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I got my account suspended for playing trundle smite support

fingolfin14··27 votes·12,430 views

Hey all, I am a plat 3 player that loves to theorycraft new strategies.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=fingolfin14

Here is my opgg, and as you can see, my trundle winrate is not the most impressive, but it has hovered around 50% winrate for the past few days.

I basically got reported for taking smite on trundle, and stealing enemy jungle level 1 instead of going to lane. However, I help out my team immediately after, by usually ganking mid/top right after using my pillar.

Afterwards, I have unsealed spellbook, so if possible, I immediately turn one of my available summoners (smite/flash) into teleport to help out my adc, and buy relic shield to lane with him. I usually keep my smite to help secure objectives including scuttle crab and dragon, but my build is entirely support (and focuses on peeling for my adc).

I do admit, I do 'fail to communicate', but the only odd part about this strategy is level 1, in which I go to take enemy jungle instead of laning. But I fail to see anywhere stated that as a support you have to lane with your ad carry at the start of the game immediately to be considered not trolling.

It is also mentioned that my account got suspended for roaming a lot. I literally have this playstyle on my other supports such as bard, but have not got suspended for the same playstyle.

The reason I do this strategy is because trundle's early game laning as a support is completely abysmal, and you are basically soaking up xp without any tools to trade back to the enemy.

Ticket:

"Hey fingolfin14,

I see that you recently started this Trundle trend, I and yea i wouldn't say its the most meta of roles or play atm which is fine and completley viable, I remember when supports actually did go roam for a bit ie; roaming Ali with boots 5.

I feel like if you did indeed want to be successful when pulling out this secret strat and thats completley fine, but i also see that you failed to communicate these sick plays with your team in the pre-game chats. This lack of communication is huge and can be pretty tilting in a sense especially since you are playing a ranked game and allot can be on the line for anyone whether it be your teammates or your opponents.

I also see that you are currently in Plat which is awesome kudo to you~ On the other hand if you knew you were going to go support trundle which is completley fine i wouldve preferred you take a support summoner skill at least to put your adc's mind at ease. Plat is a pretty high rank for most people and at that level of competetion any small gap that your opponent can snatch from you and they will as the hunger in competetive ranked is very high. I have recieved several reports from teammates and opponents agreeing that this type of behavior, lack of communication and lack of co-operation can be seen as griefing or assissting the enemy team in a ranked environement.

Iv'e reviewed your recent games and the logs definitley let me know that you don't coordinate with your team properly at all, i have read several instances where you leave your bottom lane partner high and dry and when they get crushed you just proceed to say don't blame me.

Below are a few examples of how this can be percieved as griefing, sure you probably didn't have an awful time but that one teammate facing a 2v1 can be decimimating when it comes to team morale. In most of these instances even your teammates agree with your adc that you do leave them high and dry:

[6:16] Jax: lucian can't even 1v2 [6:26] fingolfin14 (Trundle): all he needed was stay under tower

[2018-04-23 03:20:18 PDT] Cootins: gg [2018-04-23 03:20:23 PDT] Orianna Bôt: you guys left your ad alone [2018-04-23 03:20:59 PDT] MingUhLing: yeah [2018-04-23 03:21:02 PDT] MingUhLing: pretty weird

[8:42] Twitch: I'm about to afk [8:55] Twitch: trundle [8:55] Twitch: come [8:56] Twitch: to lane [8:57] Twitch: pls [8:59] Twitch: I'm so far behind

14:07] Caitlyn: ive been 1v2ing for half the game [14:12] Caitlyn: trundle is level 65 [14:14] Caitlyn: 6* [14:26] Caitlyn: but he keeps roaming [15:20] fingolfin14 (Trundle): well no wards

I will not post anymore evidence as it is apparent that you were griefing whether it was intentional or not, your lack of communication and co-ordination with your team only served to penalize you and your teammates in your ranked games. I would consider moving forward that you better communicate with your teammates what and how you want to pull of certain plays. As they can be super powerful and odd as most players wouldnt know how to deal with certain situations ie; lane swapping early support roaming etc. and to avoid any possible reports that may come off as you trolling in game, when really you just want to try out different opening techniques.

With all of this being said i cannot lift this 2-week suspension on your account as it was warranted and will stand by this decision. It wasn't just one game you decided to bust out the sick plays but several, i do agree your winrate is actually really good having it around 50% but that doesn't justify the lack of communication and cooperation exhibited by you throughout the 18 games you played. If you have any other further questions or conerns regarding this 2-week suspenion or any other at all please feel free to contact me at player support i'll be here to help out in anyway that i can.

Raz Riot Games Player Support Rengars Fluffy"

100 Comments

redniwediS20 votes

I have to say I'm a little disappointed in Riot right now. I can see why a warning could be useful here, but there is no such thing as "unintentional griefing". Griefing is a very intentional act, and I would personally like to see this recognized.

Informing people who are attempting non-meta strategies that they have to communicate with their team is a very reasonable response, and punishments are often used as warnings, but this sort of language is not okay.

Chermorg18 votes

Fully agree with this.

Their policy is to not ban or punish these cases but to talk to the player like the support agent did. That policy was implemented after the singed support case. If the support ticket copied is legit, this ban needs removed if the player agrees to start communicating. That's not my opinion - it's what Riot themselves said their policy going forward was going to be.

MegaHuff1 votes

I even remember being told essentially "you can't tell somebody else how the best way to win is." I agree and disagree with that -- there isn't one set way to win. Hell, I've even done things while ignoring what my team says because I just personally think my plan of action is better, not because I want to flat out ignore them.

But it sure is disheartening to see such blatant hypocrisy out of the report system that can potentially get people, some of which have spend a pretty penny on the game, restricted or even banned. If you wanna punish something like meta and/or playstyle, it should at least be consistent. I remember being straight up told after mentioning laners that just sit in one lane and refuse to communicate with their team as an example, that I can't tell them how to play, and that I just think my way of playing is the only way to play.

Not a very clear standard is set.

Devilreaper XIII2 votes

{quoted}

Fully agree with this.

Their policy is to not ban or punish these cases but to talk to the player like the support agent did. That policy was implemented after the singed support case. If the support ticket copied is legit, this ban needs removed if the player agrees to start communicating. That's not my opinion - it's what Riot themselves said their policy going forward was going to be.

define not communicating please, i myself find it ridiculous you have to state anything in champ select, as to how or what summs you will use and playstyle O.o yeah its a teamgame but in all seriousnes if this wasn't ranked than i don't see the major issue here, aren't players supposed to try out new/different stuff?

does this mean riot can ban you for not pinging/chatting???? that seems a bit excessive if you ask me. as a player you should be full aware that not everyone would be in the mood for chats/pings or is capable of communicating properly when you don't play with a premade team of 5.

isn't roaming a part of the game? it can be an viable option, who said you need to restrict yourself to your lane 24/7????? even the LoL tutorial is an mess, where you can go 2-2-1 or 2-1-2 or 1-2-2, so if no ones goes jungle than who was given jungle in draft is at fault? what if you go support top, mid or jungle instead of bot??? is that punishable too?

and even if you communicate this prematch in champ select, there is no dodging without punishment either, you most likely either won't see play trying out new/different stuff or you get punished for not communicating....

or am i wrong/forgetting/missing something?

Scary Door17 votes

If it was a normal, go for it man, you do you.

If it is ranked. You bet I would report you, even if we won. As someone that has played in Plat (seasons 4-7), I have seen a few of these off-meta strategies attempted and they almost always fail.

I guess I used to be more tolerant of this off-meta type of stuff when League wasn't so snowbally, when games would last 40 minutes and damage wasn't totally off the chart. It's hard enough to win bot lane in a 2v2, but if the support roams/has smite I know (if I'm playing adc, which I basically never do) that I'm at a disadvantage. In Plat, there is less skill disparity than there is in Bronze or Silver, games are generally a bit more evenly matched (albeit still not ideal), therefore, this type of strategy almost guarantees bot lane loses and in the current state of League, if bot loses, you lose.

So, no, I'm not okay with this, I'd report you for it and hope you would get punished. It's nothing against you personally, but until Riot fixes the game I'm afraid I have to put my foot down and say "no" to this shit.

Azrsky7 votes

100% unequivocally agree with this statement. As an ADC player, it is already a coin toss whether or not you will get a support who won't just completely lose you the lane and actually knows what they are supposed to be doing. Why you would think that trying something like this in a RANKED game where you are affecting the LP of 4 other players is okay, especially in a meta like this, is beyond my understanding.

Knowing how the game and this meta works, you should understand how much of a snowball effect occurs even off of just one kill/one item/average CS lead/small level advantages. Having smite as a summoner in the bot lane already puts your 2v2 capabilities at an extreme disadvantage in lane while also crippling your ability to peel for your ADC, which you should be doing, in team fight scenarios. So not only are you negatively affecting the lane phase, but the team fight and macro phases after lane as well.

As an ADC, despite the popular(but wrong) belief that they are too strong, you must rely on your teammates at every point of the game to help you scale and to peel for you to make sure that you are able to dish out damage and survive. At any point in the game, if you are caught out alone, you are more than likely going to die with basically no counter-play depending on who comes to kill you. On top of that, turrets are relatively useless after level 3 or 4 as a defense mechanism to prevent people from diving you, so your assumption that it is okay that the ADC stays under the tower alone for extended periods of time is wrong. The ability to deny CS and EXP from the ADC in a 2v1 lane is all too simple of a mechanic, and, by leaving your ADC to fend for himself, you are in essence completely crippling his ability to CS, get EXP, and have any kind of impact on the game. Should it be this way? I don't think so, but Riot brought this meta to the game and as such we need to follow the proper methods of playing in order to allow every player to be competitive and climb the rankings ladder.

Finally, it seems that there have been numerous complaints from your teammates that you are refusing to react appropriately to. After how many games of all of your teammates telling you that you shouldn't be doing that do you begin to realize that you are taking the wrong approach? Theory crafting is great and all, but the meta is there for a reason and unfortunately you cannot deviate much from the meta currently because of the very nature of the meta.

Venompaw3 votes

{quoted}

100% unequivocally agree with this statement. As an ADC player, it is already a coin toss whether or not you will get a support who won't just completely lose you the lane and actually knows what they are supposed to be doing. Why you would think that trying something like this in a RANKED game where you are affecting the LP of 4 other players is okay, especially in a meta like this, is beyond my understanding.

Knowing how the game and this meta works, you should understand how much of a snowball effect occurs even off of just one kill/one item/average CS lead/small level advantages. Having smite as a summoner in the bot lane already puts your 2v2 capabilities at an extreme disadvantage in lane while also crippling your ability to peel for your ADC, which you should be doing, in team fight scenarios. So not only are you negatively affecting the lane phase, but the team fight and macro phases after lane as well.

As an ADC, despite the popular(but wrong) belief that they are too strong, you must rely on your teammates at every point of the game to help you scale and to peel for you to make sure that you are able to dish out damage and survive. At any point in the game, if you are caught out alone, you are more than likely going to die with basically no counter-play depending on who comes to kill you. On top of that, turrets are relatively useless after level 3 or 4 as a defense mechanism to prevent people from diving you, so your assumption that it is okay that the ADC stays under the tower alone for extended periods of time is wrong. The ability to deny CS and EXP from the ADC in a 2v1 lane is all too simple of a mechanic, and, by leaving your ADC to fend for himself, you are in essence completely crippling his ability to CS, get EXP, and have any kind of impact on the game. Should it be this way? I don't think so, but Riot brought this meta to the game and as such we need to follow the proper methods of playing in order to allow every player to be competitive and climb the rankings ladder.

Finally, it seems that there have been numerous complaints from your teammates that you are refusing to react appropriately to. After how many games of all of your teammates telling you that you shouldn't be doing that do you begin to realize that you are taking the wrong approach? Theory crafting is great and all, but the meta is there for a reason and unfortunately you cannot deviate much from the meta currently because of the very nature of the meta.

The downside to falling strategies should be losing games and not bans and his record is okay ish.

Also, as you noted, this game snowballs. So when it works, it works spectacularly, and when it fails, it fails just as hard.

There's no point to following the meta because you have to outskill people. Break the meta, so you can win by surprise because you know what your deviation is capable of or you discover something new that works.

Dakkimchi7 votes

Cheese should be embraced, but it should not happen at the expense of other players. It's fine to do this strat as a solo laner because you are gambling yourself and yourself alone. Sure, it will lead to a loss if it fails, but if you tried your best to win your own lane, it's fine. A bad game, if you will. If you are doing this as a support, you directly punish a teammate who plays in your lane. When you queue for support, you should realize that your job is different from others: you don't farm minions or jungle camps. The reason Riot gave support better gold income than other MOBA games like DoTA is so that you can sacrifice farm for your carry, die for your carry, and still make an impact in a game. This cheese goes against the definition of a support. It's a situation where you set up a player to be in a lose-lose situation. If that doesn't fit the style, the player should not play support.

Echostormxx2 votes

I love how the ADCS get to whine in 1v2s but if for example, the mid laner or top laner was in a 1v2 they’d just dismiss it.

Dakkimchi2 votes

They are justified in doing so. jungle 1v2s and bot lane 1v2s are completely different scenarios. The support lives in that lane while jg just stops by for the gank. Solo laners also have kits that allow them to escape ganks, so they can still grab farm and experience. When a support irresponsibly roams, a glass cannon champion with no defensive or peel abilities cannot survive a 1v2 lane, let alone farm.

Echostormxx2 votes

No, I mean in the rare occasion that it’s a 2 vs 1 top and no jungle. It’s happened to me twice in ranked and basically your teammates just tell you to fuck off and deal with it. Meanwhile if bot laner is 2 vs 1, the whole team would proceed to flame the support and try and help out the adc.

Dakkimchi2 votes

That's fine, toplaners have the kits and mostly the tankiness to brush it off and farm. If you are talking about lane swaps, Riot changed the game so it heavily punishes that play unless the solo laner dies. It's easier to kill the ADC than a toplaner, and there is no lane swap required to punish the team that is 2v1.

Azrsky6 votes

You are in a ranked game scenario where you affect 4 other players on multiple fronts. Not only are you potentially losing other people LP, but you are wasting 15+ minutes of their time that they do not get back. On top of that, you are not communicating which is only causing other players to become increasingly frustrated. I'm sorry, but this is the definition of trolling and toxic behavior

The meta is the meta for a reason. Meta champions and gameplay have always been the superior method in ranked in order to win games and climb. There is nothing wrong with theory crafting as long as the proposed gameplay works within the meta. The problem is that THIS meta does not allow for much deviation. Any kind of analysis will show you that leaving your ADC to fend for himself is extremely detrimental to that player's ability to have any kind of impact on the game and as such the chances of winning the game are heavily decreased. There is a difference between playing trundle support with proper summoners and staying in lane to help your ADC most of the time and what was proposed as "theory crafting" gameplay as described above by this player.

DrStL3 votes

I totally agree with this post. [zombie-brand-clap]

MegaHuff1 votes

I like this reply, how it sees both sides. I recognize personally that certain things are just bad ideas because of how they don't work in the current state of the game. Do I think it should be punishable though?

Absolutely not.

Maybe Rito could solve this some way; I'm not exactly sure how. And it's justifiable if somebody gets stressed over a strategy they don't agree with, especially when no concession is made.

I've complained about the same thing, but the result from my complaints is just getting told to "find a team" if I want to do a certain strat.

Outside of that, it's completely not okay to punish this kind of thing unless meta-enforcing is going to be a thing, and it would have to be clarified what exactly is viable in terms of being punished and what isn't.

Ifneth11 votes

I agree with Riot. If you want to pull something off-meta, fine, but you have to tell your teammates, who will be expecting you to play meta and reasonably interpret a Support taking Smite and not going botlane as likely trolling, no pun intended.

It’s just like pinging that you’re coming to roam to a lane or gank it, or pinging Baron or dragon. You can only expect your teammates to extend you the benefit of the doubt as long as you extend them the courtesy of an explanation.

fingolfin143 votes

But i DO go bot lane, its simply that I take one camp before teleporting back to botlane. It's just I start level 1 elsewhere.

Ifneth4 votes

Even just spending Level 1 stealing a camp, roaming mid or bot, and then TP’ing to lane is quite a bit off what your marksman would expect. Just tell your team and this problem could be avoided.

It’s not like what you do has no bad consequences. Your marksman is vulnerable to being zoned off XP, poked out of lane, or all-in’d. You are alone in the enemy jungle without anyone knowing why—you could easily be collapsed on even if your team is close. You’re gambling with your carry’s lane as well as your own.

There’s also some psychology for the ADC in particular. Their class of champion is helpless early: tiny base stats and abilities balanced around a duo lane. Their support is supposed to keep them safe and be the other part of that duo. Your no-comms all-cheese strategy left them feeling abandoned.

Ph03n1xdust5 votes

Then they should write in the summoner code that not meeting your teammates expectations is punishable. (And they should punish ALL these cases, not just randomly picking some.)

ΦmalphintoΦ11 votes

sorry man but deserved, im glade to see Riot taking actions on these cases.

Terozu4 votes

Except no. The community has repeatedly shown that that players shouldn't be banned for these types of things.

Percentages1 votes

{quoted}

Except no. The community has repeatedly shown that that players shouldn't be banned for these types of things.

The community doesn’t decide though...

Terozu1 votes

But enough community support can overturn a ruling. Such as Singed and Nunu smite supports.

DragonMastaWolfy9 votes

It is also mentioned that my account got suspended for roaming a lot. I literally have this playstyle on my other supports such as bard, but have not got suspended for the same playstyle.

ADC player here. It's fine for the support to roam a bit, but when they're off roaming for extended periods of time, laning becomes VERY hard for us since it's essentially a 1v2 situation (of course there are a few exceptions where we can manage.) If the enemy is smart, they're going to severely punish the ADC for even stepping close to the farm and will apply some harsh pressure EVEN BELOW THE TOWER. Tower dives aren't risky in this meta, especially against a squishy who has no reliable peel to counter them with. In this situation, there's nothing for the ADC to do and they become incredibly frustrated. If they are going to blame someone for their condition, it's going to be the support who left them in to drown.

[6:16] Jax: lucian can't even 1v2 [6:26] fingolfin14 (Trundle): all he needed was stay under tower

[2018-04-23 03:20:18 PDT] Cootins: gg [2018-04-23 03:20:23 PDT] Orianna Bôt: you guys left your ad alone [2018-04-23 03:20:59 PDT] MingUhLing: yeah [2018-04-23 03:21:02 PDT] MingUhLing: pretty weird

[8:42] Twitch: I'm about to afk [8:55] Twitch: trundle [8:55] Twitch: come [8:56] Twitch: to lane [8:57] Twitch: pls [8:59] Twitch: I'm so far behind

14:07] Caitlyn: ive been 1v2ing for half the game [14:12] Caitlyn: trundle is level 65 [14:14] Caitlyn: 6* [14:26] Caitlyn: but he keeps roaming [15:20] fingolfin14 (Trundle): well no wards

See? Last night, I was in a similar match as these guys where my went top for 5 minutes and left me to fend for myself against a Varus/Karma lane. Since my champ was outranged, I couldn't stop them, my tower fell, and I was useless for the rest of the match. (Then he blamed me for it, but that's besides the point.)

While the off-meta Trundle thing might've contributed, I'm positive that this playstyle, which many of your teammates find detrimental/toxic, is what led to your ban. Not communicating it probably added salt to the wounds.

Snowman Arc9 votes

"Plat is a pretty high rank for most people and at that level of competetion any small gap that your opponent can snatch from you and they will as the hunger in competetive ranked is very high."

This. Even though I don't agree with a suspension ( a warning would at least be better), a punishment is justified.

People need to realize something. The things you do have different consequences, based on the context. This generally means that pulling off a "weird" strategy, like what you do here, will have different results if you are in bronze and if you are in platinum. In bronze, you are probably gonna get away with it, in fact it might actually be better than the traditional 2v2 bottom lane. The enemy jungler will tilt because his buff was stolen, and the enemy bot lane won't take advantage of the 1v2 situation.

In Platinum though, this is different. For one, they will recognize there are two smites on the enemy team, so you are probably gonna get denied, or at least be warded, when you try to go for a camp steal, so it's not safe in general. Secondly, most important, the enemy bot lane will take advantage of you missing, resulting in your ADC being zoned out of XP and farm, which is not ideal. It leaves him being vulnerable in-game and frustrated in real life. This is created by you, which can be said to be griefing, even though you have no plan of doing so. It also gives the enemy bot lane a big advantage, so it is essentially feeding (even though not the intent).

Since this is an unconventional strategy you are trying to pull off, you need to at least let your team know. Since there are general lines that people play accordingly (top - jungle - mid - duo bot), that's what people expect without communicating it in the champion select chat. That's the general plan everyone goes by, so there is no need to mention it, and it's generally the plan that's working the best, since everyone, from bronzies, to challengers, to pro players - teams follow it. IF something wants to try something new, which would probably be not ideal, they need to mention it in the chat, so that the players know what your new strategy is and how they should play this out, even what champions they can pick. If you don't do that, then you are running the risk of unintentional griefing and feeding.

For example, in this situation, if you explained to your team that you want to pull of support Trundle with Smite, for one if they didn't agree with it, or thought it was risky, or saw your op.gg and only saw defeats with horrible KDAs, then it's justified that they won't want you to play it. But if they actually agreed to it, then you could explain to them how you are gonna play out level 1, so maybe the Twitch could have picked a safer ADC, like Caitlyn, to deal with the early 1v2.

Now, the thing is that in almost all games you tried this strategy, you fed your ass off. You lost most of your games, and most of those you won, you had a horrible KDA, meaning most probably that your strategy was not good. It was probably toxic to play with, and you kept trying to pull it off, even though you kept seeing no results.

Kei1437 votes

We can't read your ticket.

Only you can access that support ticket.

Echostormxx7 votes

I've seen a lot of crap like this happen before. I love how Riot justifies it as "lack of communication". Does this mean if I don't say exactly what I'm doing in champ select every game and what my strategy is I will be banned? Do I have to say "I'm gonna farm until level 3 and then all in as kled try and get summs, and then I'll roam somewhere". Honestly, no one actually communicates strategies, so why should something that is "off meta" be any more susceptible to a ban ? I mean seriously, how can you expect to ban someone for playing the game their own way? This discourages creativity and I strongly disapprove Riot. What happens if your teammates decide to report you anyway even if you communicate to them? I was annoyed at the Singed ban, and I saw the Nunu ban too. This feels the same for me. Honestly, more than half of the players in Silver should be banned for lack of communication. Find a better reason to enforce LCS meta Riot. At least try to come up with a valid bullshit excuse.

Snowman Arc4 votes

You are wrong. In almost all games, people play with the same mindset - strategy. They pick a top laner, a mid laner, a jungler and two players go to the bottom lane. Also, the roles are mostly the same. An ADC and a support in the bottom lane, for example. So, almost all players pretty much embrace this strategy to begin with. How you play out your top lane is different for everyone and that's because there is the human variable in it. The singlest misstep can lead to a whole different laning phase in any particular match up.

With all these in mind, anything that steps out of the commonly-accepted strategy should at least be mentioned. If, for example, you think that a duo top lane without a jungler would be good for some weird reason, you at least need to tell that to your team, because it's something different from what everyone expects. Since it's probably not going to be a good idea, you should ask them if you can play that way. If they reply no, then you should avoid using it.

Echostormxx2 votes

So you think someone else should be able to determine the way you play? Does this mean I can report my lux support for taking teleport in lane because I think Lux should be a mid laner and that teleport is for top laners? Can I report my adc for taking ignite or playing a mage bot? Is this trolling? If so I strongly disagree. I think someone who is being negative and reporting you for something as trivial as going into the jungle for a minute or two and then teleporting to bot lane is actually more in the wrong than said player. Also you can't say "I'm wrong", because it's my opinion. There is no right or wrong in this case, it's whether you believe they should be punished or not. Riot is the only one enforcing the meta. In other mobas you can roam around with support or go to different lanes. You can play a mage bot, or you can go into jungle as a support. You say almost all players embrace the strategy. In real life, do we punish people for not conforming to what most people do? No. I don't think it should be any different in a video game. This is my opinion and you're welcome to disagree... I think Riot is contradicting themselves by giving out these sort of punishments. No where in the Summoner's Code does it directly say "You cannot take smite when you queue for support", "You cannot go into the jungle when you queue for support", "You are not allowed to leave your adc alone in lane". It says be adaptive, but that really isn't specific enough. Anyway, I doubt they ban people for picking an ad mid when we already have a full AD comp. You see what I'm saying? They really aren't consistent at all and I haven't heard of other cases where people who didn't "Adapt" with a regular pick got banned. They're specifically targeting these picks only because people reported them more, rather than keeping an open mind.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Look, dude, when you are playing normal games, you can try whatever the fuck you want. For all I care, you can play duo jungle Soraka - Janna. I wouldn't give a fuck.

When I play ranked games though, I want everyone in my team to try their best to win. This means that I want them to put 100% of their effort into the game, and also pick things and play the game in a way that's most effective and efficient. It's not my rules, it's the nature of ranked - competitive gameplay. You MUST try to win with all your effort.

With that said, then no, I won't accept Lux with Teleport in the support role, except if there is a reason you do that. For example, if this is the first time you want to try that, and you play horribly with it and are the reason why we got stomped in lane, then sorry, but I will report you. Why? Because you tried to play something without knowing if it's good or not, not having tested it in any other game, and just THOUGHT it was good. I remember playing with a Zilean support recently, who had Teleport and Flash, and I believe he has Unsealed Spellbook as well. The thing is that this guy had played quite a lot of games with this strategy and he had something like a 60% winrate over 50 games. That guy HAS TRIED this strategy and for whatever reason, IT'S WORKING and it shows by his winrate.

That's the difference. If you don't want to play a meta strategy, that's fine, as long as your supposed other strategy is proven to be working. So, having a Janna jungle? No thanks, because I know that it can't work. If, with SOME WEIRD REASON, some account had a 60% winrate with Janna jungle, then I could be ok with it, because THAT ACCOUNT is doing something RIGHT that HELPS HIM WIN GAMES.

Echostormxx2 votes

But.... someone who has a low winrate with a regular strategy should be subject to the same thing no? If someone has a 44% winrate as swain but plays them anyway, I should report them because their strategy isn't working.

Devilreaper XIII1 votes

{quoted}

But.... someone who has a low winrate with a regular strategy should be subject to the same thing no? If someone has a 44% winrate as swain but plays them anyway, I should report them because their strategy isn't working.

instead they/you could help them..... how is reporting this going to fix it? they/you ruin it for someone else, just because they aren't good at the game/champion or failed at something but keep tweaking and trying? [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Echostormxx1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3bYZLsX1,comment-id=000b00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-19T17:52:36.459+0000)

instead they/you could help them..... how is reporting this going to fix it? they/you ruin it for someone else, just because they aren't good at the game/champion or failed at something but keep tweaking and trying? [zombie-brand-mindblown]

It was a rhetorical question. I thought it was obvious considering how rediculous the claim that everyone with a strategy that isn't working should be banned is.

Devilreaper XIII1 votes

{quoted}

It was a rhetorical question. I thought it was obvious considering how rediculous the claim that everyone with a strategy that isn't working should be banned is.

i know thats why it says ''you/they'' and not ''you'' :) didn't want to exclude you from the emphasis on your own point was all ^^

Bot With Dumbass2 votes

hey im a bard main and i too got banned i used to run smite ignite bard to help dragon control i got a 2 week ban for throwing even tho my win rate and games were ok on bard that is why i have yet to touch the game again since been 4 months i sent a ticket and riot said based on my match history and play i was trolling lol

Snowman Arc4 votes

You played 3 bard games, lost all 3, and your KDA was 2.3 / 5 / 3. If that's not indicative that your strategy is probably losing your team these games, then I don't know what is.

Gabresol2 votes

They implemented spellbook and getting smite as anything but a jungler, no matter how many games you wind and jungle buffs you steal, is still reportable...

Chermorg2 votes

[deleted]

MUSHROOM MIDGET2 votes

yeah I don't understand this. the player seems to have a strategy of supporting but also roaming to steal the enemies camps and to gank other lanes.

this is against the rules? is it illegal to roam at all? or only if it is too much? how much is too much? I would like to hear some clarification on this issue as I often play support but like to roam to try to make plays.

Venompaw1 votes

You are in a ranked game scenario where you affect 4 other players on multiple fronts. Not only are you potentially losing other people LP, but you are wasting 15+ minutes of their time that they do not get back. On top of that, you are not communicating which is only causing other players to become increasingly frustrated. I'm sorry, but this is the definition of trolling and toxic behavior

The meta is the meta for a reason. Meta champions and gameplay have always been the superior method in ranked in order to win games and climb. There is nothing wrong with theory crafting as long as the proposed gameplay works within the meta. The problem is that THIS meta does not allow for much deviation. Any kind of analysis will show you that leaving your ADC to fend for himself is extremely detrimental to that player's ability to have any kind of impact on the game and as such the chances of winning the game are heavily decreased. There is a difference between playing trundle support with proper summoners and staying in lane to help your ADC most of the time and what was proposed as "theory crafting" gameplay as described above by this player.

Yea, no, Bard leaves his ADC to fend for themselves frequently, but that's by champ design. Only that's somewhat meta.

Cheese should be embraced, but it should not happen at the expense of other players. It's fine to do this strat as a solo laner because you are gambling yourself and yourself alone. Sure, it will lead to a loss if it fails, but if you tried your best to win your own lane, it's fine. A bad game, if you will. If you are doing this as a support, you directly punish a teammate who plays in your lane. When you queue for support, you should realize that your job is different from others: you don't farm minions or jungle camps. The reason Riot gave support better gold income than other MOBA games like DoTA is so that you can sacrifice farm for your carry, die for your carry, and still make an impact in a game. This cheese goes against the definition of a support. It's a situation where you set up a player to be in a lose-lose situation. If that doesn't fit the style, the player should not play support.

That player should learn to adapt.

I'd rather have Trundle smite support than most of the tank supports or sustain supports.

if it was Bard leaving, no one would complain.

Azrsky6 votes

A good bard does not frequently leave his ADC to fend for himself for extended periods. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

Venompaw2 votes

{quoted}

A good bard does not frequently leave his ADC to fend for himself for extended periods. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

but a bad one does. And a bad Bard wouldn't be banned for it.

Azrsky8 votes

A bad bard who leaves his ADC for extended periods would receive the same discontent from his team and ADC. On top of that, you are comparing a character who has a mini quest that requires him to leave lane at certain small windows of time. Trundle has nothing of the sort. The two scenarios are completely different. The two champions are completely different. I'm sorry but you're trying to prove a point that is not disputable.

Ph03n1xdust2 votes

Trundle with smite has a "mini quest" to fck up the enemy jungler and possibly take dragon with the help of jungler or whatever. Since none of his smite targets are on lane, he is supposed to leave lane more often than a "regular support".

ChompyWulf2 votes

Except Bard was designed to have that mini quest and also a great mobility tool to rush back to lane and a sustain tool that let's him drop off a heal pod for an adc to pick up and stay safe if bullied while Bard roamed. Bard also has an Ult that can allow surprise hard CC from a good range to ambush on the way back, he is capable of roaming and making it OK to do so.

Trundle doesn't even have any tools to support in lane. No hard CC, just a melee range slow. No buffs to share. No shields or heals to share. No skills for an initiation. Not even range skills that can create zone denial. He ticks no boxes for a support. He could be a confusing counter to a tank initiator support such as Thresh or Alistair, but it sounds like he's not even considering lane matchups and taking Trundle whenever.

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

Okay, so he got banned for picking the "wrong" champion for this role? (As you said, he doesnt have the necessary abilities to do this.) It feels like for me, that you want to push a meta an him, which Rito multiple times stated should not be the case. He picked the wrong champion for the wrong role (OFF META) and he got punished, while soraka top is not punished. I'm wondering where is the consistency in this.

ChompyWulf2 votes

Soraka top isn't the same as Trundle support for several reasons.

The role of Top lane in meta changes a lot. Mages, tanks, juggernauts, fighters, they have all be used top lane because it's a location.

Support is a role. If he worked with team to actually support someone and the bot player adjusted to prepare to withstand siege, OK. Taking Trundle with your only goal using Smite to steal/secure buffs is literally doubling down on the jungle role and not supportive. IF he worked with team and both junglers wrecked havoc across map and caught enemy off guard, great. He apparently just would roam and did nothing to support anyone, using his champ selection as an excuse for not staying in bot lane because he picked off meta.

That's not punishment for playing off meta, that's punishment for handicapping your team. That's basically assisting the enemy team. He's not even being honest about what he was doing, he was trying to passively duo jungle.

Ph03n1xdust2 votes

No, he wasn't trying duo jungle, he built support items.

And no, support is role like top, we have healer support tank supports, mage supports etc, just like on top. So don't come with this.... It's not his bad, that his adc is weak minded and tilts for an off meta sup. So he purely got banned for playing off meta (even the roles are part of the meta)

ChompyWulf2 votes
<Removed by moderation>

Reread his post. Says he'd try to steal enemy jungle buff, then try ganking top or mid with Trundle's Pillar skill. Then he says he usually keeps Smite to have control over Scuttles and Dragons. Literally all of that is jungle. Then again you fail to grasp as I laid out before that top is a position and as the metas shift it's role and champs used can change regularly.

What items he bought don't matter when his play was to avoid support. So when ADCs were buying Relic Shield last year to rush gold to their lane partner purchasing Ardent Censor, were the adcs then supports by your logic? Of course not. It's not the location or the items but how you play that makes one a support.

Azrsky3 votes

The ban had nothing to do with picking the wrong champion. It has to do with the summoner he chose as a support, how he played out the game, and his refusal to cooperate and communicate with his teammates whatever strategy he was looking to attempt.

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