR system? In fact just get rid of the MMR system and do a straight ranked ladder.

And as for your suggestion of helping a failing lane: Do you play this game? I don't know how many times I will gank a lane several times in a couple minutes and they just face plant the moment I leave their lane. It's not like you can just baby-sit a failing lane. I mean, you can, but whatever you were supposed to be doing will then fail too. You can't baby sit bot because then your mid gets to free farm and take your turret. The game doesn't work the way you are suggesting.