...I honestly gotta say that this game has cultivated, without a doubt, the whiniest, and softest generation of gamers I have ever seen. Honestly, when did you people grow such thin skin? Some one was mean to you? Mute them. Get over it. Grow a pair.
ModPrandine8 votesThe mute button is not a get out of jail free card. If you force someone to have to mute you then you're doing something wrong. From Ulanopo's Knowledge Base:
People who report are simply being oversensitive. The mute button exists for a reason.
Lets start with the Riot quote on this (link (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=30696571#post30696571)):
Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter? Players shouldnt need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player.
Simply put, Riot says no. You can scream and cry all you want, but it is their house and their rules.
With that out of the way, I think the topic deserves some further discussion. The theory is that, if people resolved to care less, then they would be happier. I often refer to this as Argument from Stoicism and I think it is a fairly weak philosophy because it places the burden on the person being expected to endure the behavior rather than the person exhibiting the behavior. You should be able to handle it is just a flimsy excuse for being a bully or a jerk. I have to be the bigger man so that you can do whatever you want? That hardly seems fair.
There is also the issue of how I spend my limited free time. Like most people, I am constantly required to make value judgments between the different forms of entertainment that are available to me and, let's be honest, we live in an age of nearly limitless entertainment options. If I'm having a bad day in League, I can just fire up Steam and play a whole bunch of games that don't require me to put up with someone's BS.
This is not an issue of weakness or thin-skin; it's a question of choosing activities that don't leave me feeling frustrated and angry. Too many of those experiences and I'll just find something else to do. Riot knows this.
Ýisus1 votes"Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter? Players shouldnt need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player."
What about the bad experience for people feeding? When 1 of my teammates feeds, it creates a very negative experience for me.
ModPrandine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ganksta Yisus,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=34cG5YBJ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-12-27T13:50:31.952+0000)
"Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter? Players shouldnt need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player."
What about the bad experience for people feeding? When 1 of my teammates feeds, it creates a very negative experience for me.
Gameplay trolling is also punishable, but it's harder to track due to the system needing to be sure that they're actually trolling intentionally rather than just having a bad game or two. That doesn't mean that they're not punished, but it just takes longer to punish them compared to verbal abuse cases. In case you don't believe me Here are two examples of gameplay trolls being banned. Yes it's just two examples, but it proves that they do get punished.
AeroWaffle7 votesAs a gamer since 1994, I can't say I like how internet anonymity has turned people into thinking that they're entitled to be assholes without consequences.
Kitty Cat Tosha5 votesGaming since 2004 and you still have not learned how to cope with adversity? What games have you been playing?
bad arcade kitty3 votesriot has a very bad moderation policy when their main effort it's to punish those who are negated with /mute instead of aiming to mainly punish inters/afkers/trolls/scripters
i wish they copied dota's policy, it would make the game much better
EvilDustMan3 votesI've been an avid gamer since 1992 and I don't like having loud randos on the internet getting on me for every little mistake I make.
NiamhNyx2 votesI know, I remember back when I played some other online games (Halo, CS) and if someone was being a rude ass hole, all you did was kill them, and if they were better you sucked it up and took the punches. But this is the era of "The Free and Offended Americans!!!"
Ýisus1 votesI know, I remember back when I played some other online games (Halo, CS) and if someone was being a rude ass hole, all you did was kill them, and if they were better you sucked it up and took the punches. But this is the era of "The Free and Offended Americans!!!"
Right lol ... I have never seen such a whinny group either. Just wait till they go get a job and their boss rips them a new asshole. I bet they cry about it to HR ( who doesnt give a shit lol )
Martensitic2 votesAs an avid gamer probably since before you were able to spell the word "Computer" (based on the fact that you started gaming long after I became an adult), I can safely tell you that toxic morons were NEVER accepted in gaming communities.
The only difference is, that there were fewer of us back in the goold old days, and getting rid of idiots was easier, because once they were banned from the clan or blacklisted on the server, there was no appeal/make new account, and since everything was dependent on your handle and street-cred., hiding behind online anonymity wasn't really an option.
Ýisus2 votesAs an avid gamer probably since before you were able to spell the word "Computer" (based on the fact that you started gaming long after I became an adult), I can safely tell you that toxic morons were NEVER accepted in gaming communities.
The only difference is, that there were fewer of us back in the goold old days, and getting rid of idiots was easier, because once they were banned from the clan or blacklisted on the server, there was no appeal/make new account, and since everything was dependent on your handle and street-cred., hiding behind online anonymity wasn't really an option.
Everquest - Had no way to report toxic players - and the GM's specifically said they were not there to moderate to communities interactions unless they violated state or local laws / were hacks.
Halo 2 / 3 - Did not moderate the communities behavior as they were not interested in it.
Call of Duty .... Most Console games do not moderate their communities behavior.
The list goes on and on.
Martensitic1 votesEverquest - Had no way to report toxic players - and the GM's specifically said they were not there to moderate to communities interactions unless they violated state or local laws / were hacks.
There was no need for a GM-based moderation, because the players themselves regulated things.
Morons who couldn't uphold a minimum of social standards were simply kicked from their guilds, and other major guilds were warned about it.
Oh, they could continue to play, in some useless pseudo-guild, but the gameplay that actually mattered, was closed to them.
The same was true in the early days of WoW. If someone behaved toxic, he quickly found himself removed from first the raid-cadre, and then from the guild. And good luck getting back into a guild that mattered/could get anything done once your name was on the blacklists. I should know, because I had the pleasure as raid-off. to put several people on them back on my old server.
Bottom line: In these games where the degree of community interaction was determined by the community itself, rather than a matchmaking algorithm, the community self-governed acceptable behaviour.
Halo 2 / 3 - Did not moderate the communities behavior as they were not interested in it.
And neither game was a big hit outside of console environments, which are despised for their toxicity.
Call of Duty .... Most Console games do not moderate their communities behavior.
And are subsequently toxic as hell, which is why the usual stereotype of the CoD player is a thing.
Ýisus2 votesThere was no need for a GM-based moderation, because the players themselves regulated things.
Morons who couldn't uphold a minimum of social standards were simply kicked from their guilds, and other major guilds were warned about it.
Oh, they could continue to play, in some useless pseudo-guild, but the gameplay that actually mattered, was closed to them.
The same was true in the early days of WoW. If someone behaved toxic, he quickly found himself removed from first the raid-cadre, and then from the guild. And good luck getting back into a guild that mattered/could get anything done once your name was on the blacklists. I should know, because I had the pleasure as raid-off. to put several people on them back on my old server.
Bottom line: In these games where the degree of community interaction was determined by the community itself, rather than a matchmaking algorithm, the community self-governed acceptable behaviour.
And neither game was a big hit outside of console environments, which are despised for their toxicity.
And are subsequently toxic as hell, which is why the usual stereotype of the CoD player is a thing.
Everquest: First of all - Guilds didn't care if you were toxic - they cared if you were a good player, and kept a minimum raid attendance. They would simply ask that you go /anon if you were going to troll / farm steal / kill steal named.
Most guilds in themselves were toxic. If you wiped a raid and wasted 2 hours of everyones time - You were getting cussed out in guild chat and in the vent / team speak server. Not to mention guilds like Diligence / Forged Souls would wipe all of your "DKP" for fucking up ( DKP is what you bought upgrades with ).
Though, I am fine with community regulating - but then Riot should not enforce. Riot is regulating when it enforced.
Halo didn't have a big player base outside of console .... because it was never made for anything but Xbox.... There was never a Halo for PC besides Halo Wars which was never popular for anyone.
Martensitic2 votesEverquest: First of all - Guilds didn't care if you were toxic - they cared if you were a good player, and kept a minimum raid attendance. They would simply ask that you go /anon if you were going to troll / farm steal / kill steal named.
Nonsense, unless the guild in question was cr4p...in which case it was a perfect environment for a toxic player, we used to call such guilds** "garbage bins"**, because they would recruit the people the big boys didn't let into the real guilds any more.
Most guilds in themselves were toxic. If you wiped a raid and wasted 2 hours of everyones time - You were getting cussed out in guild chat and in the vent / team speak server.
Further proof that whatever guilds you are talking about was of above definition. In sizeable raiding guilds from EQ to WoW, even good players would be kicked for being toxic, because the alternative (losing multiple players because they didn't want to be insulted by some 12y old with Ego problems) posed a bigger problem to the guild than losing one good player.
Replacing a decent player is a hassle but usually not that much of a problem, given how firce competition for raidsports was.
Replacing 5 or 6 guys, and having the rest of teh raid on low morale is a big problem.
Not to mention guilds like Diligence / Forged Souls would wipe all of your "DKP" for fucking up ( DKP is what you bought upgrades with ).
Please explain to me what DKP means. I used that term before most league players had internet access :D Wiping some morons DKP for fking up dozens of peoples work is not toxic behaviour. Its a punishment that was employed and if someone didn't like it, he could go fk off.
Ýisus1 votesNonsense, unless the guild in question was cr4p...in which case it was a perfect environment for a toxic player, we used to call such guilds "garbage bins", because they would recruit the people the big boys didn't let into the real guilds any more.
The guild I am referring to is Diligence - They were the #1 guild on the 7th Hammer server for more than a decade. Only falling off when they moved to another game. I was in them for who knows how long. My mains in Everquest still have the "Diligence" guild tag.
As for DKP - It stands for Dragon Kill Points - It is awarded to a raider for spending 1 hour raiding. That "currency" is then spent to purchase raid loot. Most guilds would wipe your DKP for the night / or completely wipe it for making mistakes on a raid. IE what LoL'ers refer to as "having a bad game / bad play" - there was no forgiveness - you either played well and on top of your game, or you were benched and your DKP was wiped for the night. / completely wiped. And that was from the best guild on the 2nd most populated server. Forged Souls also followed a similar policy.
Martensitic1 votesThe guild I am referring to is Diligence
Founded 2002, when Everquest already lost its appeal to the mature players, due to the release of the superior DAoC.
Yes, there were toxic big guilds as well, and if they internally accepted toxicity...fine. The majority didn't, and that proud tradition continued among mature players through all games.
As for DKP - It stands for Dragon Kill Points
My question was sarcastic. I thought that was obvious, but it seems some people literally need this:
Ýisus2 voteswhen Everquest already lost its appeal to the mature players, due to the release of the superior DAoC.
TestValidity(your post here);
sub TestValidity (){ $proofoffered = shift; unless ($proofoffered eq "Actual Proof"){ print "No proof for statement offered.\nStatement ignored.\n"; return 0; } }
:-)
Martensitic1 votesAt least try to use jokes of your own, everything else is just pathetic.
Player numbers were always determined based on official statements, for whatever that is worth.
And even so, the peak in subscriptions to was barely 450.000 in early 2003, after that the game went into the steady decline, while DaoC flourished, and of course in late 2004, WoW took over completely.
All this is easily proven by looking up official numbers. So your attempt at being funny has crashed just like your argument.
Ýisus1 votesYet DAoC never had more users than Everquest....
Martensitic1 votesUnsurprising, because 2 years after it took over, WoW happened.
And from then onwards, there was only one significant player on the market.
GarthBrooksIV1 votesI think many people take pride in the way they play the game and think that they are good and realize they make mistakes.
When other players rub the mistakes in their face, flame in all chat, spam enemy missing, it is just frustrating as hell to them so they respond negatively to the harass from their team.
You're right that people should just mute and focus on enjoying and improving their game, but that mentality isn't always there for many people.
Risk of Fate1 votesAs a gamer who suffered through Super Man 64, I would rather sit through that painful experience again than to hear how bad I am. Let me enjoy playing the thing, if I mess up, okay tell me. If I mess up and you question mark ping my dead body and call me a retard, I'm not going to be happy. If you tell me to kill myself, you obviously have issues yourself as it's a stupid piece of electronic. OMG, you're Diamond!?!? Don't care, you can play this game, I'm going to play Stardew Valley and compare who's having the better time.
bad arcade kitty1 votesyou know, nobody questions that the "toxicity" i.e. verbal abuse should be addressed in some form, but riot simply does it both very tough and very clumsily
permabans and 14 day long bans aren't a common instrument to address it, it's usually the stuff vs those who cheat, actively ruin multiple games or with whom the company in question has some financial disputes (chargebacks, sometimes even fraud etc). it's ridiculous how little permaban is worth in the league comparing to the most of the games. it's a pretty usual case when somebody, after a certain amount of reports against them (and everybody who plays this game is reported) was reached, is chat restricted or banned for stuff like "f yourself" (pretty often said when they were provoked) or even for "typing too much" (c) one rioter answering a guy who didn't type a single insult why he was banned, and then they are permabanned because when their term ended they said somebody that they did a bad move or something like that, were reported again and this time it didn't need a lot of reports to ban and permaban them. it's not something which i invented btw, it's how it happens. i usually suggest people who were banned once to keep full silence for a while when they play again not saying even "hi" to protect themselves. how people try to justify this crap would be beyond me unless i remembered that most of people are sheep, that's on a side note.
so, this system firstly is very tough to a few people who certainly didn't deserve such a severe punishment and is very clumsy because it allows those who are actually "toxic" to insult people for a long time till they get the needed amount of reports to be banned, at least if they avoid the tabooed words (mostly sex and race related ones). speaking of the tabooed words, a few people are banned for quoting insults in their address ("he called me n-----!"), because the bot considers it as them using the same word themselves... very silly, indeed
now, several people did tests that if you keep silent you can ruin hundreds of even ranked matches with inting, afking, trolling and you will not be banned, because the focus of this whole system is the verbal abuse. meantime those, who are annoyed at you and bm you for trolling, can be banned if you report them. it is completely unacceptable. it should be vice versa, those who troll the games should be banned and the proper punishment for verbal abuse it should be chat restrictions, maybe even permanent chat restrictions, but not bans, the more so permabans.
do you realize that you can be way more free in what you can say when you are talking on this forum than when you are talking in the game? we can call each other names here, the more so we can call each other bad players etc, without any risk to lose our account, and usually without any risk to even get our posts deleted, meantime speaking in the game we are at risk to be banned for saying the very same stuff. it's weird and very wrong, the in-game chat punishments should be similar to the forum ones i.e. it should be chat restrictions with limited pings per minute and stuff
EvilDustMan2 votes[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=34cG5YBJ,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-12-27T13:50:49.125+0000)
you know, nobody questions that the "toxicity" i.e. verbal abuse should be addressed in some form, but riot simply does it both very tough and very clumsily
permabans and 14 day long bans aren't a common instrument to address it, it's usually the stuff vs those who cheat, actively ruin multiple games or with whom the company in question has some financial disputes (chargebacks, sometimes even fraud etc). it's ridiculous how little permaban is worth in the league comparing to the most of the games. it's a pretty usual case when somebody, after a certain amount of reports against them (and everybody who plays this game is reported) was reached, is chat restricted or banned for stuff like "f yourself" (pretty often said when they were provoked) or even for "typing too much" (c) one rioter answering a guy who didn't type a single insult why he was banned, and then they are permabanned because when their term ended they said somebody that they did a bad move or something like that, were reported again and this time it didn't need a lot of reports to ban and permaban them. it's not something which i invented btw, it's how it happens. i usually suggest people who were banned once to keep full silence for a while when they play again not saying even "hi" to protect themselves. how people try to justify this crap would be beyond me unless i remembered that most of people are sheep, that's on a side note.
so, this system firstly is very tough to a few people who certainly didn't deserve such a severe punishment and is very clumsy because it allows those who are actually "toxic" to insult people for a long time till they get the needed amount of reports to be banned, at least if they avoid the tabooed words (mostly sex and race related ones). speaking of the tabooed words, a few people are banned for quoting insults in their address ("he called me n-----!"), because the bot considers it as them using the same word themselves... very silly, indeed
now, several people did tests that if you keep silent you can ruin hundreds of even ranked matches with inting, afking, trolling and you will not be banned, because the focus of this whole system is the verbal abuse. meantime those, who are annoyed at you and bm you for trolling, can be banned if you report them. it is completely unacceptable. it should be vice versa, those who troll the games should be banned and the proper punishment for verbal abuse it should be chat restrictions, maybe even permanent chat restrictions, but not bans, the more so permabans.
do you realize that you can be way more free in what you can say when you are talking on this forum than when you are talking in the game? we can call each other names here, the more so we can call each other bad players etc, without any risk to lose our account, and usually without any risk to even get our posts deleted, meantime speaking in the game we are at risk to be banned for saying the very same stuff. it's weird and very wrong, the in-game chat punishments should be similar to the forum ones i.e. it should be chat restrictions with limited pings per minute and stuff
Citation needed on that 'typing too much' Rioter quote.
bad arcade kitty1 votesCitation needed on that 'typing too much' Rioter quote.
i especially like this line
I recognize that your chat logs were not particularly offensive, you do appear to be focusing on typing rather than playing and bringing drama to all chat. It's often best to focus only on what you can control: your gameplay and your reactions to others.
note, it is how that rioter justifies a two week ban to a guy who simply tried to persuade a troll to play
he also adds then that the next "disciplinary action" will be permanent
EvilDustMan2 votes[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=34cG5YBJ,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2016-12-27T14:08:20.946+0000)
i especially like this line
note, it is how that rioter justifies a two week ban to a guy who simply tried to persuade a troll to play
he also adds then that the next "disciplinary action" will be permanent
Thank you. As I suspected, the context mattered, as focusing on typing to spread drama to all chat and stir the shit pot is a pretty reasonable punishment. You are the one taking one aspect and bringing it out of context. Trying to stir the shit pot.
bad arcade kitty1 votesThank you. As I suspected, the context mattered, as focusing on typing to spread drama to all chat and stir the shit pot is a pretty reasonable punishment. You are the one taking one aspect and bringing it out of context. Trying to stir the shit pot.
as i thought you would justify everything what a rioter did
that guy typed to persuade a troll to play, not to "spread the drama"
riot has a policy to never (or at least almost never) lift their temporary bans even if they were wrong (actually it's a pretty common policy)
the rioter simply invented a bs explaination like don't type kid, focus on your game, it justifies your 14 day ban and permaban on the next offence that you tried to persuade another guy to play without insulting him
